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Electronic bus destination blinds
The other day, I was in a car being driven northbound past Euston
station, and happened to catch sight of a bus whose destination blind read "Short journey; ask driver!" We pondered this for awhile and assumed it would mean that the bus in question was stopping somewhere its destination blind didn't say, which is fair enough. But this sparked a discussion as to why modern buses don't have electronic destination blinds. I know the system was tried - I used to see the odd 35 with them - but presumably it was too prone to failure? On the other hand, if they can have electronic destination blinds on trains (which they not only can, but do), why don't they have them on buses? Inside the bus, too, would be helpful - how often have I had to ask the driver what number bus I've actually boarded...... -- "Mrs Redboots" http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/ Website updated 6 November 2004 with new photos |
Electronic bus destination blinds
"Mrs Redboots" wrote in message ... The other day, I was in a car being driven northbound past Euston station, and happened to catch sight of a bus whose destination blind read "Short journey; ask driver!" We pondered this for awhile and assumed it would mean that the bus in question was stopping somewhere its destination blind didn't say, which is fair enough. But this sparked a discussion as to why modern buses don't have electronic destination blinds. I know the system was tried - I used to see the odd 35 with them - but presumably it was too prone to failure? On the other hand, if they can have electronic destination blinds on trains (which they not only can, but do), why don't they have them on buses? Inside the bus, too, would be helpful - how often have I had to ask the driver what number bus I've actually boarded...... -- "Mrs Redboots" http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/ Website updated 6 November 2004 with new photos Guess what the rest of the country appear to be able to cope with electronic destination displays, as always TfL just seem to want to be different! The original electronic displays were prone to fading with time but the modern ones appear very bright and have scrolling facilities to how via points etc. Paul |
Electronic bus destination blinds
"Mrs Redboots" wrote in message
... The other day, I was in a car being driven northbound past Euston station, and happened to catch sight of a bus whose destination blind read "Short journey; ask driver!" We pondered this for awhile and assumed it would mean that the bus in question was stopping somewhere its destination blind didn't say, which is fair enough. But this sparked a discussion as to why modern buses don't have electronic destination blinds. I know the system was tried - I used to see the odd 35 with them - but presumably it was too prone to failure? On the other hand, if they can have electronic destination blinds on trains (which they not only can, but do), why don't they have them on buses? Inside the bus, too, would be helpful - how often have I had to ask the driver what number bus I've actually boarded...... I think electronic destination displays on buses are fairly common. Around here (Oxfordshire) the Oxford Park-and-Ride buses and the buses from Didcot, Abingdon etc use them. They are mainly matrix displays (a matrix of LEDs) rather then the LCD type that you tend to find on the front of trains and also inside the carriages (eg over the inter-carriage doors). |
Electronic bus destination blinds
On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 13:14:40 +0000, Mrs Redboots
wrote: why don't they have them on buses? Inside the bus, too, would be helpful - how often have I had to ask the driver what number bus I've actually boarded...... Agreed! I've also come across buses where the numbers on the front, back, and side blinds didn't agree, and the driver didn't think it was a particular problem! At least with electronic blinds they'd all be wrong... As for inside displays, since GPS/AVL is to be fitted to buses, it'd be relatively easy to add a bunch of features inside: For passengers, a display with: - Bus number & destination. - Clock with exact time - Next stop display/voice announcement. - Messages from TfL / bus company - Messages from advertisers, or other entertainment For the driver: - Clock with exact time - Speed up/Slow down directives to stick to the schedule or to maintain separation with other buses on same route. - Messages from dispatcher - A repeater for the number displayed on the outside :-) |
Electronic bus destination blinds
Marc Brett wrote to uk.transport.london on Wed, 10 Nov 2004:
As for inside displays, since GPS/AVL is to be fitted to buses, it'd be relatively easy to add a bunch of features inside: For passengers, a display with: - Bus number & destination. - Clock with exact time - Next stop display/voice announcement. - Messages from TfL / bus company - Messages from advertisers, or other entertainment I have seen buses with accurate clocks in them, and ones with advertising screens on the upper deck (usually used to show what the CCTV is seeing, but occasionally used for advertisers). As for messages, the only ones the buses seem capable of saying is "Bus stopping at next bus stop; please stand well clear of doors", as though we were all pillocks! -- "Mrs Redboots" http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/ Website updated 6 November 2004 with new photos |
Electronic bus destination blinds
