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£1 flat fare tube
"Respect" are promising a £1 flat fare for tube use. They want *more* people
to use the tube. I wonder if anyone in "Respect" has ever used the tube in the morning rush hour? -- Everything above is the personal opinion of the author, and nothing to do with where he works and all that lovely disclaimery stuff. Posted in his lunch hour too. |
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On Wed, 12 May 2004 13:41:53 +0100, "Paul Weaver"
wrote: "Respect" are promising a £1 flat fare for tube use. They want *more* people to use the tube. I wonder if anyone in "Respect" has ever used the tube in the morning rush hour? Who or what are "Respect"? Cheers, Jason. |
£1 flat fare tube
"Respect" are promising a £1 flat fare for tube use. They want *more* people to use the tube. I wonder if anyone in "Respect" has ever used the tube in the morning rush hour? Who or what are "Respect"? this lot: http://www.respectfestival.org.uk/ ? |
£1 flat fare tube
Mark Fried wrote:
"Respect" are promising a £1 flat fare for tube use. They want *more* people to use the tube. I wonder if anyone in "Respect" has ever used the tube in the morning rush hour? Who or what are "Respect"? this lot: http://www.respectfestival.org.uk/ ? No, it's this lot: http://www.respectcoalition.com/ They are a political party contesting the GLA and London Mayoral elections (candidate for the latter, Lindsey German). As far as I can see, their many costly proposals are supposed to be funded by local income tax and higher business rates, neither of which they would have the power to implement. -- Richard J. (to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address) |
£1 flat fare tube
dan wrote:
"Mark Fried" wrote in message ... "Respect" are promising a £1 flat fare for tube use. They want *more* people to use the tube. I wonder if anyone in "Respect" has ever used the tube in the morning rush hour? Who or what are "Respect"? this lot: http://www.respectfestival.org.uk/ ? Errrr.. no! RESPECT are a new political party founded by George Galloway and the Stop the War Coalition. Their web-site is http://www.respectcoalition.org/ I am not surprised that you hadn't heard of them - few people have...... I have to say that I wasn't very impressed by them at the ULU hustings; they were mildly disruptive (they wanted to be on the panel which had representatives from the top five parties at the last election) and if I'm going to vote based on the war, I'm certainly not going to do it in the London elections which have absolutely nothing to do with it. Besides, all five candidates on the panel were anti-war anyway - so they weren't really achieving anything. As for their policies, they seem to have been picked out of the air just so it looks like they are actually bothered about London. Apparently Respect "are not the usual suited politicians who court your vote, then once in office turn their backs on you." That is, until they bankrupt TfL within a few months with: - £1 tube fare (presumably with associated decreases in season ticket fares and bus fares) - full disabled accessibility on ALL public transport (presumably including Zone 1 LU stations) - free travel for pensioners (that we already have?), students, under 18s and the unemployed - conductors on all buses - guards on all LU and overground trains - and 24-hour LU and train services (where maintenance is presumably carried out by pixies) -- Dave Arquati Imperial College, SW7 www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London |
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On Thu, 13 May 2004 at 22:00:43, Dave Arquati wrote:
- and 24-hour LU and train services (where maintenance is presumably carried out by pixies) Definitely dreaming.... but what I have always wondered is how does New York manage to run a 24-hour service, or is this because they can often re-route trains if they want to close a section of line (very muddling for visitors!), which we can't do in London? -- Annabel Smyth http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/index.html Website updated 9 May 2004 |
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Annabel Smyth wrote:
On Thu, 13 May 2004 at 22:00:43, Dave Arquati wrote: - and 24-hour LU and train services (where maintenance is presumably carried out by pixies) Definitely dreaming.... but what I have always wondered is how does New York manage to run a 24-hour service, or is this because they can often re-route trains if they want to close a section of line (very muddling for visitors!), which we can't do in London? Because some New York lines have four tracks (for fast/slow trains) of which one pair can be used for all services at night. So theoretically engineering on Finchley Road - Wembley Park or Barons Court - Acton Town needn't close the line (although I'm sure the HSE would disagree). -- Dave Arquati Imperial College, SW7 www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London |
£1 flat fare tube
