Heathrow CC
 

On 28/09/2019 11:36, Graeme Wall wrote:
On 27/09/2019 21:48, MissRiaElaine wrote:

I hereby propose a new law, based on Godwin's Law. Anyone who mentions
Brexit in a thread that is nothing to do with it automatically loses
the argument.

Let's call it Boris's Law.



Godwin's law doesn't say you lose the argument, just "As an online
discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis
or Hitler approaches 1"

You're no doubt right, it's been a long time since I last saw it. But
the principle holds true, and I like my version better..!


--
Ria in Aberdeen

[Send address is invalid, use sipsoup at gmail dot com to reply direct]

Heathrow CC
 

On Fri, 27 Sep 2019 20:11:38 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
wrote:
On Mon, 23 Sep 2019 19:47:45 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
wrote:
On Mon, 23 Sep 2019 15:44:25 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
wrote:
On Mon, 23 Sep 2019 16:04:12 +0100
Recliner wrote:
On Mon, 23 Sep 2019 14:58:53 +0100, Basil Jet
aircraft using the new runway such as the A380 which burns half a ton
of

fuel
just to get from the gate to take off position.


Isn't that what those yellow drones someone linked to last week are
for?

They don't fly, so they're not drones.

They're robotugs called Mototok Spacer 8600s. They aren't powerful
enough to push back wide-bodied jets, though a larger model might. In
any case, they don't replace any jet fuel, as pushback would otherwise
be done by hefty diesel tugs. So they save some diesel fuel and fumes,
but not aviation fuel.

If you knew anything about physics you'd be aware that using a jet engine

to

push a vehicle on the ground is far less efficient than using powered
wheels.

Half of the energy is wasted on chucking air backwards rather than making

the

aircraft go forwards.

Who are you arguing with? Nobody claimed that jet engines were an
efficient way of moving large vehicles slowly round an airport. We were
discussing diesel vs battery pushback tugs.

At some airports - don't know about heathrow - some aircraft push back
using
reverse thrusters.

Name one.

Borispol, Kiev.

https://www.123rf.com/photo_11341508...5-2018-the-pus
hback-of-the-ellinair-airbus-a320-200-aircraft-in-the-borisp.html

https://youtu.be/7ifDnXNNeLM

Not even bothering to look - I was in a plane that did it there so go do one.

Heathrow CC
 

On Sat, 28 Sep 2019 07:30:18 +0100
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 19:26:11 on Fri, 27 Sep
2019, remarked:
On Mon, 23 Sep 2019 18:48:55 +0100
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 16:23:25 on Mon, 23 Sep
2019, remarked:
I used to work near heathrow and the number of people travelling there by
private car was a small percentage of the total.

Total public transport (by passengers) has crept up to 40% over the last
decade (from 35%). Then there's the staff.

It would take probably 500+ cars just to replace 1 full tube train so god
knows
how they calculate that.

By doing proper professional surveys.

Would these be the same proper professional surveys that predicted a brexit
referendum win for remain?

Doing a historical traffic survey is a rather different task to opinion
polling.

Not really - it all depends on sample size. They couldn't measure every
passenger getting off every train or bus every single car that stopped so
it's just as much extrapolation as a voting survey.

Heathrow CC
 

On Sat, 28 Sep 2019 07:34:26 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 19:24:25 on Fri, 27 Sep
2019, remarked:
On Thu, 26 Sep 2019 13:21:23 +0100
MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 23/09/2019 20:47, Recliner wrote:
MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 23/09/2019 16:32, wrote:

I used to work near heathrow and the number of people travelling there by
private car was a small percentage of the total. I don't see why
that would

change with a 3rd runway. And my office overlooked one of the parking
pounds
of one of the private parking companies. Anyone who had seen what those
****wits
got up to with their prized possesion would never park at heathrow again.

They should never have gone for a 3rd runway at Heathrow. A second
runway at Gatwick would make far more sense.

Not according to the official Airports Commission, the majority of
passengers or the airlines.

Well, whatever as they say. I would certainly prefer to use Gatwick than
Heathrow any day.

Bit of a PITA to get to unless you live near the airport

Or the M25. The eastern section of which I find much more reliable than
the western.

or the brighton main line.

Which serves Central London with its connections and even direct trains
from counties norf of the river, that latter something which Heathrow
lacks (until Crossrail serves parts of Essex).


That's ignoring the Tube, of course.

Heathrow CC
 

In message , at 11:57:44 on Sat, 28 Sep
2019, remarked:
I used to work near heathrow and the number of people travelling there by
private car was a small percentage of the total.