"Mrs Redboots" wrote in message ... The other day, I was in a car being driven northbound past Euston station, and happened to catch sight of a bus whose destination blind read "Short journey; ask driver!" We pondered this for awhile and assumed it would mean that the bus in question was stopping somewhere its destination blind didn't say, which is fair enough. But this sparked a discussion as to why modern buses don't have electronic destination blinds. I know the system was tried - I used to see the odd 35 with them - but presumably it was too prone to failure? On the other hand, if they can have electronic destination blinds on trains (which they not only can, but do), why don't they have them on buses? Inside the bus, too, would be helpful - how often have I had to ask the driver what number bus I've actually boarded...... -- "Mrs Redboots" http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/ Website updated 6 November 2004 with new photos A number of the more modern buses in West Yorkshire have them. Mostly those operated by First Bus I think. Andrew |
Electronic bus destination blinds
In message , Paul & Meloney Dredge
writes Guess what the rest of the country appear to be able to cope with electronic destination displays, as always TfL just seem to want to be different! The original electronic displays were prone to fading with time but the modern ones appear very bright and have scrolling facilities to how via points etc. Please have a word with "Stagecoach" who still (in my area) have displays which are garbage. -- Clive. |
Electronic bus destination blinds
Mrs Redboots wrote:
The other day, I was in a car being driven northbound past Euston station, and happened to catch sight of a bus whose destination blind read "Short journey; ask driver!" We pondered this for awhile and assumed it would mean that the bus in question was stopping somewhere its destination blind didn't say, which is fair enough. But this sparked a discussion as to why modern buses don't have electronic destination blinds. I know the system was tried - I used to see the odd 35 with them - but presumably it was too prone to failure? On the other hand, if they can have electronic destination blinds on trains (which they not only can, but do), why don't they have them on buses? I have yet to see an electronic destination indicator on the front of a bus or train with the same legibility as London bus blinds (Johnston Bus or Underground typeface, yellow on black). -- Richard J. (to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address) |
Electronic bus destination blinds
On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 15:50:14 GMT, "Richard J."
wrote: Mrs Redboots wrote: The other day, I was in a car being driven northbound past Euston station, and happened to catch sight of a bus whose destination blind read "Short journey; ask driver!" We pondered this for awhile and assumed it would mean that the bus in question was stopping somewhere its destination blind didn't say, which is fair enough. But this sparked a discussion as to why modern buses don't have electronic destination blinds. I know the system was tried - I used to see the odd 35 with them - but presumably it was too prone to failure? On the other hand, if they can have electronic destination blinds on trains (which they not only can, but do), why don't they have them on buses? I have yet to see an electronic destination indicator on the front of a bus or train with the same legibility as London bus blinds (Johnston Bus or Underground typeface, yellow on black). Go to the bottom of page: http://www.trolleybus.net/tramlink.htm and have fun "turning" the blind. A further example is on the bottom of page: http://www.trolleybus.net/654.htm In both cases wait until the whole page has been loaded. David Bradley |
Electronic bus destination blinds
I recall there were a couple of T's (Titan's) as you mention trialed on the
35 and 45?? Some of the former London Buses sent off to sister companies such as Stagecoach etc converted their London style blinds to the electronic style ones. Examples: DMS/NV's from London General/Central going to Go Ahead North East Various Stagecoach vehicles including the earlier discarded TA's (Tridents) going to Stagecoach Hull, Cambridge. Southcoast and Manchester, Devon kept the London style blinds; VA's from London United/VN's going to First Leeds (though Potteries have not gone electronic) As mentioned Oxford, some First buses in Edinburgh/Glasgow have the electronic displays "Mrs Redboots" wrote in message ... The other day, I was in a car being driven northbound past Euston station, and happened to catch sight of a bus whose destination blind read "Short journey; ask driver!" We pondered this for awhile and assumed it would mean that the bus in question was stopping somewhere its destination blind didn't say, which is fair enough. But this sparked a discussion as to why modern buses don't have electronic destination blinds. I know the system was tried - I used to see the odd 35 with them - but presumably it was too prone to failure? On the other hand, if they can have electronic destination blinds on trains (which they not only can, but do), why don't they have them on buses? Inside the bus, too, would be helpful - how often have I had to ask the driver what number bus I've actually boarded...... -- "Mrs Redboots" http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/ Website updated 6 November 2004 with new photos |
Electronic bus destination blinds
David Bradley wrote to uk.transport.london on Wed, 10 Nov 2004:
Go to the bottom of page: http://www.trolleybus.net/tramlink.htm and have fun "turning" the blind. At least yours doesn't have "Short journey; ask driver!" on it. What surprised us was that it was a printed destination, not scrawled! -- "Mrs Redboots" http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/ Website updated 6 November 2004 with new photos |
Electronic bus destination blinds
Tim Scott wrote to uk.transport.london on Wed, 10 Nov 2004:
I recall there were a couple of T's (Titan's) as you mention trialed on the 35 and 45?? Yes, I think that's what they were - it was so long ago I can't remember. But why did they decide not to keep electronic signs in London, when they seem to be successful in the rest of the country? -- "Mrs Redboots" http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/ Website updated 6 November 2004 with new photos |
Electronic bus destination blinds
On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 13:14:40 +0000, Mrs Redboots
wrote: We pondered this for awhile and assumed it would mean that the bus in question was stopping somewhere its destination blind didn't say, which is fair enough. But this sparked a discussion as to why modern buses don't have electronic destination blinds. I know the system was tried - I used to see the odd 35 with them - but presumably it was too prone to failure? [...] I believe that TfL still specify the old-style displays. I think that they are still more readable, anyway, until a higher resolution can be achieved on the electronic ones. Elsewhere in the country where there's no one to care about such things apart from the operators themselves, standards are really variable with many unreadable dot matrix displays. New LED displays are very readable and presumably very reliable. Perhaps we'll see a change in policy, at least for side and rear displays. Unless I've just made it up, the buses on the 35 were used as spares to replace any broken night buses, so had to have more destinations than would fit on a blind. I can't find any evidence for that at the moment... Richard. |
Electronic bus destination blinds
Richard J. wrote:
I have yet to see an electronic destination indicator on the front of a bus or train with the same legibility as London bus blinds (Johnston Bus or Underground typeface, yellow on black). I personally find the very new high-intensity amber LED displays to be far more readable from a distance - but only those, not any other kind of electronic display, and certainly not any of the front-illuminated kind of mechanical dot matrix displays which are awful. Neil -- Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK To reply use neil at the above domain. |
Electronic bus destination blinds
In the message ...
"Mrs Redboots" wrote: Marc Brett wrote to uk.transport.london on Wed, 10 Nov 2004: As for inside displays, since GPS/AVL is to be fitted to buses, it'd be relatively easy to add a bunch of features inside: For passengers, a display with: - Bus number & destination. - Clock with exact time - Next stop display/voice announcement. - Messages from TfL / bus company - Messages from advertisers, or other entertainment I have seen buses with accurate clocks in them, and ones with advertising screens on the upper deck (usually used to show what the CCTV is seeing, but occasionally used for advertisers). As for messages, the only ones the buses seem capable of saying is "Bus stopping at next bus stop; please stand well clear of doors", as though we were all pillocks! Indeed, I recently travelled on (London) route 390 in a bus with such a screen in the centre of the upper-deck windscreen, and was similarly disappointed to see that none of the above-mentioned information (apart from generic TfL messages and advertising) was displayed. But AFAIK this is par for the course in today's narrowly commercially-oriented world; even the idea that the advertising would be more effective if it alternated with information of real value to passengers (the more specific the better, eg real-time details of alterations to the services...) has obviously not crossed the minds of those concerned. BTW here in Brussels, buses with electronic destination blinds automatically display the number of minutes before the scheduled departure (bilingually, of course) while waiting at termini. Regards, - Alan (in Brussels) |
Electronic bus destination blinds
"Alan (in Brussels)" wrote in message ... In the message ... Indeed, I recently travelled on (London) route 390 in a bus with such a screen in the centre of the upper-deck windscreen, and was similarly disappointed to see that none of the above-mentioned information (apart from generic TfL messages and advertising) was displayed. But AFAIK this is par for the course in today's narrowly commercially-oriented world; even the idea that the advertising would be more effective if it alternated with information of real value to passengers (the more specific the better, eg real-time details of alterations to the services...) has obviously not crossed the minds of those concerned. To do so would require a realtime link to pick up this information whereas the present system can be updated at depots. I'm sure your idea has crossed the minds of those concerned but perhaps their investigations showed that the present control-to-bus link was not up to the job and upgrading it just for this not cost effective. Dave |
Electronic bus destination blinds
On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 11:03:24 -0000, "Dave Liney"
wrote: "Alan (in Brussels)" wrote in message ... In the message ... Indeed, I recently travelled on (London) route 390 in a bus with such a screen in the centre of the upper-deck windscreen, and was similarly disappointed to see that none of the above-mentioned information (apart from generic TfL messages and advertising) was displayed. But AFAIK this is par for the course in today's narrowly commercially-oriented world; even the idea that the advertising would be more effective if it alternated with information of real value to passengers (the more specific the better, eg real-time details of alterations to the services...) has obviously not crossed the minds of those concerned. To do so would require a realtime link to pick up this information whereas the present system can be updated at depots. I'm sure your idea has crossed the minds of those concerned but perhaps their investigations showed that the present control-to-bus link was not up to the job and upgrading it just for this not cost effective. Dave I friend of mine writes on this subject: ------------------------------------------------------------ The problem in the UK has been that whilst it is all theoretically possible, the environment on a bus going over the UK's somewhat indifferently maintained roads has proved much more challenging to the equipment than when it was being tested sitting on a desk or bench top. There have therefore been a very large number of reliability problems resulting in partial or complete failures of the systems (hence different displays externally on front and sides). Generally for external displays, the electrically operated roller blind (as fitted to Croydon Tramlink) has proved to be more cost effective and more reliable. You can get into quite high costs with LED's particularly if you want true descenders on the lower case (requires more lines of LED's for effectively the same size of lettering). From a DDA perspective (for poorly sighted people of whom there are many more than wheelchair bound) , I personally think blinds are much easier to read than LED's on a moving vehicle. Internally I think that most companies have now managed to get their acts together and the equipment is now robust enough to be reliable (I saw some very good location based internal displays on buses in the Harrogate area, so they do exist in the UK). One thing that you have to get right and often separates the skilled 'sheep' from the cheapo 'goats' is the issue of buses being diverted or not completing whole routes. This is of course a matter of compiling the logical algorithms thoroughly enough to allow for all likely possibilities. There are unfortunately companies (often the well known 'big boys') who seem to either lack the skills or motivation or both to achieve this and hence the problems! ---------------------------------- David Bradley |
Electronic bus destination blinds
"Tim Scott" wrote in message ...
I recall there were a couple of T's (Titan's) as you mention trialed on the 35 and 45?? Some of the former London Buses sent off to sister companies such as Stagecoach etc converted their London style blinds to the electronic style ones. Examples: DMS/NV's from London General/Central going to Go Ahead North East Various Stagecoach vehicles including the earlier discarded TA's (Tridents) going to Stagecoach Hull, Cambridge. Southcoast and Manchester, Devon kept the London style blinds; VA's from London United/VN's going to First Leeds (though Potteries have not gone electronic) As mentioned Oxford, some First buses in Edinburgh/Glasgow have the electronic displays And Stageecoach in Cambridge. The blinds tend to alternate automatically between 'Citi [route no.], then 'City Centre' and '& [destination]'. |
Electronic bus destination blinds
In the message ...
"David Bradley" wrote: On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 11:03:24 -0000, "Dave Liney" wrote: "Alan (in Brussels)" wrote in message ... In the message ... Indeed, I recently travelled on (London) route 390 in a bus with such a screen in the centre of the upper-deck windscreen, and was similarly disappointed to see that none of the above-mentioned information (apart from generic TfL messages and advertising) was displayed. But AFAIK this is par for the course in today's narrowly commercially-oriented world; even the idea that the advertising would be more effective if it alternated with information of real value to passengers (the more specific the better, eg real-time details of alterations to the services...) has obviously not crossed the minds of those concerned. To do so would require a realtime link to pick up this information whereas the present system can be updated at depots. I'm sure your idea has crossed the minds of those concerned but perhaps their investigations showed that the present control-to-bus link was not up to the job and upgrading it just for this not cost effective. Dave I friend of mine writes on this subject: ------------------------------------------------------------ The problem in the UK has been that whilst it is all theoretically possible, the environment on a bus going over the UK's somewhat indifferently maintained roads has proved much more challenging to the equipment than when it was being tested sitting on a desk or bench top. There have therefore been a very large number of reliability problems resulting in partial or complete failures of the systems (hence different displays externally on front and sides). Generally for external displays, the electrically operated roller blind (as fitted to Croydon Tramlink) has proved to be more cost effective and more reliable. You can get into quite high costs with LED's particularly if you want true descenders on the lower case (requires more lines of LED's for effectively the same size of lettering). From a DDA perspective (for poorly sighted people of whom there are many more than wheelchair bound) , I personally think blinds are much easier to read than LED's on a moving vehicle. Internally I think that most companies have now managed to get their acts together and the equipment is now robust enough to be reliable (I saw some very good location based internal displays on buses in the Harrogate area, so they do exist in the UK). One thing that you have to get right and often separates the skilled 'sheep' from the cheapo 'goats' is the issue of buses being diverted or not completing whole routes. This is of course a matter of compiling the logical algorithms thoroughly enough to allow for all likely possibilities. There are unfortunately companies (often the well known 'big boys') who seem to either lack the skills or motivation or both to achieve this and hence the problems! ---------------------------------- Surely the *main advantage of using electronic technology* is the possibility of changing the displayed information en route, to take account of unforeseen situations - and there are various ways of compensating for any potential loss of readability, such as using larger font sizes with scrolling. So there's little point in making the change unless and until real-time updating is available as part of the *system*. And don't all TfL buses already have mobile radio facilities that could easily be adapted for selective text broadcasting? Regards, - Alan (in Brussels) |
Electronic bus destination blinds
On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 18:41:20 +0100, "Alan \(in Brussels\)"
wrote: In the message ... "David Bradley" wrote: On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 11:03:24 -0000, "Dave Liney" wrote: "Alan (in Brussels)" wrote in message ... In the message ... Indeed, I recently travelled on (London) route 390 in a bus with such a screen in the centre of the upper-deck windscreen, and was similarly disappointed to see that none of the above-mentioned information (apart from generic TfL messages and advertising) was displayed. But AFAIK this is par for the course in today's narrowly commercially-oriented world; even the idea that the advertising would be more effective if it alternated with information of real value to passengers (the more specific the better, eg real-time details of alterations to the services...) has obviously not crossed the minds of those concerned. To do so would require a realtime link to pick up this information whereas the present system can be updated at depots. I'm sure your idea has crossed the minds of those concerned but perhaps their investigations showed that the present control-to-bus link was not up to the job and upgrading it just for this not cost effective. Dave I friend of mine writes on this subject: ------------------------------------------------------------ The problem in the UK has been that whilst it is all theoretically possible, the environment on a bus going over the UK's somewhat indifferently maintained roads has proved much more challenging to the equipment than when it was being tested sitting on a desk or bench top. There have therefore been a very large number of reliability problems resulting in partial or complete failures of the systems (hence different displays externally on front and sides). Generally for external displays, the electrically operated roller blind (as fitted to Croydon Tramlink) has proved to be more cost effective and more reliable. You can get into quite high costs with LED's particularly if you want true descenders on the lower case (requires more lines of LED's for effectively the same size of lettering). From a DDA perspective (for poorly sighted people of whom there are many more than wheelchair bound) , I personally think blinds are much easier to read than LED's on a moving vehicle. Internally I think that most companies have now managed to get their acts together and the equipment is now robust enough to be reliable (I saw some very good location based internal displays on buses in the Harrogate area, so they do exist in the UK). One thing that you have to get right and often separates the skilled 'sheep' from the cheapo 'goats' is the issue of buses being diverted or not completing whole routes. This is of course a matter of compiling the logical algorithms thoroughly enough to allow for all likely possibilities. There are unfortunately companies (often the well known 'big boys') who seem to either lack the skills or motivation or both to achieve this and hence the problems! ---------------------------------- Surely the *main advantage of using electronic technology* is the possibility of changing the displayed information en route, to take account of unforeseen situations - and there are various ways of compensating for any potential loss of readability, such as using larger font sizes with scrolling. So there's little point in making the change unless and until real-time updating is available as part of the *system*. And don't all TfL buses already have mobile radio facilities that could easily be adapted for selective text broadcasting? Regards, - Alan (in Brussels) Your observations required a fair amount of effort for a reply and so my friend has come to the rescue with this response: ---------------------------------------- Information displayed on screens/LED displays inside buses is technologically now possible. There are two types of information. If the information is available on the bus, there is no problem (and no costs) for communications. Thus it is easy to have adverts and/or news information and if you wish you can create a ’virtual newspaper’ which can be updated each night in the garage. Clearly if advertising covers (or better exceeds) the costs of doing the daily updates, this becomes commercially attractive to the operator. Similarly where the bus is actually physically located along a route at any time, can be displayed from information that the bus itself has. This can be obtained from various Global Positioning Systems or the ticket machine inputs from the driver. This can optionally be enhanced by then comparing the information to schedules held in a database on board the bus itself and thus the passenger informed of whether the bus they are on is early, on time or late at that point. This is more complex but again no communications are involved and thus there are no difficulties and no costs for this, although there is the requirement to update the schedules within the database, to ensure that the algorithms are still relevant to present services and to allocate the bus to a schedule each day (the last item is normally required anyway for most systems using GPS for bus monitoring). The information, to which reference has been made, that would be really useful is what is happening to any further transport system that passengers intend to change into next. Thus a display on a bus on an appropriate route for what is happening for example on main line rail at Euston ,or the Northern Line at Oval, or Croydon Tramlink at Addington Village or even another bus route at Camberwell Green would be very useful to passengers who intended to continue their journeys via one of those modes. There are two problems. The information is of course only available externally to the bus in question and secondly it changes frequently. To make it available on the bus therefore requires an efficient communication system for the data from a central source to the bus(es) and also considerable usage of that communication channel to maintain the timeliness of the data. Conventional radio systems of the type frequently used for operational messages to the drivers of buses are not generally particularly good for larger more complex data packets which need to be sent very often. This is for a number of different reasons. In particular poor reception in built up areas can often scramble the data transfer and require its re-sending with consequent wasteful usage of the comms. link. More reliable systems have been available previously but because the frequent updating of all the different possible interchange modes to all the different vehicles required considerable bandwidth usage, the costs have been higher than operators have wished to pay based on the perceived marketing advantage of such a service. (Imagine for instance the total costs of sending a conventional SMS type mobile phone message to each bus every minute or so.) The advent of both more reliable transmission and more reasonable tariffs using GPRS (General Packet Radio Service) may now begin to make a difference and it is probable that we shall see more ‘off the bus’ real-time information available inside buses. This may still be very much ‘an act of faith’ by the operators concerned as I am not aware of any great research into the fiscal value of this display of information to bus operators in terms of extra passenger journeys made or its negative equivalent of passenger journeys not lost. -------------------------------- I suppose the bottom line with the technology currently available is whether the business advantage to the bus operator is sufficient to have a return on the investment and operating costs. Would you pay a higher ticket price for the delivery of this information while travelling to your ultimate destination? Or, because of the on board technology, would it attract more passengers than competition without such facilities? David Bradley |
Electronic bus destination blinds
David Bradley wrote:
The information, to which reference has been made, that would be really useful is what is happening to any further transport system that passengers intend to change into next. Thus a display on a bus on an appropriate route for what is happening for example on main line rail at Euston ,or the Northern Line at Oval, or Croydon Tramlink at Addington Village or even another bus route at Camberwell Green would be very useful to passengers who intended to continue their journeys via one of those modes. Perhaps. On smaller networks, though, it strikes me that the easy solution to bringing disruptions to passenger attention has been missed. Many buses are fitted with radio equipment, which could be hooked up to a PA system on the bus for very little money. Announcements regarding service disruption and similar news could easily be transmitted to the whole network for no greater cost than it can at present be transmitted to the driver only. Hamburg's U-Bahn system has such an "on-board long-line PA" facility, which is quite well-used to broadcast disruption information to passengers on its trains. I'm surprised I've never seen it applied to buses - certainly in London, where "connection" isn't a dirty word like it is in so many other places. Neil -- Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK To reply use neil at the above domain. |
Electronic bus destination blinds
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Electronic bus destination blinds
"Mrs Redboots" wrote in message
... The other day, I was in a car being driven northbound past Euston station, and happened to catch sight of a bus whose destination blind read "Short journey; ask driver!" We pondered this for awhile and assumed it would mean that the bus in question was stopping somewhere its destination blind didn't say, which is fair enough. But this sparked a discussion as to why modern buses don't have electronic destination blinds. I know the system was tried - I used to see the odd 35 with them - but presumably it was too prone to failure? On the other hand, if they can have electronic destination blinds on trains (which they not only can, but do), why don't they have them on buses? Inside the bus, too, would be helpful - how often have I had to ask the driver what number bus I've actually boarded...... Have a look at http://www.hanoverdisplays.co.uk/ for the latest types. -- Terry Harper, Web Co-ordinator, The Omnibus Society 75th Anniversary 2004, see http://www.omnibussoc.org/75th.htm E-mail: URL: http://www.terry.harper.btinternet.co.uk/ |
Electronic bus destination blinds
On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 20:59:08 +0000, Neil Williams
