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I've Been a Tourist In London!
It was my other half's birthday this weekend and I was working doing a
London walk on Sunday, so we decided to make a weekend of it playing the tourist in London and taking in a show on Saturday evening. Not something I ever really get to but it was a useful insight into really intense use of public transport over three days. Just some random observations: With the Circle/District EC-Whitechapel not operating over the weekend, loadings on the 15 to the Tower were very high. As no rail replacement bus services as such were provided, some extra runs on the 15 would have been useful. The overcrowding was severe from early morning until well into the evening. It would have been a good use of manpower to station an inspector at the Tower stop in particular to control passengers and give information. That said, the abuse being suffered by the member of staff guarding the gate at the (closed) Tower Hill station had to be seen to be believed. You would have thought he had personally and on a whim decided to close that part oft he system. Do drivers believe that they have any role in helping people who are unsure of where they're going? The driver on a 15 we caught from the Tower was asked by three foreign but English-speaking girls if he wen to Embankment Station. At first he simply ignored them but when they persisted he told them "no". I then intervened to tell them to get off at Charing Cross station, which they did, quite happily. Before anyone reminds me that the chap was there to drive a bus not act as a Tourist Information Officer, can I say that I don't expect drivers to know every street everywhere but surely major stops and stations in the Central area isn't too much to ask? Does anyone believe in queuing in an orderly fashion at bus stops any more? I don't know whether I was just unlucky this weekend (this isn't a problem I've seen before) but there was a pretty frequent problem with people trying to board via the middle doors of double deckers. We took a couple of journeys on the 9, just for old time's sake (and to go to the Science Museum). I really *do* prefer Routemasters. The conductor called out stops, it was well ventilated and I *still* find the legroom better than on new buses. (On one journey we sat next to what appeared to be an enthusiast, with notebook taking details of RMs going the other way. If you're reading this, "hello"!) Last night we used the 205 for the first time, to get from Whitechapel to Marylebone. Great idea and well used but given that it's a station linking service and therefore very likely to be used by people unfamiliar with London, on this route above all others I think that there should be a way of announcing the stops, either by the driver doing it or with a GPS TV system, as was used on the RV1 (but now seems not to be?). But these are really just observations. In two and a half days' really intensive use of the system, it managed to get us there everywhere every time. It did it late in the evening, when Paris's transport system would have been skeletal and that of most other British cities non-existent and my essential belief in London having a Good Transport System was not shaken. Interesting to be a tourist, if only for a while. It reminded me why I love London so much. -- Ian Jelf, MITG, Birmingham, UK Registered "Blue Badge" Tourist Guide for London & the Heart of England http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk |
I've Been a Tourist In London!
"Ian Jelf" wrote in message
... It was my other half's birthday this weekend and I was working doing a London walk on Sunday, so we decided to make a weekend of it playing the tourist in London and taking in a show on Saturday evening. Never mind all this transport boll**ks, what show did you see? ;-) Ian (theatre fan) |
I've Been a Tourist In London!
In message , Ian F.
writes "Ian Jelf" wrote in message ... It was my other half's birthday this weekend and I was working doing a London walk on Sunday, so we decided to make a weekend of it playing the tourist in London and taking in a show on Saturday evening. Never mind all this transport boll**ks, what show did you see? ;-) Ahem, "Chitty Chitty Bang Bang"! (No escaping transport, is there?!) -- Ian Jelf, MITG, Birmingham, UK Registered "Blue Badge" Tourist Guide for London & the Heart of England http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk |
I've Been a Tourist In London!
"Ian Jelf" wrote in message
... Ahem, "Chitty Chitty Bang Bang"! (No escaping transport, is there?!) Did you have to pay the congestion charge? ;-) Ian |
I've Been a Tourist In London!