Total public transport (by passengers) has crept up to 40% over the last
decade (from 35%). Then there's the staff.

It would take probably 500+ cars just to replace 1 full tube train so god
knows
how they calculate that.

By doing proper professional surveys.

Would these be the same proper professional surveys that predicted a brexit
referendum win for remain?

Doing a historical traffic survey is a rather different task to opinion
polling.

Not really - it all depends on sample size. They couldn't measure every
passenger getting off every train or bus every single car that stopped so
it's just as much extrapolation as a voting survey.

But based on well settled science.
--
Roland Perry

Heathrow CC
 

In message , at 13:35:48 on
Sat, 28 Sep 2019, Recliner remarked:

Well, whatever as they say. I would certainly prefer to use Gatwick than
Heathrow any day.

Bit of a PITA to get to unless you live near the airport

Or the M25. The eastern section of which I find much more reliable than
the western.

or the brighton main line.

Which serves Central London with its connections and even direct trains
from counties norf of the river, that latter something which Heathrow
lacks (until Crossrail serves parts of Essex).

That's ignoring the Tube, of course.

Yes, I forgot the inhabitants of Cockfosters, and their fortitude in
getting a tube to Heathrow.
--
Roland Perry

Heathrow CC
 

On Sat, 28 Sep 2019 13:53:20 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 13:35:48 on
Sat, 28 Sep 2019, Recliner remarked:

Well, whatever as they say. I would certainly prefer to use Gatwick than
Heathrow any day.

Bit of a PITA to get to unless you live near the airport

Or the M25. The eastern section of which I find much more reliable than
the western.

or the brighton main line.

Which serves Central London with its connections and even direct trains
from counties norf of the river, that latter something which Heathrow
lacks (until Crossrail serves parts of Essex).

That's ignoring the Tube, of course.

Yes, I forgot the inhabitants of Cockfosters, and their fortitude in
getting a tube to Heathrow.

Last time I looked, the West End was also north of the river. I live
north of the river, and my rail journeys to and from Heathrow are
always on the Piccadilly line. The Picc serves far more stations in
London than Crossrail will.

Heathrow CC
 

On Sat, 28 Sep 2019 11:54:25 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

On Fri, 27 Sep 2019 20:11:38 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
wrote:
On Mon, 23 Sep 2019 19:47:45 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
wrote:
On Mon, 23 Sep 2019 15:44:25 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
wrote:
On Mon, 23 Sep 2019 16:04:12 +0100
Recliner wrote:
On Mon, 23 Sep 2019 14:58:53 +0100, Basil Jet
aircraft using the new runway such as the A380 which burns half a ton
of

fuel
just to get from the gate to take off position.


Isn't that what those yellow drones someone linked to last week are
for?

They don't fly, so they're not drones.

They're robotugs called Mototok Spacer 8600s. They aren't powerful
enough to push back wide-bodied jets, though a larger model might. In
any case, they don't replace any jet fuel, as pushback would otherwise
be done by hefty diesel tugs. So they save some diesel fuel and fumes,
but not aviation fuel.

If you knew anything about physics you'd be aware that using a jet engine

to

push a vehicle on the ground is far less efficient than using powered
wheels.

Half of the energy is wasted on chucking air backwards rather than making

the

aircraft go forwards.

Who are you arguing with? Nobody claimed that jet engines were an
efficient way of moving large vehicles slowly round an airport. We were
discussing diesel vs battery pushback tugs.

At some airports - don't know about heathrow - some aircraft push back
using
reverse thrusters.

Name one.

Borispol, Kiev.

https://www.123rf.com/photo_11341508...5-2018-the-pus
hback-of-the-ellinair-airbus-a320-200-aircraft-in-the-borisp.html

https://youtu.be/7ifDnXNNeLM

Not even bothering to look - I was in a plane that did it there so go do one.

Probably a very long time ago.

Heathrow CC
 

In message , at 14:03:49 on
Sat, 28 Sep 2019, Recliner remarked:
On Sat, 28 Sep 2019 13:53:20 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 13:35:48 on
Sat, 28 Sep 2019, Recliner remarked:

Well, whatever as they say. I would certainly prefer to use Gatwick than
Heathrow any day.

Bit of a PITA to get to unless you live near the airport

Or the M25. The eastern section of which I find much more reliable than
the western.

or the brighton main line.

Which serves Central London with its connections and even direct trains
from counties norf of the river, that latter something which Heathrow
lacks (until Crossrail serves parts of Essex).

That's ignoring the Tube, of course.

Yes, I forgot the inhabitants of Cockfosters, and their fortitude in
getting a tube to Heathrow.

Last time I looked, the West End was also north of the river.

