future of HeX, was Secret map
On Thu, 30 Aug 2018 20:44:02 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote: John Levine wrote: In article , Recliner wrote: I suspect very shortly after crossrail opens at heathrow Hex will be history. Maybe even a matter of months. I think it may survive as a faster, slightly more premium option, with fares no more than £15. But no way will it survive with £27 buy-on-board fares. There just won't be enough takers. There's currently 4 tph on the HeX and 2 tph on the ex-Connect TfL. Next year there'll be 6 tph on TfL, four to T4 and two to T5. I think Crossrail is aiming for 8 tph to Heathrow eventually. Along with the 12 tph on the Picc, that's 22 tph. Are there that many people who want to take a train into London? I guess we'll see. The 12 tph Piccadilly line trains are already packed, so there's certainly Hobsons choice. I can guarantee that once crossrail is up and running and tourists know about it the picc will become a ghost line. Few people apart from local residents and maybe heathrow workers are going to use that hopeless service to slog into london when they can do it in 1/4 the time for the same or slightly more money (not sure of crossrail costs to heathrow). |
There was a busy Piccadilly Line service to Hounslow long before the extension to Heathrow was built. Obviously the Piccadilly will lose most of its Heathrow custom but Hounslow East and Boston Manor will still generate considerable business.
|
future of HeX, was Secret map
wrote:
On Thu, 30 Aug 2018 20:44:02 -0000 (UTC) Recliner wrote: John Levine wrote: In article , Recliner wrote: I suspect very shortly after crossrail opens at heathrow Hex will be history. Maybe even a matter of months. I think it may survive as a faster, slightly more premium option, with fares no more than £15. But no way will it survive with £27 buy-on-board fares. There just won't be enough takers. There's currently 4 tph on the HeX and 2 tph on the ex-Connect TfL. Next year there'll be 6 tph on TfL, four to T4 and two to T5. I think Crossrail is aiming for 8 tph to Heathrow eventually. Along with the 12 tph on the Picc, that's 22 tph. Are there that many people who want to take a train into London? I guess we'll see. The 12 tph Piccadilly line trains are already packed, so there's certainly Hobsons choice. I can guarantee that once crossrail is up and running and tourists know about it the picc will become a ghost line. Few people apart from local residents and maybe heathrow workers are going to use that hopeless service to slog into london when they can do it in 1/4 the time for the same or slightly more money (not sure of crossrail costs to heathrow). For many places in central London, the Piccadilly will still be the better choice. For example, Crossrail has no interchanges with the Piccadilly or Victoria lines, so it won't necessarily be the best choice for anyone who wants to get to any of the stations on those lines. Prices will also be significantly higher than using LU all the way (I've already posted the fares upthread), though that may not be a factor for many Heathrow travellers. So, while Crossrail will undoubtedly reduce the overcrowding on Piccadilly line trains, they'll still stay quite busy. It's different to HEx, that only has speed as an advantage over Crossrail; the Piccadilly also wins on convenience for many destinations. For example, Crossrail is the obvious choice for getting from Heathrow to Paddington or Liverpool Street, but the Piccadilly will remain better for Kings Cross or Victoria. |
future of HeX, was Secret map
Robin9 wrote:
There was a busy Piccadilly Line service to Hounslow long before the extension to Heathrow was built. Obviously the Piccadilly will lose most of its Heathrow custom but Hounslow East and Boston Manor will still generate considerable business. Actually, I think it'll keep quite a lot of its Heathrow business, too: for many people (including me), it will remain the most convenient way of getting to the airport, even after the full Crossrail service commences. |
future of HeX, was Secret map
On Fri, 31 Aug 2018 09:11:54 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote: wrote: Hobsons choice. I can guarantee that once crossrail is up and running and tourists know about it the picc will become a ghost line. Few people apart from local residents and maybe heathrow workers are going to use that hopeless service to slog into london when they can do it in 1/4 the time for the same or slightly more money (not sure of crossrail costs to heathrow). For many places in central London, the Piccadilly will still be the better choice. For example, Crossrail has no interchanges with the Piccadilly or Victoria lines, so it won't necessarily be the best choice for anyone who wants to get to any of the stations on those lines. Prices will also be significantly higher than using LU all the way (I've already posted the fares upthread), though that may not be a factor for many Heathrow travellers. So, while Crossrail will undoubtedly reduce the overcrowding on Piccadilly line trains, they'll still stay quite busy. It's different to HEx, that only has speed as an advantage over Crossrail; the Piccadilly also wins on convenience for many destinations. For example, Crossrail is the obvious choice for getting from Heathrow to Paddington or Liverpool Street, but the Piccadilly will remain better for Kings Cross or Victoria. Farrindgon is one stop from KX. By the time you've taken crossrail from Heathrow, changed at Farringdon and arrive at KX the alternate piccadilly line train might just have made it to Hammersmith. But more likely will be stuck at Acton Town with a signal failure. |