"Dave Arquati" wrote in message ... Annabel Smyth wrote: On Thu, 13 May 2004 at 22:00:43, Dave Arquati wrote: - and 24-hour LU and train services (where maintenance is presumably carried out by pixies) Definitely dreaming.... but what I have always wondered is how does New York manage to run a 24-hour service, or is this because they can often re-route trains if they want to close a section of line (very muddling for visitors!), which we can't do in London? Because some New York lines have four tracks (for fast/slow trains) of which one pair can be used for all services at night. So theoretically engineering on Finchley Road - Wembley Park or Barons Court - Acton Town needn't close the line (although I'm sure the HSE would disagree). You'll find only the 4 track lines continue to run 7 days a week, 24 hours a day. The lines with only 2 tracks are shut at times for engineering works and bus replacement services are offered. Aren't the 4 track lines more separated than LUL / NR in most places, thus not having the engineering staff subject to be hit by moving trains? |
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Annabel Smyth:
what I have always wondered is how does New York manage to run a 24-hour service, or is this because they can often re-route trains if they want to close a section of line ... Dave Arquati: Because some New York lines have four tracks (for fast/slow trains) of which one pair can be used for all services at night. Robin Mayes: You'll find only the 4 track lines continue to run 7 days a week, 24 hours a day. The lines with only 2 tracks are shut at times for engineering works and bus replacement services are offered. True. However, almost all lines do run 24/7 *except* when this sort of closure is needed. London's tube tunnels aren't big enough for people working there to step aside and allow a train to pass, making various kinds of work impossible that in New York would take place during operating hours. (However, here in Toronto the tunnels *are* big enough, and the TTC says they still need all the overnight shutdown time that they now have, so maybe that's not much of a factor.) I also recall one visit to New York on a Sunday afternoon when I was riding on a 2-track line and saw a sizeable chunk of wood, painted yellow and striped with black electrical tape, handed to the driver -- sure enough, it was a single-line token, and the other track was closed while work was going on on it. -- Mark Brader, Toronto | "I don't have a life; I have a program." --the Doctor | (Michael Piller, Star Trek: Voyager, "Tattoo") My text in this article is in the public domain. |
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I had asked whether the NY subway was able to stay open 24/7 because
trains could often/usually be rerouted if necessary: Dave Arquati: Because some New York lines have four tracks (for fast/slow trains) of which one pair can be used for all services at night. So theoretically engineering on Finchley Road - Wembley Park or Barons Court - Acton Town needn't close the line (although I'm sure the HSE would disagree). Robin Mayes: You'll find only the 4 track lines continue to run 7 days a week, 24 hours a day. The lines with only 2 tracks are shut at times for engineering works and bus replacement services are offered. Aren't the 4 track lines more separated than LUL / NR in most places, thus not having the engineering staff subject to be hit by moving trains? I wasn't aware of that when we travelled on an express line - it felt, to be honest, like nothing so much as a Piccadilly Line train going between Baron's Court and Acton Town, mostly travelling in between the slow line tracks. But only in New York have I seen a maintenance train running through during normal working hours - it wasn't even late evening, as far as I remember! Thanks for the replies. -- Annabel Smyth http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/index.html Website updated 9 May 2004 |
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In message , Dave Arquati
writes but what I have always wondered is how does New York manage to run a 24-hour service, or is this because they can often re-route trains if they want to close a section of line (very muddling for visitors!), which we can't do in London? Because some New York lines have four tracks (for fast/slow trains) of which one pair can be used for all services at night. So theoretically engineering on Finchley Road - Wembley Park or Barons Court - Acton Town needn't close the line (although I'm sure the HSE would disagree). I've seen them doing maintenance of the Atlanta Marta (which is similar to a Met/District Line style of urban commuter railway) late in the evening by working on one track and having alternate-working on the other. No doubt the UK's safety mafia would disallow this!! The trains run from about 5am to 1am. -- Roland Perry |
£1 flat fare tube
Because some New York lines have four tracks (for fast/slow trains) of