In which county north of the river?

I live north of the river, and my rail journeys to and from Heathrow
are always on the Piccadilly line. The Picc serves far more stations in
London than Crossrail will.

It's a rather tedious way to get to and from work at Heathrow, if you
live north of Kings Cross.
--
Roland Perry

Heathrow CC
 

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 14:03:49 on
Sat, 28 Sep 2019, Recliner remarked:
On Sat, 28 Sep 2019 13:53:20 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 13:35:48 on
Sat, 28 Sep 2019, Recliner remarked:

Well, whatever as they say. I would certainly prefer to use Gatwick than
Heathrow any day.

Bit of a PITA to get to unless you live near the airport

Or the M25. The eastern section of which I find much more reliable than
the western.

or the brighton main line.

Which serves Central London with its connections and even direct trains
from counties norf of the river, that latter something which Heathrow
lacks (until Crossrail serves parts of Essex).

That's ignoring the Tube, of course.

Yes, I forgot the inhabitants of Cockfosters, and their fortitude in
getting a tube to Heathrow.

Last time I looked, the West End was also north of the river.

In which county north of the river?

I live north of the river, and my rail journeys to and from Heathrow
are always on the Piccadilly line. The Picc serves far more stations in
London than Crossrail will.

It's a rather tedious way to get to and from work at Heathrow, if you
live north of Kings Cross.

Is there a better way using PT? Obviously, people who don't live near a
Piccadilly line station might change to the line at, say, Finsbury Park.

Heathrow CC
 

In message , at 14:47:20 on Sat, 28 Sep
2019, Recliner remarked:

I live north of the river, and my rail journeys to and from Heathrow
are always on the Piccadilly line. The Picc serves far more stations in
London than Crossrail will.

It's a rather tedious way to get to and from work at Heathrow, if you
live north of Kings Cross.

Is there a better way using PT? Obviously, people who don't live near a
Piccadilly line station might change to the line at, say, Finsbury Park.

As the Irishman asked for directions famously said "I wouldn't start
from there".
--
Roland Perry

Heathrow CC
 

On Sat, 28 Sep 2019 14:04:23 +0100
Recliner wrote:
On Sat, 28 Sep 2019 11:54:25 +0000 (UTC), wrote:
https://www.123rf.com/photo_11341508...-05-2018-the-p
us
hback-of-the-ellinair-airbus-a320-200-aircraft-in-the-borisp.html

https://youtu.be/7ifDnXNNeLM

Not even bothering to look - I was in a plane that did it there so go do one.

Probably a very long time ago.

2006 or 2007, can't quite remember. Back when the airport was literally 1
terminal building, a hanger and an apron. Its apparently much bigger now.

Heathrow CC
 

On Sat, 28 Sep 2019 13:53:20 +0100
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 13:35:48 on
Sat, 28 Sep 2019, Recliner remarked:

Well, whatever as they say. I would certainly prefer to use Gatwick than
Heathrow any day.

Bit of a PITA to get to unless you live near the airport

Or the M25. The eastern section of which I find much more reliable than
the western.

or the brighton main line.

Which serves Central London with its connections and even direct trains
from counties norf of the river, that latter something which Heathrow
lacks (until Crossrail serves parts of Essex).

That's ignoring the Tube, of course.

Yes, I forgot the inhabitants of Cockfosters, and their fortitude in
getting a tube to Heathrow.

LU have recently converted some corner seats on the 73 stock to being a bit of
fabric over the top of concrete. They must have installed some new underseat
equipment because I can't think of any other good reason to do it.

Heathrow CC
 

On Fri, Sep 27, 2019 at 07:24:25PM +0000, wrote:
On Thu, 26 Sep 2019 13:21:23 +0100
MissRiaElaine wrote:
Well, whatever as they say. I would certainly prefer to use Gatwick than
Heathrow any day.
Bit of a PITA to get to unless you live near the airport or the brighton main
line.

Bit like any other airport, and indeed, any other *thing* is a bit of a
PITA to get to unless you live in the right place.

--
David Cantrell | even more awesome than a panda-fur coat

What is the difference between hearing aliens through the
fillings in your teeth and hearing Jesus in your heart?

Heathrow CC
 

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 15:18:00 on Thu, 26 Sep
2019, tim... remarked:
Sep 2019, MissRiaElaine remarked:
There are some 24-hour buses to Heathrow, such as the 140.

Sure, but can all the staff cram onto that one route?

I wonder if there are staff buses that operate overnight?

And do either go where the staff actually live..?

