"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 21:06:43 on Tue, 8 Nov
2016, Michael R N Dolbear remarked:

since Norway and Switzerland have rejected political union, a similar
mini-Brexit to retain zero tariffs, freedom of business establishment, and
free movement of labour just like them would be acceptable.

On one hand they don't have all the free tariffs, on the other hand they
have to comply with European Directives without having had a say in their
drafting.

Yep,

I really don't see what the advantages (over the option of full membership)
from the Norway/Switzerland option are. For Norway, it gives them control
of their fisheries, which I guess, given the relative minuteness of their
whole economy, makes the crucial difference. But what does CH get from
their "non-membership"?

OTOH, I can see some advantages from remaining in the Customs Union (whilst
leaving the single market). Whilst it does still require us to follow EU
rules and places limits on opportunities to make our own trade deals (lest
these deals should enable other countries to get into the EU via a back
door), it does at least, not come with the requirement of free movement

tim

"Graeme Wall" wrote in message
...
On 09/11/2016 08:17, tim... wrote:

"Graeme Wall" wrote in message
...
On 07/11/2016 13:35, tim... wrote:

"Graeme Wall" wrote in message
...
On 07/11/2016 12:14, tim... wrote:

"Recliner" wrote in message
...



Recliner wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message
-septe



mber.org, at 17:10:41 on Sat, 5 Nov 2016, Recliner
remarked:

But his chances of becoming an MP are low (Labour only had 12.3%
of the vote last time)

"Slim to none" is a more realistic description.

However, prospective MPs have to "earn their wings" contesting
impossible seats, before being offered a safe seat some years
later.

Yes, and by standing, he'll split the pro-Remain vote, thus pretty
much
guaranteeing that Zac keeps his seat; otherwise the LDs might have
had a
chance of winning the seat back.


I see Wolmar has had to start his campaign by defending the decision
not to
back the LD candidate instead. He skates around why it's better to
let
Goldsmith win:
"Why would we deliberately opt out of a three-week high profile
campaign
which gives us an opportunity to demonstrate our renewed unity
[Huh?] and
our distinctive ideas?"

http://labourlist.org/2016/11/richmo...-and-lib-dems/




But once he's lost, he has to go back to earning his living as a
supposedly
impartial railway journalist and author, which won't be helped by
phrases
like, "people should be turning their backs on this vicious and
nasty
government".

I really do hate the way that lefties bandy about personal abuse just
because they disagree with someone's political position.

Look, it's fairly simple here. The Tory party aren't (despite your
claims otherwise) making these choices (to cut spending) that they
make
because they are pre-disposed to be "nasty" people. They are making
them because they *genuinely* believe that, for the economic good
of the
country, it's the right thing to do - and in the current state of the
country's finances doing what's right for the economy trumps doing
what
is socially the right thing to do.


So why are they desperately pushing ahead with Brexit despite it being

because it's what the people voted for


But you've just said that the economy trumps that.

no I didn't

I said that in the case of government spending, getting the Economy
right trumps doing the "right thing" on Welfare.

about the worst possible thing you could do for the economy.

There are many arguments that that isn't the case in the longer term.
That is exactly the reason why some of us voted to leave.

Are there?

Many believe that there are

it will take 20 years to find out :-)

Just because it is bad for you (and your like) doesn't make it bad for
everyone.



And just what is my like?

If the economy gets shafted it won't be just me that is affected.

But the argument is that the end result of leaving wont shaft the Economy

It already has and we haven't left yet.

I see that you snipped the bit where I explained that that is not caused by
the actual act of leaving but by the Remoaners not accepting the situation,
rather than their knuckling down and doing what is "best" for the UK under
the circumstances. (They will, no doubt, argue that they are, I will argue
that they aren't - they are trying to fight a war that, I believe they
cannot win and making Britain worse off whilst they fight it.)

FTAOD, I fully expected that such Remoaning would happen and that it would
affect the economy badly (and if I tried hard enough I could find you a post
that I made before the referendum that sad as much.)

tim

In message , at 08:43:39 on Wed, 9 Nov 2016,
tim... remarked:

I really don't see what the advantages (over the option of full
membership) from the Norway/Switzerland option are.

Nor, with hindsight, do the Norwegians.

http://brexitcentral.com/morten-harp...discourage-uk-
pursuing-norway-option/

"The main headache of the EEA, however, is the lack of
democracy. Even our Prime Minister, Erna Solberg, sounded a
warning about this before the UK referendum, stating that
'you’ll hate it'. She elaborated: 'That type of connection is
going to be difficult for Britain, because then Brussels will
decide without the Brits being able to participate in the
decision-making.'

And guess what the #1 reason for voting to leave was:

"the principle that decisions about the UK should be taken in the UK"

Ooops.

Oh well, look on the bright side, if we do get a Hard Brexit I'm well
versed working with the unelected bureaucrats in Westminster, and
without the calming influence of their colleagues in Brussels I'll get
lots of work opportunities.

--
Roland Perry

On 09/11/2016 08:43, tim... wrote:

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 21:06:43 on Tue, 8
Nov 2016, Michael R N Dolbear remarked:

since Norway and Switzerland have rejected political union, a similar
mini-Brexit to retain zero tariffs, freedom of business
establishment, and free movement of labour just like them would be
acceptable.

On one hand they don't have all the free tariffs, on the other hand
they have to comply with European Directives without having had a say
in their drafting.

