London trip report.
Roads are transport too, so I thought I'd share my experience from last
Friday. Taking my car to be serviced somewhere in Leyton, the biggest driving hazard by far was London Buses who bulldoze their way through oncoming traffic when (as is commonplace) their side of the road covered in double yellows etc is blocked by delivery drivers/courier vans. And despite widespread 20mph limits, I didn't get the impression buses thought they had to comply. In other news, took my first ride on a TfL Rail train into Liverpool St, and was dismayed by a "no alcohol" policy. And there weren't even any football supporters on the train. Welcome to 1920's USA. -- Roland Perry |
London trip report.
Roland Perry wrote:
Roads are transport too, so I thought I'd share my experience from last Friday. Taking my car to be serviced somewhere in Leyton, the biggest driving hazard by far was London Buses who bulldoze their way through oncoming traffic when (as is commonplace) their side of the road covered in double yellows etc is blocked by delivery drivers/courier vans. And despite widespread 20mph limits, I didn't get the impression buses thought they had to comply. Yup, I think the bus drivers are well aware of the locations of speed cameras, and in their absence, ignore 20mph limits. In other news, took my first ride on a TfL Rail train into Liverpool St, and was dismayed by a "no alcohol" policy. And there weren't even any football supporters on the train. Welcome to 1920's USA. All TfL trains and buses have had no a no-alcohol policy for almost a decade. |
London trip report.
In message
-sept ember.org, at 16:07:51 on Mon, 17 Jul 2017, Recliner remarked: In other news, took my first ride on a TfL Rail train into Liverpool St, and was dismayed by a "no alcohol" policy. And there weren't even any football supporters on the train. Welcome to 1920's USA. All TfL trains and buses have had no a no-alcohol policy for almost a decade. Not something which makes any sense out in the wilds of Essex in the daytime. -- Roland Perry |
London trip report.
"Roland Perry" wrote in message ... In message -sept ember.org, at 16:07:51 on Mon, 17 Jul 2017, Recliner remarked: In other news, took my first ride on a TfL Rail train into Liverpool St, and was dismayed by a "no alcohol" policy. And there weren't even any football supporters on the train. Welcome to 1920's USA. All TfL trains and buses have had no a no-alcohol policy for almost a decade. Not something which makes any sense out in the wilds of Essex in the daytime. why not? the mess caused by people discarding drinking containers has to be cleared up wherever you are tim -- Roland Perry |
London trip report.
On 17/07/2017 16:38, Roland Perry wrote:
And despite widespread 20mph limits, I didn't get the impression buses thought they had to comply. All NEW London buses should be fitted with Intelligent Speed Assistance see: http://www.roadsafetygb.org.uk/news/4971.html. (26 April 2016) |
London trip report.
On Mon, 17 Jul 2017 17:55:23 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote: In message -sept ember.org, at 16:07:51 on Mon, 17 Jul 2017, Recliner remarked: In other news, took my first ride on a TfL Rail train into Liverpool St, and was dismayed by a "no alcohol" policy. And there weren't even any football supporters on the train. Welcome to 1920's USA. All TfL trains and buses have had no a no-alcohol policy for almost a decade. Not something which makes any sense out in the wilds of Essex in the daytime. I agree entirely. Punish antisocial behaviour by all means. Not legal activity just in case it leads to an illegal act. But I think that TfL's takeover of ex-BR routes has worse things: the closing of perfectly good tiolets on their Overground class 317s, and the pointless warnings against using interconnecting doors that are used entirely safely on other operators using the same rolling stock. Jeez - after a night out in London I enjoy my can of M&S gin and tonic on the train home. It's not TfL so against no rules, but WTF should I be unable to do this? |
London trip report.
