New timetables online: Park Royal parly to be diverted
On 24/11/2018 20:30, Recliner wrote:
That means the daily Chiltern service to Paddington will also finish soon. Apparently it will be diverted to West Ealing at the December timetable change, but I can't find it at all in the new timetables. https://www.networkrail.co.uk/runnin...ail-timetable/ -- Basil Jet - listening... Soft Cell. Soft Machine. Solomon Grey. Sonic Youth. Sonique. Sonny Rollins. Sophie Ellis Bextor. Soul-Junk. Space. Space (French). Spacehog. Spacemen 3. Spear Of Destiny. Spectres (UK). Spiller feat Sophie Ellis Bextor. Spiritual Vibes. Spiritualized. Splat!. Split Enz. Spoon. Spring King. Squeeze. Sroeng Santi. |
New timetables online: Park Royal parly to be diverted
Basil Jet wrote:
On 24/11/2018 20:30, Recliner wrote: That means the daily Chiltern service to Paddington will also finish soon. Apparently it will be diverted to West Ealing at the December timetable change, but I can't find it at all in the new timetables. https://www.networkrail.co.uk/runnin...ail-timetable/ I suppose that makes sense in terms of maintaining Chiltern drivers' route knowledge for diversions. However, I hope that Chiltern's request for a reopened line into the new OOC Crossrail/HS2/GWR station comes to fruition, so it can run an hourly service to it from Milton Keynes via Aylesbury. |
New timetables online: Park Royal parly to be diverted
On 25/11/2018 00:55, Recliner wrote:
Basil Jet wrote: On 24/11/2018 20:30, Recliner wrote: That means the daily Chiltern service to Paddington will also finish soon. Apparently it will be diverted to West Ealing at the December timetable change, but I can't find it at all in the new timetables. https://www.networkrail.co.uk/runnin...ail-timetable/ I suppose that makes sense in terms of maintaining Chiltern drivers' route knowledge for diversions. However, I hope that Chiltern's request for a reopened line into the new OOC Crossrail/HS2/GWR station comes to fruition, so it can run an hourly service to it from Milton Keynes via Aylesbury. It seems like a stupid place to terminate - I can't see many people getting trains in from High Wycombe to change onto HS2 for Birmingham. Crossrail is just a glorified tube line - although I suppose the other Chiltern trains terminate at a station with only one tube line. I'd rather they put a curve through the industrial site car park to link to the line that goes near Willesden Junction before heading south to Clapham Junction and further. -- Basil Jet - listening... Soft Cell. Soft Machine. Solomon Grey. Sonic Youth. Sonique. Sonny Rollins. Sophie Ellis Bextor. Soul-Junk. Space. Space (French). Spacehog. Spacemen 3. Spear Of Destiny. Spectres (UK). Spiller feat Sophie Ellis Bextor. Spiritual Vibes. Spiritualized. Splat!. Split Enz. Spoon. Spring King. Squeeze. Sroeng Santi. |
New timetables online: Park Royal parly to be diverted
Basil Jet wrote:
On 25/11/2018 00:55, Recliner wrote: Basil Jet wrote: On 24/11/2018 20:30, Recliner wrote: That means the daily Chiltern service to Paddington will also finish soon. Apparently it will be diverted to West Ealing at the December timetable change, but I can't find it at all in the new timetables. https://www.networkrail.co.uk/runnin...ail-timetable/ I suppose that makes sense in terms of maintaining Chiltern drivers' route knowledge for diversions. However, I hope that Chiltern's request for a reopened line into the new OOC Crossrail/HS2/GWR station comes to fruition, so it can run an hourly service to it from Milton Keynes via Aylesbury. It seems like a stupid place to terminate - I can't see many people getting trains in from High Wycombe to change onto HS2 for Birmingham. Crossrail is just a glorified tube line - although I suppose the other Chiltern trains terminate at a station with only one tube line. It's Crossrail, including the Heathrow link, that's their main target. The HS2 link would have less relevance. The connection to the GWR might be more important for some. Crossrail is much more than a glorified tube line. I'd rather they put a curve through the industrial site car park to link to the line that goes near Willesden Junction before heading south to Clapham Junction and further. The West London line will also have an OOC station, as will the Richmond line. OOC will be a major interchange station that may also get a Central Line station. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_...ailway_station |
New timetables online: Park Royal parly to be diverted
On 25/11/18 01:40, Basil Jet wrote:
On 25/11/2018 00:55, Recliner wrote: However, I hope that Chiltern's request for a reopened line into the new OOC Crossrail/HS2/GWR station comes to fruition, so it can run an hourly service to it from Milton Keynes via Aylesbury. It seems like a stupid place to terminate - I can't see many people getting trains in from High Wycombe to change onto HS2 for Birmingham. Crossrail is just a glorified tube line - although I suppose the other Chiltern trains terminate at a station with only one tube line. Connections to Heathrow and the GWML would be useful. At the moment getting to Heathrow from Chiltern stations is a pain and it's easier and faster to drive or get a coach. Roger |
New timetables online: Park Royal parly to be diverted
On 25/11/2018 20:21, Roger Lynn wrote:
