https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/petrol-and-diesel-facing-ban-in-city-83t0f8zdt?shareToken=35a3d7d1a37b3103d0034424e71ee a77

On 01/11/2018 09:35, Recliner wrote:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/petrol-and-diesel-facing-ban-in-city-83t0f8zdt?shareToken=35a3d7d1a37b3103d0034424e71ee a77


Good luck with that one. Are there enough low emission buses, taxis,
delivery vehicles, and so on to make it even remotely practical?

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Graeme Wall wrote:
On 01/11/2018 09:35, Recliner wrote:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/petrol-and-diesel-facing-ban-in-city-83t0f8zdt?shareToken=35a3d7d1a37b3103d0034424e71ee a77


Good luck with that one. Are there enough low emission buses, taxis,
delivery vehicles, and so on to make it even remotely practical?


Buses and taxis, yes — all new London taxis are PHEVs, with quite a decent
zero emissions range. Some delivery vehicles are now electric (and I'm not
talking about milk floats), and presumably more will be by the time this
starts.

Presumably emergency vehicles will be exempted.

On 01/11/2018 10:05, Recliner wrote:
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 01/11/2018 09:35, Recliner wrote:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/petrol-and-diesel-facing-ban-in-city-83t0f8zdt?shareToken=35a3d7d1a37b3103d0034424e71ee a77


Good luck with that one. Are there enough low emission buses, taxis,
delivery vehicles, and so on to make it even remotely practical?


Buses and taxis, yes — all new London taxis are PHEVs, with quite a decent
zero emissions range.

So what happens when you walk up to an enclosed rank, such as
Paddington, wanting to go to the City and the first electric vehicle is
the fifth one in the rank?

I strongly suspect all taxis would be exempt.

--
Basil Jet - listening... Soft Cell. Soft Machine. Solomon Grey. Sonic
Youth. Sonique. Sonny Rollins. Sophie Ellis Bextor. Soul-Junk. Space.
Space (French). Spacehog. Spacemen 3. Spear Of Destiny. Spectres (UK).
Spiller feat Sophie Ellis Bextor. Spiritual Vibes. Spiritualized.
Splat!. Split Enz. Spoon. Spring King. Squeeze. Sroeng Santi.

Basil Jet wrote:
On 01/11/2018 10:05, Recliner wrote:
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 01/11/2018 09:35, Recliner wrote:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/petrol-and-diesel-facing-ban-in-city-83t0f8zdt?shareToken=35a3d7d1a37b3103d0034424e71ee a77


Good luck with that one. Are there enough low emission buses, taxis,
delivery vehicles, and so on to make it even remotely practical?


Buses and taxis, yes — all new London taxis are PHEVs, with quite a decent
zero emissions range.

So what happens when you walk up to an enclosed rank, such as
Paddington, wanting to go to the City and the first electric vehicle is
the fifth one in the rank?

I strongly suspect all taxis would be exempt.


That's certainly not the long-term intention, but I guess it's something to
be tested during the trial. One initial compromise could be that any taxi
can drop off in the zone, but only electric taxis can pick up. But I'm sure
their long-term plan is to stop any diesel taxis entering the zone at all.

On 02/11/2018 07:00, Recliner wrote:
Basil Jet wrote:
On 01/11/2018 10:05, Recliner wrote:
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 01/11/2018 09:35, Recliner wrote:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/petrol-and-diesel-facing-ban-in-city-83t0f8zdt?shareToken=35a3d7d1a37b3103d0034424e71ee a77


Good luck with that one. Are there enough low emission buses, taxis,
delivery vehicles, and so on to make it even remotely practical?


Buses and taxis, yes — all new London taxis are PHEVs, with quite a decent
zero emissions range.

So what happens when you walk up to an enclosed rank, such as
Paddington, wanting to go to the City and the first electric vehicle is
the fifth one in the rank?

I strongly suspect all taxis would be exempt.


That's certainly not the long-term intention, but I guess it's something to
be tested during the trial. One initial compromise could be that any taxi
can drop off in the zone, but only electric taxis can pick up. But I'm sure
their long-term plan is to stop any diesel taxis entering the zone at all.

And exactly how do you plan to police that using e.g. ANPR? Or are
there going to be cameras that do occupancy counting?

In message , at 09:54:43 on Thu, 1 Nov 2018,
Graeme Wall remarked:


https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/p...ing-ban-in-cit
y-83t0f8zdt?shareToken=35a3d7d1a37b3103d0034424e71ee a77

Good luck with that one. Are there enough low emission buses, taxis,
delivery vehicles, and so on to make it even remotely practical?

That was my first thought (and similar to earlier discussions about
similar zones in Central Oxford).

We have to assume that public sector vehicles (not just emergency ones,
but waste/litter collection, fixing streetlights, etc) will be exempt?

That just leaves similar vehicles operating in the private sector.
Hybrid Openreach and builders' vans, anyone?

