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Modern Railways
"The Battersea Branch will be the first extension to the Underground network since the Jubilee Line Extension from Green Park to Stratford" Since https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...round_stations is sortable by opening date, forgetting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heathr...inal_5_station is a major facepalm. -- Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to 1993 - The Stinking Rose - Kev Hopper |
Modern Railways
Basil Jet wrote:
"The Battersea Branch will be the first extension to the Underground network since the Jubilee Line Extension from Green Park to Stratford" Since https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...round_stations is sortable by opening date, forgetting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heathr...inal_5_station is a major facepalm. You're quite right, of course, but I suppose they don't regard the additional Heathrow station as an extension. |
Modern Railways
In message , at 10:11:15 on Fri, 19 Feb
2021, Recliner remarked: Basil Jet wrote: "The Battersea Branch will be the first extension to the Underground network since the Jubilee Line Extension from Green Park to Stratford" Since https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...round_stations is sortable by opening date, forgetting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heathr...inal_5_station is a major facepalm. You're quite right, of course, but I suppose they don't regard the additional Heathrow station as an extension. It's approx 2km, so rather more than just a new station. Topographically it's almost identical to the Battersea Branch (~3.5km) but maybe the writer thought it was like T4? -- Roland Perry |
Modern Railways
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 10:11:15 on Fri, 19 Feb 2021, Recliner remarked: Basil Jet wrote: "The Battersea Branch will be the first extension to the Underground network since the Jubilee Line Extension from Green Park to Stratford" Since https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...round_stations is sortable by opening date, forgetting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heathr...inal_5_station is a major facepalm. You're quite right, of course, but I suppose they don't regard the additional Heathrow station as an extension. It's approx 2km, so rather more than just a new station. Topographically it's almost identical to the Battersea Branch (~3.5km) but maybe the writer thought it was like T4? As I said, Basil is quite right, but I can understand how MR made the mistake. I suspect they just didn't think about it. |
Modern Railways
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 10:11:15 on Fri, 19 Feb 2021, Recliner remarked: Basil Jet wrote: "The Battersea Branch will be the first extension to the Underground network since the Jubilee Line Extension from Green Park to Stratford" Since https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...round_stations is sortable by opening date, forgetting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heathr...inal_5_station is a major facepalm. You're quite right, of course, but I suppose they don't regard the additional Heathrow station as an extension. It's approx 2km, so rather more than just a new station. Topographically it's almost identical to the Battersea Branch (~3.5km) but maybe the writer thought it was like T4? T4 involved 6.1km of new single-track tunnel. Anna Noyd-Dryver |
Modern Railways
Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 10:11:15 on Fri, 19 Feb 2021, Recliner remarked: Basil Jet wrote: "The Battersea Branch will be the first extension to the Underground network since the Jubilee Line Extension from Green Park to Stratford" Since https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...round_stations is sortable by opening date, forgetting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heathr...inal_5_station is a major facepalm. You're quite right, of course, but I suppose they don't regard the additional Heathrow station as an extension. It's approx 2km, so rather more than just a new station. Topographically it's almost identical to the Battersea Branch (~3.5km) but maybe the writer thought it was like T4? T4 involved 6.1km of new single-track tunnel. Those almost straight new tunnels are among the loudest on the whole LU network. It's almost painful. Does anyone know why? |
Modern Railways
On 21/02/2021 17:06, Recliner wrote:
Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote: Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 10:11:15 on Fri, 19 Feb 2021, Recliner remarked: Basil Jet wrote: "The Battersea Branch will be the first extension to the Underground network since the Jubilee Line Extension from Green Park to Stratford" Since https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...round_stations is sortable by opening date, forgetting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heathr...inal_5_station is a major facepalm. You're quite right, of course, but I suppose they don't regard the additional Heathrow station as an extension. It's approx 2km, so rather more than just a new station. Topographically it's almost identical to the Battersea Branch (~3.5km) but maybe the writer thought it was like T4? T4 involved 6.1km of new single-track tunnel. Those almost straight new tunnels are among the loudest on the whole LU network. It's almost painful. Does anyone know why? If you mean the T5 tunnel, I imagine they're the only part of the tube constructed with NATM. -- Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to 2001 - Out Of The Races And Onto The Tracks - The Rapture |
