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On Wed, 12 Oct 2016 10:13:05 +0100, Robin wrote:

On 12/10/2016 02:45, Recliner wrote:
Offramp wrote:
On Tuesday, 11 October 2016 17:03:14 UTC+1, Recliner wrote:
Offramp wrote:
It looks like the garden bridge is going to wither and die. That
£45,000,000 worth of prime compost will have to be sent to the EU.

More on the Garden Bridge. It seems Cameron was the ultimate backer:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-37616161

An opponent of the Garden Bridge said how the amount of money spent on it
so far is the equivalent of TWO Millennium (Wobbly) bridges!


Yes, I think that's right. Now, whether it gets built or not, it will be a
model of how *not* to do public sector procurements.


I suggest it will be more a model of how not to let "national treasures"
drive policies. Joanna Lumley stitched up Ministers so thoroughly over
letting gurkhas come to the UK[1] that I don't blame them from heading
for the bunkers when she backed another vanity project.

There are times I ponder the Treasury having power to task 00 agents ;)


[1] Something the military and civil service had grave reservations
about all along because - as we have seen - the law of unintended
consequences has a wide reach.

I think the law of unintended consequences also applies with the
Gurkhas:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...s-2330107.html

Also, now that Gurkhas earn the same pay as UK recruits, there's less
of an economic case to keep recruiting them in the British Army. Now,
the army plans to recruit little more than 200 Gurkhas per year.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/224...-cuts-continue

“The Gurkhas have been at risk for a long time and, arguably, one of
the main reasons why they have survived for so long is because they
were cheap – the cost of a Gurkha brigade was half that of a British
brigade.

“Inevitably, after Joanna Lumley spearheaded what some consider an
ill-advised campaign to win Gurkhas equal pay and pensions, the Gurkha
Brigade has now been presented as a target.”

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"Offramp" wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, 11 October 2016 17:03:14 UTC+1, Recliner wrote:
Offramp wrote:
It looks like the garden bridge is going to wither and die. That
£45,000,000 worth of prime compost will have to be sent to the EU.

More on the Garden Bridge. It seems Cameron was the ultimate backer:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-37616161

An opponent of the Garden Bridge said how the amount of money spent on it
so far is the equivalent of TWO Millennium (Wobbly) bridges!

I note that the current argument is about the 15 million costs for
cancellation if we don't go ahead.

Who was this moron who signed contracts for (presumably) construction before
the bridge had the go ahead?

tim

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On Wed, 12 Oct 2016 11:32:24 +0100, "tim..."
wrote:


"Offramp" wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, 11 October 2016 17:03:14 UTC+1, Recliner wrote:
Offramp wrote:
It looks like the garden bridge is going to wither and die. That
£45,000,000 worth of prime compost will have to be sent to the EU.

More on the Garden Bridge. It seems Cameron was the ultimate backer:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-37616161

An opponent of the Garden Bridge said how the amount of money spent on it
so far is the equivalent of TWO Millennium (Wobbly) bridges!

I note that the current argument is about the 15 million costs for
cancellation if we don't go ahead.

Who was this moron who signed contracts for (presumably) construction before
the bridge had the go ahead?

Presumably the architects, engineers, designers, gardening experts,
surveyors, accountants, lawyers, PR agents, etc have charged their
normal fees for the work done so far. Lots of costs are incurred on
prospective projects before they get the final go-ahead.

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"Recliner" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 12 Oct 2016 11:32:24 +0100, "tim..."
wrote:


"Offramp" wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, 11 October 2016 17:03:14 UTC+1, Recliner wrote:
Offramp wrote:
It looks like the garden bridge is going to wither and die. That
£45,000,000 worth of prime compost will have to be sent to the EU.

More on the Garden Bridge. It seems Cameron was the ultimate backer:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-37616161

An opponent of the Garden Bridge said how the amount of money spent on
it
so far is the equivalent of TWO Millennium (Wobbly) bridges!

I note that the current argument is about the 15 million costs for
cancellation if we don't go ahead.

Who was this moron who signed contracts for (presumably) construction
before
the bridge had the go ahead?

Presumably the architects, engineers, designers, gardening experts,
surveyors, accountants, lawyers, PR agents, etc have charged their
normal fees for the work done so far.

work done so far isn't cancellation costs

Lots of costs are incurred on
prospective projects before they get the final go-ahead.

These aren't cancellations costs

tim

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If we imagine that there were 45 different types of consultant used on the Chimera Bridge, and each was paid one million pounds, then our quest is at an end.

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On Wed, 12 Oct 2016 12:53:59 +0100, "tim..."
wrote:


"Recliner" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 12 Oct 2016 11:32:24 +0100, "tim..."
wrote:


"Offramp" wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, 11 October 2016 17:03:14 UTC+1, Recliner wrote:
Offramp wrote:
It looks like the garden bridge is going to wither and die. That
£45,000,000 worth of prime compost will have to be sent to the EU.