[To be fair, BT claim to have been testing some low emissions vans for a
year now, but they would say that, wouldn't they]
--
Roland Perry

On 01/11/2018 10:14, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 09:54:43 on Thu, 1 Nov 2018,
Graeme Wall remarked:


https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/p...ing-ban-in-cit
y-83t0f8zdt?shareToken=35a3d7d1a37b3103d0034424e71ee a77

Good luck with that one.Â* Are there enough low emission buses, taxis,
delivery vehicles, and so on to make it even remotely practical?

That was my first thought (and similar to earlier discussions about
similar zones in Central Oxford).

We have to assume that public sector vehicles (not just emergency ones,
but waste/litter collection, fixing streetlights, etc) will be exempt?

That just leaves similar vehicles operating in the private sector.
Hybrid Openreach and builders' vans, anyone?

[To be fair, BT claim to have been testing some low emissions vans for a
Â*year now, but they would say that, wouldn't they]

The problem is for those of us who live just outside (in my case East)
of the City and have to transit it as part of the beginning of a longer
journey (which is not reasonably possible to complete on public
transport - for example I have family in rural areas on the
England/Wales borders).

Yes, the inner ringroad can be followed, but given the woeful state of
traffic in London, any further limitations of options could cause utter
chaos in the case of a single breakdown or accident.

What we need to prevent is regular journeys, not all journeys - that
would also cover emergency vehicles, people having to fix things and so
on, but not daily deliveries or commuting to work.

In message , at 11:42:01 on Thu, 1 Nov
2018, Someone Somewhere remarked:
On 01/11/2018 10:14, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 09:54:43 on Thu, 1 Nov
2018, Graeme Wall remarked:


https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/p...ing-ban-in-cit
y-83t0f8zdt?shareToken=35a3d7d1a37b3103d0034424e71ee a77

Good luck with that one.* Are there enough low emission buses,
taxis, delivery vehicles, and so on to make it even remotely practical?
That was my first thought (and similar to earlier discussions about
similar zones in Central Oxford).
We have to assume that public sector vehicles (not just emergency
ones, but waste/litter collection, fixing streetlights, etc) will be
exempt?
That just leaves similar vehicles operating in the private sector.
Hybrid Openreach and builders' vans, anyone?
[To be fair, BT claim to have been testing some low emissions vans
for a
*year now, but they would say that, wouldn't they]

The problem is for those of us who live just outside (in my case East)
of the City and have to transit it as part of the beginning of a longer
journey (which is not reasonably possible to complete on public
transport - for example I have family in rural areas on the
England/Wales borders).

Yes, the inner ringroad can be followed, but given the woeful state of
traffic in London, any further limitations of options could cause utter
chaos in the case of a single breakdown or accident.

What we need to prevent is regular journeys, not all journeys - that
would also cover emergency vehicles, people having to fix things and so
on, but not daily deliveries or commuting to work.

I can definitely relate to this "occasional use" exemption. There are
many driving restrictions in place which are primarily aimed at regular
drivers. If I was to venture inside the N/S circulars in my diesel car,
or use the Dartford Crossing, one or twice a year, would it really break
the bank to waive the fee?
--
Roland Perry

On Thu, 1 Nov 2018 15:08:19 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 11:42:01 on Thu, 1 Nov
2018, Someone Somewhere remarked:
On 01/11/2018 10:14, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 09:54:43 on Thu, 1 Nov
2018, Graeme Wall remarked:


https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/p...ing-ban-in-cit
y-83t0f8zdt?shareToken=35a3d7d1a37b3103d0034424e71ee a77

Good luck with that one.* Are there enough low emission buses,
taxis, delivery vehicles, and so on to make it even remotely practical?
That was my first thought (and similar to earlier discussions about
similar zones in Central Oxford).
We have to assume that public sector vehicles (not just emergency
ones, but waste/litter collection, fixing streetlights, etc) will be
exempt?
That just leaves similar vehicles operating in the private sector.
Hybrid Openreach and builders' vans, anyone?
[To be fair, BT claim to have been testing some low emissions vans
for a
*year now, but they would say that, wouldn't they]

The problem is for those of us who live just outside (in my case East)
of the City and have to transit it as part of the beginning of a longer
journey (which is not reasonably possible to complete on public
transport - for example I have family in rural areas on the
England/Wales borders).

Yes, the inner ringroad can be followed, but given the woeful state of
traffic in London, any further limitations of options could cause utter
chaos in the case of a single breakdown or accident.

What we need to prevent is regular journeys, not all journeys - that
would also cover emergency vehicles, people having to fix things and so
on, but not daily deliveries or commuting to work.

I can definitely relate to this "occasional use" exemption. There are
many driving restrictions in place which are primarily aimed at regular
drivers. If I was to venture inside the N/S circulars in my diesel car,
or use the Dartford Crossing, one or twice a year, would it really break
the bank to waive the fee?

Probably not BUT where do you set the limit? In any case, this is
not about raking in money (even though it might do so). It's about
air quality and therefore keeping as many "polluting vehicles" out
is/should be the aim.