On Mon, 16 Aug 2004 09:48:01 +0100, Ian Jelf
wrote: It was my other half's birthday this weekend and I was working doing a London walk on Sunday, so we decided to make a weekend of it playing the tourist in London and taking in a show on Saturday evening. Not something I ever really get to but it was a useful insight into really intense use of public transport over three days. Just some random observations: With the Circle/District EC-Whitechapel not operating over the weekend, loadings on the 15 to the Tower were very high. As no rail replacement bus services as such were provided, some extra runs on the 15 would have been useful. The overcrowding was severe from early morning until well into the evening. It would have been a good use of manpower to station an inspector at the Tower stop in particular to control passengers and give information. Extras on the 15 are supposed to operate between Aldgate and Aldwych during the District Line weekend closures. Having travelled on the 15 from Tower on a normal day with full Tube services in operation I can tell you it gets besieged then as well! I think one inspector would not cope. You actually need several customer service people to help if you actually want the inspector to be controlling the service. That said, the abuse being suffered by the member of staff guarding the gate at the (closed) Tower Hill station had to be seen to be believed. You would have thought he had personally and on a whim decided to close that part oft he system. Welcome to hell. Do drivers believe that they have any role in helping people who are unsure of where they're going? The driver on a 15 we caught from the Tower was asked by three foreign but English-speaking girls if he wen to Embankment Station. At first he simply ignored them but when they persisted he told them "no". I then intervened to tell them to get off at Charing Cross station, which they did, quite happily. Before anyone reminds me that the chap was there to drive a bus not act as a Tourist Information Officer, can I say that I don't expect drivers to know every street everywhere but surely major stops and stations in the Central area isn't too much to ask? No it isn't too much to ask but as in all things you get people who are not enthused. I expect that a route like the 15 is dreadful from this viewpoint because so many tourists use it. As soon as you show any semblance of being knowledgeable or helpful you will get completely surrounded by people wanting help - I'm sure you know how that feels :-) The cocooning of drivers behind assault screens doesn't help but they are a necessity given risks at other times of day. Does anyone believe in queuing in an orderly fashion at bus stops any more? No - I hate it but I'm afraid I'm as bad as everybody else because it is just a rugby scrum these days. I don't know whether I was just unlucky this weekend (this isn't a problem I've seen before) but there was a pretty frequent problem with people trying to board via the middle doors of double deckers. Confusion over how the cashless zone works as well as impatience. A recent experience on my suburban route when there was tube shut down showed that loads of people just poured on via the middle door - such was their desperation to get on the bus. The same happens during tube strikes when the buses are besieged. I would hate to be a driver when that happens. We took a couple of journeys on the 9, just for old time's sake (and to go to the Science Museum). I really *do* prefer Routemasters. The conductor called out stops, it was well ventilated and I *still* find the legroom better than on new buses. (On one journey we sat next to what appeared to be an enthusiast, with notebook taking details of RMs going the other way. If you're reading this, "hello"!) Well I am going to have a nice trip in to work on the 73 as I can get my local route to Seven Sisters. Most mornings I see the Routemasters pouring out of the garage about 1-2 mins apart but I venture off to the Tube. It won't be the same when they're bendy so I need one last nostalgia trip! Last night we used the 205 for the first time, to get from Whitechapel to Marylebone. Great idea and well used but given that it's a station linking service and therefore very likely to be used by people unfamiliar with London, on this route above all others I think that there should be a way of announcing the stops, either by the driver doing it or with a GPS TV system, as was used on the RV1 (but now seems not to be?). The Metroline vehicles used on the 205 all have good loud PA systems on them. I just think a lot of drivers are reticent to use them and there is no compulsion so to do but the point is well made for the 205 - one of the better inventions for the congestion charge services. But these are really just observations. In two and a half days' really intensive use of the system, it managed to get us there everywhere every time. It did it late in the evening, when Paris's transport system would have been skeletal and that of most other British cities non-existent and my essential belief in London having a Good Transport System was not shaken. Well exactly - we all have bad journeys at times but the system works far more times than it fails. Glad you had a good stay. -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
I've Been a Tourist In London!