future of HeX, was Secret map
wrote:
On Fri, 31 Aug 2018 09:11:54 -0000 (UTC) Recliner wrote: wrote: Hobsons choice. I can guarantee that once crossrail is up and running and tourists know about it the picc will become a ghost line. Few people apart from local residents and maybe heathrow workers are going to use that hopeless service to slog into london when they can do it in 1/4 the time for the same or slightly more money (not sure of crossrail costs to heathrow). For many places in central London, the Piccadilly will still be the better choice. For example, Crossrail has no interchanges with the Piccadilly or Victoria lines, so it won't necessarily be the best choice for anyone who wants to get to any of the stations on those lines. Prices will also be significantly higher than using LU all the way (I've already posted the fares upthread), though that may not be a factor for many Heathrow travellers. So, while Crossrail will undoubtedly reduce the overcrowding on Piccadilly line trains, they'll still stay quite busy. It's different to HEx, that only has speed as an advantage over Crossrail; the Piccadilly also wins on convenience for many destinations. For example, Crossrail is the obvious choice for getting from Heathrow to Paddington or Liverpool Street, but the Piccadilly will remain better for Kings Cross or Victoria. Farrindgon is one stop from KX. By the time you've taken crossrail from Heathrow, changed at Farringdon and arrive at KX the alternate piccadilly line train might just have made it to Hammersmith. But more likely will be stuck at Acton Town with a signal failure. Heathrow Central to Kings Cross is 55 mins on the Tube, with no changes and 12 tph. Allow 2 mins waiting time, so 57 mins overall. On Crossrail, it will be 31 mins to Farringdon, 6tph. Allowing 5 mins waiting time, that's 36 mins. Then allow 10 mins to change to Thameslink, and say 3 mins journey time to Kings Cross, so it's about 49 mins total. Is it worth the hassle of changing trains with luggage, and up to triple the fare, to save just eight minutes? You may think so, but many others will disagree. |
future of HeX, was Secret map
On Fri, 31 Aug 2018 10:21:03 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote: wrote: Farrindgon is one stop from KX. By the time you've taken crossrail from Heathrow, changed at Farringdon and arrive at KX the alternate piccadilly line train might just have made it to Hammersmith. But more likely will be stuck at Acton Town with a signal failure. Heathrow Central to Kings Cross is 55 mins on the Tube, with no changes and 12 tph. Allow 2 mins waiting time, so 57 mins overall. On Crossrail, it will be 31 mins to Farringdon, 6tph. Allowing 5 mins waiting time, that's 36 mins. Then allow 10 mins to change to Thameslink, and say 3 mins journey time to Kings Cross, so it's about 49 mins total. Is it worth the hassle of changing trains with luggage, and up to triple the fare, to save just eight minutes? Why on earth would you get thameslink to KX? Get the H&S/Circle line, there's a train every 2 or 3 minutes. |
future of HeX, was Secret map
wrote:
On Fri, 31 Aug 2018 10:21:03 -0000 (UTC) Recliner wrote: wrote: Farrindgon is one stop from KX. By the time you've taken crossrail from Heathrow, changed at Farringdon and arrive at KX the alternate piccadilly line train might just have made it to Hammersmith. But more likely will be stuck at Acton Town with a signal failure. Heathrow Central to Kings Cross is 55 mins on the Tube, with no changes and 12 tph. Allow 2 mins waiting time, so 57 mins overall. On Crossrail, it will be 31 mins to Farringdon, 6tph. Allowing 5 mins waiting time, that's 36 mins. Then allow 10 mins to change to Thameslink, and say 3 mins journey time to Kings Cross, so it's about 49 mins total. Is it worth the hassle of changing trains with luggage, and up to triple the fare, to save just eight minutes? Why on earth would you get thameslink to KX? Get the H&S/Circle line, there's a train every 2 or 3 minutes. The change at Farringdon is likely to be much easier to Thameslink. Using LU will make the change longer, and the trains are hardly more frequent than TL is planned to be before Crossrail is running from Heathrow to Farringdon. So, under your suggestion, make that 51 minutes via Crossrail: a saving of just 6 minutes, for triple the fare, much more walking, and an unnecessary change of train. That's about as good as most of your suggestions. |
future of HeX, was Secret map
"Recliner" wrote in message ... Robin9 wrote: There was a busy Piccadilly Line service to Hounslow long before the extension to Heathrow was built. Obviously the Piccadilly will lose most of its Heathrow custom but Hounslow East and Boston Manor will still generate considerable business. Actually, I think it'll keep quite a lot of its Heathrow business, too: for many people (including me), it will remain the most convenient way of getting to the airport, even after the full Crossrail service commences. yep me too Once ensconced in my new abode it will be District to Earls Court, change onto the Picc. What would be the point of staying on the train to Padd to change onto Lizzy, even if I was on a train that was going to Padd in the first place? tim |
future of HeX, was Secret map
On Fri, 31 Aug 2018 13:48:52 +0100, "tim..."