On Mon, 17 Jul 2017 18:42:06 +0100, "tim..."
wrote: "Roland Perry" wrote in message ... In message -sept ember.org, at 16:07:51 on Mon, 17 Jul 2017, Recliner remarked: In other news, took my first ride on a TfL Rail train into Liverpool St, and was dismayed by a "no alcohol" policy. And there weren't even any football supporters on the train. Welcome to 1920's USA. All TfL trains and buses have had no a no-alcohol policy for almost a decade. Not something which makes any sense out in the wilds of Essex in the daytime. why not? the mess caused by people discarding drinking containers has to be cleared up wherever you are I can only imagine you'd been drinking when you posted this. There's no prohibition on food being consumed on TfL. McDonalds and KFC detritus is far more of a problem that any alcohol containers in any train I've ever been on. There are plenty of discarded cans, but they almost always contained soft drinks, not a fine sustaining beverage. There are also plenty of abandoned coffee cups. But I repeat what I've said in in this thread and elsewhere. Punish, and prohibit, behaviour where needed. Acting antisocially - and that includes leaving litter - should be dealt with. Minding your own business doing something that in a small minority of cases could lead to antisocial behaviour should never be proscribed in a free society. |
London trip report.
On Mon, 17 Jul 2017 17:55:23 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote: In message -sept ember.org, at 16:07:51 on Mon, 17 Jul 2017, Recliner remarked: In other news, took my first ride on a TfL Rail train into Liverpool St, and was dismayed by a "no alcohol" policy. And there weren't even any football supporters on the train. Welcome to 1920's USA. All TfL trains and buses have had no a no-alcohol policy for almost a decade. Not something which makes any sense out in the wilds of Essex in the daytime. I think that it's much easier to enforce a simple blanket rule than a more complex, nuanced rule that varies with time, circumstance and location. It was the same with the smoking ban: rather than just ban it underground, it was banned throughout the TfL estate, so you didn't get arguments about whether no smoking signs were visible or whether Earl's Court District line platforms were underground or not. So, yes, the real desire was to ban drinking from, say, city centre trains and buses after 21:00, but it's easier and much simpler to just ban it everywhere, at all times. |
London trip report.
In message , at 14:41:15 on
Tue, 18 Jul 2017, Recliner remarked: the real desire was to ban drinking from, say, city centre trains and buses after 21:00, but it's easier and much simpler to just ban it everywhere, at all times. Such a pitiful excuse for a nationalised railway. I suppose people yearn for this kind of fascist state across the whole network? Corbyn: "I only get to sit on the floor, but at least it's a public sector floor". -- Roland Perry |
London trip report.
On Monday, 17 July 2017 17:11:49 UTC+1, Recliner wrote:
All TfL trains and buses have had no a no-alcohol policy for almost a decade. A policy that is flouted on a daily basis across all modes. I have never seen anyone even attempt to enforce the rule. A ridiculous tokenistic "oh look I've done something" policy from the early days of Bozza's tenure at City Hall. -- Paul C via Google |
London trip report.
Paul Corfield wrote:
On Monday, 17 July 2017 17:11:49 UTC+1, Recliner wrote: All TfL trains and buses have had no a no-alcohol policy for almost a decade. A policy that is flouted on a daily basis across all modes. I have never seen anyone even attempt to enforce the rule. A ridiculous tokenistic "oh look I've done something" policy from the early days of Bozza's tenure at City Hall. I've not seen anyone enforce it, but I've also never seen anyone flout it, either — a real surprise. Perhaps I don't travel in the right areas and times? |
London trip report.