On Mon, 16 Aug 2004 09:48:01 +0100, Ian Jelf
wrote: Do drivers believe that they have any role in helping people who are unsure of where they're going? It seems to vary. At least in London most stops have maps, and even timetables, to help planning. I saw a driver be quite abusive to a passenger asking where a bus in Croydon went, when the week before a driver with the same company (Connex) in the Czech Republic had been very helpful to me, despite us not even having a common language. In the past I've had bus drivers in North Yorkshire ask /me/ for directions, and I've even had one borrow a map I was carrying! Does anyone believe in queuing in an orderly fashion at bus stops any more? Not in London, AFAICT. It has gone the way of waiting for passengers to get off trams, trains, etc before boarding. I don't know whether I was just unlucky this weekend (this isn't a problem I've seen before) but there was a pretty frequent problem with people trying to board via the middle doors of double deckers. Foreigners, bendy-bus users, or fare dodgers? It did it late in the evening, when Paris's transport system would have been skeletal and that of most other British cities non-existent and my essential belief in London having a Good Transport System was not shaken. Many people don't realise just how good London's transport is - until they go elsewhere! -- Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK |
I've Been a Tourist In London!
Ian Jelf wrote to uk.transport.london on Mon, 16 Aug 2004:
Do drivers believe that they have any role in helping people who are unsure of where they're going? As always, in London, you have two sorts of bus drivers (and conductors); those who will go out of their way to be helpful - they'll see you running towards the bus and wait for you - and those who go out of their way to be unhelpful. We had an experience of the latter - I took my guests on a 159 up to Westminster Bridge, and the conductor firmly pressed the bell for the bus to start just as we reached the platform. He wouldn't even apologise when I remonstrated with him, nor look at me. I have taken the bus number and plan to report his behaviour to the PTB, as I was really angry that my guests should have been put out in this way. We then took a tourist river-boat to Greenwich and back, and then walked along the South Bank to have dinner at Gabriel's Wharf. And then walked on to London Bridge to catch a 35 home. -- Annabel - "Mrs Redboots" (trying out a new .sig to reflect the personality I use in online forums) |
I've Been a Tourist In London!
On Mon, 16 Aug 2004 09:48:01 +0100, Ian Jelf
wrote: Does anyone believe in queuing in an orderly fashion at bus stops any more? No! We have never managed to persuade the tourists to adopt this quaint custom; and they tend to be in the majority. -- Ian Jelf, MITG, Birmingham, UK Registered "Blue Badge" Tourist Guide for London & the Heart of England http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk -- Peter Lawrence |
I've Been a Tourist In London!
On Mon, 16 Aug 2004 18:41:33 +0100, Arthur Figgis
] wrote: In the past I've had bus drivers in North Yorkshire ask /me/ for directions, And the bus I was on tonight got trapped in roadworks at Norwood Junction, and the driver had to ask the passengers if they knew of any diversions he should be following instead :-) -- Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK |
I've Been a Tourist In London!
Peter Lawrence wrote:
On Mon, 16 Aug 2004 09:48:01 +0100, Ian Jelf wrote: Does anyone believe in queuing in an orderly fashion at bus stops any more? No! We have never managed to persuade the tourists to adopt this quaint custom; and they tend to be in the majority. But it's no better outside Zone 1, where tourists are certainly not in the majority. However, there are practical problems. My local bus stop in Chiswick High Road is served by 7 routes, and often two or more buses arrive together. It's just not reasonable to expect an orderly queuing system in such circumstances. -- Richard J. (to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address) |
I've Been a Tourist In London!
Arthur Figgis wrote:
And the bus I was on tonight got trapped in roadworks at Norwood Junction, and the driver had to ask the passengers if they knew of any diversions he should be following instead :-) That's amazing. The road works, and associated diversions, started on 2nd August; perhaps he had just returned from his holidays? As for the South Norwood diversions, I now live on a bus route. 3 different services pass my door, and I am regularly woken at around 0550 when the first one of the day goes by. This will last, apparently, until the end of October; perhaps I will have got used to it by then! -- John Ray, London UK. |
I've Been a Tourist In London!