Yep,

I really don't see what the advantages (over the option of full
membership) from the Norway/Switzerland option are. For Norway, it
gives them control of their fisheries, which I guess, given the relative
minuteness of their whole economy, makes the crucial difference. But
what does CH get from their "non-membership"?

OTOH, I can see some advantages from remaining in the Customs Union
(whilst leaving the single market). Whilst it does still require us to
follow EU rules and places limits on opportunities to make our own trade
deals (lest these deals should enable other countries to get into the EU
via a back door), it does at least, not come with the requirement of
free movement


And the problem with free movement is?


--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On 09/11/2016 09:16, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 08:43:39 on Wed, 9 Nov 2016,
tim... remarked:

I really don't see what the advantages (over the option of full
membership) from the Norway/Switzerland option are.

Nor, with hindsight, do the Norwegians.

http://brexitcentral.com/morten-harp...discourage-uk-
pursuing-norway-option/

"The main headache of the EEA, however, is the lack of
democracy. Even our Prime Minister, Erna Solberg, sounded a
warning about this before the UK referendum, stating that
'you’ll hate it'. She elaborated: 'That type of connection is
going to be difficult for Britain, because then Brussels will
decide without the Brits being able to participate in the
decision-making.'

And guess what the #1 reason for voting to leave was:

"the principle that decisions about the UK should be taken in the UK"

Ooops.

Oh well, look on the bright side, if we do get a Hard Brexit I'm well
versed working with the unelected bureaucrats in Westminster, and
without the calming influence of their colleagues in Brussels I'll get
lots of work opportunities.


Ill winds and all that :-)

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 08:43:39 on Wed, 9 Nov 2016,
tim... remarked:

I really don't see what the advantages (over the option of full
membership) from the Norway/Switzerland option are.

Nor, with hindsight, do the Norwegians.

http://brexitcentral.com/morten-harp...discourage-uk-
pursuing-norway-option/

"The main headache of the EEA, however, is the lack of
democracy. Even our Prime Minister, Erna Solberg, sounded a
warning about this before the UK referendum, stating that
'you’ll hate it'. She elaborated: 'That type of connection is
going to be difficult for Britain, because then Brussels will
decide without the Brits being able to participate in the
decision-making.'

And guess what the #1 reason for voting to leave was:

"the principle that decisions about the UK should be taken in the UK"

Ooops.

Oh well, look on the bright side, if we do get a Hard Brexit I'm well
versed working with the unelected bureaucrats in Westminster, and
without the calming influence of their colleagues in Brussels I'll get
lots of work opportunities.

wont you have retired by the time it makes any difference

tim

"Graeme Wall" wrote in message
...
On 09/11/2016 08:43, tim... wrote:

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 21:06:43 on Tue, 8
Nov 2016, Michael R N Dolbear remarked:

since Norway and Switzerland have rejected political union, a similar
mini-Brexit to retain zero tariffs, freedom of business
establishment, and free movement of labour just like them would be
acceptable.

On one hand they don't have all the free tariffs, on the other hand
they have to comply with European Directives without having had a say
in their drafting.

Yep,

I really don't see what the advantages (over the option of full
membership) from the Norway/Switzerland option are. For Norway, it
gives them control of their fisheries, which I guess, given the relative
minuteness of their whole economy, makes the crucial difference. But
what does CH get from their "non-membership"?

OTOH, I can see some advantages from remaining in the Customs Union
(whilst leaving the single market). Whilst it does still require us to
follow EU rules and places limits on opportunities to make our own trade
deals (lest these deals should enable other countries to get into the EU
via a back door), it does at least, not come with the requirement of
free movement


And the problem with free movement is?

Loads of low paid workers coming in from the East forcing down wages for the
indigenous population (and allowing companies to disband their staff
training schemes which would otherwise help increase the averages skill set
of the population)

tim

wrote in message
news
On Wed, 9 Nov 2016 08:52:13 -0000, "tim..."
wrote:



I see that you snipped the bit where I explained that that is not caused
by
the actual act of leaving but by the Remoaners not accepting the
situation,
rather than their knuckling down and doing what is "best" for the UK under
the circumstances. (They will, no doubt, argue that they are, I will
argue
that they aren't - they are trying to fight a war that, I believe they
cannot win and making Britain worse off whilst they fight it.)

Using Language like" knuckling down" does appear to be an example of
the arrogance of many on the leave side.
One of their points for leaving was that they do not like too much
control yet from others but when it comes down to it what they really
mean is "we want to do the controlling" and " what is best for the UK
" means you will do what I want as I know better and am better than
you " which is a rather patronising or even conceited attitude.

what a load of old ********

tim

In message , at 11:38:53 on Wed, 9 Nov 2016,
tim... remarked:

Oh well, look on the bright side, if we do get a Hard Brexit I'm well
versed working with the unelected bureaucrats in Westminster, and
without the calming influence of their colleagues in Brussels I'll get
lots of work opportunities.

wont you have retired by the time it makes any difference

Arguably the work has already begun. There's the whole Brexit process
itself, and God willing I'd expect to be working until at least 2023.
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 11:41:26 on Wed, 9 Nov 2016,
tim... remarked:
Loads of low paid workers coming in from the East forcing down wages
for the indigenous population (and allowing companies to disband their
staff training schemes which would otherwise help increase the averages
skill set of the population)

What trainable skills do you need to pick vegetables in the fields?

How to wrap up warm, perhaps.
--
Roland Perry