On Mon, 17 Jul 2017 23:58:12 +0100, BirchangerKen
wrote: On Mon, 17 Jul 2017 18:42:06 +0100, "tim..." wrote: "Roland Perry" wrote in message ... In message -sept ember.org, at 16:07:51 on Mon, 17 Jul 2017, Recliner remarked: In other news, took my first ride on a TfL Rail train into Liverpool St, and was dismayed by a "no alcohol" policy. And there weren't even any football supporters on the train. Welcome to 1920's USA. All TfL trains and buses have had no a no-alcohol policy for almost a decade. Not something which makes any sense out in the wilds of Essex in the daytime. why not? the mess caused by people discarding drinking containers has to be cleared up wherever you are I can only imagine you'd been drinking when you posted this. There's no prohibition on food being consumed on TfL. McDonalds and KFC detritus is far more of a problem that any alcohol containers in any train I've ever been on. There are plenty of discarded cans, but they almost always contained soft drinks, not a fine sustaining beverage. There are also plenty of abandoned coffee cups. But I repeat what I've said in in this thread and elsewhere. Punish, and prohibit, behaviour where needed. Acting antisocially - and that includes leaving litter - should be dealt with. Minding your own business doing something that in a small minority of cases could lead to antisocial behaviour should never be proscribed in a free society. Define "anti-social'" behaviour. What was considered such prior the 40's/50's/60's, ain't what it is now. To me, using the f-word in public earshot is totally unacceptable, but try and enforce that 'quaint' idea. |
London trip report.
On Tuesday, 18 July 2017 23:36:16 UTC+1, Recliner wrote:
Paul Corfield wrote: On Monday, 17 July 2017 17:11:49 UTC+1, Recliner wrote: All TfL trains and buses have had no a no-alcohol policy for almost a decade. A policy that is flouted on a daily basis across all modes. I have never seen anyone even attempt to enforce the rule. A ridiculous tokenistic "oh look I've done something" policy from the early days of Bozza's tenure at City Hall. I've not seen anyone enforce it, but I've also never seen anyone flout it, either — a real surprise. Perhaps I don't travel in the right areas and times? I'm with Recliner. In the last few years I haven't seen anyone drinking on public transport. I have seen people drinking energy drinks, and these sometimes come in lager-looking tins. I have seen people vaping on half-empty carriages, but that doesn't bother me. |
London trip report.
In message
-septe mber.org, at 22:32:18 on Tue, 18 Jul 2017, Recliner remarked: All TfL trains and buses have had no a no-alcohol policy for almost a decade. A policy that is flouted on a daily basis across all modes. I have never seen anyone even attempt to enforce the rule. A ridiculous tokenistic "oh look I've done something" policy from the early days of Bozza's tenure at City Hall. I've not seen anyone enforce it, but I've also never seen anyone flout it, either — a real surprise. Perhaps I don't travel in the right areas and times? I remember, back in the day, seeing highly inebriated and obstreperous "street people" late at night hanging around on the Kings Cross Circle Line platforms with cans of drink. -- Roland Perry |
London trip report.
In message , at
22:32:21 on Tue, 18 Jul 2017, Offramp remarked: In the last few years I haven't seen anyone drinking on public transport. Wow. Go look at the inside of an east coast train that's just arrived from Scotland, ignoring the free drinks in First Class, you may well hardly be able to see some of the tables in Standard for the empty tinnies. -- Roland Perry |
London trip report.
On Wednesday, 19 July 2017 09:03:46 UTC+1, Roland Perry wrote:
I remember, back in the day Okay, so this was in the daytime. seeing highly inebriated and obstreperous "street people" late at night I give up! Roland Perry |
London trip report.
On 18/07/2017 00:56, wrote:
In article , (Jim Chisholm) wrote: On 17/07/2017 16:38, Roland Perry wrote: And despite widespread 20mph limits, I didn't get the impression buses thought they had to comply. All NEW London buses should be fitted with Intelligent Speed Assistance see: http://www.roadsafetygb.org.uk/news/4971.html. (26 April 2016) I think Leyton is a bit suburban to have got new buses yet, Jim. Also note this report: http://www.standard.co.uk/news/trans...-a3589666.html |
London trip report.