which one pair can be used for all services at night. So theoretically engineering on Finchley Road - Wembley Park or Barons Court - Acton Town needn't close the line (although I'm sure the HSE would disagree). You'll find only the 4 track lines continue to run 7 days a week, 24 hours a day. The lines with only 2 tracks are shut at times for engineering works and bus replacement services are offered. Aren't the 4 track lines more separated than LUL / NR in most places, thus not having the engineering staff subject to be hit by moving trains? No, they are all scheduled to run 24/7: http://www.mta.nyc.ny.us/nyct/service/schemain.htm There is no regular downtime planned into the schedules, even for 2 track lines, like the L, the Manhattan part of the 7, the M North of Broadway/Myrtle, or the J/Z in Queens. If you'd got the impression that 2 track lines are closed a lot, it would be because the L train is currently being upgraded to use CBTC. Of course it does happen that the 2 track sections tend to get closed. A Passenger Service Advisory is then posted - this certainly doesn't happen every night or indeed every weekend. Of course there are also a lot of 3-track sections (mostly Els, but also the Concourse Line), the middle track of which can be used for peak direction express (like on the 6 in the Bronx or the 7 in Queens) as well as providing a way of keeping service running whilst MOW are on the tracks. The only one which really doesn't get much use is the West End express track (D train in Brooklyn) - the trains tend to be sent over the Sea Beach (N) Line in one direction. As far as separation between tracks goes, it's very variable. There are sections with curtain walls, others with columns. There are of course areas with lots of clearance and others with very little. |
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Definitely dreaming.... but what I have always wondered is how does New
York manage to run a 24-hour service, or is this because they can often re-route trains if they want to close a section of line (very muddling for visitors!), which we can't do in London? It's partly because of the ease of reroutes (yes, including, but not restricted to, the 3 and 4 track sections) and partly because they don't have a legal requirement to walk every inch of track at night. They also have the advantage of not having a 4th Rail, so it's safe for MOW to walk along the 4 foot. |
£1 flat fare tube
In article , Roland Perry
writes I've seen them doing maintenance of the Atlanta Marta (which is similar to a Met/District Line style of urban commuter railway) late in the evening by working on one track and having alternate-working on the other. No doubt the UK's safety mafia would disallow this!! Alternate working requires a sufficiency of crossovers to switch trains. The tube lines don't have these, in general. There's also a problem with trainstops - they need to be lowered to prevent a train running the wrong way from "back-tripping". Except where bidirectional working is allowed (e.g. at termini) this isn't designed into the signalling. -- Clive D.W. Feather | Home: Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work: Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is: |
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In message , Clive D. W. Feather
writes Alternate working requires a sufficiency of crossovers to switch trains. The tube lines don't have these, in general. A design fault, then. There's also a problem with trainstops - they need to be lowered to prevent a train running the wrong way from "back-tripping". Except where bidirectional working is allowed (e.g. at termini) this isn't designed into the signalling. Another fault. [These are excusable when the tubes were originally designed for normal working hours. I think we forget how little of life was 24x7 as recently as 30 years ago. I could certainly drive from Cambridge to Chelmsford at midnight and see no other car on the road. At some point this changed radically - perhaps the tubes need to keep up.] -- Roland Perry |
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In message ,
Colin Rosenstiel writes More a concept fault for tube tunnels. Not a problem with cut-and-cover tunnels but then London's tubes aren't based on them. Most of the "Underground" system is either above ground, or in twin-track cut and cover. -- Roland Perry |
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In article , Roland Perry
writes [These are excusable when the tubes were originally designed for normal working hours. I think we forget how little of life was 24x7 as recently as 30 years ago. I could certainly drive from Cambridge to Chelmsford at midnight and see no other car on the road. At some point this changed radically - perhaps the tubes need to keep up.] The answer, of course, is cost. Digging new crossover tunnels isn't cheap. Signalling changes are cheaper, but is it a better way to spend the money than running night buses instead? -- Clive D.W. Feather | Home: Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work: Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is: |
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In message ,
