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When will the 700s reach moorgate?
I used the moorgate line today. Still no sign of the 700s down there, just
the usual 313s which don't look like they've had any TLC for a long time now. Are the 700s still waiting approval to run down there or do great northern want to use the 700s on just the express routes initiallt? |
When will the 700s reach moorgate?
On Wednesday, 28 March 2018 12:08:38 UTC+1, wrote:
I used the moorgate line today. Still no sign of the 700s down there, just the usual 313s which don't look like they've had any TLC for a long time now. Are the 700s still waiting approval to run down there or do great northern want to use the 700s on just the express routes initiallt? 700s will not run to Moorgate as they are too long and do not have cab doors for tunnel evacuation. GTR ordered a variant called the 717 which will replace the 313s. This are 6 cars long and do have centre cab doors. The first train is under test on the continent. I believe that they are due in service from the Autumn this year once fleet deliveries start and all of the necessary testing has been completed. So not too long before the 313s start to head to the scrap heap. -- Paul C via Google |
When will the 700s reach moorgate?
On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 04:36:25 -0700 (PDT)
Paul Corfield wrote: On Wednesday, 28 March 2018 12:08:38 UTC+1, wrote: I used the moorgate line today. Still no sign of the 700s down there, jus= t the usual 313s which don't look like they've had any TLC for a long time now. Are the 700s still waiting approval to run down there or do great no= rthern want to use the 700s on just the express routes initiallt? 700s will not run to Moorgate as they are too long and do not have cab door= s for tunnel evacuation. GTR ordered a variant called the 717 which will re= place the 313s. This are 6 cars long and do have centre cab doors. The fir= One has to wonder why they didn't just specify centre cab doors for all of them. Do you know if they'll be 2+3 seating like the 313s? |
When will the 700s reach moorgate?
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When will the 700s reach moorgate?
In message , at 14:26:26 on Wed, 28 Mar
2018, remarked: 700s will not run to Moorgate as they are too long and do not have cab door= s for tunnel evacuation. GTR ordered a variant called the 717 which will re= place the 313s. This are 6 cars long and do have centre cab doors. The fir= Do you know if they'll be 2+3 seating like the 313s? There's no reason to expect the interiors to differ from the 700's -- Roland Perry |
When will the 700s reach moorgate?
On 2018\03\28 16:52, wrote:
On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 16:00:23 +0100 Basil Jet wrote: On 2018\03\28 15:26, wrote: On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 04:36:25 -0700 (PDT) Paul Corfield wrote: On Wednesday, 28 March 2018 12:08:38 UTC+1, wrote: I used the moorgate line today. Still no sign of the 700s down there, jus= t the usual 313s which don't look like they've had any TLC for a long time now. Are the 700s still waiting approval to run down there or do great no= rthern want to use the 700s on just the express routes initiallt? 700s will not run to Moorgate as they are too long and do not have cab door= s for tunnel evacuation. GTR ordered a variant called the 717 which will re= place the 313s. This are 6 cars long and do have centre cab doors. The fir= One has to wonder why they didn't just specify centre cab doors for all of them. Because then you would have complained that the 8- and 12-car trains had wasted money on gangway doors which only the 6-car trains needed. So you think fleet interoperatibility is a bad thing then? I think I am less qualified to comment on it here than the people who made the decision. Marshalling train lengths was a solved problem in the 19th century. With dumb carriages pulled by a loco. In an EMU the compressor goes under one carriage, the transformer goes under another and so on to equalise the weight, and I would guess that no combination of six carriages can be removed from a 12-car 700 to get a functional six car train, although I don't actually know, but the decision over the stock was made by someone who did. Anyway, when the 700s were ordered, they might not have even decided yet that the Moorgate trains would be from the same manufacturer. If they told the supplier that they had made that decision, that would drive up the cost of the latter fleet, unless they signed for both fleets at the same time, which they might not have been authorised to do. |
When will the 700s reach moorgate?
On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 17:07:33 +0100
Basil Jet wrote: On 2018\03\28 16:52, wrote: So you think fleet interoperatibility is a bad thing then? I think I am less qualified to comment on it here than the people who made the decision. Long termism rarely seems to come into railway decision making these days. Cost is all that matters - witness the cheap, rock hard seats in the 700s. In 10 years time I doubt new trains will even have fabric on their seats, it'll be bare plastic like in eastern europe. equalise the weight, and I would guess that no combination of six carriages can be removed from a 12-car 700 to get a functional six car train, although I don't actually know, but the decision over the stock was made by someone who did. Unlikely. More a case of Siemens presented a product which they bought. Anyway, when the 700s were ordered, they might not have even decided yet that the Moorgate trains would be from the same manufacturer. If they If they didn't then they were bloody fools. But having watched the paddington program on C5 I'm increasingly coming to the conclusion that working for the railways is where fools end up. |
When will the 700s reach moorgate?
On 28/03/2018 17:07, Basil Jet wrote:
Anyway, when the 700s were ordered, they might not have even decided yet that the Moorgate trains would be from the same manufacturer. If they The 700s were bought by DfT through a custom structure, the 717s were ordered by GTR via a leasing company. -- Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK |
When will the 700s reach moorgate?
On 28/03/2018 16:07, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 14:26:26 on Wed, 28 Mar 2018, remarked: 700s will not run to Moorgate as they are too long and do not have cab door= s for tunnel evacuation. GTR ordered a variant called the 717 which will re= place the 313s. This are 6 cars long and do have centre cab doors. The fir= Do you know if they'll be 2+3 seating like the 313s? There's no reason to expect the interiors to differ from the 700's No tiolets. -- Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK |
When will the 700s reach moorgate?