When I was a bus driver in the Birmingham area in the late 90's/early
00's, we had a few staff buses which picked up drivers on the stupid-
o'clock starts, but they only went a limited distance from the garage
(5 miles or so I think) and I lived 7 miles away. So it was drive or
not work. The company had the attitude that it was your
responsibility to get to work and if you couldn't for whatever
reason, tough, find another job...

It's a bit more difficult to have that attitude at a place like
Heathrow. I think their solution is to provide ample staff car
parking, it's not as if they don't have the room.

but they do have a mandate to lessen car arrivals at the airport

I doubt that staff travel is exempted from that requirement

Which is precisely why Heathrow Connect exists[1]. It's not a back-door
into Heathrow for skinflint passengers, it's for staff.

Nonsense

it's for people who live on the line [1] to have a service direct to LHR
without having to go to Paddington and back

Staff or customers (or just people changing transport mode)

tim

[1] or even live on a line where a change to underground at Ealing makes
sense

Heathrow CC
 

"Trolleybus" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 26 Sep 2019 15:38:05 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 15:18:00 on Thu, 26 Sep
2019, tim... remarked:
Sep 2019, MissRiaElaine remarked:
There are some 24-hour buses to Heathrow, such as the 140.

Sure, but can all the staff cram onto that one route?

I wonder if there are staff buses that operate overnight?

And do either go where the staff actually live..?

When I was a bus driver in the Birmingham area in the late 90's/early
00's, we had a few staff buses which picked up drivers on the stupid-
o'clock starts, but they only went a limited distance from the garage
(5 miles or so I think) and I lived 7 miles away. So it was drive or
not work. The company had the attitude that it was your
responsibility to get to work and if you couldn't for whatever
reason, tough, find another job...

It's a bit more difficult to have that attitude at a place like
Heathrow. I think their solution is to provide ample staff car
parking, it's not as if they don't have the room.

but they do have a mandate to lessen car arrivals at the airport

I doubt that staff travel is exempted from that requirement

Which is precisely why Heathrow Connect exists[1]. It's not a back-door
into Heathrow for skinflint passengers, it's for staff.

Staff are also latgely the reason that bus travel is free in and
around Heathrow

didn't they introduce free transport in the LHR area to save on having to
run land side transfer buses

tim

Heathrow CC
 

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 14:51:23 on Thu, 26 Sep 2019,
tim... remarked:

Someone I know had to get the first bus of the day to check in from a
perimeter hotel to the central terminals. How would the check in staff
get there.

there are 5 night routes that run from the Northern Perimeter Road (which
IME is where all the hotels are) to the central Terminals and one to T5

The [hotels along] northern perimeter road are not a point source,

but it was the example given, to which I was replying

nor are they mopped up by every bus. It's very patchy.

If someone is choosing to stay at an LHR hotel but needs to leave before the
hotel hopper starts at 4am, they really ought to select their hotel
carefully if they are looking to travel to the terminal by bus

tim


--
Roland Perry

Heathrow CC
 

tim... wrote:


"Trolleybus" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 26 Sep 2019 15:38:05 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 15:18:00 on Thu, 26 Sep
2019, tim... remarked:
Sep 2019, MissRiaElaine remarked:
There are some 24-hour buses to Heathrow, such as the 140.

Sure, but can all the staff cram onto that one route?

I wonder if there are staff buses that operate overnight?

And do either go where the staff actually live..?

When I was a bus driver in the Birmingham area in the late 90's/early
00's, we had a few staff buses which picked up drivers on the stupid-
o'clock starts, but they only went a limited distance from the garage
(5 miles or so I think) and I lived 7 miles away. So it was drive or
not work. The company had the attitude that it was your
responsibility to get to work and if you couldn't for whatever
reason, tough, find another job...

It's a bit more difficult to have that attitude at a place like
Heathrow. I think their solution is to provide ample staff car
parking, it's not as if they don't have the room.

but they do have a mandate to lessen car arrivals at the airport

I doubt that staff travel is exempted from that requirement

Which is precisely why Heathrow Connect exists[1]. It's not a back-door
into Heathrow for skinflint passengers, it's for staff.

Staff are also latgely the reason that bus travel is free in and
around Heathrow

didn't they introduce free transport in the LHR area to save on having to
run land side transfer buses


I can't remember, but you may well be right. Overall, it's probably a
cheaper, simpler solution.

Heathrow CC
 

wrote in message ...
On Thu, 26 Sep 2019 13:21:23 +0100
MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 23/09/2019 20:47, Recliner wrote:
MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 23/09/2019 16:32, wrote:

I used to work near heathrow and the number of people travelling there
by
private car was a small percentage of the total. I don't see why that
would

change with a 3rd runway. And my office overlooked one of the parking
pounds
of one of the private parking companies. Anyone who had seen what
those
****wits
got up to with their prized possesion would never park at heathrow
again.