Colin Rosenstiel writes Most of the "Underground" system is either above ground, or in twin-track cut and cover. Not in Zone 1 though. No, but being able to run 24x7 round the Circle, and on many of the lines outside, would be much better than nothing. -- Roland Perry |
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In message , Clive D. W. Feather
writes Digging new crossover tunnels isn't cheap. I wouldn't suggest new tunnelling. -- Roland Perry |
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In article ,
Roland Perry wrote: In message , Colin Rosenstiel writes Most of the "Underground" system is either above ground, or in twin-track cut and cover. Not in Zone 1 though. No, but being able to run 24x7 round the Circle, and on many of the lines outside, would be much better than nothing. There's not much point in Leytonstone - Epping running 24/7. Or even Stratfor - Epping (although there is slightly more point in the latter). I agree about the circle, though. -- You dont have to be illiterate to use the Internet, but it help's. |
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In message , Mike Bristow
writes There's not much point in Leytonstone - Epping running 24/7. Or even Stratfor - Epping (although there is slightly more point in the latter). You'd probably want to restrict it to Leytonstone on that end of the line, and Ealing Broadway the other. -- Roland Perry |
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Roland Perry wrote:
In message , Colin Rosenstiel writes Most of the "Underground" system is either above ground, or in twin-track cut and cover. Not in Zone 1 though. No, but being able to run 24x7 round the Circle, and on many of the lines outside, would be much better than nothing. True, but the starting point isn't nothing. It's the most extensive night bus network in the world. -- Richard J. (to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address) |
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On Thu, 20 May 2004, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , Mike Bristow writes There's not much point in Leytonstone - Epping running 24/7. Or even Stratfor - Epping (although there is slightly more point in the latter). You'd probably want to restrict it to Leytonstone on that end of the line, and Ealing Broadway the other. Why is there not much point? What about people who live in Epping or West Ruislip and want to get home late at night? tom -- In-jokes for out-casts |
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In article ,
Tom Anderson wrote: Why is there not much point? What about people who live in Epping or West Ruislip and want to get home late at night? Where are they coming from? Leytonstone? Not likely. More likely to be the West End - and the suggestion was not to run the tube 24/7 through that area. Seems to be catering for the really small market of people who go clubbing at Kirkdales, or who have already endured a long bus journey. -- You dont have to be illiterate to use the Internet, but it help's. |
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On Thu, 20 May 2004, Mike Bristow wrote:
In article , Tom Anderson wrote: Why is there not much point? What about people who live in Epping or West Ruislip and want to get home late at night? Where are they coming from? Leytonstone? Not likely. More likely to be the West End - and the suggestion was not to run the tube 24/7 through that area. Ah, seem to have missed that point; sorry! tom -- No noon today. Noon tomorrow. There's always a noon tomorrow. |
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In article ,
Mike Bristow wrote: Where are they coming from? Leytonstone? Not likely. More likely to be the West End - and the suggestion was not to run the tube 24/7 through that area. Seems to be catering for the really small market of people who go clubbing at Kirkdales, or who have already endured a long bus journey. You mean there are clubs that close before the Tubes start ? Well there are on Sunday mornings, of course ... hours spent at Highbury... Nick -- "And we will be restoring normality just as soon as we are sure what is neurotypical anyway. Thank you". |
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In article ,
Nick Leverton wrote: In article , Mike Bristow wrote: Where are they coming from? Leytonstone? Not likely. More likely to be the West End - and the suggestion was not to run the tube 24/7 through that area. Seems to be catering for the really small market of people who go clubbing at Kirkdales, or who have already endured a long bus journey. You mean there are clubs that close before the Tubes start ? In Leytonstone? Yep. -- You dont have to be illiterate to use the Internet, but it help's. |
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Glasgow Subway is £1 single. And since it's a circle, you can get a lot for
your pound. You can go round and round and round and round and round and round and round all day (if you're sufficiently sad). Also, you never have to miss your stop, just wait for it to come round again (I did steal this idea from someone else). -- "We are now approaching Paisley Gilmour Street" |
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