On 25/11/18 01:40, Basil Jet wrote: On 25/11/2018 00:55, Recliner wrote: However, I hope that Chiltern's request for a reopened line into the new OOC Crossrail/HS2/GWR station comes to fruition, so it can run an hourly service to it from Milton Keynes via Aylesbury. It seems like a stupid place to terminate - I can't see many people getting trains in from High Wycombe to change onto HS2 for Birmingham. Crossrail is just a glorified tube line - although I suppose the other Chiltern trains terminate at a station with only one tube line. Connections to Heathrow and the GWML would be useful. At the moment getting to Heathrow from Chiltern stations is a pain and it's easier and faster to drive or get a coach. I wasn't suggesting it shouldn't go to OOC - just that it should go on to Clapham Junction afterwards, giving Chiltern stations a one change journey to Gatwick and half the country. -- Basil Jet - listening... Soft Cell. Soft Machine. Solomon Grey. Sonic Youth. Sonique. Sonny Rollins. Sophie Ellis Bextor. Soul-Junk. Space. Space (French). Spacehog. Spacemen 3. Spear Of Destiny. Spectres (UK). Spiller feat Sophie Ellis Bextor. Spiritual Vibes. Spiritualized. Splat!. Split Enz. Spoon. Spring King. Squeeze. Sroeng Santi. |
New timetables online: Park Royal parly to be diverted
Basil Jet wrote:
On 25/11/2018 20:21, Roger Lynn wrote: On 25/11/18 01:40, Basil Jet wrote: On 25/11/2018 00:55, Recliner wrote: However, I hope that Chiltern's request for a reopened line into the new OOC Crossrail/HS2/GWR station comes to fruition, so it can run an hourly service to it from Milton Keynes via Aylesbury. It seems like a stupid place to terminate - I can't see many people getting trains in from High Wycombe to change onto HS2 for Birmingham. Crossrail is just a glorified tube line - although I suppose the other Chiltern trains terminate at a station with only one tube line. Connections to Heathrow and the GWML would be useful. At the moment getting to Heathrow from Chiltern stations is a pain and it's easier and faster to drive or get a coach. I wasn't suggesting it shouldn't go to OOC - just that it should go on to Clapham Junction afterwards, giving Chiltern stations a one change journey to Gatwick and half the country. I don't think there would be any route beyond OOC to the West London line. The Crossrail depot is in the way. |
New timetables online: Park Royal parly to be diverted
On Sun, 25 Nov 2018 22:54:58 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote: Basil Jet wrote: On 25/11/2018 20:21, Roger Lynn wrote: On 25/11/18 01:40, Basil Jet wrote: On 25/11/2018 00:55, Recliner wrote: However, I hope that Chiltern's request for a reopened line into the new OOC Crossrail/HS2/GWR station comes to fruition, so it can run an hourly service to it from Milton Keynes via Aylesbury. It seems like a stupid place to terminate - I can't see many people getting trains in from High Wycombe to change onto HS2 for Birmingham. Crossrail is just a glorified tube line - although I suppose the other Chiltern trains terminate at a station with only one tube line. Connections to Heathrow and the GWML would be useful. At the moment getting to Heathrow from Chiltern stations is a pain and it's easier and faster to drive or get a coach. I wasn't suggesting it shouldn't go to OOC - just that it should go on to Clapham Junction afterwards, giving Chiltern stations a one change journey to Gatwick and half the country. I don't think there would be any route beyond OOC to the West London line. The Crossrail depot is in the way. Round the north side meeting the WLL on the south side of Willesden Junction IIRC. |
New timetables online: Park Royal parly to be diverted
Charles Ellson wrote:
On Sun, 25 Nov 2018 22:54:58 -0000 (UTC), Recliner wrote: Basil Jet wrote: On 25/11/2018 20:21, Roger Lynn wrote: On 25/11/18 01:40, Basil Jet wrote: On 25/11/2018 00:55, Recliner wrote: However, I hope that Chiltern's request for a reopened line into the new OOC Crossrail/HS2/GWR station comes to fruition, so it can run an hourly service to it from Milton Keynes via Aylesbury. It seems like a stupid place to terminate - I can't see many people getting trains in from High Wycombe to change onto HS2 for Birmingham. Crossrail is just a glorified tube line - although I suppose the other Chiltern trains terminate at a station with only one tube line. Connections to Heathrow and the GWML would be useful. At the moment getting to Heathrow from Chiltern stations is a pain and it's easier and faster to drive or get a coach. I wasn't suggesting it shouldn't go to OOC - just that it should go on to Clapham Junction afterwards, giving Chiltern stations a one change journey to Gatwick and half the country. I don't think there would be any route beyond OOC to the West London line. The Crossrail depot is in the way. Round the north side meeting the WLL on the south side of Willesden Junction IIRC. That would miss the OOC station altogether. It would have to cross the canal and join the WLL on the north side. It would be a much more expensive project, and there's probably no platform space for the trains to reverse at CLJ anyway. Given the choice, terminating at OOC make much more sense. |
New timetables online: Park Royal parly to be diverted
On 25/11/2018 23:11, Recliner wrote:
Charles Ellson wrote: On Sun, 25 Nov 2018 22:54:58 -0000 (UTC), Recliner wrote: Basil Jet wrote: On 25/11/2018 20:21, Roger Lynn wrote: On 25/11/18 01:40, Basil Jet wrote: On 25/11/2018 00:55, Recliner wrote: However, I hope that Chiltern's request for a reopened line into the new OOC Crossrail/HS2/GWR station comes to fruition, so it can run an hourly service to it from Milton Keynes via Aylesbury. It seems like a stupid place to terminate - I can't see many people getting trains in from High Wycombe to change onto HS2 for Birmingham. Crossrail is just a glorified tube line - although I suppose the other Chiltern trains terminate at a station with only one tube line. Connections to Heathrow and the GWML would be useful. At the moment getting to Heathrow from Chiltern stations is a pain and it's easier and faster to drive or get a coach. I wasn't suggesting it shouldn't go to OOC - just that it should go on to Clapham Junction afterwards, giving Chiltern stations a one change journey to Gatwick and half the country. I don't think there would be any route beyond OOC to the West London line. The Crossrail depot is in the way. Round the north side meeting the WLL on the south side of Willesden Junction IIRC. That would miss the OOC station altogether. It would have to cross the canal and join the WLL on the north side. No, it would require a short curve in the vicinity of Acton Wells Junction. (Admittedly levels might be an issue.) The curve from Acton Wells Junction to the southbound WLL is already there, crossing the canal twice, and not currently used by any passenger trains. -- Basil Jet - listening... Soft Cell. Soft Machine. Solomon Grey. Sonic Youth. Sonique. Sonny Rollins. Sophie Ellis Bextor. Soul-Junk. Space. Space (French). Spacehog. Spacemen 3. Spear Of Destiny. Spectres (UK). Spiller feat Sophie Ellis Bextor. Spiritual Vibes. Spiritualized. Splat!. Split Enz. Spoon. Spring King. Squeeze. Sroeng Santi. |
New timetables online: Park Royal parly to be diverted
Basil Jet wrote:
On 25/11/2018 23:11, Recliner wrote: Charles Ellson wrote: On Sun, 25 Nov 2018 22:54:58 -0000 (UTC), Recliner wrote: Basil Jet wrote: On 25/11/2018 20:21, Roger Lynn wrote: On 25/11/18 01:40, Basil Jet wrote: On 25/11/2018 00:55, Recliner wrote: However, I hope that Chiltern's request for a reopened line into the new OOC Crossrail/HS2/GWR station comes to fruition, so it can run an hourly service to it from Milton Keynes via Aylesbury. It seems like a stupid place to terminate - I can't see many people getting trains in from High Wycombe to change onto HS2 for Birmingham. Crossrail is just a glorified tube line - although I suppose the other Chiltern trains terminate at a station with only one tube line. Connections to Heathrow and the GWML would be useful. At the moment getting to Heathrow from Chiltern stations is a pain and it's easier and faster to drive or get a coach. I wasn't suggesting it shouldn't go to OOC - just that it should go on to Clapham Junction afterwards, giving Chiltern stations a one change journey to Gatwick and half the country. I don't think there would be any route beyond OOC to the West London line. The Crossrail depot is in the way. Round the north side meeting the WLL on the south side of Willesden Junction IIRC. That would miss the OOC station altogether. It would have to cross the canal and join the WLL on the north side. No, it would require a short curve in the vicinity of Acton Wells Junction. (Admittedly levels might be an issue.) The curve from Acton Wells Junction to the southbound WLL is already there, crossing the canal twice, and not currently used by any passenger trains. The Richmond line crosses the former GWR line to Birmingham at right angles, so there's no easy connection. And if you cut through the Boden building and Waitrose to get a connection, you'd miss the more important OOC station. |
New timetables online: Park Royal parly to be diverted
On Mon, 26 Nov 2018 01:28:03 +0000, Basil Jet
wrote: On 25/11/2018 23:11, Recliner wrote: Charles Ellson wrote: On Sun, 25 Nov 2018 22:54:58 -0000 (UTC), Recliner wrote: Basil Jet wrote: On 25/11/2018 20:21, Roger Lynn wrote: On 25/11/18 01:40, Basil Jet wrote: On 25/11/2018 00:55, Recliner wrote: However, I hope that Chiltern's request for a reopened line into the new OOC Crossrail/HS2/GWR station comes to fruition, so it can run an hourly service to it from Milton Keynes via Aylesbury. It seems like a stupid place to terminate - I can't see many people getting trains in from High Wycombe to change onto HS2 for Birmingham. Crossrail is just a glorified tube line - although I suppose the other Chiltern trains terminate at a station with only one tube line. Connections to Heathrow and the GWML would be useful. At the moment getting to Heathrow from Chiltern stations is a pain and it's easier and faster to drive or get a coach. I wasn't suggesting it shouldn't go to OOC - just that it should go on to Clapham Junction afterwards, giving Chiltern stations a one change journey to Gatwick and half the country. I don't think there would be any route beyond OOC to the West London line. The Crossrail depot is in the way. Round the north side meeting the WLL on the south side of Willesden Junction IIRC. That would miss the OOC station altogether. It would have to cross the canal and join the WLL on the north side. No, it would require a short curve in the vicinity of Acton Wells Junction. (Admittedly levels might be an issue.) The curve from Acton Wells Junction to the southbound WLL is already there, crossing the canal twice, and not currently used by any passenger trains. It would be a much more expensive project, and there's probably no platform space for the trains to reverse at CLJ anyway. Platforms 16-17 seem to be two of the least used platforms at CLJ, the main daytime user being the mostly hourly SN service to/from WFJ/MKC along with the rush hour SN workings to/from Shepherds Bush and some odd LO workings. For much of the day you could die of boredom waiting for a train on those two platforms. |
New timetables online: Park Royal parly to be diverted