Just to follow up some of Paul's points:
In message , Paul Corfield writes Extras on the 15 are supposed to operate between Aldgate and Aldwych during the District Line weekend closures. Having travelled on the 15 from Tower on a normal day with full Tube services in operation I can tell you it gets besieged then as well! I would have expected this to some extent because of it being the only major route to serve the Tower these days. However, the crush loadings continued well after closing time at the Tower and the stop one to the West of Tower Hill (Eastcheap?) seemed to attract very heavy use, too, which puzzled me a bit. I think one inspector would not cope. You actually need several customer service people to help if you actually want the inspector to be controlling the service. Then I suspect that that would be a good use of manpower. That said, the abuse being suffered by the member of staff guarding the gate at the (closed) Tower Hill station had to be seen to be believed. You would have thought he had personally and on a whim decided to close that part oft he system. Welcome to hell. You don't have to tell me! Driver Information No it isn't too much to ask but as in all things you get people who are not enthused. I expect that a route like the 15 is dreadful from this viewpoint because so many tourists use it. As soon as you show any semblance of being knowledgeable or helpful you will get completely surrounded by people wanting help - I'm sure you know how that feels :-) Indeed I do! I often take my Blue Badge off when I finish a job now just to prevent this. It's not being unhelpful, it's just that you do indeed get besieged. (A few weeks ago, I was walking across the Millennium Bridge early one evening. I'd finished a job a little earlier and was taking my coach driver over to see the Globe and some other developments on the Bankside. A (South African?) lady coming the other way spotted my Badge and asked a question about Saint Paul's Cathedral. When I told her that it was now closed she asked if she could get a bus from there to the Tower. I told her yes and that it was the 15 and - as you say! - I was suddenly surrounded by other people who seemed to come from nowhere, all asking different questions about Bankside, the Bridge and countless other things. My driver ended up rescuing me!) Well I am going to have a nice trip in to work on the 73 as I can get my local route to Seven Sisters. Most mornings I see the Routemasters pouring out of the garage about 1-2 mins apart I recently watched the film "The Nine Road" for the first time. You reminded me of the early morning scenes in that! The Metroline vehicles used on the 205 all have good loud PA systems on them. I just think a lot of drivers are reticent to use them and there is no compulsion so to do Whereas it ought to be a requirement of the job. Divers might be reticent but it's a useful service (and would in fact help drivers in the long run). but the point is well made for the 205 - one of the better inventions for the congestion charge services. It's the first time I've used it. We had to get from Tower Hill to Marylebone and I couldn't face the 15 again so walked to Aldgate! But these are really just observations. In two and a half days' really intensive use of the system, it managed to get us there everywhere every time. It did it late in the evening, when Paris's transport system would have been skeletal and that of most other British cities non-existent and my essential belief in London having a Good Transport System was not shaken. Well exactly - we all have bad journeys at times but the system works far more times than it fails. Absolutely. Glad you had a good stay. Thanks! (Although I more or less feel like a resident these days, so much time do I spend in London seeing it from a leisure perspective was both interesting and useful.) -- Ian Jelf, MITG, Birmingham, UK Registered "Blue Badge" Tourist Guide for London & the Heart of England http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk |
I've Been a Tourist In London!
In message , Arthur Figgis
] writes Foreigners, bendy-bus users, or fare dodgers? Mostly foreigners. -- Ian Jelf, MITG, Birmingham, UK Registered "Blue Badge" Tourist Guide for London & the Heart of England http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk |
I've Been a Tourist In London!
