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Recliner[_4_] December 17th 19 02:24 AM

Decarbonised Barbican street
 
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/zero-emission-street-to-totally-ban-petrol-and-diesel-vehicles-60dnjpmkk?shareToken=feb9a3f7927205b3e0f1309ba7954 349



Roland Perry December 17th 19 06:08 AM

Decarbonised Barbican street
 
In message , at 03:24:44 on Tue, 17 Dec
2019, Recliner remarked:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/z...o-totally-ban-
petrol-and-diesel-vehicles-60dnjpmkk?shareToken=feb9a3f7927205b3e0f1309b
a7954349


Does anyone make a hydrogen car which doesn't emit water vapour?
--
Roland Perry

MissRiaElaine December 17th 19 01:52 PM

Decarbonised Barbican street
 
On 17/12/2019 07:08, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 03:24:44 on Tue, 17 Dec
2019, Recliner remarked:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/z...o-totally-ban-
petrol-and-diesel-vehicles-60dnjpmkk?shareToken=feb9a3f7927205b3e0f1309b
a7954349


Does anyone make a hydrogen car which doesn't emit water vapour?


I love hydrogen cars, I just wish more people would take them up, rather
than pure battery electric vehicles.

We have a fleet of hydrogen buses here in Aberdeen, also there is a
local car club which have a few Toyota Mirai H2 cars on the fleet. The
only problem for cars is the lack of refuelling stations elsewhere in
the country.

--
Ria in Aberdeen

[Send address is invalid, use sipsoup at gmail dot com to reply direct]

Recliner[_4_] December 17th 19 03:28 PM

Decarbonised Barbican street
 
MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 17/12/2019 07:08, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 03:24:44 on Tue, 17 Dec
2019, Recliner remarked:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/z...o-totally-ban-
petrol-and-diesel-vehicles-60dnjpmkk?shareToken=feb9a3f7927205b3e0f1309b
a7954349


Does anyone make a hydrogen car which doesn't emit water vapour?


I love hydrogen cars, I just wish more people would take them up, rather
than pure battery electric vehicles.

We have a fleet of hydrogen buses here in Aberdeen, also there is a
local car club which have a few Toyota Mirai H2 cars on the fleet. The
only problem for cars is the lack of refuelling stations elsewhere in
the country.


Yes, it's that lack of refuelling infrastructure that's holding back
hydrogen cars. Of course, they're still very expensive to build, and so
need a big subsidy. That'll change when volumes rise, but that needs more
refuelling points.

It's easier with buses and trucks plying set routes. Long distance trucks,
in particular, are much more likely to use hydrogen than pure batteries, as
they can have a longer range and much faster refuelling.


[email protected] December 18th 19 02:56 PM

Decarbonised Barbican street
 
On Tue, 17 Dec 2019 16:28:33 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 17/12/2019 07:08, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 03:24:44 on Tue, 17 Dec
2019, Recliner remarked:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/z...o-totally-ban-
petrol-and-diesel-vehicles-60dnjpmkk?shareToken=feb9a3f7927205b3e0f1309b
a7954349

Does anyone make a hydrogen car which doesn't emit water vapour?


I love hydrogen cars, I just wish more people would take them up, rather
than pure battery electric vehicles.

We have a fleet of hydrogen buses here in Aberdeen, also there is a
local car club which have a few Toyota Mirai H2 cars on the fleet. The
only problem for cars is the lack of refuelling stations elsewhere in
the country.


Yes, it's that lack of refuelling infrastructure that's holding back
hydrogen cars. Of course, they're still very expensive to build, and so
need a big subsidy. That'll change when volumes rise, but that needs more
refuelling points.

It's easier with buses and trucks plying set routes. Long distance trucks,
in particular, are much more likely to use hydrogen than pure batteries, as
they can have a longer range and much faster refuelling.


Hydrogen requires huge amounts of energy to split from water** and a lot of
energy to compress and to keep it cold and it doesn't get on very well with a
lot of metals over time. Also fuel cells need replacing just like batteries
after a number of years.

** Unless you get it from natural gas and in the process waste a lot of the
energy you would have got from just burning methan but still release all the
carbon that was in it anyway so making it anything but green.