More on the Garden Bridge. It seems Cameron was the ultimate backer:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-37616161

An opponent of the Garden Bridge said how the amount of money spent on
it
so far is the equivalent of TWO Millennium (Wobbly) bridges!

I note that the current argument is about the 15 million costs for
cancellation if we don't go ahead.

Who was this moron who signed contracts for (presumably) construction
before
the bridge had the go ahead?

Presumably the architects, engineers, designers, gardening experts,
surveyors, accountants, lawyers, PR agents, etc have charged their
normal fees for the work done so far.

work done so far isn't cancellation costs

Lots of costs are incurred on
prospective projects before they get the final go-ahead.

These aren't cancellations costs

They are costs that will have to be written off if the bridge is
cancelled.

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In message , at 12:53:59 on Wed, 12 Oct
2016, tim... remarked:

I note that the current argument is about the 15 million costs for
cancellation if we don't go ahead.

Who was this moron who signed contracts for (presumably) construction
before
the bridge had the go ahead?

Presumably the architects, engineers, designers, gardening experts,
surveyors, accountants, lawyers, PR agents, etc have charged their
normal fees for the work done so far.

work done so far isn't cancellation costs

Lots of costs are incurred on
prospective projects before they get the final go-ahead.

These aren't cancellations costs

The most likely reason for a "cancellation cost" is having signed up
those professionals on a contract were they were given 3-months (or
whatever) notice of the project being stopped. Rather than being told
one day that they had hundreds of redundant staff, previously working on
the project, spare at their office next Monday morning.

Without some sort of orderly exit-strategy, during which to find new
projects for those staff, or even pay *them* a three month severance
amount, they wouldn't have agreed to start the work.
--
Roland Perry

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On Wed, 12 Oct 2016 10:13:05 +0100
Robin wrote:
On 12/10/2016 02:45, Recliner wrote:
Yes, I think that's right. Now, whether it gets built or not, it will be a
model of how *not* to do public sector procurements.


I suggest it will be more a model of how not to let "national treasures"
drive policies. Joanna Lumley stitched up Ministers so thoroughly over
letting gurkhas come to the UK[1] that I don't blame them from heading

I'd love to know who actually thinks she's a national treasure. She's a
competant actress with a posh accent who used to be quite pretty half a century
ago, thats pretty much all there is to her.

With the ghurkas thing the government at the time should have just grown a
pair and made it clear that the gurhkas knew exactly what they were signing
up for when they joined and residency in the uk wasn't on the list.

--
Spud

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Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 12:53:59 on Wed, 12 Oct
2016, tim... remarked:

I note that the current argument is about the 15 million costs for
cancellation if we don't go ahead.

Who was this moron who signed contracts for (presumably) construction
before
the bridge had the go ahead?

Presumably the architects, engineers, designers, gardening experts,
surveyors, accountants, lawyers, PR agents, etc have charged their
normal fees for the work done so far.

work done so far isn't cancellation costs

Lots of costs are incurred on
prospective projects before they get the final go-ahead.

These aren't cancellations costs

The most likely reason for a "cancellation cost" is having signed up
those professionals on a contract were they were given 3-months (or
whatever) notice of the project being stopped. Rather than being told
one day that they had hundreds of redundant staff, previously working on
the project, spare at their office next Monday morning.

Without some sort of orderly exit-strategy, during which to find new
projects for those staff, or even pay *them* a three month severance
amount, they wouldn't have agreed to start the work.

Yes, they'd all be on retainers. Plus some services would be billed in
retrospect, and so the bills for those would be payable when the project's
cancelled.

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"Recliner" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 12 Oct 2016 12:53:59 +0100, "tim..."
wrote:


"Recliner" wrote in message
. ..
On Wed, 12 Oct 2016 11:32:24 +0100, "tim..."
wrote:


"Offramp" wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, 11 October 2016 17:03:14 UTC+1, Recliner wrote:
Offramp wrote:
It looks like the garden bridge is going to wither and die. That
£45,000,000 worth of prime compost will have to be sent to the EU.

More on the Garden Bridge. It seems Cameron was the ultimate backer:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-37616161

An opponent of the Garden Bridge said how the amount of money spent on
it
so far is the equivalent of TWO Millennium (Wobbly) bridges!

I note that the current argument is about the 15 million costs for
cancellation if we don't go ahead.

Who was this moron who signed contracts for (presumably) construction
before
the bridge had the go ahead?

Presumably the architects, engineers, designers, gardening experts,
surveyors, accountants, lawyers, PR agents, etc have charged their
normal fees for the work done so far.

work done so far isn't cancellation costs

Lots of costs are incurred on
prospective projects before they get the final go-ahead.

These aren't cancellations costs

They are costs that will have to be written off if the bridge is
cancelled.

Obviously, but they are sunk costs

It was clear from the item on NN that the government dept in question are
seeing these differently (one of the arguments for agreeing to increase
their exposure to cancellations costs was the size of the already sunk costs
that would be put at risk)

tim