On Fri, 25 Nov 2016 12:44:00 +0000
Recliner wrote:
On Fri, 25 Nov 2016 10:47:25 +0000 (UTC), d wrote:

On Fri, 25 Nov 2016 10:37:10 +0000
Basil Jet wrote:
On 2016\11\25 09:48, Recliner wrote:
If it really is as they say, then this level of failure is much more than
could be explained by wheel flats alone, though that may still be a
contributing factor. But I can't find any news reports about a major
technical problem.


If I counted correctly (unlikely) http://traintimes.org.uk/map/tube/
suggests that there are 35 Picc trains at the moment. The normal number
would be 68 to 78.

Over on District Daves forum they're saying its due to wheel flats from
leaves too. But I don't remember a time half of a lines stock all got serious
wheel flats at the same time and all had to be taken out of service. At the
very least, surely they could form up some 3 car units of servicable cars?
Would be better than nothing.

Yes, looking at that forum, it seems that the problem is down to not
enough RATs, plus, perhaps, poor driving technique.

Unless they've got in a whole new batch of drivers this year I doubt its the
latter. And its not as if autumn leaves are a new occurance. The only thing
that makes sense is if they didn't send a RAT around as much as other years
because some of them are out of service and haven't been fixed in a foolhardy
effort to save a few quid. That turned out well.

I assume the 73TS doesn't have its own sanding gear?

Beats me, but I doubt it.

--
Spud

On 2016\11\25 15:16, d wrote:
On Fri, 25 Nov 2016 12:44:00 +0000
Recliner wrote:
On Fri, 25 Nov 2016 10:47:25 +0000 (UTC), d wrote:

On Fri, 25 Nov 2016 10:37:10 +0000
Basil Jet wrote:
On 2016\11\25 09:48, Recliner wrote:
If it really is as they say, then this level of failure is much more than
could be explained by wheel flats alone, though that may still be a
contributing factor. But I can't find any news reports about a major
technical problem.


If I counted correctly (unlikely) http://traintimes.org.uk/map/tube/
suggests that there are 35 Picc trains at the moment. The normal number
would be 68 to 78.

Over on District Daves forum they're saying its due to wheel flats from
leaves too. But I don't remember a time half of a lines stock all got serious
wheel flats at the same time and all had to be taken out of service. At the
very least, surely they could form up some 3 car units of servicable cars?
Would be better than nothing.

Yes, looking at that forum, it seems that the problem is down to not
enough RATs, plus, perhaps, poor driving technique.

Unless they've got in a whole new batch of drivers this year I doubt its the
latter. And its not as if autumn leaves are a new occurance. The only thing
that makes sense is if they didn't send a RAT around as much as other years
because some of them are out of service and haven't been fixed in a foolhardy
effort to save a few quid. That turned out well.

I assume the 73TS doesn't have its own sanding gear?

Beats me, but I doubt it.

The only thing I can think of is that various work is being done on
various bits of track across the network to make them more silent for
night time operation. While you might expect that to reduce wheel wear
rather than increase it, perhaps there are unintended consequences for
the 1973 stock. (Clutching at straws here.)

On 2016\11\25 16:01, Basil Jet wrote:
On 2016\11\25 15:16, d wrote:
On Fri, 25 Nov 2016 12:44:00 +0000
Recliner wrote:
On Fri, 25 Nov 2016 10:47:25 +0000 (UTC), d wrote:

On Fri, 25 Nov 2016 10:37:10 +0000
Basil Jet wrote:
On 2016\11\25 09:48, Recliner wrote:
If it really is as they say, then this level of failure is much
more than
could be explained by wheel flats alone, though that may still be a
contributing factor. But I can't find any news reports about a major
technical problem.


If I counted correctly (unlikely) http://traintimes.org.uk/map/tube/
suggests that there are 35 Picc trains at the moment. The normal
number
would be 68 to 78.

Over on District Daves forum they're saying its due to wheel flats from
leaves too. But I don't remember a time half of a lines stock all
got serious
wheel flats at the same time and all had to be taken out of service.
At the
very least, surely they could form up some 3 car units of servicable
cars?
Would be better than nothing.

Yes, looking at that forum, it seems that the problem is down to not
enough RATs, plus, perhaps, poor driving technique.

Unless they've got in a whole new batch of drivers this year I doubt
its the
latter. And its not as if autumn leaves are a new occurance. The only
thing
that makes sense is if they didn't send a RAT around as much as other
years
because some of them are out of service and haven't been fixed in a
foolhardy
effort to save a few quid. That turned out well.

I assume the 73TS doesn't have its own sanding gear?

Beats me, but I doubt it.

The only thing I can think of is that various work is being done on
various bits of track across the network to make them more silent for
night time operation. While you might expect that to reduce wheel wear
rather than increase it, perhaps there are unintended consequences for
the 1973 stock. (Clutching at straws here.)

Oh, and there are loads of new drivers for the night shift.

On Fri, 25 Nov 2016 16:02:11 +0000
Basil Jet wrote:
On 2016\11\25 16:01, Basil Jet wrote:
On 2016\11\25 15:16, d wrote:
The only thing I can think of is that various work is being done on
various bits of track across the network to make them more silent for
night time operation. While you might expect that to reduce wheel wear
rather than increase it, perhaps there are unintended consequences for
the 1973 stock. (Clutching at straws here.)

Certainly an idea.

Oh, and there are loads of new drivers for the night shift.

They can't all be crap enough to put this many trains out of service though

--
Spud

Basil Jet wrote:
On 2016\11\25 15:16, d wrote:
On Fri, 25 Nov 2016 12:44:00 +0000
Recliner wrote:
On Fri, 25 Nov 2016 10:47:25 +0000 (UTC), d wrote:

On Fri, 25 Nov 2016 10:37:10 +0000
Basil Jet wrote:
On 2016\11\25 09:48, Recliner wrote:
If it really is as they say, then this level of failure is much more than
could be explained by wheel flats alone, though that may still be a
contributing factor. But I can't find any news reports about a major
technical problem.


If I counted correctly (unlikely) http://traintimes.org.uk/map/tube/
suggests that there are 35 Picc trains at the moment. The normal number
would be 68 to 78.

Over on District Daves forum they're saying its due to wheel flats from
leaves too. But I don't remember a time half of a lines stock all got serious
wheel flats at the same time and all had to be taken out of service. At the
very least, surely they could form up some 3 car units of servicable cars?
Would be better than nothing.

Yes, looking at that forum, it seems that the problem is down to not
enough RATs, plus, perhaps, poor driving technique.

Unless they've got in a whole new batch of drivers this year I doubt its the
latter. And its not as if autumn leaves are a new occurance. The only thing
that makes sense is if they didn't send a RAT around as much as other years
because some of them are out of service and haven't been fixed in a foolhardy
effort to save a few quid. That turned out well.

I assume the 73TS doesn't have its own sanding gear?

Beats me, but I doubt it.

The only thing I can think of is that various work is being done on
various bits of track across the network to make them more silent for
night time operation. While you might expect that to reduce wheel wear
rather than increase it, perhaps there are unintended consequences for
the 1973 stock. (Clutching at straws here.)


I doubt that track improvements could have caused it.

Meanwhile, there's now a formal statement:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CyHXpBUW...jpg&name=large

On 25/11/2016 10:47, d wrote:
At the
very least, surely they could form up some 3 car units of servicable cars?
Would be better than nothing.

Half-length trains would raise issues with people standing at the wrong
place on the platform. If platforms are already busy because of the
reduced service, having people rush along it when the train doesn't stop
in front of them increases the risk of someone falling on to the track.

Clive D.W. Feather wrote:
On 25/11/2016 10:47, d wrote:
At the
very least, surely they could form up some 3 car units of servicable cars?
Would be better than nothing.

Half-length trains would raise issues with people standing at the wrong
place on the platform. If platforms are already busy because of the
reduced service, having people rush along it when the train doesn't stop
in front of them increases the risk of someone falling on to the track.

Yes, it would probably be unsafe.

In addition, I wonder if the double-ended 73 half sets are even capable of
running separately any more. For example, are the inner cabs still
functional? It's 22 years since they last ran in public service as half
sets, to Aldwych, and I don't think they've ever run as half sets on the
main line.

Basil Jet wrote:
On 2016\11\25 09:48, Recliner wrote:
wrote:
On Fri, 25 Nov 2016 08:34:08 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
wrote:
Given the service level of the piccadilly line on the uxbridge branch when I
occasionally used it while working in ealing a few years back, I suspect
most
leaves on the line have a fairly undisturbed quiet life.

Well, that's certainly true today -- this is what was tweeted this morning:
"Due to shortage of serviceable trains there will be no service between
Acton Town and Uxbridge."

And from the web site:
"Piccadilly Line: No service between Acton Town and Uxbridge due to a
shortage of trains. SEVERE DELAYS on the rest of the line. Customers
travelling to stations between Rayners Lane and Uxbridge should use
Metropolitan line services. London Underground tickets will be accepted on
Chiltern Railways, Great Western, Southern, London Overground, London
Midland and local bus services via any reasonable route."

It certainly wasn't great this morning.

The situation doesn't seem to have improved, with the Rayner's Lane branch
still suspended, and severe delays on the remaining services. So perhaps
half the fleet has been withdrawn.

That's a reduction of at least 40% of the service (depending on how much
the Heathrow branch service has been reduced). The train situation must be
dire if they can't even run a limited shuttle service between Acton Town
and Rayner's Lane.

I would say that they'd found some serious fault in the trains and are keeping
it quiet while fixing them, but OTOH the unions would have a field day if that
was the case and we've heard nowt from them. Very odd.

Unless, of course, it's union action that's causing the problem? Is there
some dispute with the maintenance staff? Or are the drivers working to
rule about not taking out trains with even tiny, irrelevant defects?

If it really is as they say, then this level of failure is much more than
could be explained by wheel flats alone, though that may still be a
contributing factor. But I can't find any news reports about a major
technical problem.


If I counted correctly (unlikely) http://traintimes.org.uk/map/tube/
suggests that there are 35 Picc trains at the moment. The normal number
would be 68 to 78.


The wheel lathe must have been busy, as they've now added an infrequent
shuttle service to Rayner's Lane:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CyU5xoAW...jpg&name=large

On Sun, 27 Nov 2016 23:15:51 +0000
"Clive D.W. Feather" wrote:
On 25/11/2016 10:47, d wrote:
At the
very least, surely they could form up some 3 car units of servicable cars?
Would be better than nothing.

Half-length trains would raise issues with people standing at the wrong
place on the platform. If platforms are already busy because of the
reduced service, having people rush along it when the train doesn't stop
in front of them increases the risk of someone falling on to the track.

Odd we don't hear of mass casualties on the mainline network then when they
run short trains to crowded stations. Plus some lines on the tube used to do
it in the past IIRC.

--
Spud

On Mon, 28 Nov 2016 09:02:57 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
Basil Jet wrote:
If I counted correctly (unlikely) http://traintimes.org.uk/map/tube/
suggests that there are 35 Picc trains at the moment. The normal number
would be 68 to 78.


The wheel lathe must have been busy, as they've now added an infrequent
shuttle service to Rayner's Lane:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CyU5xoAW...jpg&name=large

Normal service is resumed then.

--
Spud