Marland wrote:
Basil Jet wrote:
On 16/12/2020 19:58, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 17:50:32 on Wed, 16 Dec
2020, Basil Jet remarked:
On 16/12/2020 10:41, Recliner wrote:
Geoff celebrates the belated return of Thameslink to TfL's Tube Map,
after
a long absence. And it's not just the core section, but as much as
fits in
the extended zones. So the map now features over 500 stations:
Â*https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZ5SQcdC48o

The map itself is not on the TfL site yet, but curiously is available
at
https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/202...back-on-the-la
test-tube-map/

Test tube map?


Just put out to test a reaction .


No, it's officially on the Tube map for at least the next 12 months, both
because of Covid and the planned Bank branch closures:

https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/press-releases/2020/december/thameslink-services-set-to-be-temporarily-added-to-latest-tube-map-to-help-support-customers-during-the-coronavirus-pandemic

On 16/12/2020 17:50, Basil Jet wrote:
On 16/12/2020 10:41, Recliner wrote:
Geoff celebrates the belated return of Thameslink to TfL's Tube Map,
after
a long absence. And it's not just the core section, but as much as
fits in
the extended zones. So the map now features over 500 stations:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZ5SQcdC48o

The map itself is not on the TfL site yet, but curiously is available at
https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/202...test-tube-map/


They've left Hadley Wood off, despite it being in Zone 6.

I've just figured that out. They're showing Thameslink served stations
only, and Hadley Wood is only served by GN services, as are Harringay,
Hornsey and Alexandra Palace, which are also not shown on the map. The
TL trains which call at New Southgate, Oakleigh Park and New Barnet are
a peak-only service, and very much the minority of the trains that call
at those stations even in the peak, so while the map is correct for some
definition of correct, I don't think it has much meaning to the customers.

--
Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to
The Mint Chicks - 2003 - Octagon, Octagon, Octagon

On Thu, 17 Dec 2020 09:35:26 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 21:59:14 on Wed, 16 Dec 2020,
Recliner remarked:
Basil Jet wrote:
On 16/12/2020 19:58, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 17:50:32 on Wed, 16 Dec
2020, Basil Jet remarked:
On 16/12/2020 10:41, Recliner wrote:
Geoff celebrates the belated return of Thameslink to TfL's Tube Map,
after
a long absence. And it's not just the core section, but as much as
fits in
the extended zones. So the map now features over 500 stations:
Â*https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZ5SQcdC48o

The map itself is not on the TfL site yet, but curiously is available
at
https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/202...back-on-the-la
test-tube-map/

Test tube map?

No, it seems to be the final one. Here's another example:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EpWi6-7W4AMpwqv?format=jpg&name=large

Neil has suggested that the GN Moorgate line should also be added, and I
agree, but it would be hard to squeeze it in.

Looks like it would easily fit between Finsbury Park and Moorgate, but
not much space for the Hertford Loop.

I was thinking of the problems of showing and labelling the inner London
stations, while keeping the line reasonably straight.

Leaving out the Moorgate to FP section of GN - even if they don't include
the rest - is just cretinous and a disservice to passengers.

In message , at 10:28:03 on Thu, 17 Dec
2020, remarked:
On Thu, 17 Dec 2020 09:35:26 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 21:59:14 on Wed, 16 Dec 2020,
Recliner remarked:
Basil Jet wrote:
On 16/12/2020 19:58, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 17:50:32 on Wed, 16 Dec
2020, Basil Jet remarked:
On 16/12/2020 10:41, Recliner wrote:
Geoff celebrates the belated return of Thameslink to TfL's Tube Map,
after
a long absence. And it's not just the core section, but as much as
fits in
the extended zones. So the map now features over 500 stations:
Â*https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZ5SQcdC48o

The map itself is not on the TfL site yet, but curiously is available
at
https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/202...back-on-the-la
test-tube-map/

Test tube map?

No, it seems to be the final one. Here's another example:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EpWi6-7W4AMpwqv?format=jpg&name=large

Neil has suggested that the GN Moorgate line should also be added, and I
agree, but it would be hard to squeeze it in.

Looks like it would easily fit between Finsbury Park and Moorgate, but
not much space for the Hertford Loop.

I was thinking of the problems of showing and labelling the inner London
stations, while keeping the line reasonably straight.

Leaving out the Moorgate to FP section of GN - even if they don't include
the rest - is just cretinous and a disservice to passengers.

I'm not sure why it's worse than leaving out the Waterloo-Wimbledon
(etc) National Rail routes.
--
Roland Perry

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
Leaving out the Moorgate to FP section of GN - even if they don't include
the rest - is just cretinous and a disservice to passengers.

I'm not sure why it's worse than leaving out the Waterloo-Wimbledon (etc)
National Rail routes.

I'm not sure where one should draw the line (pun *not* intended!) between
which lines to include and which to omit.

You could be strict and only include traditional London Underground lines,
and exclude Thameslink and London Overground (since those were traditionally
British Rail / Network Rail).

You could additionally include London Overground. You could include GOBLIN,
North London Line and Thameslink and Finsbury Park to Moorgate. But should
you go further and include a selection of other Network Rail services?

When FP-Moorgate was first transferred to British Rail, it was included as a
courtesy service on Underground maps, maybe because until 1976 it had been a
tube line (though not a very useful one in its final days, because there was
a gap between Old Street as the northern terminus of the Moorgate line and
BR services that called at FP).