They should never have gone for a 3rd runway at Heathrow. A second
runway at Gatwick would make far more sense.

Not according to the official Airports Commission, the majority of
passengers or the airlines.

Well, whatever as they say. I would certainly prefer to use Gatwick than
Heathrow any day.

Bit of a PITA to get to unless you live near the airport or the brighton
main
line.

or anywhere in Central, North and East London for which it is just as easy
to take the tube to Victoria as the Piccadilly all the way to LHR.

tim

Heathrow CC
 

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 14:47:20 on Sat, 28 Sep 2019,
Recliner remarked:

I live north of the river, and my rail journeys to and from Heathrow
are always on the Piccadilly line. The Picc serves far more stations in
London than Crossrail will.

It's a rather tedious way to get to and from work at Heathrow, if you
live north of Kings Cross.

Is there a better way using PT? Obviously, people who don't live near a
Piccadilly line station might change to the line at, say, Finsbury Park.

As the Irishman asked for directions famously said "I wouldn't start from
there".

so if you have a long term job at LHR moving house seems the most
appropriate solution

tim

Heathrow CC
 

On 02/10/2019 10:32, tim... wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Thu, 26 Sep 2019 13:21:23 +0100
MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 23/09/2019 20:47, Recliner wrote:
MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 23/09/2019 16:32, wrote:

I used to work near heathrow and the number of people travelling
there by
private car was a small percentage of the total. I don't see why
that would

change with a 3rd runway. And my office overlooked one of the parking
pounds
of one of the private parking companies. Anyone who had seen what
those
****wits
got up to with their prized possesion would never park at heathrow
again.

They should never have gone for a 3rd runway at Heathrow. A second
runway at Gatwick would make far more sense.

Not according to the official Airports Commission, the majority of
passengers or the airlines.

Well, whatever as they say. I would certainly prefer to use Gatwick than
Heathrow any day.

Bit of a PITA to get to unless you live near the airport or the
brighton main
line.

or anywhere in Central, North and East London for which it is just as
easy to take the tube to Victoria as the Piccadilly all the way to LHR.

It would help those in East London if the Overground connected slightly
better with a train to Gatwick - I think there are once an hour
connections at Norwood Junction, but the National Rail planner generally
seems fairly ignorant of them and doesn't bring them up

Heathrow CC
 

In message , at 10:21:22 on Wed, 2 Oct 2019,
tim... remarked:


"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 15:18:00 on Thu, 26 Sep
2019, tim... remarked:
Sep 2019, MissRiaElaine remarked:
There are some 24-hour buses to Heathrow, such as the 140.

Sure, but can all the staff cram onto that one route?

I wonder if there are staff buses that operate overnight?

And do either go where the staff actually live..?

When I was a bus driver in the Birmingham area in the late 90's/early
00's, we had a few staff buses which picked up drivers on the stupid-
o'clock starts, but they only went a limited distance from the garage
(5 miles or so I think) and I lived 7 miles away. So it was drive or
not work. The company had the attitude that it was your
responsibility to get to work and if you couldn't for whatever
reason, tough, find another job...

It's a bit more difficult to have that attitude at a place like
Heathrow. I think their solution is to provide ample staff car
parking, it's not as if they don't have the room.

but they do have a mandate to lessen car arrivals at the airport

I doubt that staff travel is exempted from that requirement

Which is precisely why Heathrow Connect exists[1]. It's not a back-door
into Heathrow for skinflint passengers, it's for staff.

Nonsense

it's for people who live on the line [1] to have a service direct to
LHR without having to go to Paddington and back

That's the secondary purpose, but isn't really a "back door" because the
"front door" of a train to Paddington and HEx back is bonkers.

Staff or customers (or just people changing transport mode)

tim

[1] or even live on a line where a change to underground at Ealing
makes sense

--
Roland Perry

Heathrow CC
 

In message , at 10:30:20 on Wed, 2 Oct 2019,
tim... remarked:


"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 14:51:23 on Thu, 26 Sep
2019, tim... remarked:

Someone I know had to get the first bus of the day to check in from
a perimeter hotel to the central terminals. How would the check in
staff get there.

there are 5 night routes that run from the Northern Perimeter Road
(which IME is where all the hotels are) to the central Terminals and
one to T5

The [hotels along] northern perimeter road are not a point source,

but it was the example given, to which I was replying

I asked "how would staff get there to check those pax in"?

nor are they mopped up by every bus. It's very patchy.