In message , at
20:47:08 on Thu, 29 Mar 2018, Arthur Figgis remarked: 700s will not run to Moorgate as they are too long and do not have cab door= s for tunnel evacuation. GTR ordered a variant called the 717 which will re= place the 313s. This are 6 cars long and do have centre cab doors. The fir= Do you know if they'll be 2+3 seating like the 313s? There's no reason to expect the interiors to differ from the 700's No tiolets. Fair enough. And the style of seating? -- Roland Perry |
When will the 700s reach moorgate?
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When will the 700s reach moorgate?
In message , at 06:54:49
on Fri, 30 Mar 2018, remarked: In article , (Roland Perry) wrote: In message , at 20:47:08 on Thu, 29 Mar 2018, Arthur Figgis remarked: 700s will not run to Moorgate as they are too long and do not have cab doors for tunnel evacuation. GTR ordered a variant called the 717 which will replace the 313s. This are 6 cars long and do have centre cab doors. The fir Do you know if they'll be 2+3 seating like the 313s? There's no reason to expect the interiors to differ from the 700's No tiolets. Fair enough. And the style of seating? Following current fashion, no doubt. Unlikely to be 3+2, then; which was all that had been asked. I visited Wimbledon Traincare Depot recently but forgot to take a close enough look at the class 707s there to see how their seats compare with those on the 700s. I am told they are similar. A mixture of 2+2 and 2+1, I think. -- Roland Perry |
When will the 700s reach moorgate?
In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote: In message , at 06:54:49 on Fri, 30 Mar 2018, remarked: In article , (Roland Perry) wrote: In message , at 20:47:08 on Thu, 29 Mar 2018, Arthur Figgis remarked: 700s will not run to Moorgate as they are too long and do not have cab doors for tunnel evacuation. GTR ordered a variant called the 717 which will replace the 313s. This are 6 cars long and do have centre cab doors. The fir Do you know if they'll be 2+3 seating like the 313s? There's no reason to expect the interiors to differ from the 700's No tiolets. Fair enough. And the style of seating? Following current fashion, no doubt. Unlikely to be 3+2, then; which was all that had been asked. I visited Wimbledon Traincare Depot recently but forgot to take a close enough look at the class 707s there to see how their seats compare with those on the 700s. I am told they are similar. A mixture of 2+2 and 2+1, I think. That was only part of the question. No tables I think is true. Siemens have form on that score on South Western - vide the 450s which are used on express services with refreshments trolleys despite that definite handicap. The other question is seat spacing and lack of armrests, something of a new low on the 700s. -- Colin Rosenstiel |
When will the 700s reach moorgate?
On Fri, 30 Mar 2018 13:31:30 -0500
wrote: In article , (Roland Perry) wrote: In message , at 06:54:49 on Fri, 30 Mar 2018, remarked: In article , (Roland Perry) wrote: In message , at 20:47:08 on Thu, 29 Mar 2018, Arthur Figgis remarked: 700s will not run to Moorgate as they are too long and do not have cab doors for tunnel evacuation. GTR ordered a variant called the 717 which will replace the 313s. This are 6 cars long and do have centre cab doors. The fir Do you know if they'll be 2+3 seating like the 313s? There's no reason to expect the interiors to differ from the 700's No tiolets. Fair enough. And the style of seating? Following current fashion, no doubt. Unlikely to be 3+2, then; which was all that had been asked. I visited Wimbledon Traincare Depot recently but forgot to take a close enough look at the class 707s there to see how their seats compare with those on the 700s. I am told they are similar. A mixture of 2+2 and 2+1, I think. That was only part of the question. No tables I think is true. Siemens have form on that score on South Western - vide the 450s which are used on express services with refreshments trolleys despite that definite handicap. The other question is seat spacing and lack of armrests, something of a new low on the 700s. The race to the bottom for passenger comfort continues unabated it seems. I find it hard to believe an extra bit of padding and armrests for the seats would even make a blip in the final cost of each train, but I guess they must do it for financial reasons. Unless it is purely out of spite. |
When will the 700s reach moorgate?
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When will the 700s reach moorgate?
John Williamson wrote:
On 31/03/2018 17:34, wrote: The race to the bottom for passenger comfort continues unabated it seems. I find it hard to believe an extra bit of padding and armrests for the seats would even make a blip in the final cost of each train, but I guess they must do it for financial reasons. Unless it is purely out of spite. From experience on buses and coaches, the extra cost comes in the time it takes to clean padded seats either daily or after a puking incident. But the rock hard new train seats *are* padded. However, the padding is much too thin, there's no spring base and the seats are badly shaped and too upright. The armrests are either missing or too short, and the spacer between seat pairs is often absent. The problem is that most train buyers don't specify that they require comfortable seats, but do want the train to cost less. If they demanded comfortable seats, the train builders would fit them from new; retrofitting them after delivery would cost much more. On one notorious occasion (In the 1970s), The Man From The Ministry took every single RM on one route off the road for "dirty seats", after someone had upset him. If there is no padding or cloth involved, then the dust from passengers' skin can't build up and need a deep clean every day or two. We don't usually (yet) have hard plastic or metal shell seats in UK buses and trains. But upholstery alone doesn't make seats comfortable; they also need padding and an ergonomic shape, with a sloping seat base and lumbar support. |
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