Northern Line Indicator Boards
 

Several times in the last week (about 0810), the indicator boards at
Totteridge and Whetstone have shown :

1) Morden via Bank
2) Kennington via Charing Cross
3) Morden via Bank


The CX train then changes to "not in service", when this train arrives it
has "not in service" displayed on the front, but already has passengers on
boards, and lets on at T&W. It then changes to a labelled CX train at West
Finchley, and carries through to Kennington.

Has happened 3 times in the last 10 days or so at about the same time. Any
ideas why ?

Could it be to try to stop people boarding at T&W and WP, and let WF's
passengers get a seat ?

Northern Line Indicator Boards
 

"Zac" typed


Several times in the last week (about 0810), the indicator boards at
Totteridge and Whetstone have shown :

1) Morden via Bank
2) Kennington via Charing Cross
3) Morden via Bank


The CX train then changes to "not in service", when this train arrives it
has "not in service" displayed on the front, but already has passengers on
boards, and lets on at T&W. It then changes to a labelled CX train at West
Finchley, and carries through to Kennington.

Has happened 3 times in the last 10 days or so at about the same time. Any
ideas why ?

Could it be to try to stop people boarding at T&W and WP, and let WF's
passengers get a seat ?


My nearest station is Burnt Oak, which is the first stop after Edgware
on the other northern fringe of the Northern Line.

My rule of thumb is "If three trains are indicated and the first is more
than 3 minutes away, CORRECTION will flash up before a train arrives."
It is seldom wrong.

Edgware is less than 3 minutes away, which might have something to do with it.

The indicators are much mor reliable at Hampstead, which is the last
place I'd normally get a seat off-peak.

It's usually best for me to take the first train and change at Hampstead
or (horrors) Camden Town. Maybe you should do the same and change at
Highgate.

I suspect it's cock-up rather than conspiracy...

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.

Northern Line Indicator Boards
 

Zac wrote:
Several times in the last week (about 0810), the indicator boards at
Totteridge and Whetstone have shown :

1) Morden via Bank
2) Kennington via Charing Cross
3) Morden via Bank


The CX train then changes to "not in service", when this train
arrives it has "not in service" displayed on the front, but already
has passengers on boards, and lets on at T&W. It then changes to a
labelled CX train at West Finchley, and carries through to Kennington.

Has happened 3 times in the last 10 days or so at about the same
time. Any ideas why ?

Could it be to try to stop people boarding at T&W and WP, and let WF's
passengers get a seat ?

Why do you assume it's deliberate? Does it not occur to you it might simply
be a fault that the technicians haven't been able to fix yet?

Northern Line Indicator Boards
 

Several times in the last week (about 0810), the indicator boards at
Totteridge and Whetstone have shown :

1) Morden via Bank
2) Kennington via Charing Cross
3) Morden via Bank

The CX train then changes to "not in service", when this train
arrives it has "not in service" displayed on the front, but already
has passengers on boards, and lets on at T&W. It then changes to a
labelled CX train at West Finchley...

Why do you assume it's deliberate? Does it not occur to you it might simply
be a fault that the technicians haven't been able to fix yet?

Do the train describers on the platforms and the destination sign on the
train receive information from the same source, then? I would have thought
they'd be independent, but I guess if the train signs are electronic, that
no longer needs to be the case.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto "It is almost always wrong to strive for
gilt by association." --Martin Ambuhl

Northern Line Indicator Boards
 

Mark Brader wrote:
Several times in the last week (about 0810), the indicator boards at
Totteridge and Whetstone have shown :

1) Morden via Bank
2) Kennington via Charing Cross
3) Morden via Bank

The CX train then changes to "not in service", when this train
arrives it has "not in service" displayed on the front, but already
has passengers on boards, and lets on at T&W. It then changes to a
labelled CX train at West Finchley...

Why do you assume it's deliberate? Does it not occur to you it might
simply be a fault that the technicians haven't been able to fix yet?

Do the train describers on the platforms and the destination sign on
the train receive information from the same source, then? I would
have thought they'd be independent, but I guess if the train signs
are electronic, that no longer needs to be the case.

No. On board destination indicators, including the in-carriage displays, and
the voice announcements, are set by the driver. These are completely
separate from platform indications. I have normally found the driver's
knowledge to be more accurate than that displayed on platforms.
I cannot understand why a passenger train would display "Not in Service" and
then revert to a normal destination.

Lawrence Myers





--
Lawrence Myers

Northern Line Indicator Boards
 

In article , (Mark Brader)
wrote:

Several times in the last week (about 0810), the indicator boards at
Totteridge and Whetstone have shown :

1) Morden via Bank
2) Kennington via Charing Cross
3) Morden via Bank

The CX train then changes to "not in service", when this train
arrives it has "not in service" displayed on the front, but already
has passengers on boards, and lets on at T&W. It then changes to a
labelled CX train at West Finchley...

Why do you assume it's deliberate? Does it not occur to you it might
simply be a fault that the technicians haven't been able to fix yet?

Do the train describers on the platforms and the destination sign on the
train receive information from the same source, then? I would have
thought
they'd be independent, but I guess if the train signs are electronic,
that
no longer needs to be the case.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto "It is almost always wrong to strive for
gilt by association." --Martin Ambuhl

see:

http://www.romilepa.pwp.blueyonder.c...tbk/index.html

for info on the Northern Line Positive Train Identification system
(also Track Circuit Interrupters and Position Detectors)

Roger
(my reader sometimes loses mail/newsgroup messages
- if you think you should have had a reply/comment,
please e-mail me again. Ta!)

Northern Line Indicator Boards
 

In article ,
(Zac) wrote:

Several times in the last week (about 0810), the indicator boards at
Totteridge and Whetstone have shown :

1) Morden via Bank
2) Kennington via Charing Cross
3) Morden via Bank


The CX train then changes to "not in service", when this train arrives
it
has "not in service" displayed on the front, but already has passengers
on
boards, and lets on at T&W. It then changes to a labelled CX train at
West
Finchley, and carries through to Kennington.

Has happened 3 times in the last 10 days or so at about the same time.
Any
ideas why ?

Could it be to try to stop people boarding at T&W and WP, and let WF's
passengers get a seat ?



If the train's got "Not In Service" on the front of the train, then
that's something that the driver sets up via a switch in the cab. It may
be that that end of the train had been out of service on a previous trip
and hadn't been put back. When Out of Service is selected, this
information is then sent to the Northern Line computer, with the train's
set up destination and Not In Service should then be displayed on the
platform dot matrix.

The PTI system has been up the wall over the weekend (I was off yesterday
and today, so I don't know if the problem has been sorted out). I was a
Morden v CX train that was being described as High Barnet at all the SB
stations and on a previous trip I was described as Morden instead of
Mill Hill on all the NB describers. Even if the driver sets up the wrong
code (i.e. a NB destination on a SB trip), this should be picked up by the
computer as an invalid code and the "Check destination on front of train"
message should be displayed.

There is also faulty PTI equipment on a lot of the trains and has
been for over a year which means the information is not transmitted and
this can also give rise to wrong descriptions including "missing" the
train where the train arrives even though the next train is still shown as
X mins away.

Roger
(my reader sometimes loses mail/newsgroup messages
- if you think you should have had a reply/comment,
please e-mail me again. Ta!)

Northern Line Indicator Boards
 

In article ,
writes
If the train's got "Not In Service" on the front of the train, then
that's something that the driver sets up via a switch in the cab. It may
be that that end of the train had been out of service on a previous trip
and hadn't been put back.

Could it then be that the driver's taking a station or two to notice the
"Not in service" on the station signs as he comes in? As soon as he
does, he fixes the display in the train (and the PTI then updates the
indicators).

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

Northern Line Indicator Boards
 

"Brimstone" wrote in message ...
Zac wrote:
Several times in the last week (about 0810), the indicator boards at
Totteridge and Whetstone have shown :

1) Morden via Bank
2) Kennington via Charing Cross
3) Morden via Bank


The CX train then changes to "not in service", when this train
arrives it has "not in service" displayed on the front, but already
has passengers on boards, and lets on at T&W. It then changes to a
labelled CX train at West Finchley, and carries through to Kennington.

Has happened 3 times in the last 10 days or so at about the same
time. Any ideas why ?

Could it be to try to stop people boarding at T&W and WP, and let WF's
passengers get a seat ?

Why do you assume it's deliberate? Does it not occur to you it might simply
be a fault that the technicians haven't been able to fix yet?

Brent Cross has been showing incorrect information for a few weeks now aswell.

Kevin

Northern Line Indicator Boards
 

www.runnersneed.co.uk
"Brimstone" wrote in message
...
Zac wrote:
Several times in the last week (about 0810), the indicator boards at
Totteridge and Whetstone have shown :

1) Morden via Bank
2) Kennington via Charing Cross
3) Morden via Bank


The CX train then changes to "not in service", when this train
arrives it has "not in service" displayed on the front, but already
has passengers on boards, and lets on at T&W. It then changes to a
labelled CX train at West Finchley, and carries through to Kennington.

Has happened 3 times in the last 10 days or so at about the same
time. Any ideas why ?

Could it be to try to stop people boarding at T&W and WP, and let WF's
passengers get a seat ?

Why do you assume it's deliberate? Does it not occur to you it might
simply
be a fault that the technicians haven't been able to fix yet?

Mr Brimstone

Ok, I'm very sorry, may be it is a fault which the technicians have not been
able to fix.
I was only offering an idea up for discussuion/thoughts for the newsgroup.

It did actually occur that it may be a fault, but am I not able to offer any
sort of ideas myself ?

Northern Line Indicator Boards
 

Zac wrote:
www.runnersneed.co.uk
"Brimstone" wrote in message
...
Zac wrote:
Several times in the last week (about 0810), the indicator boards at
Totteridge and Whetstone have shown :

1) Morden via Bank
2) Kennington via Charing Cross
3) Morden via Bank


The CX train then changes to "not in service", when this train
arrives it has "not in service" displayed on the front, but already
has passengers on boards, and lets on at T&W. It then changes to a
labelled CX train at West Finchley, and carries through to
Kennington.

Has happened 3 times in the last 10 days or so at about the same
time. Any ideas why ?

Could it be to try to stop people boarding at T&W and WP, and let
WF's passengers get a seat ?

Why do you assume it's deliberate? Does it not occur to you it might
simply be a fault that the technicians haven't been able to fix yet?

Mr Brimstone

Ok, I'm very sorry, may be it is a fault which the technicians have
not been able to fix.
I was only offering an idea up for discussuion/thoughts for the
newsgroup.

It did actually occur that it may be a fault, but am I not able to
offer any sort of ideas myself ?

The tone of your posting suggested that this was a deliberate feature, hence
my question. I was merely seeking clarification, is that not allowed?

Northern Line Indicator Boards
 

Northern Line Indicator Boards
 

In article ,
(Clive D. W. Feather) wrote:

In article ,
writes
If the train's got "Not In Service" on the front of the train, then
that's something that the driver sets up via a switch in the cab. It
may
be that that end of the train had been out of service on a previous
trip
and hadn't been put back.

Could it then be that the driver's taking a station or two to notice
the "Not in service" on the station signs as he comes in? As soon as he
does, he fixes the display in the train (and the PTI then updates the
indicators).

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

It could be. The new PTI information (i.e. the switch returned to normal)
would be picked up at the next interrogator - normally either just before
or just after the next controlled area.

The other thing is that it could just be a fault with the PTI equipment
itself that is causing the problem. I've had a few of these intermittent
not in service displays for no apparent reason.

Once a destination is picked up and transmitted (e.g. as the train leaves
Tooting Broadway NB), the same destination should always be shown at all
the stations until the next PTI interrogator (in this case, Oval as any
changes are picked up after the train leaves Stockwell). Where the
destination (or lack of it) varies from station to station within a
section, then this is definitely a PTI related fault.

Roger

Northern Line Indicator Boards
 

Helen Deborah Vecht wrote in message ...
My nearest station is Burnt Oak, which is the first stop after
Edgware
on the other northern fringe of the Northern Line.

My rule of thumb is "If three trains are indicated and the first is more
than 3 minutes away, CORRECTION will flash up before a train arrives."
It is seldom wrong.

Edgware is less than 3 minutes away, which might have something to do with it.

Indeed -- I remember the same at Colindale when I worked there (except
there it's more likely to be 5-6 minutes, so it happens less
frequently).

What's strange is that IIRC the indicators at Edgware itself were
generally reasonably accurate. For some reason the downline indicators
weren't following the Edgware ones.

Northern Line Indicator Boards
 

In article ,
(Alistair Bell) wrote:

Helen Deborah Vecht wrote in message
...
My nearest station is Burnt Oak, which is the first stop after
Edgware
on the other northern fringe of the Northern Line.

My rule of thumb is "If three trains are indicated and the first is
more
than 3 minutes away, CORRECTION will flash up before a train arrives."
It is seldom wrong.

Edgware is less than 3 minutes away, which might have something to do
with it.

Indeed -- I remember the same at Colindale when I worked there (except
there it's more likely to be 5-6 minutes, so it happens less
frequently).

What's strange is that IIRC the indicators at Edgware itself were
generally reasonably accurate. For some reason the downline indicators
weren't following the Edgware ones.

The Signalmen will often set up the description at the termini, the rest
is done by the train. Having said that, the describers at Edgware often
show the wrong description through no fault of the Signalman or driver!

Roger

Northern Line Indicator Boards
 

Helen Deborah Vecht wrote in message ...
(Kevin)typed

Brent Cross has been showing incorrect information for a few weeks now
aswell.

A FEW WEEKS? Anything north of Hampstead has shown duff information for
as long as I can remember!

Well, at least since 1988.

Indeed. When I used to live near and commute on the northern line back in
the mid 90s the only thing you could rely on with the indicators is that
you couldn't rely on them! The only use they had was to inform us that yes
there was a train coming at some point if we waited! :)

B2003