If someone is choosing to stay at an LHR hotel but needs to leave
before the hotel hopper starts at 4am, they really ought to select
their hotel carefully if they are looking to travel to the terminal by
bus

Many of the hotels advertise a hotel transfer service, but this turns
out to be a minicab in many cases.
--
Roland Perry

Heathrow CC
 

In message , at 10:34:39 on Wed, 2 Oct 2019,
tim... remarked:

I live north of the river, and my rail journeys to and from Heathrow
are always on the Piccadilly line. The Picc serves far more stations in
London than Crossrail will.

It's a rather tedious way to get to and from work at Heathrow, if you
live north of Kings Cross.

Is there a better way using PT? Obviously, people who don't live near a
Piccadilly line station might change to the line at, say, Finsbury Park.

As the Irishman asked for directions famously said "I wouldn't start
from there".

so if you have a long term job at LHR moving house seems the most
appropriate solution

What are these long term jobs of which you speak? And moving house to be
near a job, especially one like Heathrow, isn't a walk in the park.
--
Roland Perry

Heathrow CC
 

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 10:30:20 on Wed, 2 Oct 2019,
tim... remarked:


"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 14:51:23 on Thu, 26 Sep
2019, tim... remarked:

Someone I know had to get the first bus of the day to check in from a
perimeter hotel to the central terminals. How would the check in staff
get there.

there are 5 night routes that run from the Northern Perimeter Road
(which IME is where all the hotels are) to the central Terminals and one
to T5

The [hotels along] northern perimeter road are not a point source,

but it was the example given, to which I was replying

I asked "how would staff get there to check those pax in"?

nor are they mopped up by every bus. It's very patchy.

If someone is choosing to stay at an LHR hotel but needs to leave before
the hotel hopper starts at 4am, they really ought to select their hotel
carefully if they are looking to travel to the terminal by bus

Many of the hotels advertise a hotel transfer service, but this turns out
to be a minicab in many cases.

a pre-arranged Taxi it almost always is (not all countries have the concept
of mini-cabs)

the world over

tim

Heathrow CC
 

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 10:34:39 on Wed, 2 Oct 2019,
tim... remarked:

I live north of the river, and my rail journeys to and from Heathrow
are always on the Piccadilly line. The Picc serves far more stations
in
London than Crossrail will.

It's a rather tedious way to get to and from work at Heathrow, if you
live north of Kings Cross.

Is there a better way using PT? Obviously, people who don't live near
a
Piccadilly line station might change to the line at, say, Finsbury Park.

As the Irishman asked for directions famously said "I wouldn't start
from there".

so if you have a long term job at LHR moving house seems the most
appropriate solution

What are these long term jobs of which you speak?

Working full time at the airport

If there is any "low" skilled job that has security, this has to be it.

And moving house to be near a job, especially one like Heathrow, isn't a
walk in the park.

If you already live in a different part of London it is. Hounslow is not a
prime London property location

tim

Heathrow CC
 

In message , at 19:14:28 on Wed, 2 Oct 2019,
tim... remarked:


"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 10:34:39 on Wed, 2 Oct
2019, tim... remarked:

I live north of the river, and my rail journeys to and from Heathrow
are always on the Piccadilly line. The Picc serves far more
stations in
London than Crossrail will.

It's a rather tedious way to get to and from work at Heathrow, if you
live north of Kings Cross.

Is there a better way using PT? Obviously, people who don't live
near a
Piccadilly line station might change to the line at, say, Finsbury Park.

As the Irishman asked for directions famously said "I wouldn't
start from there".

so if you have a long term job at LHR moving house seems the most
appropriate solution

What are these long term jobs of which you speak?

Working full time at the airport

If there is any "low" skilled job that has security, this has to be it.

There's still plenty of opportunity to be working for an employer who
goes broke or decide not to have a base at HR any more, or be replaced
by a machine (baggage handling a prime example).

And moving house to be near a job, especially one like Heathrow, isn't
a walk in the park.

If you already live in a different part of London it is.

Moving further than a sensible commute for the children to get to their
original school is difficult.

Hounslow is not a prime London property location

For a reason. And hence why would people want to move there?
--
Roland Perry

Heathrow CC
 

On Wed, Oct 02, 2019 at 04:39:40PM +0100, Roland Perry wrote:

And moving house to be near a job, especially one like Heathrow, isn't
a walk in the park.

It's something that vast numbers of people did in the past, and that a
lot of people still do. I've done it myself.

--
David Cantrell | Hero of the Information Age

Longum iter est per praecepta, breve et efficax per exempla.