wrote: David Bradley wrote: The information, to which reference has been made, that would be really useful is what is happening to any further transport system that passengers intend to change into next. Thus a display on a bus on an appropriate route for what is happening for example on main line rail at Euston ,or the Northern Line at Oval, or Croydon Tramlink at Addington Village or even another bus route at Camberwell Green would be very useful to passengers who intended to continue their journeys via one of those modes. Perhaps. On smaller networks, though, it strikes me that the easy solution to bringing disruptions to passenger attention has been missed. Many buses are fitted with radio equipment, which could be hooked up to a PA system on the bus for very little money. Announcements regarding service disruption and similar news could easily be transmitted to the whole network for no greater cost than it can at present be transmitted to the driver only. Hamburg's U-Bahn system has such an "on-board long-line PA" facility, which is quite well-used to broadcast disruption information to passengers on its trains. I'm surprised I've never seen it applied to buses - certainly in London, where "connection" isn't a dirty word like it is in so many other places. Neil The problem with any communication system primarily intended for the driver is that you would require to arrange switching for messages so that the driver only got the operational ones and the passengers those intended for them. That would have to be done manually by the driver (probably not appreciated by either the DfT or the T&GWU) or you would need some clever recognition system that picked up a code in the message and did the switching. The latter option should be quite possible but would, I suspect, not be a cheap option as a retro-fit on vehicles that were already fiited with a radio system. You then still have to deal with the bandwidth issue. A small number of urgent messages (most of which are sent out as general calls to everyone) represents a very different level of usage to specific information to individual vehicles on a regular basis. At the end of the day, as always is the case in all aspects of life, you not only have to have the technology to do what you want, but you also have to have the resources (usually cash) as well. David Bradley on behalf of a friend |
Electronic bus destination blinds
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Electronic bus destination blinds
Colin Rosenstiel wrote to uk.transport.london on Wed, 17 Nov 2004:
I'm not so sure about that. Speaking from over 25 years working for the company that made the radios for Tramlink and other PT, distinguishing the message type is pretty trivial technology probably already incorporated. I'd be more worried about the voice quality being good enough for PA over the radio, though. A lot of modern buses do seem to have PA incorporated, so that the driver can make announcements - notably, of course, the one who was featured on the news last Tube strike telling her passengers that she would open the door when it was safe to do so! I imagine it wouldn't be beyond the realms of possibility for PA to be standard on all buses, so that drivers could relay information given over the radio. -- "Mrs Redboots" http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/ Website updated 6 November 2004 with new photos |
Electronic bus destination blinds
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Electronic bus destination blinds
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Electronic bus destination blinds
On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 12:38:27 +0000, Mrs Redboots
wrote: I imagine it wouldn't be beyond the realms of possibility for PA to be standard on all buses, so that drivers could relay information given over the radio. Agreed. It seems standard practice on the Continent for stops to be called by either the driver or an automated system. This, for someone unfamiliar with the area, makes the bus system far easier to negotiate. "This service terminates here" is also rather more helpful than the London tradition of flashing the lights prior to arrival. An ability to announce when a bus is turning short would also be useful. Neil |
Electronic bus destination blinds
Colin Rosenstiel wrote to uk.transport.london on Wed, 17 Nov 2004:
In article , (Mrs Redboots) wrote: Colin Rosenstiel wrote to uk.transport.london on Wed, 17 Nov 2004: I'm not so sure about that. Speaking from over 25 years working for the company that made the radios for Tramlink and other PT, distinguishing the message type is pretty trivial technology probably already incorporated. I'd be more worried about the voice quality being good enough for PA over the radio, though. A lot of modern buses do seem to have PA incorporated, so that the driver can make announcements - notably, of course, the one who was featured on the news last Tube strike telling her passengers that she would open the door when it was safe to do so! I imagine it wouldn't be beyond the realms of possibility for PA to be standard on all buses, so that drivers could relay information given over the radio. Indeed. I was thinking of long-line PA over the radio rather than direct within the bus. Yes, sorry, I wasn't clear - I realised that, but reckoned that if the technology to do this is expensive, an infrastructure already exists that could be used. -- "Mrs Redboots" http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/ Website updated 6 November 2004 with new photos |
Electronic bus destination blinds
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Electronic bus destination blinds
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