Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 17:53:50 on Sun, 3 Nov 2019,
Recliner remarked:
https://www.independent.co.uk/travel...heathrow-expre
ss-ticket-cheap-train-fares-airport-crossrail-travel-a9165661.html

Interesting, I wondered how HEx would respond. But it sounds like the
cheapest tickets will only be available a long way in advance.


I do not understand anything of the prices for this train.
25 pounds
22 pounds
12,50 pounds
5,50 pounds
16,50 pounds
7,50 pounds
6 pounds
5,10 pounds
3,10 pounds

"cash fare"?
"peak contactless fare"?
"off-peak fare"? (I think I understand this, but do not know the
off-peak times)

How do you explains this to foreigners arriving at Heathrow?

Just charge them the most expensive fare, as they won't know otherwise
(if they've researched it in advance, they'd know). It's a privately
owned airport service, competing with taxis not with other forms of
scheduled public transport.

That's no longer the case when Crossrail is fully open. Any local, and most
visitors, will be better off using Crossrail: quicker, fewer changes, hgher
frequency, cheaper. Only people travelling from Paddington itself to T5
might have a slightly faster journey using HEx; everyone else will have a
more convenient journey on Crossrail.

The market is more segmented than you suggest. Visitors will be
conditioned to seek out the "Airport Express" service, which they know
will shield them from the complexities of the local commuter services.

(Even though sometimes, like Stansted Express, the operational
difference is wafer thin)

Clearly, many of the people using HEx today aren't heading for hotels or
business meetings (or even onward rail transport) in the Paddington
area, so they'll continue to use Paddington as the railhead, and let's
face it the facilities for travellers there are far better than
Tottenham Court Crossrail.

Similarly, on the way back getting to Paddington is "safety" as it's in
effect an airport annex. If using Crossrail, people won't feel
completely comfortable until they've got to the Terminal.

Bearing in mind, always, that their audience is people who would
otherwise have got a taxi from the airport, not those adventurous enough
to take the tube or Heathrow Connect.

The fact that they're suddenly providing all these new discounted options
proves that HEx lacks your deep insights into airport express services.

On the contrary, news of these price cuts are unlikely to make their way
through to their main target market, who will continue to pay the full
price. Meanwhile, in the UK some gullible people might be persuaded that
HEx isn't as expensive (as a commuter service, which isn't its target
market) after all.

It's not just tourists and Heathrow workers who have to get to the airport:
plenty of British travellers and savvy foreign travellers use the airport
too. Any of them who have been HEx users will switch to Crossrail when it's
fully open, and not just because it's cheaper. That won't leave enough
premium payers on HEx to keep it viable.

In article ,
Roland Perry wrote:
The fact that they're suddenly providing all these new discounted options
proves that HEx lacks your deep insights into airport express services.

On the contrary, news of these price cuts are unlikely to make their way
through to their main target market, ...

Despite what that article said, HeX has been offering restricted
discount tickets for years. In 2015 I paid £16.10 for a ticket and
last year £14.30. I believe there were some exotic under £10 tix last
year if you knew 90 days ahead that you'd be travelling on a Sunday.

Seems to me that a sensible person books his train tix when he books
his flights, which for vacations and conferences can often be months
ahead. That's what I do and is how I got those (sort of) low fares.

It also seems to me that when Crossrail is running through trains, the
HeX time advantage will be a lost for many places Crossrail goes
beyond Paddington. It's not just the fares.

Perhaps we could have volunteer anti-touts saying "don't buy those silly
express tickets, just tap your credit card and take the cheap train."

--
Regards,
John Levine, , Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

On Sun, 3 Nov 2019 22:16:22 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:
On the contrary, news of these price cuts are unlikely to make their way
through to their main target market, who will continue to pay the full
price. Meanwhile, in the UK some gullible people might be persuaded that
HEx isn't as expensive (as a commuter service, which isn't its target
market) after all.