MissRiaElaine December 18th 19 03:11 PM

Decarbonised Barbican street
 
On 18/12/2019 15:56, wrote:

Hydrogen requires huge amounts of energy to split from water** and a lot of
energy to compress and to keep it cold and it doesn't get on very well with a
lot of metals over time. Also fuel cells need replacing just like batteries
after a number of years.

** Unless you get it from natural gas and in the process waste a lot of the
energy you would have got from just burning methan but still release all the
carbon that was in it anyway so making it anything but green.


Wind. Put the necessary equipment at the base of every wind turbine,
there are enough out there. No energy waste at all.

Yes, of course fuel cells need replacing, but so do batteries, and fuel
cells are a lot lighter. Plus the car doesn't need refuelling any more
frequently than the equivalent petrol/diesel car. Battery electrics need
charging far too frequently and if you don't live in a property with
your own driveway or garage, where do you charge it..?

What about on a long journey..? Are you going to sit in a queue for a
charger at a motorway services for three hours while several people in
front of you take a minimum of half an hour to charge up..?


--
Ria in Aberdeen

[Send address is invalid, use sipsoup at gmail dot com to reply direct]

Roland Perry December 18th 19 03:15 PM

Decarbonised Barbican street
 
In message , at 16:11:02 on Wed, 18
Dec 2019, MissRiaElaine remarked:
Hydrogen requires huge amounts of energy to split from water** and a lot of
energy to compress and to keep it cold and it doesn't get on very well with a
lot of metals over time. Also fuel cells need replacing just like batteries
after a number of years.
** Unless you get it from natural gas and in the process waste a lot
of the
energy you would have got from just burning methan but still release all the
carbon that was in it anyway so making it anything but green.


Wind. Put the necessary equipment at the base of every wind turbine,
there are enough out there. No energy waste at all.


Presumably you'd also need a new pipeline from every wind turbine to
somewhere which compressed and bottled the hydrogen for later use?
--
Roland Perry

[email protected] December 18th 19 04:12 PM

Decarbonised Barbican street
 
On Wed, 18 Dec 2019 16:11:02 +0000
MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 18/12/2019 15:56, wrote:

Hydrogen requires huge amounts of energy to split from water** and a lot of
energy to compress and to keep it cold and it doesn't get on very well with a


lot of metals over time. Also fuel cells need replacing just like batteries
after a number of years.

** Unless you get it from natural gas and in the process waste a lot of the
energy you would have got from just burning methan but still release all the
carbon that was in it anyway so making it anything but green.


Wind. Put the necessary equipment at the base of every wind turbine,
there are enough out there. No energy waste at all.


You're going to need a lot of wind turbines as its really not very efficient
at all. You're creating electricity to create H2 to react with O2 to create
electricity again. Bypass the middle man - just store the electricity directly
in a battery. Even with their inefficiencies they're still more efficient than
the H2 cycle.

Yes, of course fuel cells need replacing, but so do batteries, and fuel
cells are a lot lighter. Plus the car doesn't need refuelling any more
frequently than the equivalent petrol/diesel car. Battery electrics need
charging far too frequently and if you don't live in a property with
your own driveway or garage, where do you charge it..?

What about on a long journey..? Are you going to sit in a queue for a
charger at a motorway services for three hours while several people in
front of you take a minimum of half an hour to charge up..?


I'm not going to pretend batteries are a great solution either but hydrogen
really is a non starter for the reasons I gave plus how many people really want
a highly pressurised tank of flammable gas behind them. Petrol is dangerous
enough but at least it won't detonate if the fuel tank is puntured. Have a look
at videos on youtube to see what happens when LPG goes wrong and thats at about
1/5th the pressure of an H2 system.

Another issue H2 has is that for it to be viable a HUGE amount of infrastructure
has to be built - on a par with that of the oil industry - all at the taxpayers
expense. Plus you still have the same extra strain on the electricity grid. For
battery cars to be viable much much less infrastructure has to be built however
you then have the charging time issue. But thats the car owners problem, not
the governments. Its a no brainer to see which side this coin will land on.



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