On Mon, 26 Nov 2018 02:09:29 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote: Basil Jet wrote: On 25/11/2018 23:11, Recliner wrote: Charles Ellson wrote: On Sun, 25 Nov 2018 22:54:58 -0000 (UTC), Recliner wrote: Basil Jet wrote: On 25/11/2018 20:21, Roger Lynn wrote: On 25/11/18 01:40, Basil Jet wrote: On 25/11/2018 00:55, Recliner wrote: However, I hope that Chiltern's request for a reopened line into the new OOC Crossrail/HS2/GWR station comes to fruition, so it can run an hourly service to it from Milton Keynes via Aylesbury. It seems like a stupid place to terminate - I can't see many people getting trains in from High Wycombe to change onto HS2 for Birmingham. Crossrail is just a glorified tube line - although I suppose the other Chiltern trains terminate at a station with only one tube line. Connections to Heathrow and the GWML would be useful. At the moment getting to Heathrow from Chiltern stations is a pain and it's easier and faster to drive or get a coach. I wasn't suggesting it shouldn't go to OOC - just that it should go on to Clapham Junction afterwards, giving Chiltern stations a one change journey to Gatwick and half the country. I don't think there would be any route beyond OOC to the West London line. The Crossrail depot is in the way. Round the north side meeting the WLL on the south side of Willesden Junction IIRC. That would miss the OOC station altogether. It would have to cross the canal and join the WLL on the north side. No, it would require a short curve in the vicinity of Acton Wells Junction. (Admittedly levels might be an issue.) The curve from Acton Wells Junction to the southbound WLL is already there, crossing the canal twice, and not currently used by any passenger trains. The Richmond line crosses the former GWR line to Birmingham at right angles, so there's no easy connection. And if you cut through the Boden building and Waitrose to get a connection, you'd miss the more important OOC station. High Wycombe - South Ruislip - Northolt - Drayton Green - Ealing Broadway - Acton Main Line - round the NW side of OOC (or whatever is there after rearrangement connected with HS2) - Willesden Relief/SW Lines - West London Line ? IIRC at least a couple of the cunning plan maps for post-HS2 Old Oak Common involve platforms/routes a bloody long walk[TM] further north-ish of the main station to deal with WCML(NW)-WLL(S), NLL(S)-WLL(S) and NLL(S)-NLL(N) trains. Part of the above route (SW lines) would pass through what was the platformed area of Willesden Junction until the 1960s. |
New timetables online: Park Royal parly to be diverted
Charles Ellson wrote:
On Mon, 26 Nov 2018 02:09:29 -0000 (UTC), Recliner wrote: Basil Jet wrote: On 25/11/2018 23:11, Recliner wrote: Charles Ellson wrote: On Sun, 25 Nov 2018 22:54:58 -0000 (UTC), Recliner wrote: Basil Jet wrote: On 25/11/2018 20:21, Roger Lynn wrote: On 25/11/18 01:40, Basil Jet wrote: On 25/11/2018 00:55, Recliner wrote: However, I hope that Chiltern's request for a reopened line into the new OOC Crossrail/HS2/GWR station comes to fruition, so it can run an hourly service to it from Milton Keynes via Aylesbury. It seems like a stupid place to terminate - I can't see many people getting trains in from High Wycombe to change onto HS2 for Birmingham. Crossrail is just a glorified tube line - although I suppose the other Chiltern trains terminate at a station with only one tube line. Connections to Heathrow and the GWML would be useful. At the moment getting to Heathrow from Chiltern stations is a pain and it's easier and faster to drive or get a coach. I wasn't suggesting it shouldn't go to OOC - just that it should go on to Clapham Junction afterwards, giving Chiltern stations a one change journey to Gatwick and half the country. I don't think there would be any route beyond OOC to the West London line. The Crossrail depot is in the way. Round the north side meeting the WLL on the south side of Willesden Junction IIRC. That would miss the OOC station altogether. It would have to cross the canal and join the WLL on the north side. No, it would require a short curve in the vicinity of Acton Wells Junction. (Admittedly levels might be an issue.) The curve from Acton Wells Junction to the southbound WLL is already there, crossing the canal twice, and not currently used by any passenger trains. The Richmond line crosses the former GWR line to Birmingham at right angles, so there's no easy connection. And if you cut through the Boden building and Waitrose to get a connection, you'd miss the more important OOC station. High Wycombe - South Ruislip - Northolt - Drayton Green - Ealing Broadway - Acton Main Line - round the NW side of OOC (or whatever is there after rearrangement connected with HS2) - Willesden Relief/SW Lines - West London Line ? Yes, that would work, apart from the lack of paths on the GWR relief lines when Crossrail is in full operation. The journey would also be very slow. The direct route on the old GWR Main line to Birmingham would be much shorter, quicker and independent of other lines. It would provide a direct, fast, reliable, dedicated route to dedicated Chiltern bay platforms at OOC, just next to the HS2 and Crossrail platforms. That's why it's the route Chiltern wants, not an incredibly slow, meandering, congested route to CLJ, via an inconvenient station near OOC. Those Chiltern passengers who do want to get to CLJ can do so via a change at OOC. IIRC at least a couple of the cunning plan maps for post-HS2 Old Oak Common involve platforms/routes a bloody long walk[TM] further north-ish of the main station to deal with WCML(NW)-WLL(S), NLL(S)-WLL(S) and NLL(S)-NLL(N) trains. Which is partly why it's not what Chiltern wants. Part of the above route (SW lines) would pass through what was the platformed area of Willesden Junction until the 1960s. There may be scope for a long moving walkway or airport-style shuttle between Willesden Junction and OOC. That would make OOC an even more important interchange station. |
