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Obscure dictionary trivia
Which disaster that took place in what is now (and maybe was then,
I won't be specific) a part of the London Underground system is mentioned in the Oxford English Dictionary? -- Mark Brader, Toronto "It's the almost correct solutions that are the most dangerous..." -- Dave Eisen |
Obscure dictionary trivia
"Mark Brader" wrote in message
... Which disaster that took place in what is now (and maybe was then, I won't be specific) a part of the London Underground system is mentioned in the Oxford English Dictionary? Wild guess - the blowout on the contruction of the Thames Tunnel which nearly killed IK Brunel. -- John Rowland - Spamtrapped Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood. That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line - It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes |
Obscure dictionary trivia
"Mark Brader" wrote in message
Which disaster that took place in what is now (and maybe was then, I won't be specific) a part of the London Underground system is mentioned in the Oxford English Dictionary? Google suggests the London Underground has been mercifully spared too many disasters - not sure where "accident" finishes and "disaster" starts mind you... The crush at Bethnal Green and the wartime bombing of the other "B" stations... Moorgate, Kings Cross... Are there others? I would have expected some diastrous tunnel fires under steam traction. -- Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG |
Obscure dictionary trivia
"Troy Steadman" wrote in message
news:c2bc7cec8cdadcff53954fa8985c15c7.125090@mygat e.mailgate.org... not sure where "accident" finishes and "disaster" starts mind you... Privatisation. -- John Rowland - Spamtrapped Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood. That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line - It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes |
Obscure dictionary trivia
John Rowland wrote:
"Troy Steadman" wrote in message news:c2bc7cec8cdadcff53954fa8985c15c7.125090@mygat e.mailgate.org... not sure where "accident" finishes and "disaster" starts mind you... Privatisation. But privatisation wasn't an accident. It was quite deliberate and a total disaster (for the Treasury). |
Obscure dictionary trivia
Piccadilly Pilot wrote:
John Rowland wrote: "Troy Steadman" wrote in message news:c2bc7cec8cdadcff53954fa8985c15c7.125090@mygat e.mailgate.org... not sure where "accident" finishes and "disaster" starts mind you... Privatisation. But privatisation wasn't an accident. It was quite deliberate and a total disaster (for the Treasury). That was supposed to read somewhat humourously, I'm not sure it worked. |
Obscure dictionary trivia
On Sun, 3 Oct 2004 08:51:44 +0000 (UTC), "Troy Steadman"
wrote: "Mark Brader" wrote in message Which disaster that took place in what is now (and maybe was then, I won't be specific) a part of the London Underground system is mentioned in the Oxford English Dictionary? Google suggests the London Underground has been mercifully spared too many disasters - not sure where "accident" finishes and "disaster" starts mind you... The crush at Bethnal Green and the wartime bombing of the other "B" stations... Bamden Town? Bambeth North??? Barble Arch???? Brafalgar square????? -- Nick Cooper [Carefully remove the detonators from my e-mail address to reply!] The London Underground at War: http://www.cwgcuser.org.uk/personal/...ra/lu/tuaw.htm 625-Online - classic British television: http://www.625.org.uk 'Things to Come' - An Incomplete Classic: http://www.thingstocome.org.uk |
Obscure dictionary trivia
"Troy Steadman" wrote in message news:c2bc7cec8cdadcff53954fa8985c15c7.125090@mygat e.mailgate.org... "Mark Brader" wrote in message Which disaster that took place in what is now (and maybe was then, I won't be specific) a part of the London Underground system is mentioned in the Oxford English Dictionary? Google suggests the London Underground has been mercifully spared too many disasters - not sure where "accident" finishes and "disaster" starts mind you... The crush at Bethnal Green and the wartime bombing of the other "B" stations... Moorgate, Kings Cross... Are there others? I would have expected some diastrous tunnel fires under steam traction. The way the question is posed indicates that it is not a London Underground disaster, as the OP says he does not know whether it was part of the Underground at that time, but it is now. Besides, I don't have an OED to check. Marcus |
Obscure dictionary trivia
Mark Brader:
Which disaster that took place in what is now (and maybe was then, I won't be specific) a part of the London Underground system is mentioned in the Oxford English Dictionary? Marcus Fox: The way the question is posed indicates that it is not a London Underground disaster, as the OP says he does not know whether it was part of the Underground at that time ... I didn't say I didn't know; I said I wasn't saying. -- Mark Brader | "People tend to assume that things they don't know Toronto | about are either safe or dangerous or useless, | depending on their prejudices." -- Tim Freeman |
Obscure dictionary trivia
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Obscure dictionary trivia
Nick Cooper wrote:
On Sun, 3 Oct 2004 08:51:44 +0000 (UTC), "Troy Steadman" wrote: "Mark Brader" wrote in message Which disaster that took place in what is now (and maybe was then, I won't be specific) a part of the London Underground system is mentioned in the Oxford English Dictionary? Google suggests the London Underground has been mercifully spared too many disasters - not sure where "accident" finishes and "disaster" starts mind you... The crush at Bethnal Green and the wartime bombing of the other "B" stations... Bamden Town? Bambeth North??? Barble Arch???? Brafalgar square????? Bank and Balham, I assume, though I wouldn't have thought these warranted a mention in the OED. I don't think that any disaster of this sort has coined a new word in the language, so I assume that there is a reference to the disaster in an entry for the part of London where it happened. The disaster would therefore have to be very significant in the history of either the location or London's railways in general. Moorgate can be ruled out, as the location of the disaster is no longer in the LU system. Harrow (1952) is a possibility but here too the mainline tracks on which it occurred aren't part of the LU system. King's Cross seems the most likely, as the disaster had a huge effect thereafter on the physical and procedural aspects of the Underground system. There's no entry for King's Cross in my 1-volume New Oxford Dictionary of English, but maybe in the OED itself ...? -- Richard J. (to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address) |
Obscure dictionary trivia
Nick Cooper wrote to uk.transport.london on Sun, 3 Oct 2004:
The crush at Bethnal Green and the wartime bombing of the other "B" stations... Bamden Town? Bambeth North??? Barble Arch???? Brafalgar square????? Bank, ITYF -- "Mrs Redboots" http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/ Website updated 26 September 2004 |
Obscure dictionary trivia
"Richard J." wrote in message
. .. Nick Cooper wrote: On Sun, 3 Oct 2004 08:51:44 +0000 (UTC), "Troy Steadman" wrote: The crush at Bethnal Green and the wartime bombing of the other "B" stations... Bamden Town? Bambeth North??? Barble Arch???? Brafalgar square????? Bank and Balham, I assume And Bounds Green. Did no-one get my message about the blowout during the contruction of the Thames Tunnel which nearly killed IK Brunel? -- John Rowland - Spamtrapped Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood. That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line - It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes |
Obscure dictionary trivia
"John Rowland" wrote in message
Did no-one get my message about the blowout during the contruction of the Thames Tunnel which nearly killed IK Brunel? Nearly killing someone is a pretty feeble disaster. -- Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG |
Obscure dictionary trivia
"Richard J." wrote in message ...
Moorgate can be ruled out, as the location of the disaster is no longer in the LU system. Harrow (1952) is a possibility but here too the mainline tracks on which it occurred aren't part of the LU system. Maybe you've struck the answer without realising it. Harrow, as in "a harrowing experience". Would that be it, or is this some strange coincidence? I look forward to the right answer! PhilD -- |
Obscure dictionary trivia
"Richard J." wrote in message . .. Nick Cooper wrote: On Sun, 3 Oct 2004 08:51:44 +0000 (UTC), "Troy Steadman" wrote: "Mark Brader" wrote in message Which disaster that took place in what is now (and maybe was then, I won't be specific) a part of the London Underground system is mentioned in the Oxford English Dictionary? Google suggests the London Underground has been mercifully spared too many disasters - not sure where "accident" finishes and "disaster" starts mind you... The crush at Bethnal Green and the wartime bombing of the other "B" stations... Bamden Town? Bambeth North??? Barble Arch???? Brafalgar square????? Bank and Balham, I assume, though I wouldn't have thought these warranted a mention in the OED. I don't think that any disaster of this sort has coined a new word in the language, so I assume that there is a reference to the disaster in an entry for the part of London where it happened. The disaster would therefore have to be very significant in the history of either the location or London's railways in general. Moorgate can be ruled out, as the location of the disaster is no longer in the LU system. Harrow (1952) is a possibility but here too the mainline tracks on which it occurred aren't part of the LU system. I thought of Harrow last night, and it is pretty far out on the edge of the underground, so is unlikely to have been part of the underground as long as the central parts. However, people were using harrows well before 1952 I believe, so it is unlikely to be mentioned in the context of a disaster. Although I don't have an OED to check. Marcus |