wrote: "Recliner" wrote in message ... Robin9 wrote: There was a busy Piccadilly Line service to Hounslow long before the extension to Heathrow was built. Obviously the Piccadilly will lose most of its Heathrow custom but Hounslow East and Boston Manor will still generate considerable business. Actually, I think it'll keep quite a lot of its Heathrow business, too: for many people (including me), it will remain the most convenient way of getting to the airport, even after the full Crossrail service commences. yep me too Once ensconced in my new abode it will be District to Earls Court, change onto the Picc. Why not use the much easier cross-platform change at Barons Court? What would be the point of staying on the train to Padd to change onto Lizzy, even if I was on a train that was going to Padd in the first place? Exactly |
future of HeX, was Secret map
On 31/08/2018 14:01, Recliner wrote:
On Fri, 31 Aug 2018 13:48:52 +0100, "tim..." wrote: "Recliner" wrote in message ... Robin9 wrote: There was a busy Piccadilly Line service to Hounslow long before the extension to Heathrow was built. Obviously the Piccadilly will lose most of its Heathrow custom but Hounslow East and Boston Manor will still generate considerable business. Actually, I think it'll keep quite a lot of its Heathrow business, too: for many people (including me), it will remain the most convenient way of getting to the airport, even after the full Crossrail service commences. yep me too Once ensconced in my new abode it will be District to Earls Court, change onto the Picc. Why not use the much easier cross-platform change at Barons Court? Or even Hammersmith. Though it depends which branch of the District Line tim will be moving to. If he's coming from Fulham Broadway, Earls' Court is his only practical option -- Graeme Wall This account not read. |
future of HeX, was Secret map
On Fri, 31 Aug 2018 11:27:35 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote: wrote: On Fri, 31 Aug 2018 10:21:03 -0000 (UTC) Recliner wrote: wrote: Farrindgon is one stop from KX. By the time you've taken crossrail from Heathrow, changed at Farringdon and arrive at KX the alternate piccadilly line train might just have made it to Hammersmith. But more likely will be stuck at Acton Town with a signal failure. Heathrow Central to Kings Cross is 55 mins on the Tube, with no changes and 12 tph. Allow 2 mins waiting time, so 57 mins overall. On Crossrail, it will be 31 mins to Farringdon, 6tph. Allowing 5 mins waiting time, that's 36 mins. Then allow 10 mins to change to Thameslink, and say 3 mins journey time to Kings Cross, so it's about 49 mins total. Is it worth the hassle of changing trains with luggage, and up to triple the fare, to save just eight minutes? Why on earth would you get thameslink to KX? Get the H&S/Circle line, there's a train every 2 or 3 minutes. The change at Farringdon is likely to be much easier to Thameslink. Using You'll be able to share the passageway diagrams you've obviously getting this from then won't you. LU will make the change longer, and the trains are hardly more frequent than TL is planned to be before Crossrail is running from Heathrow to Farringdon. I work near blackfriars and can see the lines into the station. I can assure you the tube is more frequent than thameslink whatever the timetable may say. So, under your suggestion, make that 51 minutes via Crossrail: a saving of just 6 minutes, for triple the fare, much more walking, and an unnecessary change of train. That's about as good as most of your suggestions. Unlike you I wouldn't take 10 minutes to walk from one platform to another. Perhaps upgrade your walking stick. As for 55 mins from heathrow to KX on the piccadilly line, thats a bloody joke. I used to work near heathrow and did that run every day. If it took less than an hour then someone probably got a medal at earls court. |
future of HeX, was Secret map
"Recliner" wrote in message ... On Fri, 31 Aug 2018 13:48:52 +0100, "tim..." wrote: "Recliner" wrote in message ... Robin9 wrote: There was a busy Piccadilly Line service to Hounslow long before the extension to Heathrow was built. Obviously the Piccadilly will lose most of its Heathrow custom but Hounslow East and Boston Manor will still generate considerable business. Actually, I think it'll keep quite a lot of its Heathrow business, too: for many people (including me), it will remain the most convenient way of getting to the airport, even after the full Crossrail service commences. yep me too Once ensconced in my new abode it will be District to Earls Court, change onto the Picc. Why not use the much easier cross-platform change at Barons Court? because that bit of the district doesn't go to Barons Court (the clue is below) tim What would be the point of staying on the train to Padd to change onto Lizzy, even if I was on a train that was going to Padd in the first place? Exactly |