New timetables online: Park Royal parly to be diverted
On 25/11/2018 20:21, Roger Lynn wrote:
On 25/11/18 01:40, Basil Jet wrote: On 25/11/2018 00:55, Recliner wrote: However, I hope that Chiltern's request for a reopened line into the new OOC Crossrail/HS2/GWR station comes to fruition, so it can run an hourly service to it from Milton Keynes via Aylesbury. It seems like a stupid place to terminate - I can't see many people getting trains in from High Wycombe to change onto HS2 for Birmingham. Crossrail is just a glorified tube line - although I suppose the other Chiltern trains terminate at a station with only one tube line. Connections to Heathrow and the GWML would be useful. At the moment getting to Heathrow from Chiltern stations is a pain and it's easier and faster to drive or get a coach. Getting to Heathrow from anywhere to the west is a pain. -- Graeme Wall This account not read. |
New timetables online: Park Royal parly to be diverted
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 25/11/2018 20:21, Roger Lynn wrote: On 25/11/18 01:40, Basil Jet wrote: On 25/11/2018 00:55, Recliner wrote: However, I hope that Chiltern's request for a reopened line into the new OOC Crossrail/HS2/GWR station comes to fruition, so it can run an hourly service to it from Milton Keynes via Aylesbury. It seems like a stupid place to terminate - I can't see many people getting trains in from High Wycombe to change onto HS2 for Birmingham. Crossrail is just a glorified tube line - although I suppose the other Chiltern trains terminate at a station with only one tube line. Connections to Heathrow and the GWML would be useful. At the moment getting to Heathrow from Chiltern stations is a pain and it's easier and faster to drive or get a coach. Getting to Heathrow from anywhere to the west is a pain. Yes. Various rail links to the west and southwest have been under discussion for decades, and still are. The station under T5 awaits the line west, but construction still hasn't begun. Crossrail will help a little, but it's not enough. |
Quote:
Chiltern trains to be given paths on the GW main line between West Ealing and Acton Yard. The route from Acton Yard to Clapham Junction already exists and is a regular freight route. No new loop would be needed. |
New timetables online: Park Royal parly to be diverted
"Recliner" wrote in message
... Getting to Heathrow from anywhere to the west is a pain. Yes. Various rail links to the west and southwest have been under discussion for decades, and still are. The station under T5 awaits the line west, but construction still hasn't begun. Crossrail will help a little, but it's not enough. I'm not sure why a north-to-west facing curve was never built between the Heathrow spur and the GWML, to allow trains from Reading, Oxford, Bristol and south Wales to reach Heathrow - even if it involved a change to a Reading-Heathrow shuttle. There were proposals at one time to build a spur from the Reading-Ascot-Waterloo line near Feltham to serve Heathrow from that direction, but I don't know whether that is still on the cards. |
New timetables online: Park Royal parly to be diverted
On 26/11/2018 03:29, Recliner wrote:
There may be scope for a long moving walkway or airport-style shuttle between Willesden Junction and OOC. That would make OOC an even more important interchange station. It's about 900 metres. At 9km/h that's 6 minutes on a walkway. You'd have to fit it with toilets :-) -- Basil Jet - listening... Soft Cell. Soft Machine. Solomon Grey. Sonic Youth. Sonique. Sonny Rollins. Sophie Ellis Bextor. Soul-Junk. Space. Space (French). Spacehog. Spacemen 3. Spear Of Destiny. Spectres (UK). Spiller feat Sophie Ellis Bextor. Spiritual Vibes. Spiritualized. Splat!. Split Enz. Spoon. Spring King. Squeeze. Sroeng Santi. |
New timetables online: Park Royal parly to be diverted
On 26/11/2018 02:09, Recliner wrote:
Basil Jet wrote: On 25/11/2018 23:11, Recliner wrote: Charles Ellson wrote: On Sun, 25 Nov 2018 22:54:58 -0000 (UTC), Recliner wrote: Basil Jet wrote: On 25/11/2018 20:21, Roger Lynn wrote: On 25/11/18 01:40, Basil Jet wrote: On 25/11/2018 00:55, Recliner wrote: However, I hope that Chiltern's request for a reopened line into the new OOC Crossrail/HS2/GWR station comes to fruition, so it can run an hourly service to it from Milton Keynes via Aylesbury. It seems like a stupid place to terminate - I can't see many people getting trains in from High Wycombe to change onto HS2 for Birmingham. Crossrail is just a glorified tube line - although I suppose the other Chiltern trains terminate at a station with only one tube line. Connections to Heathrow and the GWML would be useful. At the moment getting to Heathrow from Chiltern stations is a pain and it's easier and faster to drive or get a coach. I wasn't suggesting it shouldn't go to OOC - just that it should go on to Clapham Junction afterwards, giving Chiltern stations a one change journey to Gatwick and half the country. I don't think there would be any route beyond OOC to the West London line. The Crossrail depot is in the way. Round the north side meeting the WLL on the south side of Willesden Junction IIRC. That would miss the OOC station altogether. It would have to cross the canal and join the WLL on the north side. No, it would require a short curve in the vicinity of Acton Wells Junction. (Admittedly levels might be an issue.) The curve from Acton Wells Junction to the southbound WLL is already there, crossing the canal twice, and not currently used by any passenger trains. The Richmond line crosses the former GWR line to Birmingham at right angles, so there's no easy connection. And if you cut through the Boden building and Waitrose to get a connection, you'd miss the more important OOC station. You massively overestimate the land needed for the curve. You only need the car park of the Boden building for a curve the same radius as the one in Bicester. -- Basil Jet - listening... St. Vincent. Star Park. Stealing Sheep. Stephen Mallinder. Stereolab. Steve Harley & Cockney Rebel. Steve Mackay. Steve Mason. Steve Reich. Steve Wynn. Stiff Little Fingers. Stonephace. Stump. Sub Sub. Subway Sect. Suede. Sufjan Stevens. Sugar. Suicidal Tendencies. Suicide. Sun City Girls & David Oliphant. Sun Ra. Sunday Painters. Swans. Sweet Baboo. Swell Maps. Swing Out Sister. Swollen Monkeys. Syd Barrett. Sylvan Esso. |