Modern Railways
Basil Jet wrote:
On 21/02/2021 17:06, Recliner wrote: Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote: Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 10:11:15 on Fri, 19 Feb 2021, Recliner remarked: Basil Jet wrote: "The Battersea Branch will be the first extension to the Underground network since the Jubilee Line Extension from Green Park to Stratford" Since https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...round_stations is sortable by opening date, forgetting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heathr...inal_5_station is a major facepalm. You're quite right, of course, but I suppose they don't regard the additional Heathrow station as an extension. It's approx 2km, so rather more than just a new station. Topographically it's almost identical to the Battersea Branch (~3.5km) but maybe the writer thought it was like T4? T4 involved 6.1km of new single-track tunnel. Those almost straight new tunnels are among the loudest on the whole LU network. It's almost painful. Does anyone know why? If you mean the T5 tunnel, I imagine they're the only part of the tube constructed with NATM. Parts of the central HEx station famously use NATM, but I don't think any of the Tube or HEx running tunnels used NATM. They look like normal deep bored tube concrete ring tunnels, as used on the JLE and probably the Battersea extension. Those T5 tunnels are fairly shallow and have heavy airliners parked or taxiing above, so I wonder if they use a more sturdy construction than usual tube tunnels? |
Modern Railways
On 21/02/2021 17:29, Recliner wrote:
Basil Jet wrote: On 21/02/2021 17:06, Recliner wrote: Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote: Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 10:11:15 on Fri, 19 Feb 2021, Recliner remarked: Basil Jet wrote: "The Battersea Branch will be the first extension to the Underground network since the Jubilee Line Extension from Green Park to Stratford" Since https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...round_stations is sortable by opening date, forgetting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heathr...inal_5_station is a major facepalm. You're quite right, of course, but I suppose they don't regard the additional Heathrow station as an extension. It's approx 2km, so rather more than just a new station. Topographically it's almost identical to the Battersea Branch (~3.5km) but maybe the writer thought it was like T4? T4 involved 6.1km of new single-track tunnel. Those almost straight new tunnels are among the loudest on the whole LU network. It's almost painful. Does anyone know why? If you mean the T5 tunnel, I imagine they're the only part of the tube constructed with NATM. Parts of the central HEx station famously use NATM, but I don't think any of the Tube or HEx running tunnels used NATM. They look like normal deep bored tube concrete ring tunnels, as used on the JLE and probably the Battersea extension. Those T5 tunnels are fairly shallow and have heavy airliners parked or taxiing above, so I wonder if they use a more sturdy construction than usual tube tunnels? Might be of interest? https://eave.io/wp-content/uploads/2...-full-data.pdf PA |
Modern Railways
On 21/02/2021 17:29, Recliner wrote:
Basil Jet wrote: On 21/02/2021 17:06, Recliner wrote: Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote: Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 10:11:15 on Fri, 19 Feb 2021, Recliner remarked: Basil Jet wrote: "The Battersea Branch will be the first extension to the Underground network since the Jubilee Line Extension from Green Park to Stratford" Since https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...round_stations is sortable by opening date, forgetting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heathr...inal_5_station is a major facepalm. You're quite right, of course, but I suppose they don't regard the additional Heathrow station as an extension. It's approx 2km, so rather more than just a new station. Topographically it's almost identical to the Battersea Branch (~3.5km) but maybe the writer thought it was like T4? T4 involved 6.1km of new single-track tunnel. Those almost straight new tunnels are among the loudest on the whole LU network. It's almost painful. Does anyone know why? If you mean the T5 tunnel, I imagine they're the only part of the tube constructed with NATM. Parts of the central HEx station famously use NATM, but I don't think any of the Tube or HEx running tunnels used NATM. They look like normal deep bored tube concrete ring tunnels, as used on the JLE and probably the Battersea extension. Those T5 tunnels are fairly shallow and have heavy airliners parked or taxiing above, so I wonder if they use a more sturdy construction than usual tube tunnels? Might be of interest? https://eave.io/wp-content/uploads/2...-full-data.pdf PA |
Modern Railways
Peter Able wrote:
On 21/02/2021 17:29, Recliner wrote: Basil Jet wrote: On 21/02/2021 17:06, Recliner wrote: Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote: Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 10:11:15 on Fri, 19 Feb 2021, Recliner remarked: Basil Jet wrote: "The Battersea Branch will be the first extension to the Underground network since the Jubilee Line Extension from Green Park to Stratford" Since https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...round_stations is sortable by opening date, forgetting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heathr...inal_5_station is a major facepalm. You're quite right, of course, but I suppose they don't regard the additional Heathrow station as an extension. It's approx 2km, so rather more than just a new station. Topographically it's almost identical to the Battersea Branch (~3.5km) but maybe the writer thought it was like T4? T4 involved 6.1km of new single-track tunnel. Those almost straight new tunnels are among the loudest on the whole LU network. It's almost painful. Does anyone know why? If you mean the T5 tunnel, I imagine they're the only part of the tube constructed with NATM. Parts of the central HEx station famously use NATM, but I don't think any of the Tube or HEx running tunnels used NATM. They look like normal deep bored tube concrete ring tunnels, as used on the JLE and probably the Battersea extension. Those T5 tunnels are fairly shallow and have heavy airliners parked or taxiing above, so I wonder if they use a more sturdy construction than usual tube tunnels? Might be of interest? https://eave.io/wp-content/uploads/2...-full-data.pdf Thanks, it confirms my observation (though I'm surprised a few other stretches are shown as even noisier), but I wonder what explains it? These are new, smooth, straight concrete tunnels, probably with a slightly larger diameter, so one might expect them to be smoother and quieter than century-old steel tunnels. |
Modern Railways
On Mon, 22 Feb 2021 22:57:48 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote: Peter Able wrote: On 21/02/2021 17:29, Recliner wrote: Basil Jet wrote: On 21/02/2021 17:06, Recliner wrote: Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote: Roland Perry wrote: If you mean the T5 tunnel, I imagine they're the only part of the tube constructed with NATM. Parts of the central HEx station famously use NATM, but I don't think any of the Tube or HEx running tunnels used NATM. They look like normal deep bored tube concrete ring tunnels, as used on the JLE and probably the Battersea extension. Those T5 tunnels are fairly shallow and have heavy airliners parked or taxiing above, so I wonder if they use a more sturdy construction than usual tube tunnels? Might be of interest? https://eave.io/wp-content/uploads/2...-full-data.pdf Thanks, it confirms my observation (though I'm surprised a few other stretches are shown as even noisier), but I wonder what explains it? These are new, smooth, straight concrete tunnels, probably with a slightly larger diameter, so one might expect them to be smoother and quieter than century-old steel tunnels. I'd have thought that a tunnel with smooth concrete walls was just about the noisiest possible space, the diametric opposite of an anechoic environment. ISTR that Victoria Line getting some flack in 1969 with people hoping that the first new line for 60 years would have demonstrated some progress in noise reduction. It hadn't and it seems little has changed as the Jubilee and T5 prove. I wonder how Crossrail will pan out? I find that noise map curious. It suggests that open air sections are in some cases over 80dB, noisier than some tunneled sections. That doesn't match with my experience. When entering the tunnel at Southgate or Arnos Grove, for example, the noise levels subjectively jump considerably. |
Modern Railways
Trolleybus wrote:
On Mon, 22 Feb 2021 22:57:48 -0000 (UTC), Recliner wrote: Peter Able wrote: On 21/02/2021 17:29, Recliner wrote: Basil Jet wrote: On 21/02/2021 17:06, Recliner wrote: Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote: Roland Perry wrote: If you mean the T5 tunnel, I imagine they're the only part of the tube constructed with NATM. Parts of the central HEx station famously use NATM, but I don't think any of the Tube or HEx running tunnels used NATM. They look like normal deep bored tube concrete ring tunnels, as used on the JLE and probably the Battersea extension. Those T5 tunnels are fairly shallow and have heavy airliners parked or taxiing above, so I wonder if they use a more sturdy construction than usual tube tunnels? Might be of interest? https://eave.io/wp-content/uploads/2...-full-data.pdf Thanks, it confirms my observation (though I'm surprised a few other stretches are shown as even noisier), but I wonder what explains it? These are new, smooth, straight concrete tunnels, probably with a slightly larger diameter, so one might expect them to be smoother and quieter than century-old steel tunnels. I'd have thought that a tunnel with smooth concrete walls was just about the noisiest possible space, the diametric opposite of an anechoic environment. ISTR that Victoria Line getting some flack in 1969 with people hoping that the first new line for 60 years would have demonstrated some progress in noise reduction. It hadn't and it seems little has changed as the Jubilee and T5 prove. I wonder how Crossrail will pan out? I find that noise map curious. It suggests that open air sections are in some cases over 80dB, noisier than some tunneled sections. That doesn't match with my experience. When entering the tunnel at Southgate or Arnos Grove, for example, the noise levels subjectively jump considerably. Yes, many of those reported noise levels surprise me. I do have a decibel meter, plus there's a phone app, so I might do some checking once travel resumes. |
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