future of HeX, was Secret map
"Graeme Wall" wrote in message ... On 31/08/2018 14:01, Recliner wrote: On Fri, 31 Aug 2018 13:48:52 +0100, "tim..." wrote: "Recliner" wrote in message ... Robin9 wrote: There was a busy Piccadilly Line service to Hounslow long before the extension to Heathrow was built. Obviously the Piccadilly will lose most of its Heathrow custom but Hounslow East and Boston Manor will still generate considerable business. Actually, I think it'll keep quite a lot of its Heathrow business, too: for many people (including me), it will remain the most convenient way of getting to the airport, even after the full Crossrail service commences. yep me too Once ensconced in my new abode it will be District to Earls Court, change onto the Picc. Why not use the much easier cross-platform change at Barons Court? Or even Hammersmith. Currently, when I travel via Victoria mainline, I find Barons Court a nicer option than Hammersmith Though it depends which branch of the District Line tim will be moving to. If he's coming from Fulham Broadway, Earls' Court is his only practical option Yep (but it's not Fulham Broadway) tim |
future of HeX, was Secret map
Neil Robertson wrote:
On Fri, 31 Aug 2018 11:27:35 -0000 (UTC) Recliner wrote: Neil Robertson wrote: On Fri, 31 Aug 2018 10:21:03 -0000 (UTC) Recliner wrote: Neil Robertson wrote: Farrindgon is one stop from KX. By the time you've taken crossrail from Heathrow, changed at Farringdon and arrive at KX the alternate piccadilly line train might just have made it to Hammersmith. But more likely will be stuck at Acton Town with a signal failure. Heathrow Central to Kings Cross is 55 mins on the Tube, with no changes and 12 tph. Allow 2 mins waiting time, so 57 mins overall. On Crossrail, it will be 31 mins to Farringdon, 6tph. Allowing 5 mins waiting time, that's 36 mins. Then allow 10 mins to change to Thameslink, and say 3 mins journey time to Kings Cross, so it's about 49 mins total. Is it worth the hassle of changing trains with luggage, and up to triple the fare, to save just eight minutes? Why on earth would you get thameslink to KX? Get the H&S/Circle line, there's a train every 2 or 3 minutes. The change at Farringdon is likely to be much easier to Thameslink. Using You'll be able to share the passageway diagrams you've obviously getting this from then won't you. You appear not to have actually seen Farringdon station. But that doesn't stop you sounding off ignorantly, as usual. LU will make the change longer, and the trains are hardly more frequent than TL is planned to be before Crossrail is running from Heathrow to Farringdon. I work near blackfriars and can see the lines into the station. I can assure you the tube is more frequent than thameslink whatever the timetable may say. And is the 2020 timetable projected through your window? Not so long ago, you flatly refused to believe that the track you're looking at was the Thameslink msin line. Now you claim to know the future timetable. Ignorance, piled upon ignorance. So, under your suggestion, make that 51 minutes via Crossrail: a saving of just 6 minutes, for triple the fare, much more walking, and an unnecessary change of train. That's about as good as most of your suggestions. Unlike you I wouldn't take 10 minutes to walk from one platform to another. Perhaps upgrade your walking stick. As you know nothing about the station layout, or timetable, we can put the usual zero credence on your claim. |
future of HeX, was Secret map
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 31/08/2018 14:01, Recliner wrote: On Fri, 31 Aug 2018 13:48:52 +0100, "tim..." wrote: "Recliner" wrote in message ... Robin9 wrote: There was a busy Piccadilly Line service to Hounslow long before the extension to Heathrow was built. Obviously the Piccadilly will lose most of its Heathrow custom but Hounslow East and Boston Manor will still generate considerable business. Actually, I think it'll keep quite a lot of its Heathrow business, too: for many people (including me), it will remain the most convenient way of getting to the airport, even after the full Crossrail service commences. yep me too Once ensconced in my new abode it will be District to Earls Court, change onto the Picc. Why not use the much easier cross-platform change at Barons Court? Or even Hammersmith. Baron's Court is slightly better. Though it depends which branch of the District Line tim will be moving to. If he's coming from Fulham Broadway, Earls' Court is his only practical option True. |