On Mon, 16 Aug 2004 18:58:19 +0100, Annabel Smyth
wrote: Ian Jelf wrote to uk.transport.london on Mon, 16 Aug 2004: Do drivers believe that they have any role in helping people who are unsure of where they're going? As always, in London, you have two sorts of bus drivers (and conductors); those who will go out of their way to be helpful - they'll see you running towards the bus and wait for you - and those who go out of their way to be unhelpful. We had an experience of the latter - I took my guests on a 159 up to Westminster Bridge, and the conductor firmly pressed the bell for the bus to start just as we reached the platform. He wouldn't even apologise when I remonstrated with him, nor look at me. I have taken the bus number and plan to report his behaviour to the PTB, as I was really angry that my guests should have been put out in this way. I had a similar experience with a bus yesterday. Some of our local routes are diverted at present. You are advised to catch the bus at a different tube station in order to avoid a long extra bus trip. The bus just completely refused to stop so I was straight onto London Buses Customer Services to complain. I resisted the temptation to complain to Arriva as well but if it happens again I shall be going a little higher up the chain than a Customer Services help desk. Completely and utterly unacceptable behaviour. -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
I've Been a Tourist In London!
"Peter Lawrence" a écrit dans le message de ... On Mon, 16 Aug 2004 09:48:01 +0100, Ian Jelf wrote: Does anyone believe in queuing in an orderly fashion at bus stops any more? No! We have never managed to persuade the tourists to adopt this quaint custom; and they tend to be in the majority. SNIP Indeed, those who aware that an official on-line rail ticket agency is called "Queue-Jump" must conclude that elbowing one's way to the front of the waiting throng is now regarded as praiseworthy evidence of the competitive spirit... Regards, - Alan (in Brussels - mind the spamtrap) |
I've Been a Tourist In London!
"Ian Jelf" wrote: (re route 15) I would have expected this to some extent because of it being the only major route to serve the Tower these days. However, the crush loadings continued well after closing time at the Tower and the stop one to the West of Tower Hill (Eastcheap?) seemed to attract very heavy use, too, which puzzled me a bit. Nearest stop for the main entrance/exit to Fenchurch Street station. With the District closed west of Whitechapel, east Londoners were being advised to get to Fenchurch Street by National Rail and then, well, fend for themselves..... Chris |
I've Been a Tourist In London!
On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 18:12:22 +0100, Paul Corfield
wrote: On Mon, 16 Aug 2004 18:58:19 +0100, Annabel Smyth wrote: Ian Jelf wrote to uk.transport.london on Mon, 16 Aug 2004: Do drivers believe that they have any role in helping people who are unsure of where they're going? As always, in London, you have two sorts of bus drivers (and conductors); those who will go out of their way to be helpful - they'll see you running towards the bus and wait for you - and those who go out of their way to be unhelpful. We had an experience of the latter - I took my guests on a 159 up to Westminster Bridge, and the conductor firmly pressed the bell for the bus to start just as we reached the platform. He wouldn't even apologise when I remonstrated with him, nor look at me. I have taken the bus number and plan to report his behaviour to the PTB, as I was really angry that my guests should have been put out in this way. I had a similar experience with a bus yesterday. Some of our local routes are diverted at present. You are advised to catch the bus at a different tube station in order to avoid a long extra bus trip. The bus just completely refused to stop so I was straight onto London Buses Customer Services to complain. I resisted the temptation to complain to Arriva as well but if it happens again I shall be going a little higher up the chain than a Customer Services help desk. Completely and utterly unacceptable behaviour. And it has happened AGAIN with another Arriva bus on a different route and the driver thought it would be a breeze to hold me hostage on his bus and not stop to let me off until two stops after the one I requested. I have complained again but now the next stop is an E Mail to Peter Hendy. -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
I've Been a Tourist In London!
Paul Corfield wrote to uk.transport.london on Wed, 18 Aug 2004:
And it has happened AGAIN with another Arriva bus on a different route and the driver thought it would be a breeze to hold me hostage on his bus and not stop to let me off until two stops after the one I requested. I have complained again but now the next stop is an E Mail to Peter Hendy. What is it with Arriva buses - sometimes you would reckon they think they exist to travel from point to point without bothering about their customers! -- Annabel - "Mrs Redboots" (trying out a new .sig to reflect the personality I use in online forums) |
I've Been a Tourist In London!