New timetables online: Park Royal parly to be diverted
On 26/11/2018 11:59, NY wrote:
"Recliner" wrote in message ... Getting to Heathrow from anywhere to the west is a pain. Yes. Various rail links to the west and southwest have been under discussion for decades, and still are. The station under T5 awaits the line west, but construction still hasn't begun. Crossrail will help a little, but it's not enough. I'm not sure why a north-to-west facing curve was never built between the Heathrow spur and the GWML, to allow trains from Reading, Oxford, Bristol and south Wales to reach Heathrow - even if it involved a change to a Reading-Heathrow shuttle. There were proposals at one time to build a spur from the Reading-Ascot-Waterloo line near Feltham to serve Heathrow from that direction, but I don't know whether that is still on the cards. It was never really on the cards, along with the extension of the Slough-Windsor service to Heathrow and several other variants. -- Graeme Wall This account not read. |
New timetables online: Park Royal parly to be diverted
On Mon, 26 Nov 2018 10:30:16 +0000, Robin9
wrote: 'Basil Jet[_4_ Wrote: No, it would require a short curve in the vicinity of Acton Wells Junction. (Admittedly levels might be an issue.) The curve from Acton Wells Junction to the southbound WLL is already there, crossing the canal twice, and not currently used by any passenger trains. -- Basil Jet . In fact, all it requires is Old Oak to be bypassed altogether, and Chiltern trains to be given paths on the GW main line between West Ealing and Acton Yard. Those paths don't exist post-Crossrail. It's why the Greenford shuttle was cut back to the new bay platform at West Ealing. Chiltern wants to use its existing direct, fast, otherwise unused route to dedicated platform(s) at OOC, not take a slow, congested route, with flat junctions, shared with other GWR Relief line and WLL services to CLJ. This would provide a way of not only connecting to Crossrail, HS2, the GWR and the WLL, but increasing Chiltern services without overloading Marylebone. The route from Acton Yard to Clapham Junction already exists and is a regular freight route. No new loop would be needed. |
New timetables online: Park Royal parly to be diverted
In message , at
11:59:03 on Mon, 26 Nov 2018, NY remarked: Yes. Various rail links to the west and southwest have been under discussion for decades, and still are. The station under T5 awaits the line west, but construction still hasn't begun. Crossrail will help a little, but it's not enough. I'm not sure why a north-to-west facing curve was never built between the Heathrow spur and the GWML, to allow trains from Reading, Oxford, Bristol and south Wales to reach Heathrow - even if it involved a change to a Reading-Heathrow shuttle. There were proposals at one time to build a spur from the Reading-Ascot-Waterloo line near Feltham to serve Heathrow from that direction, but I don't know whether that is still on the cards. Both such routes were hailed in BAA's annual report 1998, as well as HEx to St Pancras in addition to PAD. Is it any wonder I'm a bit of a caller-out of rail industry vapourware? -- Roland Perry |
New timetables online: Park Royal parly to be diverted
Basil Jet wrote:
On 26/11/2018 02:09, Recliner wrote: Basil Jet wrote: On 25/11/2018 23:11, Recliner wrote: Charles Ellson wrote: On Sun, 25 Nov 2018 22:54:58 -0000 (UTC), Recliner wrote: Basil Jet wrote: On 25/11/2018 20:21, Roger Lynn wrote: On 25/11/18 01:40, Basil Jet wrote: On 25/11/2018 00:55, Recliner wrote: However, I hope that Chiltern's request for a reopened line into the new OOC Crossrail/HS2/GWR station comes to fruition, so it can run an hourly service to it from Milton Keynes via Aylesbury. It seems like a stupid place to terminate - I can't see many people getting trains in from High Wycombe to change onto HS2 for Birmingham. Crossrail is just a glorified tube line - although I suppose the other Chiltern trains terminate at a station with only one tube line. Connections to Heathrow and the GWML would be useful. At the moment getting to Heathrow from Chiltern stations is a pain and it's easier and faster to drive or get a coach. I wasn't suggesting it shouldn't go to OOC - just that it should go on to Clapham Junction afterwards, giving Chiltern stations a one change journey to Gatwick and half the country. I don't think there would be any route beyond OOC to the West London line. The Crossrail depot is in the way. Round the north side meeting the WLL on the south side of Willesden Junction IIRC. That would miss the OOC station altogether. It would have to cross the canal and join the WLL on the north side. No, it would require a short curve in the vicinity of Acton Wells Junction. (Admittedly levels might be an issue.) The curve from Acton Wells Junction to the southbound WLL is already there, crossing the canal twice, and not currently used by any passenger trains. The Richmond line crosses the former GWR line to Birmingham at right angles, so there's no easy connection. And if you cut through the Boden building and Waitrose to get a connection, you'd miss the more important OOC station. You massively overestimate the land needed for the curve. You only need the car park of the Boden building for a curve the same radius as the one in Bicester. I rather think you *underestimate* the land required. Comparing your proposed curve, the other curves in the Old Oak/Willesden area, and the Bicester curve, I really don’t think it’ll fit where you want it to. Anna Noyd-Dryver |