future of HeX, was Secret map
tim... wrote:
"Recliner" wrote in message ... On Fri, 31 Aug 2018 13:48:52 +0100, "tim..." wrote: "Recliner" wrote in message ... Robin9 wrote: There was a busy Piccadilly Line service to Hounslow long before the extension to Heathrow was built. Obviously the Piccadilly will lose most of its Heathrow custom but Hounslow East and Boston Manor will still generate considerable business. Actually, I think it'll keep quite a lot of its Heathrow business, too: for many people (including me), it will remain the most convenient way of getting to the airport, even after the full Crossrail service commences. yep me too Once ensconced in my new abode it will be District to Earls Court, change onto the Picc. Why not use the much easier cross-platform change at Barons Court? because that bit of the district doesn't go to Barons Court (the clue is below) Agreed, if you're on the Wimbledon branch, Earl's Court is the best place to change (but not ideal with luggage). |
future of HeX, was Secret map
On 31/08/2018 16:01, tim... wrote:
"Graeme Wall" wrote in message ... On 31/08/2018 14:01, Recliner wrote: On Fri, 31 Aug 2018 13:48:52 +0100, "tim..." wrote: "Recliner" wrote in message ... Robin9 wrote: There was a busy Piccadilly Line service to Hounslow long before the extension to Heathrow was built. Obviously the Piccadilly will lose most of its Heathrow custom but Hounslow East and Boston Manor will still generate considerable business. Actually, I think it'll keep quite a lot of its Heathrow business, too: for many people (including me), it will remain the most convenient way of getting to the airport, even after the full Crossrail service commences. yep me too Once ensconced in my new abode it will be District to Earls Court, change onto the Picc. Why not use the much easier cross-platform change at Barons Court? Or even Hammersmith. Currently, when I travel via Victoria mainline, I find Barons Court a nicer option than Hammersmith Certainly less frenetic most of the day. Though it depends which branch of the District Line tim will be moving to. If he's coming from Fulham Broadway, Earls' Court is his only practical option Yep (but it's not Fulham Broadway) :-) -- Graeme Wall This account not read. |
future of HeX, was Secret map
On 31/08/2018 16:10, Recliner wrote:
Graeme Wall wrote: On 31/08/2018 14:01, Recliner wrote: On Fri, 31 Aug 2018 13:48:52 +0100, "tim..." wrote: "Recliner" wrote in message ... Robin9 wrote: There was a busy Piccadilly Line service to Hounslow long before the extension to Heathrow was built. Obviously the Piccadilly will lose most of its Heathrow custom but Hounslow East and Boston Manor will still generate considerable business. Actually, I think it'll keep quite a lot of its Heathrow business, too: for many people (including me), it will remain the most convenient way of getting to the airport, even after the full Crossrail service commences. yep me too Once ensconced in my new abode it will be District to Earls Court, change onto the Picc. Why not use the much easier cross-platform change at Barons Court? Or even Hammersmith. Baron's Court is slightly better. My only reason is that a couple of times I have overtaken the District Line train between there and Hammersmith and caught an earlier train to Richmond than I otherwise would. For some reason the tube trains seem to take a minute or so less between the two. -- Graeme Wall This account not read. |
future of HeX, was Secret map
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 31/08/2018 16:10, Recliner wrote: Graeme Wall wrote: On 31/08/2018 14:01, Recliner wrote: On Fri, 31 Aug 2018 13:48:52 +0100, "tim..." wrote: "Recliner" wrote in message ... Robin9 wrote: There was a busy Piccadilly Line service to Hounslow long before the extension to Heathrow was built. Obviously the Piccadilly will lose most of its Heathrow custom but Hounslow East and Boston Manor will still generate considerable business. Actually, I think it'll keep quite a lot of its Heathrow business, too: for many people (including me), it will remain the most convenient way of getting to the airport, even after the full Crossrail service commences. yep me too Once ensconced in my new abode it will be District to Earls Court, change onto the Picc. Why not use the much easier cross-platform change at Barons Court? Or even Hammersmith. Baron's Court is slightly better. My only reason is that a couple of times I have overtaken the District Line train between there and Hammersmith and caught an earlier train to Richmond than I otherwise would. For some reason the tube trains seem to take a minute or so less between the two. We were talking about changing *from* the District to the westbound Piccadilly, so that's another reason to change at Barons Court. |
future of HeX, was Secret map
On 31/08/2018 17:00, Recliner wrote:
Graeme Wall wrote: On 31/08/2018 16:10, Recliner wrote: Graeme Wall wrote: On 31/08/2018 14:01, Recliner wrote: On Fri, 31 Aug 2018 13:48:52 +0100, "tim..." wrote: "Recliner" wrote in message ... Robin9 wrote: There was a busy Piccadilly Line service to Hounslow long before the extension to Heathrow was built. Obviously the Piccadilly will lose most of its Heathrow custom but Hounslow East and Boston Manor will still generate considerable business. Actually, I think it'll keep quite a lot of its Heathrow business, too: for many people (including me), it will remain the most convenient way of getting to the airport, even after the full Crossrail service commences. yep me too Once ensconced in my new abode it will be District to Earls Court, change onto the Picc. Why not use the much easier cross-platform change at Barons Court? Or even Hammersmith. Baron's Court is slightly better. My only reason is that a couple of times I have overtaken the District Line train between there and Hammersmith and caught an earlier train to Richmond than I otherwise would. For some reason the tube trains seem to take a minute or so less between the two. We were talking about changing *from* the District to the westbound Piccadilly, so that's another reason to change at Barons Court. So we are… -- Graeme Wall This account not read. |
future of HeX, was Secret map
wrote:
On Thu, 30 Aug 2018 20:44:02 -0000 (UTC) Recliner wrote: John Levine wrote: In article , Recliner wrote: I suspect very shortly after crossrail opens at heathrow Hex will be history. Maybe even a matter of months. I think it may survive as a faster, slightly more premium option, with fares no more than £15. But no way will it survive with £27 buy-on-board fares. There just won't be enough takers. There's currently 4 tph on the HeX and 2 tph on the ex-Connect TfL. Next year there'll be 6 tph on TfL, four to T4 and two to T5. I think Crossrail is aiming for 8 tph to Heathrow eventually. Along with the 12 tph on the Picc, that's 22 tph. Are there that many people who want to take a train into London? I guess we'll see. The 12 tph Piccadilly line trains are already packed, so there's certainly Hobsons choice. I can guarantee that once crossrail is up and running and tourists know about it the picc will become a ghost line. Few people apart from local residents and maybe heathrow workers are going to use that hopeless service to slog into london when they can do it in 1/4 the time for the same or slightly more money (not sure of crossrail costs to heathrow). Surely that depends where they’re staying - any tourists with a hotel in Hammersmith, Kensington or Knightsbridge will surely still be better off on the Piccadilly? Anna Noyd-Dryver |
future of HeX, was Secret map
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future of HeX, was Secret map
Graham Harrison wrote:
On Fri, 31 Aug 2018 08:39:34 +0000 (UTC), Neil Robertson wrote: On Thu, 30 Aug 2018 20:44:02 -0000 (UTC) Recliner wrote: John Levine wrote: In article , Recliner wrote: I suspect very shortly after crossrail opens at heathrow Hex will be history. Maybe even a matter of months. I think it may survive as a faster, slightly more premium option, with fares no more than £15. But no way will it survive with £27 buy-on-board fares. There just won't be enough takers. There's currently 4 tph on the HeX and 2 tph on the ex-Connect TfL. Next year there'll be 6 tph on TfL, four to T4 and two to T5. I think Crossrail is aiming for 8 tph to Heathrow eventually. Along with the 12 tph on the Picc, that's 22 tph. Are there that many people who want to take a train into London? I guess we'll see. The 12 tph Piccadilly line trains are already packed, so there's certainly Hobsons choice. I can guarantee that once crossrail is up and running and tourists know about it the picc will become a ghost line. Few people apart from local residents and maybe heathrow workers are going to use that hopeless service to slog into london when they can do it in 1/4 the time for the same or slightly more money (not sure of crossrail costs to heathrow). How many Heathrow workers use HCon and the Picc? I think you'll find there's enough of them that neither route will become a "ghost line". Not only that but long before the Heathrow extension of the Picc the loadings on the Hounslow branch with people traveling to the various destinations (not just central London) didn't qualify as a ghost line. Don't confuse Neil with facts… he has an unshakeable commitment to ignorance and prejudice. |
future of HeX, was Secret map
On Fri, 31 Aug 2018 15:10:37 -0000 (UTC)
Sad old Billy No Mates wrote: Neil Robertson wrote: On Fri, 31 Aug 2018 11:27:35 -0000 (UTC) Recliner wrote: You'll be able to share the passageway diagrams you've obviously getting this from then won't you. You appear not to have actually seen Farringdon station. But that doesn't stop you sounding off ignorantly, as usual. So you've had exclusive access to the crossrail works have you? If not then you're just talking out of your backside. As usual. I work near blackfriars and can see the lines into the station. I can assure you the tube is more frequent than thameslink whatever the timetable may say. And is the 2020 timetable projected through your window? Oh, so you know the 2020 timetable as well do you? You really are a grand seer! Please oh great one, do share your knowledge with us mortals! Not so long ago, you flatly refused to believe that the track you're looking at was the Thameslink msin line. Now you claim to know the future timetable. Ignorance, piled upon ignorance. You're the one that gave times based on some timetable you know nothing about, I'm simply reporting the service as it is today Billy. Unlike you I wouldn't take 10 minutes to walk from one platform to another. Perhaps upgrade your walking stick. As you know nothing about the station layout, or timetable, we can put the usual zero credence on your claim. Neither do you you sad old *******, but it wouldn't take me 10 mins to walk from the tube at KX to St P thameslink so I very much doubt it'll take more time to go from xrail to the tube at farringdon. 10 mins is a half mile walk for a healthy man, though obviously that rules you out. |
future of HeX, was Secret map
Heathrow Central to Kings Cross is 55 mins on the Tube, with no changes and
12 tph. Allow 2 mins waiting time, so 57 mins overall. On Crossrail, it will be 31 mins to Farringdon, 6tph. Allowing 5 mins waiting time, that's 36 mins. Then allow 10 mins to change to Thameslink, and say 3 mins journey time to Kings Cross, so it's about 49 mins total. Is it worth the hassle of changing trains with luggage, and up to triple the fare, to save just eight minutes? Depends on why you're going to Kings Cross. For a LNER train to Leeds, yes there's a big difference. But for places like Welwyn, Huntingdon, or Cambridge, you might as well change at Farringdon for a direct train. Why on earth would you get thameslink to KX? Get the H&S/Circle line, there's a train every 2 or 3 minutes. The change at Farringdon is likely to be much easier to Thameslink. Using LU will make the change longer, Why? The two lines are in parallel platforms at this point; the southbound Thameslink and westbound Circle effectively share a platform (albeit at different heights). -- Clive D.W. Feather |
future of HeX, was Secret map
Clive D.W. Feather wrote:
Heathrow Central to Kings Cross is 55 mins on the Tube, with no changes and 12 tph. Allow 2 mins waiting time, so 57 mins overall. On Crossrail, it will be 31 mins to Farringdon, 6tph. Allowing 5 mins waiting time, that's 36 mins. Then allow 10 mins to change to Thameslink, and say 3 mins journey time to Kings Cross, so it's about 49 mins total. Is it worth the hassle of changing trains with luggage, and up to triple the fare, to save just eight minutes? Depends on why you're going to Kings Cross. For a LNER train to Leeds, yes there's a big difference. But for places like Welwyn, Huntingdon, or Cambridge, you might as well change at Farringdon for a direct train. Why on earth would you get thameslink to KX? Get the H&S/Circle line, there's a train every 2 or 3 minutes. The change at Farringdon is likely to be much easier to Thameslink. Using LU will make the change longer, Why? The two lines are in parallel platforms at this point; the southbound Thameslink and westbound Circle effectively share a platform (albeit at different heights). Yes, but only at the northern end. The Crossrail connection to TL will be at the southern end. To get to the west-bound Circle line platform will require joining the southbound TL platform, walking half its length, then taking the short staircase to the west-bound Circle line. At best, it's a longer walk, but it's even worse if carrying luggage. |
future of HeX, was Secret map
In message , at 07:58:52 on Wed, 12 Sep
2018, Clive D.W. Feather remarked: Heathrow Central to Kings Cross is 55 mins on the Tube, with no changes and 12 tph. Allow 2 mins waiting time, so 57 mins overall. On Crossrail, it will be 31 mins to Farringdon, 6tph. Allowing 5 mins waiting time, that's 36 mins. Then allow 10 mins to change to Thameslink, and say 3 mins journey time to Kings Cross, so it's about 49 mins total. Is it worth the hassle of changing trains with luggage, and up to triple the fare, to save just eight minutes? Depends on why you're going to Kings Cross. For a LNER train to Leeds, yes there's a big difference. But for places like Welwyn, Huntingdon, or Cambridge, you might as well change at Farringdon for a direct train. Agreed for all but Cambridge, where it's perhaps useful to think of the non-stop Cambridge services (the old Cruisers) as "LNER in waiting", and if we are shaving minutes off here and there they will be preferable to the semi-fast Thameslink trains which also take an age between arriving at SPILL and departing Finsbury Park. Why on earth would you get thameslink to KX? Get the H&S/Circle line, there's a train every 2 or 3 minutes. The change at Farringdon is likely to be much easier to Thameslink. Using LU will make the change longer, Why? The two lines are in parallel platforms at this point; the southbound Thameslink and westbound Circle effectively share a platform (albeit at different heights). There's not much in it, but the Crossrail station is beneath the new Western[1] Ticket Hall, which also houses the southern extension of the Thameslink platforms, and thus it's possible the walk to the tube platforms will be longer. And possibly more awkward if we require stepless. [1] That's western in Crossrail parlance, it's obviously to the south of the original tube/Thameslink ticket hall. -- Roland Perry |
future of HeX, was Secret map
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 07:58:52 on Wed, 12 Sep 2018, Clive D.W. Feather remarked: Heathrow Central to Kings Cross is 55 mins on the Tube, with no changes and 12 tph. Allow 2 mins waiting time, so 57 mins overall. On Crossrail, it will be 31 mins to Farringdon, 6tph. Allowing 5 mins waiting time, that's 36 mins. Then allow 10 mins to change to Thameslink, and say 3 mins journey time to Kings Cross, so it's about 49 mins total. Is it worth the hassle of changing trains with luggage, and up to triple the fare, to save just eight minutes? Depends on why you're going to Kings Cross. For a LNER train to Leeds, yes there's a big difference. But for places like Welwyn, Huntingdon, or Cambridge, you might as well change at Farringdon for a direct train. Agreed for all but Cambridge, where it's perhaps useful to think of the non-stop Cambridge services (the old Cruisers) as "LNER in waiting", and if we are shaving minutes off here and there they will be preferable to the semi-fast Thameslink trains which also take an age between arriving at SPILL and departing Finsbury Park. Why on earth would you get thameslink to KX? Get the H&S/Circle line, there's a train every 2 or 3 minutes. The change at Farringdon is likely to be much easier to Thameslink. Using LU will make the change longer, Why? The two lines are in parallel platforms at this point; the southbound Thameslink and westbound Circle effectively share a platform (albeit at different heights). There's not much in it, but the Crossrail station is beneath the new Western[1] Ticket Hall, which also houses the southern extension of the Thameslink platforms, and thus it's possible the walk to the tube platforms will be longer. Yes, it definitely will be, requiring a walk half the length of the long southbound TL platform. And possibly more awkward if we require stepless. Indeed so. I'm not clear if there might be a better interchange with the Circle line at Barbican, via the eastern Crossrail exit. [1] That's western in Crossrail parlance, it's obviously to the south of the original tube/Thameslink ticket hall. Yes, it might be clearer if it was called the Farringdon exit, with the eastern exit called the Barbican exit. |
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