Heathrow CC
 

On Thu, 03 Oct 2019 12:43:48 +0100
David Cantrell wrote:
On Wed, Oct 02, 2019 at 04:39:40PM +0100, Roland Perry wrote:

And moving house to be near a job, especially one like Heathrow, isn't
a walk in the park.

It's something that vast numbers of people did in the past, and that a
lot of people still do. I've done it myself.

Not quite so easy if you have a spouse who also works and kids who go to school.
Are they supposed to just up sticks because you've had enough of your commute?

Heathrow CC
 

In message , at 12:43:48
on Thu, 3 Oct 2019, David Cantrell remarked:

And moving house to be near a job, especially one like Heathrow, isn't
a walk in the park.

It's something that vast numbers of people did in the past, and that a
lot of people still do. I've done it myself.

Like the Lille Shuffle, it's something which can be done, but
has drawbacks.
--
Roland Perry

Heathrow CC
 

Many of the hotels advertise a hotel transfer service, but this turns
out to be a minicab in many cases.

a pre-arranged Taxi it almost always is (not all countries have the
concept of mini-cabs)

the world over

tim

Is this a problem for you.? Or are there more than four people that need
to go to the airport at once...

Heathrow CC
 

On 02/10/2019 16:39, Roland Perry wrote:

so if you have a long term job at LHR moving house seems the most
appropriate solution

What are these long term jobs of which you speak? And moving house to be
near a job, especially one like Heathrow, isn't a walk in the park.

If as seems to be the case a lot of people have to rent privately if
working in the London area, then a move is not out of the question as
most leases are for six months at a time. And it's a move to make travel
to work easier rather than have multiple changes on PT.

Heathrow CC
 

In message , at 13:29:20 on Thu, 3 Oct
2019, Sammi Gray-Jones remarked:


Many of the hotels advertise a hotel transfer service, but this
turns out to be a minicab in many cases.
a pre-arranged Taxi it almost always is (not all countries have the
concept of mini-cabs)
the world over
tim

Is this a problem for you.? Or are there more than four people that
need to go to the airport at once...

I have two problems with it:

1) The fare is likely to be much higher than a minibus
2) Experience shows that airport shuttle buses are much more reliable
--
Roland Perry

Heathrow CC
 

In message , at 13:35:51 on Thu, 3 Oct
2019, Sammi Gray-Jones remarked:
On 02/10/2019 16:39, Roland Perry wrote:

so if you have a long term job at LHR moving house seems the most
appropriate solution
What are these long term jobs of which you speak? And moving house
to be near a job, especially one like Heathrow, isn't a walk in the
park.

If as seems to be the case a lot of people have to rent privately if
working in the London area, then a move is not out of the question as
most leases are for six months at a time. And it's a move to make
travel to work easier rather than have multiple changes on PT.

It's still uprooting the whole family.
--
Roland Perry

Heathrow CC
 

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 19:14:28 on Wed, 2 Oct 2019,
tim... remarked:


"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 10:34:39 on Wed, 2 Oct 2019,
tim... remarked:

I live north of the river, and my rail journeys to and from
Heathrow
are always on the Piccadilly line. The Picc serves far more
stations in
London than Crossrail will.

It's a rather tedious way to get to and from work at Heathrow, if
you
live north of Kings Cross.

Is there a better way using PT? Obviously, people who don't live
near a
Piccadilly line station might change to the line at, say, Finsbury
Park.

As the Irishman asked for directions famously said "I wouldn't start
from there".

so if you have a long term job at LHR moving house seems the most
appropriate solution

What are these long term jobs of which you speak?

Working full time at the airport

If there is any "low" skilled job that has security, this has to be it.

There's still plenty of opportunity to be working for an employer who goes
broke or decide not to have a base at HR any more, or be replaced by a
machine (baggage handling a prime example).

And moving house to be near a job, especially one like Heathrow, isn't a
walk in the park.

If you already live in a different part of London it is.

Moving further than a sensible commute for the children to get to their
original school is difficult.

so they move school

thousands of children do it every year

it's not impossible


Hounslow is not a prime London property location

For a reason. And hence why would people want to move there?

Because if they are in London and can only afford "Hounslow" prices, they
will already be living in an undesirable area of London

But if you can afford more there are are desirable areas that are commutable
as well

I am making the point that if you already live in London and you move, you
can make a like for like move at your price point and still be in a area
with the same amount of desirableness (or un-desirableness).

You don't have to find an extra 300K because the starting point is 300K more
than where you have come from

tim

Heathrow CC
 

"Sammi Gray-Jones" wrote in message
...