On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 19:44:37 +0100, Annabel Smyth
wrote: Paul Corfield wrote to uk.transport.london on Wed, 18 Aug 2004: And it has happened AGAIN with another Arriva bus on a different route and the driver thought it would be a breeze to hold me hostage on his bus and not stop to let me off until two stops after the one I requested. I have complained again but now the next stop is an E Mail to Peter Hendy. What is it with Arriva buses - sometimes you would reckon they think they exist to travel from point to point without bothering about their customers! This problem appears to affect "all flavours" of Arriva. Paul's had problems with Arriva London North (correct me if I'm wrong), your problems were with Arriva London South, my problems are with Arriva East Herts and Essex, where some drivers think it's great fun to miss out a stop at 11 p.m. on a 20 minute headway. (six weeks and still no sensible answer from Arriva, only that the bus doesn't serve the road I was waiting in, even though I've managed to board a bus there on a regular basis for almost 15 years)! -- Thomas Covenant Please observe reply to Address. Unsolicited mail to "From" address deleted unread. |
I've Been a Tourist In London!
In message , Chris Read
writes "Ian Jelf" wrote: (re route 15) I would have expected this to some extent because of it being the only major route to serve the Tower these days. However, the crush loadings continued well after closing time at the Tower and the stop one to the West of Tower Hill (Eastcheap?) seemed to attract very heavy use, too, which puzzled me a bit. Nearest stop for the main entrance/exit to Fenchurch Street station. With the District closed west of Whitechapel, east Londoners were being advised to get to Fenchurch Street by National Rail and then, well, fend for themselves..... Ah, thanks, Chris. That would explain it. -- Ian Jelf, MITG, Birmingham, UK Registered "Blue Badge" Tourist Guide for London & the Heart of England http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk |
I've Been a Tourist In London!
On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 22:42:19 +0100, Thomas Covenant
wrote: On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 19:44:37 +0100, Annabel Smyth wrote: Paul Corfield wrote to uk.transport.london on Wed, 18 Aug 2004: And it has happened AGAIN with another Arriva bus on a different route and the driver thought it would be a breeze to hold me hostage on his bus and not stop to let me off until two stops after the one I requested. I have complained again but now the next stop is an E Mail to Peter Hendy. What is it with Arriva buses - sometimes you would reckon they think they exist to travel from point to point without bothering about their customers! I don't really wish to talk about Arriva buses at present. This problem appears to affect "all flavours" of Arriva. Paul's had problems with Arriva London North (correct me if I'm wrong), you are correct. your problems were with Arriva London South, my problems are with Arriva East Herts and Essex, where some drivers think it's great fun to miss out a stop at 11 p.m. on a 20 minute headway. (six weeks and still no sensible answer from Arriva, only that the bus doesn't serve the road I was waiting in, even though I've managed to board a bus there on a regular basis for almost 15 years)! If their response is unsatisfactory this is going to be escalated until I get a reply I am happy with. -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
I've Been a Tourist In London!
"Ian F." wrote the following in:
"Ian Jelf" wrote in message ... Ahem, "Chitty Chitty Bang Bang"! (No escaping transport, is there?!) Did you have to pay the congestion charge? ;-) Aren't flying cars are exempt? -- message by the incredible Robin May. "The British don't like successful people" - said by British failures There are some people who are capable of saying something you agree with in such a way that it makes you want to disagree with them. |
I've Been a Tourist In London!
Robin May wrote:
"Ian F." wrote the following in: "Ian Jelf" wrote in message ... Ahem, "Chitty Chitty Bang Bang"! (No escaping transport, is there?!) Did you have to pay the congestion charge? ;-) Aren't flying cars are exempt? In which case the CAA may wish to know. |
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