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Old July 31st 19, 02:00 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default 4G on the tube

In message , at 12:45:00 on Wed, 31
Jul 2019, MissRiaElaine remarked:
On Tue 30/07/2019 14:04, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 13:55:47
on Tue, 30 Jul 2019, Jarle Hammen Knudsen remarked:

No, because the emergency services contract (which this is
piggy-backed
upon) is 4G.

Is this something to replace the tetra based network in the UK?

Yes. And it's also much delayed. But that's not really a surprise
for a large government IT project!


It's also going to be a total waste of time and money. Tetra just
worked, why change it..?


I think the problem is it's proprietary, and rather old. Replacing worn
out equipment and paying ongoing licence fees, was regarded as less
effective than using an 'open source' idea like 4G.
--
Roland Perry

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Old July 31st 19, 04:00 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default 4G on the tube

On 31/07/2019 14:00, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 12:45:00 on Wed, 31
Jul 2019, MissRiaElaine remarked:
On Tue 30/07/2019 14:04, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 13:55:47
on¬* Tue, 30 Jul 2019, Jarle Hammen Knudsen remarked:

No, because the emergency services contract (which this is
piggy-backed
upon) is 4G.

Is this something to replace the tetra based network in the UK?
¬*Yes. And it's also much delayed. But that's not really a surprise
for a¬* large government IT project!


It's also going to be a total waste of time and money. Tetra just
worked, why change it..?


I think the problem is it's proprietary, and rather old. Replacing worn
out equipment and paying ongoing licence fees, was regarded as less
effective than using an 'open source' idea like 4G.


Wasn't it also the lack of development of the standard and basically
being stuck on GPRS like speeds?

What's concerning is that they are still rolling out a 4G solution when
5G is already here...
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Old July 31st 19, 04:25 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default 4G on the tube

In message , at 16:00:22 on Wed, 31 Jul
2019, Someone Somewhere remarked:

No, because the emergency services contract (which this is
piggy-backed upon) is 4G.

Is this something to replace the tetra based network in the UK?
*Yes. And it's also much delayed. But that's not really a surprise
for a* large government IT project!

It's also going to be a total waste of time and money. Tetra just
worked, why change it..?

I think the problem is it's proprietary, and rather old. Replacing
worn out equipment and paying ongoing licence fees, was regarded as
less effective than using an 'open source' idea like 4G.


Wasn't it also the lack of development of the standard and basically
being stuck on GPRS like speeds?


Yes, that's part of it. And the new handsets are also half the price of
Airwave ones.

What's concerning is that they are still rolling out a 4G solution when
5G is already here...


The Emergency Network requires the whole country to be flooded with 4G.
They aren't even sufficiently close to that yet. Let alone start from
scratch with 5G.

The original switch-off date for Airwave was supposed to be the end of
2019. Many don't expect that to happen for a least five years, and
that's sticking with 4G.
--
Roland Perry
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Old July 31st 19, 05:43 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default 4G on the tube

On Wed, 31 Jul 2019 16:00:22 +0100, Someone Somewhere
wrote:

On 31/07/2019 14:00, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 12:45:00 on Wed, 31
Jul 2019, MissRiaElaine remarked:
On Tue 30/07/2019 14:04, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 13:55:47
on¬* Tue, 30 Jul 2019, Jarle Hammen Knudsen remarked:

No, because the emergency services contract (which this is
piggy-backed
upon) is 4G.

Is this something to replace the tetra based network in the UK?
¬*Yes. And it's also much delayed. But that's not really a surprise
for a¬* large government IT project!

It's also going to be a total waste of time and money. Tetra just
worked, why change it..?


I think the problem is it's proprietary, and rather old. Replacing worn
out equipment and paying ongoing licence fees, was regarded as less
effective than using an 'open source' idea like 4G.


Wasn't it also the lack of development of the standard and basically
being stuck on GPRS like speeds?

What's concerning is that they are still rolling out a 4G solution when
5G is already here...


Whe haven't finished rolling out our Tetra ntework in Norway yet...

--
jhk
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Old July 31st 19, 08:20 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default 4G on the tube

On Wed, 31 Jul 2019 14:00:30 +0100
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 12:45:00 on Wed, 31
Jul 2019, MissRiaElaine remarked:
On Tue 30/07/2019 14:04, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 13:55:47
on Tue, 30 Jul 2019, Jarle Hammen Knudsen remarked:

No, because the emergency services contract (which this is
piggy-backed
upon) is 4G.

Is this something to replace the tetra based network in the UK?
Yes. And it's also much delayed. But that's not really a surprise
for a large government IT project!


It's also going to be a total waste of time and money. Tetra just
worked, why change it..?


I think the problem is it's proprietary, and rather old. Replacing worn


Not that old in radio terms. Plod was still using motorola analogue trunking
systems only 15 years ago - I used to listen to them on a scanner. Tetra is
a lot newer than DAB!



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Old July 31st 19, 08:27 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default 4G on the tube

On Wed, 31 Jul 2019 16:25:50 +0100
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 16:00:22 on Wed, 31 Jul
2019, Someone Somewhere remarked:

No, because the emergency services contract (which this is
piggy-backed upon) is 4G.

Is this something to replace the tetra based network in the UK?
*Yes. And it's also much delayed. But that's not really a surprise
for a* large government IT project!

It's also going to be a total waste of time and money. Tetra just
worked, why change it..?
I think the problem is it's proprietary, and rather old. Replacing
worn out equipment and paying ongoing licence fees, was regarded as
less effective than using an 'open source' idea like 4G.


Wasn't it also the lack of development of the standard and basically
being stuck on GPRS like speeds?


Yes, that's part of it. And the new handsets are also half the price of
Airwave ones.

What's concerning is that they are still rolling out a 4G solution when
5G is already here...