New timetables online: Park Royal parly to be diverted
On 26/11/2018 15:25, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
Basil Jet wrote: On 26/11/2018 02:09, Recliner wrote: The Richmond line crosses the former GWR line to Birmingham at right angles, so there's no easy connection. And if you cut through the Boden building and Waitrose to get a connection, you'd miss the more important OOC station. You massively overestimate the land needed for the curve. You only need the car park of the Boden building for a curve the same radius as the one in Bicester. I rather think you *underestimate* the land required. Comparing your proposed curve, the other curves in the Old Oak/Willesden area, and the Bicester curve, I really don’t think it’ll fit where you want it to. Have you measured it on the screen with a circular object? I have, twice, at two different scales using two different circular objects. Incidentally, GWR use the Paddington - Park Royal - Ealing - Paddington for turning trains that have ended up the wrong way round. How will they turn trains after the line is severed, or will the line be too busy to even think about it? -- Basil Jet - listening... St. Vincent. Star Park. Stealing Sheep. Stephen Mallinder. Stereolab. Steve Harley & Cockney Rebel. Steve Mackay. Steve Mason. Steve Reich. Steve Wynn. Stiff Little Fingers. Stonephace. Stump. Sub Sub. Subway Sect. Suede. Sufjan Stevens. Sugar. Suicidal Tendencies. Suicide. Sun City Girls & David Oliphant. Sun Ra. Sunday Painters. Swans. Sweet Baboo. Swell Maps. Swing Out Sister. Swollen Monkeys. Syd Barrett. Sylvan Esso. |
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New timetables online: Park Royal parly to be diverted
Robin9 wrote:
'Basil Jet[_4_ Wrote: Incidentally, GWR use the Paddington - Park Royal - Ealing - Paddington for turning trains that have ended up the wrong way round. How will they turn trains after the line is severed, or will the line be too busy to even think about it? Basil Jet . Presumably, they'll simply change locomotives in Acton Yard. It's HSTs that sometimes need turning, and that won't be a problem given that there are triangles at both ends of the Greenford branch. |
New timetables online: Park Royal parly to be diverted
On Tue, 27 Nov 2018 11:09:16 +0000
Robin9 wrote: 'Basil Jet[_4_ Wrote: Incidentally, GWR use the Paddington - Park Royal - Ealing - Paddington for turning trains that have ended up the wrong way round. How will they turn trains after the line is severed, or will the line be too busy to even think about it? Basil Jet . Presumably, they'll simply change locomotives in Acton Yard. On a related topic, I've often wondered why almost all US locomotives are single ended. I realise the routes are long and the trains are usually topped and tailed, but you'd think from a simple operational POV it would be simpler to have a cab at both ends so you don't have to turn them or can only have them leading in 1 direction. |
New timetables online: Park Royal parly to be diverted
On 28/11/2018 12:33, Mike Bristow wrote:
In article , NY wrote: I'm not sure why a north-to-west facing curve was never built between the Heathrow spur and the GWML, to allow trains from Reading, Oxford, Bristol and south Wales to reach Heathrow - even if it involved a change to a Reading-Heathrow shuttle. Because the line is at capacity from Newbury to Paddington. So which services through Reading are you going to divert to Heathrow? They have to be fast trains, otherwise it'll be quicker to go to non-stop Paddington and change there. You missed the bit about a Reading - Heathrow shuttle. One solution, given a west facing curve would be to run a limited stop service Paddington - Heathrow - Reading and return on the current HE frequencies. -- Graeme Wall This account not read. |
New timetables online: Park Royal parly to be diverted
In article ,
Graeme Wall wrote: On 28/11/2018 12:33, Mike Bristow wrote: In article , NY wrote: I'm not sure why a north-to-west facing curve was never built between the Heathrow spur and the GWML, to allow trains from Reading, Oxford, Bristol and south Wales to reach Heathrow - even if it involved a change to a Reading-Heathrow shuttle. Because the line is at capacity from Newbury to Paddington. So which services through Reading are you going to divert to Heathrow? They have to be fast trains, otherwise it'll be quicker to go to non-stop Paddington and change there. You missed the bit about a Reading - Heathrow shuttle. How can a Reading to Heathrow service avoid the line between Newbury and Paddington (via Reading)? Because that whole section is at capacity, AIUI, which was the basis for the rest of my comments. One solution, given a west facing curve would be to run a limited stop service Paddington - Heathrow - Reading and return on the current HE frequencies. You can clear the paths from Paddington - Heathrow by using this service to replace the HE service; but where do the paths between Heathrow - Reading come from? That section is at capacity, too. -- Mike Bristow |
New timetables online: Park Royal parly to be diverted
On 28/11/2018 15:49, Mike Bristow wrote:
In article , Graeme Wall wrote: On 28/11/2018 12:33, Mike Bristow wrote: In article , NY wrote: I'm not sure why a north-to-west facing curve was never built between the Heathrow spur and the GWML, to allow trains from Reading, Oxford, Bristol and south Wales to reach Heathrow - even if it involved a change to a Reading-Heathrow shuttle. Because the line is at capacity from Newbury to Paddington. So which services through Reading are you going to divert to Heathrow? They have to be fast trains, otherwise it'll be quicker to go to non-stop Paddington and change there. You missed the bit about a Reading - Heathrow shuttle. How can a Reading to Heathrow service avoid the line between Newbury and Paddington (via Reading)? Because that whole section is at capacity, AIUI, which was the basis for the rest of my comments. Given the paths are half occupied from Airport junction inward then there should be space west of Slough on the relief lines. -- Graeme Wall This account not read. |
New timetables online: Park Royal parly to be diverted
On 28/11/2018 16:12, Graeme Wall wrote:
On 28/11/2018 15:49, Mike Bristow wrote: In article , Â*Â*Â*Â*Graeme Wall wrote: On 28/11/2018 12:33, Mike Bristow wrote: In article , Â*Â*Â*Â*NY wrote: I'm not sure why a north-to-west facing curve was never built between the Heathrow spur and the GWML, to allow trains from Reading, Oxford, Bristol and south Wales to reach Heathrow - even if it involved a change to a Reading-Heathrow shuttle. Because the line is at capacity from Newbury to Paddington. So which services through Reading are you going to divert to Heathrow?Â* They have to be fast trains, otherwise it'll be quicker to go to non-stop Paddington and change there. You missed the bit about a Reading - Heathrow shuttle. How can a Reading to Heathrow service avoid the line between Newbury and Paddington (via Reading)?Â* Because that whole section is at capacity, AIUI, which was the basis for the rest of my comments. Given the paths are half occupied from Airport junction inward then there should be space west of Slough on the relief lines. That would only follow if every train on the relief lines had the same stopping pattern west of Airport Junction. -- Basil Jet - listening... St. Vincent. Star Park. Stealing Sheep. Stephen Mallinder. Stereolab. Steve Harley & Cockney Rebel. Steve Mackay. Steve Mason. Steve Reich. Steve Wynn. Stiff Little Fingers. Stonephace. Stump. Sub Sub. Subway Sect. Suede. Sufjan Stevens. Sugar. Suicidal Tendencies. Suicide. Sun City Girls & David Oliphant. Sun Ra. Sunday Painters. Swans. Sweet Baboo. Swell Maps. Swing Out Sister. Swollen Monkeys. Syd Barrett. Sylvan Esso. |
New timetables online: Park Royal parly to be diverted
Basil Jet wrote:
On 28/11/2018 16:12, Graeme Wall wrote: On 28/11/2018 15:49, Mike Bristow wrote: In article , Â*Â*Â*Â*Graeme Wall wrote: On 28/11/2018 12:33, Mike Bristow wrote: In article , Â*Â*Â*Â*NY wrote: I'm not sure why a north-to-west facing curve was never built between the Heathrow spur and the GWML, to allow trains from Reading, Oxford, Bristol and south Wales to reach Heathrow - even if it involved a change to a Reading-Heathrow shuttle. Because the line is at capacity from Newbury to Paddington. So which services through Reading are you going to divert to Heathrow?Â* They have to be fast trains, otherwise it'll be quicker to go to non-stop Paddington and change there. You missed the bit about a Reading - Heathrow shuttle. How can a Reading to Heathrow service avoid the line between Newbury and Paddington (via Reading)?Â* Because that whole section is at capacity, AIUI, which was the basis for the rest of my comments. Given the paths are half occupied from Airport junction inward then there should be space west of Slough on the relief lines. That would only follow if every train on the relief lines had the same stopping pattern west of Airport Junction. Not really. As long as they have about the same number of stops, or are efficiently flighted, there should be some spare paths west of Heathrow. |
New timetables online: Park Royal parly to be diverted
"Recliner" wrote in message ... Graeme Wall wrote: On 25/11/2018 20:21, Roger Lynn wrote: On 25/11/18 01:40, Basil Jet wrote: On 25/11/2018 00:55, Recliner wrote: However, I hope that Chiltern's request for a reopened line into the new OOC Crossrail/HS2/GWR station comes to fruition, so it can run an hourly service to it from Milton Keynes via Aylesbury. It seems like a stupid place to terminate - I can't see many people getting trains in from High Wycombe to change onto HS2 for Birmingham. Crossrail is just a glorified tube line - although I suppose the other Chiltern trains terminate at a station with only one tube line. Connections to Heathrow and the GWML would be useful. At the moment getting to Heathrow from Chiltern stations is a pain and it's easier and faster to drive or get a coach. Getting to Heathrow from anywhere to the west is a pain. Yes. Various rail links to the west and southwest have been under discussion for decades, and still are. The station under T5 awaits the line west, but construction still hasn't begun. even the bus links are ****e I noticed last time I was in Woking that the airlink bus is now hourly tim |
We now at last have a YouTube video with good picture quality of the line from Northolt Junction to Greenford.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAEOaqvw0OM In fact it's from West Ruislip Station to the South Western Lines just past Acton Wells Junction. What a pity the only YouTube video of the section between Park Royal and Greenford has such awful picture quality. |
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