It's not just tourists and Heathrow workers who have to get to the airport:
plenty of British travellers and savvy foreign travellers use the airport
too. Any of them who have been HEx users will switch to Crossrail when it's
fully open, and not just because it's cheaper. That won't leave enough
premium payers on HEx to keep it viable.

I suspect even the owners of HEx know it'll be dead in the water once
crossrail opens and are probably just grateful for every extra month crossrail
is delayed.

wrote:
On Sun, 3 Nov 2019 22:16:22 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:
On the contrary, news of these price cuts are unlikely to make their way
through to their main target market, who will continue to pay the full
price. Meanwhile, in the UK some gullible people might be persuaded that
HEx isn't as expensive (as a commuter service, which isn't its target
market) after all.

It's not just tourists and Heathrow workers who have to get to the airport:
plenty of British travellers and savvy foreign travellers use the airport
too. Any of them who have been HEx users will switch to Crossrail when it's
fully open, and not just because it's cheaper. That won't leave enough
premium payers on HEx to keep it viable.

I suspect even the owners of HEx know it'll be dead in the water once
crossrail opens and are probably just grateful for every extra month crossrail
is delayed.

Yes, the two-year Crossrail delay has been a real bonus for HAL.

In message , at 22:52:34 on Sun, 3 Nov 2019,
John Levine remarked:
In article ,
Roland Perry wrote:
The fact that they're suddenly providing all these new discounted options
proves that HEx lacks your deep insights into airport express services.

On the contrary, news of these price cuts are unlikely to make their way
through to their main target market, ...

Despite what that article said, HeX has been offering restricted
discount tickets for years. In 2015 I paid £16.10 for a ticket and
last year £14.30. I believe there were some exotic under £10 tix last
year if you knew 90 days ahead that you'd be travelling on a Sunday.

Seems to me that a sensible person books his train tix when he books
his flights, which for vacations and conferences can often be months
ahead. That's what I do and is how I got those (sort of) low fares.

I don't think you are a very typical traveller. Most are very
unadventurous when it comes to foreign countries, and hence the race for
taxis (and HEx's mission to replace taxis).

I wouldn't expect to be able to understand how to pick up pre-booked
train tickets at a random overseas airport, and there's a limit to how
much we can say "trust us, it's easy in the UK".

As a result, and even as a more adventurous traveller (colleagues were
amazed I dared get a bus from Geneva to the airport, and didn't even
consider rail) I think I've only once got a train on first arrival at a
suitably equipped overseas airport.

That was Brisbane, which has the advantage of speaking (approx) English,
and I was going somewhere an hour away which happened to be on the same
line, rather than just the city centre.

Of course, having worked things out, I have a few times taken a train
*back* to the airport, or used one on a second or subsequent visit. I
was a bit put off by the difficulty of collecting a pre-bought TGV
ticket in Paris, though.

It also seems to me that when Crossrail is running through trains, the
HeX time advantage will be a lost for many places Crossrail goes
beyond Paddington. It's not just the fares.

How many of the Crossrail stations will have taxi ranks? I presume
they'll at least all have lifts to avoid having to haul baggage up
escalators.

Perhaps we could have volunteer anti-touts saying "don't buy those silly
express tickets, just tap your credit card and take the cheap train."

Or if it's a family holiday "find 4 credit cards between you, to tap".

And how widespread is contactless outside the UK? The USA is catching up
rapidly, but is probably still in single figure percentages.
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 22:16:22 on Sun, 3 Nov 2019,
Recliner remarked:

It's not just tourists and Heathrow workers who have to get to the airport:
plenty of British travellers and savvy foreign travellers use the airport
too. Any of them who have been HEx users will switch to Crossrail when it's
fully open, and not just because it's cheaper. That won't leave enough
premium payers on HEx to keep it viable.

It'll leave all the first-time visitors, which will probably be the
majority. Plus all the less confident ones who inherently distrust
foreign commuter services rather than airport expresses.
--
Roland Perry

On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 09:38:02 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 22:16:22 on Sun, 3 Nov 2019,
Recliner remarked:

It's not just tourists and Heathrow workers who have to get to the airport:
plenty of British travellers and savvy foreign travellers use the airport
too. Any of them who have been HEx users will switch to Crossrail when it's
fully open, and not just because it's cheaper. That won't leave enough
premium payers on HEx to keep it viable.