Obscure dictionary trivia
"Troy Steadman" wrote in message
news:229e869a0de5ed313d9e4aded13accff.125090@mygat e.mailgate.org... "John Rowland" wrote in message Did no-one get my message about the blowout during the contruction of the Thames Tunnel which nearly killed IK Brunel? Nearly killing someone is a pretty feeble disaster. ISTR six non-famous people died. -- John Rowland - Spamtrapped Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood. That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line - It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes |
Obscure dictionary trivia
On Sun, 3 Oct 2004, Mark Brader wrote:
Which disaster that took place in what is now (and maybe was then, I won't be specific) a part of the London Underground system is mentioned in the Oxford English Dictionary? I'll guess Moorgate; the term 'Moorgate control' is now used in describing some sort of fail-safe signalling thingummajig, so you might expect it to be in the dictionary. When Moorgate happened, it was a LU-operated line; it's now NR. You could still argue that Moorgate station is 'part of the London Underground system', though. Also, do you know for certain that there are no other mentions of tube disasters in the OED? tom -- NOW ALL ASS-KICKING UNTIL THE END |
Obscure dictionary trivia
On Mon, 4 Oct 2004, John Rowland wrote:
Did no-one get my message about the blowout during the contruction of the Thames Tunnel which nearly killed IK Brunel? Liked his food, did Brunel. tom -- NOW ALL ASS-KICKING UNTIL THE END |
Obscure dictionary trivia
"John Rowland" wrote in message
"Troy Steadman" wrote in message news:229e869a0de5ed313d9e4aded13accff.125090@mygat e.mailgate.org... "John Rowland" wrote in message Nearly killing someone is a pretty feeble disaster. ISTR six non-famous people died. I still think a proper disaster would have got him. -- Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG |
Obscure dictionary trivia
Mark Brader:
Which disaster that took place in what is now (and maybe was then, I won't be specific) a part of the London Underground system is mentioned in the Oxford English Dictionary? Phil Deaves: I look forward to the right answer! It's Bethnal Green. Since that happened after the OED's first edition was published, you won't find it in there. I have the Supplement that was completed in 1986, and whose content has been incorporated into the second edition OED and the newer online version (third edition in progress). This includes, at the end of "tube", a subsidiary entry for "tube shelter". And the second illustrative quotation, from a contemporary entry in a diary published years later*, reads "There was a terrible accident at a tube shelter last night after the sirens had sounded in London." The date is given, so it's clear what's meant. * "Mrs. Milburn's Diaries: An Englishwoman's day-to-day reflections, 1939-45", published in 1979. -- Mark Brader | "... there is no such word as 'impossible' in Toronto | my dictionary. In fact, everything between | 'herring' and 'marmalade' appears to be missing." | -- Dirk Gently (Douglas Adams) My text in this article is in the public domain. |
Obscure dictionary trivia
Tom Anderson writes:
Also, do you know for certain that there are no other mentions of tube disasters in the OED? No, I don't. -- Mark Brader, Toronto | "True excitement lies in doing | 'sdb /unix /dev/kmem'" -- Pontus Hedman |
Obscure dictionary trivia
In message , Marcus Fox
writes I thought of Harrow last night, and it is pretty far out on the edge of the underground, so is unlikely to have been part of the underground as long as the central parts. However, people were using harrows well before 1952 I believe, so it is unlikely to be mentioned in the context of a disaster. Well, the "harrowing of hell" was mentioned by Aelfric, c. 1000AD (although the concept was said to be much older), and that's quite a long time before the railway got to Harrow :) -- Paul Terry |
Obscure dictionary trivia
In message , Mark Brader