The Emergency Network requires the whole country to be flooded with 4G.
They aren't even sufficiently close to that yet. Let alone start from
scratch with 5G.


5G is all hype. Yes it allows fantastic download speeds - as long as you're
within site of a transmitter. Go behind a wall or around a corner and the
speed soon drops off as the frequency simply doesn't penetrate matter very
well. Blanket coverage of 5G simply won't happen as it'll require far too many
base stations and associated equipment and wired links and would cost an
absolute fortune which the phone companies don't have. Its just marketing hype
to part the usual techno-suckers from their money in order to get smartphone
sales back up.

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Old August 1st 19, 08:12 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default 4G on the tube

On 31/07/2019 16:25, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 16:00:22 on Wed, 31 Jul
2019, Someone Somewhere remarked:

No, because the emergency services contract (which this is
piggy-backed¬* upon) is 4G.

Is this something to replace the tetra based network in the UK?
¬*Yes. And it's also much delayed. But that's not really a surprise
for a¬* large government IT project!

It's also going to be a total waste of time and money. Tetra just
worked, why change it..?
¬*I think the problem is it's proprietary, and rather old. Replacing
worn¬* out equipment and paying ongoing licence fees, was regarded as
less¬* effective than using an 'open source' idea like 4G.


Wasn't it also the lack of development of the standard and basically
being stuck on GPRS like speeds?


Yes, that's part of it. And the new handsets are also half the price of
Airwave ones.

What's concerning is that they are still rolling out a 4G solution
when 5G is already here...


The Emergency Network requires the whole country to be flooded with 4G.
They aren't even sufficiently close to that yet. Let alone start from
scratch with 5G.

The original switch-off date for Airwave was supposed to be the end of
2019. Many don't expect that to happen for a least five years, and
that's sticking with 4G.


Well yes, but surely if it's layered on top of 4G it could also be
layered on top of 5G and any subsequent radio data bearer of a similar
ilk? I wasn't suggesting it could only be on 4G but made forward
compatible so it wasn't getting to be obsolete by the time rollout was
completed.
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Old August 1st 19, 11:35 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Posts: 9,814
Default 4G on the tube

In message , at 08:12:22 on Thu, 1 Aug
2019, Someone Somewhere remarked:
No, because the emergency services contract (which this is
piggy-backed* upon) is 4G.

Is this something to replace the tetra based network in the UK?
*Yes. And it's also much delayed. But that's not really a
surprise for a* large government IT project!

It's also going to be a total waste of time and money. Tetra just
worked, why change it..?
*I think the problem is it's proprietary, and rather old. Replacing
worn* out equipment and paying ongoing licence fees, was regarded as
less* effective than using an 'open source' idea like 4G.

Wasn't it also the lack of development of the standard and basically
being stuck on GPRS like speeds?

Yes, that's part of it. And the new handsets are also half the price
of Airwave ones.

What's concerning is that they are still rolling out a 4G solution
when 5G is already here...

The Emergency Network requires the whole country to be flooded with
4G. They aren't even sufficiently close to that yet. Let alone start
from scratch with 5G.
The original switch-off date for Airwave was supposed to be the end
of 2019. Many don't expect that to happen for a least five years, and
that's sticking with 4G.


Well yes, but surely if it's layered on top of 4G it could also be
layered on top of 5G and any subsequent radio data bearer of a similar
ilk? I wasn't suggesting it could only be on 4G but made forward
compatible so it wasn't getting to be obsolete by the time rollout was
completed.


The money to put the 4G on the tube is coming from the much-delayed
Emergency Network project. There isn't any money to install 5G, and it's
far too late to start changing the Emergency Network spec to include 5G.

That's the kind of thing which makes large government IT projects even
later and more over budget than they already are.
--
Roland Perry
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Old August 1st 19, 11:45 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Posts: 463
Default 4G on the tube

On 01/08/2019 11:35, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 08:12:22 on Thu, 1 Aug
2019, Someone Somewhere remarked:
No, because the emergency services contract (which this is
piggy-backed¬* upon) is 4G.

Is this something to replace the tetra based network in the UK?
¬*Yes. And it's also much delayed. But that's not really a
surprise¬* for a¬* large government IT project!

It's also going to be a total waste of time and money. Tetra just
worked, why change it..?
¬*I think the problem is it's proprietary, and rather old. Replacing
worn¬* out equipment and paying ongoing licence fees, was regarded
as less¬* effective than using an 'open source' idea like 4G.

Wasn't it also the lack of development of the standard and basically
being stuck on GPRS like speeds?
¬*Yes, that's part of it. And the new handsets are also half the price
of¬* Airwave ones.

What's concerning is that they are still rolling out a 4G solution
when 5G is already here...
¬*The Emergency Network requires the whole country to be flooded with
4G.¬* They aren't even sufficiently close to that yet. Let alone start
from¬* scratch with 5G.
¬*The original switch-off date for Airwave was supposed to be the end
of¬* 2019. Many don't expect that to happen for a least five years,
and that's sticking with 4G.


Well yes, but surely if it's layered on top of 4G it could also be
layered on top of 5G and any subsequent radio data bearer of a similar
ilk?¬* I wasn't suggesting it could only be on 4G but made forward
compatible so it wasn't getting to be obsolete by the time rollout was
completed.


The money to put the 4G on the tube is coming from the much-delayed
Emergency Network project. There isn't any money to install 5G, and it's
far too late to start changing the Emergency Network spec to include 5G.

That's the kind of thing which makes large government IT projects even
later and more over budget than they already are.


And even more out of date.

Combined base stations and aerial arrays are already available and they
should have been using those even if they aren't turning on the 5G bit
now.

This is particularly true as 5G is far better at dealing with high
densities of users which a tube station / train is a rather good example of.


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