On Thu, 20 Jul 2017 20:08:45 +0100, Jim Chisholm
wrote: On 18/07/2017 00:56, wrote: In article , (Jim Chisholm) wrote: On 17/07/2017 16:38, Roland Perry wrote: And despite widespread 20mph limits, I didn't get the impression buses thought they had to comply. All NEW London buses should be fitted with Intelligent Speed Assistance see: http://www.roadsafetygb.org.uk/news/4971.html. (26 April 2016) I think Leyton is a bit suburban to have got new buses yet, Jim. Also note this report: http://www.standard.co.uk/news/trans...-a3589666.html Roughly one death per month with over 40 000 000 km driven and 200 000 000 passengers. How does that compare with other modes? Other operators? |
London trip report.
In article ,
(BirchangerKen) wrote: On Thu, 20 Jul 2017 20:08:45 +0100, Jim Chisholm wrote: On 18/07/2017 00:56, wrote: In article , (Jim Chisholm) wrote: On 17/07/2017 16:38, Roland Perry wrote: And despite widespread 20mph limits, I didn't get the impression buses thought they had to comply. All NEW London buses should be fitted with Intelligent Speed Assistance see: http://www.roadsafetygb.org.uk/news/4971.html. (26 April 2016) I think Leyton is a bit suburban to have got new buses yet, Jim. Also note this report: http://www.standard.co.uk/news/trans...s-needed-urgen tly-after-25-london-deaths-in-two-years-transport-report-says-a3589666.html Roughly one death per month with over 40 000 000 km driven and 200 000 000 passengers. How does that compare with other modes? Other operators? Heavy Commercial Vehicles, for example? -- Colin Rosenstiel |
London trip report.
On Tuesday, 18 July 2017 23:36:16 UTC+1, Recliner wrote:
Paul Corfield wrote: On Monday, 17 July 2017 17:11:49 UTC+1, Recliner wrote: All TfL trains and buses have had no a no-alcohol policy for almost a decade. A policy that is flouted on a daily basis across all modes. I have never seen anyone even attempt to enforce the rule. A ridiculous tokenistic "oh look I've done something" policy from the early days of Bozza's tenure at City Hall. I've not seen anyone enforce it, but I've also never seen anyone flout it, either — a real surprise. Perhaps I don't travel in the right areas and times? I've seen building workers swilling lager on the way to work at 0700 in the morning and on the way home. One got on my local bus route about 1630 the other day with an open beer can. Catch a tube into town at around 7 or 8 pm on a Friday or Saturday - people openly swigging gin, vodka, whatever from bottles or filling their "water" bottles with such spirits. Plenty of booze drunk on night buses. I've not used the night tube yet but I can't believe that is immune from people drinking alcohol. People are going to drink if they want to given the lack of enforcement and no obvious sanction or penalty. -- Paul C via Google |
London trip report.
On Tue, 18 Jul 2017 14:41:15 +0100, Recliner
wrote: I think that it's much easier to enforce a simple blanket rule than a more complex, nuanced rule that varies with time, circumstance and location. It was the same with the smoking ban: rather than just ban it underground, it was banned throughout the TfL estate, so you didn't get arguments about whether no smoking signs were visible or whether Earl's Court District line platforms were underground or not. So, yes, the real desire was to ban drinking from, say, city centre trains and buses after 21:00, but it's easier and much simpler to just ban it everywhere, at all times. As far as I'm concerned it was Johnson's attempt to 'do something' in transport, it was very early on in his first term. I didn't see the need then, compared with general litter, feet on seats, window etching (now almost absent) and I don't see it now, but then I don't often use anything beginning with 'N'. Richard. |
London trip report.
On Fri, 21 Jul 2017 10:48:35 +0100, BirchangerKen
wrote: Roughly one death per month with over 40 000 000 km driven and 200 000 000 passengers. How does that compare with other modes? Other operators? I don't suppose all will agree but I find the standard of bus driving in London to be excellent, given the traffic, general public, etc. The customer facing stuff might be better compared with out of London (Oxford, Brighton, most Stagecoach in my experience), but human nature prevails - given what the drivers have to deal with every day - and there are some people out there who manage to keep a smile for everyone. Richard. |
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