writes It's Bethnal Green. Since that happened after the OED's first edition was published, you won't find it in there. I have the Supplement that was completed in 1986, and whose content has been incorporated into the second edition OED and the newer online version (third edition in progress). This includes, at the end of "tube", a subsidiary entry for "tube shelter". And the second illustrative quotation, from a contemporary entry in a diary published years later*, reads "There was a terrible accident at a tube shelter last night after the sirens had sounded in London." The date is given, so it's clear what's meant. * "Mrs. Milburn's Diaries: An Englishwoman's day-to-day reflections, 1939-45", published in 1979. What is the OED's first illustrative reference to "tube shelter"? The expression was in use long before the Bethnal Green disaster. -- Paul Terry |
Obscure dictionary trivia
Mark Brader:
It's Bethnal Green. Since that happened after the OED's first edition was published, you won't find it in there. I have the Supplement that was completed in 1986, and whose content has been incorporated into the second edition OED and the newer online version (third edition in progress). This includes, at the end of "tube", a subsidiary entry for "tube shelter". .. Paul Terry: What is the OED's first illustrative reference to "tube shelter"? In the Supplement, it's from "Darkness Falls from the Air", a 1942 novel by Nigel Balchin. "We went... by tube... I wanted to see how the tube shelter business was working out." The expression was in use long before the Bethnal Green disaster. I don't know if the above has been "antedated", as they say, in the OED2 or the online edition. -- Mark Brader, Toronto "The walls have hearsay." -- Fonseca & Carolino My text in this article is in the public domain. |
Obscure dictionary trivia
In message , Mark Brader
writes Paul Terry: What is the OED's first illustrative reference to "tube shelter"? In the Supplement, it's from "Darkness Falls from the Air", a 1942 novel by Nigel Balchin. "We went... by tube... I wanted to see how the tube shelter business was working out." The expression was in use long before the Bethnal Green disaster. I don't know if the above has been "antedated", as they say, in the OED2 or the online edition. Well, Henry Moore's famous "Grey tube shelter" dates from 1940 - I *think* the title is contemporary, but am not su http://www.nga.gov/exhibitions/2001/moore/fig04.htm -- Paul Terry |
Obscure dictionary trivia
In article , Marcus Fox
writes I thought of Harrow last night, and it is pretty far out on the edge of the underground, so is unlikely to have been part of the underground as long as the central parts. 1837-07-20: Harrow & Wealdstone opened 1863-01-01: first Underground line 1880-08-02: Harrow-on-the-Hill opened (Underground services) 1890-12-18: first tube line part of LU [1] 1917-04-16: Harrow & Wealdstone first tube trains [1] The Tower Subway was earlier but was never part of what we call the Underground. -- Clive D.W. Feather | Home: Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work: Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is: |
Obscure dictionary trivia
In article ,
Tom Anderson writes I'll guess Moorgate; the term 'Moorgate control' is now used in describing some sort of fail-safe signalling thingummajig, Timed train-stops to ensure a train speed is reduced. so you might expect it to be in the dictionary. No, it's railway jargon. I wouldn't expect "Welwyn Control", or the railway use of "in advance", to be there either. -- Clive D.W. Feather | Home: Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work: Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is: |
Obscure dictionary trivia
Annabel Smyth wrote in message ...
Nick Cooper wrote to uk.transport.london on Sun, 3 Oct 2004: The crush at Bethnal Green and the wartime bombing of the other "B" stations... Bamden Town? Bambeth North??? Barble Arch???? Brafalgar square????? Bank, ITYF Yes, I know, plus Balham & Bounds Green - I've only been maintaining a web-page on the subject for the last 2½ years.... The point is that although the "Bs" are quite well known, plenty of other stations got bombed, many with loss of live. In fact, I've just had my attention drawn to a bombing fatality at Kings Cross that hasn't previously been documented in "the usual sources." |
Obscure dictionary trivia
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Obscure dictionary trivia
Nick Cooper writes:
In that case, technically it was part of the LU infrastructure - and is now - but it wasn't part of the operating network at the time. I take it that was why you were being vague on that point?! That's what made me *think* of being vague, but the reason I decided to *be* vague was that I thought it made it a better puzzle that way. If I'd thought about the case of Moorgate, I would have adjusted the wording to include places that were formerly part of the Underground, or something like that. -- Mark Brader, Toronto "It's the almost correct solutions that are the most dangerous..." -- Dave Eisen |
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