I suppose the criterion for inclusion might be whether a typical ticket for
use on the Underground would or wouldn't allow you to use a non-Underground
line that called at stations within the zones that your ticket covers. I
don't know much about Oyster and tickets bought at Underground stations
because whenever I went up to London I bought a Day Rover (Capitalcard)
ticket which covered me for my return journey into London and then unlimited
use of Underground and NR trains within the Greater London area (maybe out
to Zone 9 on the new map that is being discussed) - so I was a bit pampered
in automatically having an all-zones ticket. It's also a good 10 or more
years since I've been to London...

Am 17.12.2020 um 12:06 schrieb NY:
"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
Leaving out the Moorgate to FP section of GN - even if they don't
include
the rest - is just cretinous and a disservice to passengers.

I'm not sure why it's worse than leaving out the Waterloo-Wimbledon
(etc) National Rail routes.

I'm not sure where one should draw the line (pun *not* intended!)
between which lines to include and which to omit.

[..]

I suppose the criterion for inclusion might be whether a typical ticket
for use on the Underground would or wouldn't allow you to use a
non-Underground line that called at stations within the zones that your
ticket covers.
As a London tourist, I would have drawn the line at a service frequency
as well: There should be a minimum of 6 tph (maximum 10 minutes waiting
time) during daytime for the line to serve a meaningful purpose as a
local connection.

NY wrote:
"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
Leaving out the Moorgate to FP section of GN - even if they don't include
the rest - is just cretinous and a disservice to passengers.

I'm not sure why it's worse than leaving out the Waterloo-Wimbledon (etc)
National Rail routes.

I'm not sure where one should draw the line (pun *not* intended!) between
which lines to include and which to omit.

You could be strict and only include traditional London Underground lines,
and exclude Thameslink and London Overground (since those were traditionally
British Rail / Network Rail).

You could additionally include London Overground. You could include GOBLIN,
North London Line and Thameslink and Finsbury Park to Moorgate. But should
you go further and include a selection of other Network Rail services?

Until now, TfL has only covered TfL services. So it includes the
all-important Danglebahn and TfL services to Reading and Shenfield, but not
the Moorgate GN line or SN services to East Croydon (which gives the
impression of just being a tram stop with an NR connection, just like
Birkbeck. There's no clue that Clapham Junction has frequent direct
connections to Victoria and Waterloo, or that there's a direct line between
Marylebone and West Ruislip.


When FP-Moorgate was first transferred to British Rail, it was included as a
courtesy service on Underground maps, maybe because until 1976 it had been a
tube line (though not a very useful one in its final days, because there was
a gap between Old Street as the northern terminus of the Moorgate line and
BR services that called at FP).

I suppose the criterion for inclusion might be whether a typical ticket for
use on the Underground would or wouldn't allow you to use a non-Underground
line that called at stations within the zones that your ticket covers. I
don't know much about Oyster and tickets bought at Underground stations
because whenever I went up to London I bought a Day Rover (Capitalcard)
ticket which covered me for my return journey into London and then unlimited
use of Underground and NR trains within the Greater London area (maybe out
to Zone 9 on the new map that is being discussed) - so I was a bit pampered
in automatically having an all-zones ticket. It's also a good 10 or more
years since I've been to London...



Oyster covers the same lines as a Travelcard. So all the suburban NR lines
and stations are included.

Rolf Mantel wrote:
Am 17.12.2020 um 12:06 schrieb NY:
"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
Leaving out the Moorgate to FP section of GN - even if they don't
include
the rest - is just cretinous and a disservice to passengers.

I'm not sure why it's worse than leaving out the Waterloo-Wimbledon
(etc) National Rail routes.

I'm not sure where one should draw the line (pun *not* intended!)
between which lines to include and which to omit.

[..]

I suppose the criterion for inclusion might be whether a typical ticket
for use on the Underground would or wouldn't allow you to use a
non-Underground line that called at stations within the zones that your
ticket covers.
As a London tourist, I would have drawn the line at a service frequency
as well: There should be a minimum of 6 tph (maximum 10 minutes waiting
time) during daytime for the line to serve a meaningful purpose as a
local connection.

That would exclude some Overground and even a few Tube lines.

On 17/12/2020 10:45, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 10:28:03 on Thu, 17 Dec
2020, remarked:

Leaving out the Moorgate to FP section of GN - even if they don't include
the rest - is just cretinous and a disservice to passengers.

I'm not sure why it's worse than leaving out the Waterloo-Wimbledon
(etc) National Rail routes.

Another factor is that the GN&C south of Krapy Rubsnif has a metro-style
service where every train calls at every station. People trying to use
NR from Waterloo to Clapham Junction might end up accidentally boarding
a train that doesn't stop until Yeovil or somewhere like that.

--
Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to
Mouse On Mars - 1999 - Niun Niggung

On 17/12/2020 09:46, Marland wrote:
Basil Jet wrote:
On 16/12/2020 19:58, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 17:50:32 on Wed, 16 Dec
2020, Basil Jet remarked:
On 16/12/2020 10:41, Recliner wrote:
Geoff celebrates the belated return of Thameslink to TfL's Tube Map,
after
a long absence. And it's not just the core section, but as much as
fits in
the extended zones. So the map now features over 500 stations:
Â*https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZ5SQcdC48o

The map itself is not on the TfL site yet, but curiously is available
at
https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/202...back-on-the-la
test-tube-map/

Test tube map?


Just put out to test a reaction .

Pipe it down.

--
Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to
Mouse On Mars - 1999 - Niun Niggung