Many of the hotels advertise a hotel transfer service, but this turns
out to be a minicab in many cases.

a pre-arranged Taxi it almost always is (not all countries have the
concept of mini-cabs)

the world over

tim

Is this a problem for you.?

not really

I just dislike hotels that advertise "airport shuttle available" when what
they mean is "if you ask the desk we will ring up a taxi for you, which you
will pay for". That's hardly a service that merits shouting about - it's a
bog standard service that every hotel above a minimum standard offers.

tim

Heathrow CC
 

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 13:35:51 on Thu, 3 Oct 2019,
Sammi Gray-Jones remarked:
On 02/10/2019 16:39, Roland Perry wrote:

so if you have a long term job at LHR moving house seems the most
appropriate solution
What are these long term jobs of which you speak? And moving house to
be near a job, especially one like Heathrow, isn't a walk in the park.

If as seems to be the case a lot of people have to rent privately if
working in the London area, then a move is not out of the question as most
leases are for six months at a time. And it's a move to make travel to
work easier rather than have multiple changes on PT.

It's still uprooting the whole family.

but you make that choice when you take the job

suffer the commute or move

if you're not prepared to do either, don't take the job

tim


--
Roland Perry

Heathrow CC
 

On Thu, Oct 03, 2019 at 11:56:27AM +0000, wrote:
On Thu, 03 Oct 2019 12:43:48 +0100
David Cantrell wrote:
On Wed, Oct 02, 2019 at 04:39:40PM +0100, Roland Perry wrote:
And moving house to be near a job, especially one like Heathrow, isn't
a walk in the park.
It's something that vast numbers of people did in the past, and that a
lot of people still do. I've done it myself.
Not quite so easy if you have a spouse who also works and kids who go to school.
Are they supposed to just up sticks because you've had enough of your commute?

I repeat, it's something that lots of people have done, and lots of
people do do, so is clearly not completely unreasonable. A family is all
about compromise though and I don't pretend, unlike some people on the
internet, to have The Answer For Everyone.

--
David Cantrell | London Perl Mongers Deputy Chief Heretic

If you can read this, thank a teacher.
If you're reading it in English, thank Chaucer.

Heathrow CC
 

In message , at 10:47:38
on Fri, 4 Oct 2019, David Cantrell remarked:
On Thu, Oct 03, 2019 at 11:56:27AM +0000, wrote:
On Thu, 03 Oct 2019 12:43:48 +0100
David Cantrell wrote:
On Wed, Oct 02, 2019 at 04:39:40PM +0100, Roland Perry wrote:
And moving house to be near a job, especially one like Heathrow, isn't
a walk in the park.
It's something that vast numbers of people did in the past, and that a
lot of people still do. I've done it myself.
Not quite so easy if you have a spouse who also works and kids who go
to school.
Are they supposed to just up sticks because you've had enough of your
commute?

I repeat, it's something that lots of people have done, and lots of
people do do, so is clearly not completely unreasonable.

First you have to finds a school with places, and the good ones are
likely to be full. Even if you are turning up for the first year of
Secondary because the allocations will have been done 9mths earlier.

The children will lose their friends, places on sports teams, have a new
set of teachers, strange classmates, quite likely a different syllabus
with some subjects not available, and in the run-up to public exams this
can be very seriously disrupting.

Picking things up part-way through an academic year just makes it worse.

Buying new school uniforms is just a drop in the ocean.

A family is all about compromise though and I don't pretend, unlike
some people on the internet, to have The Answer For Everyone.

A lot of people move to be near a school they want for their children.
That's a compromise where parents likely have a longer commute.
--
Roland Perry

Heathrow CC
 

In message , at 14:00:30 on Thu, 3 Oct 2019,
tim... remarked:

And moving house to be near a job, especially one like Heathrow,
isn't a walk in the park.

If you already live in a different part of London it is.

Moving further than a sensible commute for the children to get to
their original school is difficult.

so they move school

thousands of children do it every year

it's not impossible

See my reply to David.

Hounslow is not a prime London property location

For a reason. And hence why would people want to move there?

Because if they are in London and can only afford "Hounslow" prices,
they will already be living in an undesirable area of London

Not true. Price reflects convenience as well as posh-ness.

But if you can afford more there are are desirable areas that are
commutable as well

By bus, remember (unless you are looking at only the Heathrow Connect/
Piccadilly Line corridor).

I am making the point that if you already live in London and you move,
you can make a like for like move at your price point and still be in a
area with the same amount of desirableness (or un-desirableness).

You don't have to find an extra 300K because the starting point is 300K
more than where you have come from

People relying on public transport are usually a bit below that price
bracket. Renting, probably (with mobility in public housing severely
restricted).
--
Roland Perry