It'll leave all the first-time visitors, which will probably be the

Why would it? I'm sure most of them can read a metro map and will immediately
spot the lines that go to central london and won't much care for the one
that goes to a bears home.

majority. Plus all the less confident ones who inherently distrust
foreign commuter services rather than airport expresses.

Can't be many of them.

In message , at 20:05:39 on Wed, 6 Nov
2019, remarked:
On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 09:38:02 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 22:16:22 on Sun, 3 Nov 2019,
Recliner remarked:

It's not just tourists and Heathrow workers who have to get to the airport:
plenty of British travellers and savvy foreign travellers use the airport
too. Any of them who have been HEx users will switch to Crossrail when it's
fully open, and not just because it's cheaper. That won't leave enough
premium payers on HEx to keep it viable.

It'll leave all the first-time visitors, which will probably be the

Why would it? I'm sure most of them can read a metro map and will immediately
spot the lines that go to central london and won't much care for the one
that goes to a bears home.

For the reasons I've explained why airport express services are more
attractive than the local commuter services.

majority. Plus all the less confident ones who inherently distrust
foreign commuter services rather than airport expresses.

Can't be many of them.

I think it's a majority. Local commuter services have a poor reputation,
the New York subways being the poster boy.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 20:05:39 on Wed, 6 Nov
2019, remarked:
On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 09:38:02 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 22:16:22 on Sun, 3 Nov 2019,
Recliner remarked:

It's not just tourists and Heathrow workers who have to get to the airport:
plenty of British travellers and savvy foreign travellers use the airport
too. Any of them who have been HEx users will switch to Crossrail when it's
fully open, and not just because it's cheaper. That won't leave enough
premium payers on HEx to keep it viable.

It'll leave all the first-time visitors, which will probably be the

Why would it? I'm sure most of them can read a metro map and will immediately
spot the lines that go to central london and won't much care for the one
that goes to a bears home.

For the reasons I've explained why airport express services are more
attractive than the local commuter services.

majority. Plus all the less confident ones who inherently distrust
foreign commuter services rather than airport expresses.

Can't be many of them.

I think it's a majority. Local commuter services have a poor reputation,
the New York subways being the poster boy.

Remember that HEx and Crossrail will be using the same stations and even
the same platforms at Heathrow. That doesn't happen with local commuter
services.

Someone trying to catch HEx from T4 will actually have to start their
journey on a Crossrail train and change at Central, and perhaps again at
Paddington, rather than just taking a through train. They'll be able to
realise their mistake while looking at the route map on the Crossrail
train. People waiting for a HEx train at Heathrow Central might have to let
a Crossrail service go first, from the same platform. That's not like the
Tube or Gatwick Southern services, which aren't visible from the Express
platforms.

This, of course, will probably lead to confusion between the services: will
people always get on their intended train?

In article ,
Roland Perry wrote:
majority. Plus all the less confident ones who inherently distrust
foreign commuter services rather than airport expresses.

Can't be many of them.

I think it's a majority. Local commuter services have a poor reputation,
the New York subways being the poster boy.

The NY subway doesn't go to LGA and only goes to JFK airport with a
long slow trip out to Queens with a connection to the Airtrain so I'm
not too surprised. The Long Island Railroad also goes to that
Airtrain much faster and lots of people take it. The NJ Transit train
goes to Newark airport via another airtrain and it's also quite
popular.

Elsewhere in North America, the subway or local commuter train goes to
the airports in Toronto, Boston, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Washington
DC (National), Atlanta, Chicago (both airports), Dallas, St Louis, San
Francisco, Portland OR, Seattle, Vancouver, and probably other places
I haven't been to. In each case there's been plenty of people on the
train with me with suitcases.

--
Regards,
John Levine, , Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly