Northern line radios
 

What is it about the Northern line train radios not working that
stops the usual service pattern (particularly trains from both
Edgware and High Barnet taking both central branches) from running?

David

Northern line radios
 

"David Walters" wrote in message
...
What is it about the Northern line train radios not working that
stops the usual service pattern (particularly trains from both
Edgware and High Barnet taking both central branches) from running?

Part of the job of the train radio is to carry the train radio alarm traffic
that notifies the Line Controller in the event that a train becomes stalled
in a tunnel due to an incapacitated Train Operator (due to EG heart attack)
I'm not familiar with the Northern stock, but on the Picc. if the deadman is
released for 60 seconds an alarm starts to sound in the cab. Should the
driver not respond to this alarm in the following 30 seconds the OPO alarm
is operated, this sends a radio signal to the Controller and illuminated the
"calling on" light on the rear of the train. Should this happen, the
equipment allows the Controller to open up the trains PA to inform
passengers (and possibly ask for any member of staff travelling on the train
to go to the front cab and find out what's going on). The radio is also
required to contact the train behind and get that Operator to trip his train
forward and instigate the "stepping through" procedure. All of this was
required as part of the railway safety case that LUL had to present to HMRI
to get them to allow the introduction of OPO train operation on deep level
tube lines, previously all of these functions would have been performed by
the Guard.
HTH
--
Cheers, Steve.
Change from jealous to sad to reply.

Northern line radios
 

David Walters wrote:
What is it about the Northern line train radios not working that
stops the usual service pattern (particularly trains from both
Edgware and High Barnet taking both central branches) from running?

They can't run as many trains, so are running them in 2 shuttles

Northern line radios
 

"Steve Dulieu" wrote in message
.uk...

"David Walters" wrote in message
...
What is it about the Northern line train radios not working that
stops the usual service pattern (particularly trains from both
Edgware and High Barnet taking both central branches) from running?

Part of the job of the train radio is to carry the train radio alarm
traffic
that notifies the Line Controller in the event that a train becomes
stalled
in a tunnel due to an incapacitated Train Operator (due to EG heart
attack)
I'm not familiar with the Northern stock, but on the Picc. if the deadman
is
released for 60 seconds an alarm starts to sound in the cab. Should the
driver not respond to this alarm in the following 30 seconds the OPO alarm
is operated, this sends a radio signal to the Controller and illuminated
the
"calling on" light on the rear of the train. Should this happen, the
equipment allows the Controller to open up the trains PA to inform
passengers (and possibly ask for any member of staff travelling on the
train
to go to the front cab and find out what's going on). The radio is also
required to contact the train behind and get that Operator to trip his
train
forward and instigate the "stepping through" procedure. All of this was
required as part of the railway safety case that LUL had to present to
HMRI
to get them to allow the introduction of OPO train operation on deep level
tube lines, previously all of these functions would have been performed by
the Guard.
HTH

Bad form to reply to my own post I know but , should have added that AIUI,
because of the above trains are having to be doubleman-ed which is why the
service is somewhat curtailed...
--
Cheers, Steve.
Change from jealous to sad to reply.

Northern line radios
 

But witch is the largest risk?

a) travelling in a tube train with a failed radio system

b) having to drive to work, due to the tube train not running



Given the greater risk of accidents on the road each a tube or rail line is
such down. What sort of safety case is needed before an operator is allowed
to such down a line or cancel trains for 'safety reasons'?



"Steve Dulieu" wrote in message
.uk...

"David Walters" wrote in message
...
What is it about the Northern line train radios not working that
stops the usual service pattern (particularly trains from both
Edgware and High Barnet taking both central branches) from running?

Part of the job of the train radio is to carry the train radio alarm
traffic
that notifies the Line Controller in the event that a train becomes
stalled
in a tunnel due to an incapacitated Train Operator (due to EG heart
attack)
I'm not familiar with the Northern stock, but on the Picc. if the deadman
is
released for 60 seconds an alarm starts to sound in the cab. Should the
driver not respond to this alarm in the following 30 seconds the OPO alarm
is operated, this sends a radio signal to the Controller and illuminated
the
"calling on" light on the rear of the train. Should this happen, the
equipment allows the Controller to open up the trains PA to inform
passengers (and possibly ask for any member of staff travelling on the
train
to go to the front cab and find out what's going on). The radio is also
required to contact the train behind and get that Operator to trip his
train
forward and instigate the "stepping through" procedure. All of this was
required as part of the railway safety case that LUL had to present to
HMRI
to get them to allow the introduction of OPO train operation on deep level
tube lines, previously all of these functions would have been performed by
the Guard.
HTH
--
Cheers, Steve.
Change from jealous to sad to reply.

Northern line radios
 

Ian Ringrose wrote:
But witch is the largest risk?

a) travelling in a tube train with a failed radio system

b) having to drive to work, due to the tube train not running

You missed the most important one:

c) being stuck in a tube tunnel with people panicking on the train. This
because the only personel on board had a heart attack and nobody knows
about it, noone can give any information etc...

Like "sorry folks, you're on your own because we don't know what's going
on down there".

Northern line radios
 

Part of the job of the train radio is to carry the train radio alarm
traffic
that notifies the Line Controller in the event that a train becomes
stalled
in a tunnel due to an incapacitated Train Operator (due to EG heart
attack)
I'm not familiar with the Northern stock, but on the Picc. if the
deadman is
released for 60 seconds an alarm starts to sound in the cab. Should
the

Seems like a pretty good system and I guess you can understand why
running
a service without it would be difficult. However .... given that its
virtually impossible
that every radio in all 90 odd trains on the northern died
simultaniously the problem
is obviously at the line controllers end and I can't help wondering why
there wasn't
some sort of limited backup system?

B2003

Northern line radios
 

Boltar....we cant keep meeting like this.
Thats a very good question and one that I am sure is being asked in higher
places as we type. However its nothing to do with LUL. They dont own a train
radio system but they do pay someone else to supply one. Its supplied and
maintained by private enterprise and they promise it will be ok.
I thought thats what you wanted?
But because its you, i'll see what i can find.

"Boltar" wrote in message
oups.com...
Part of the job of the train radio is to carry the train radio alarm
traffic
that notifies the Line Controller in the event that a train becomes
stalled
in a tunnel due to an incapacitated Train Operator (due to EG heart
attack)
I'm not familiar with the Northern stock, but on the Picc. if the
deadman is
released for 60 seconds an alarm starts to sound in the cab. Should
the

Seems like a pretty good system and I guess you can understand why
running
a service without it would be difficult. However .... given that its
virtually impossible
that every radio in all 90 odd trains on the northern died
simultaniously the problem
is obviously at the line controllers end and I can't help wondering why
there wasn't
some sort of limited backup system?

B2003

Northern line radios
 

Tube service disruption
The Northern Line has normal services operating in both directions.

This will affect journeys from 10:20 on 09/12/04 until further notice. This
is due to the fault with the train radios being rectified.

Northern line radios
 

"Boltar" wrote in message

Seems like a pretty good system and I guess you can understand why
running a service without it would be difficult.

Out of curiosity, how did the service operate before the use
of these radios? Two men in the cab, or a less thorough
approach to safety?
--
Garry Smith

Northern line radios
 

Malcolm & Nika wrote:
Boltar....we cant keep meeting like this.
Thats a very good question and one that I am sure is being asked in
higher
places as we type. However its nothing to do with LUL. They dont own
a train

Problem is its very easy to ask questions and appear like you're
concerned
and trying to do something about the issue (politicians know all about
this),
but extracting head from arse and *actually* doing something is another
matter
entirely.

radio system but they do pay someone else to supply one. Its supplied
and
maintained by private enterprise and they promise it will be ok.

I've heard the PPP contracts are to be included in the next issue of
1001 Worlds Best Jokes.

I thought thats what you wanted?
But because its you, i'll see what i can find.
You're too kind. But which one of you should I thank?

B2003

Northern line radios
 

Malcolm & Nika wrote:
Boltar....we cant keep meeting like this.
Thats a very good question and one that I am sure is being asked in
higher
places as we type. However its nothing to do with LUL. They dont own
a train

Problem is its very easy to ask questions and appear like you're
concerned
and trying to do something about the issue (politicians know all about
this),
but extracting head from arse and *actually* doing something is another
matter
entirely.

radio system but they do pay someone else to supply one. Its supplied
and
maintained by private enterprise and they promise it will be ok.

I've heard the PPP contracts are to be included in the next issue of
1001 Worlds Greatest Jokes.

I thought thats what you wanted?
But because its you, i'll see what i can find.
You're too kind. But which one of you should I thank?

B2003

Northern line radios
 

On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 14:26:13 -0000, "Garry Smith"
wrote:

"Boltar" wrote in message

Seems like a pretty good system and I guess you can understand why
running a service without it would be difficult.

Out of curiosity, how did the service operate before the use
of these radios? Two men in the cab, or a less thorough
approach to safety?

Guards.


Rob.
--
rob at robertwoolley dot co dot uk

Northern line radios
 

Which one....??? what you mean??? I've got a split personality.

"Boltar" wrote in message
oups.com...

Malcolm & Nika wrote:
Boltar....we cant keep meeting like this.
Thats a very good question and one that I am sure is being asked in
higher
places as we type. However its nothing to do with LUL. They dont own
a train

Problem is its very easy to ask questions and appear like you're
concerned
and trying to do something about the issue (politicians know all about
this),
but extracting head from arse and *actually* doing something is another
matter
entirely.

radio system but they do pay someone else to supply one. Its supplied
and
maintained by private enterprise and they promise it will be ok.

I've heard the PPP contracts are to be included in the next issue of
1001 Worlds Greatest Jokes.

I thought thats what you wanted?
But because its you, i'll see what i can find.
You're too kind. But which one of you should I thank?

B2003

Northern line radios
 

"Robert Woolley" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 14:26:13 -0000, "Garry Smith"
wrote:

"Boltar" wrote in message

Seems like a pretty good system and I guess you can understand why
running a service without it would be difficult.

Out of curiosity, how did the service operate before the use
of these radios? Two men in the cab, or a less thorough
approach to safety?

Guards.

Duh! Of course. Thanks for politely answering such a dumb
question.
--
Garry Smith

Northern line radios
 

In article ,
(Robert Woolley) wrote:

On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 14:26:13 -0000, "Garry Smith"
wrote:

"Boltar" wrote in message

Seems like a pretty good system and I guess you can understand why
running a service without it would be difficult.

Out of curiosity, how did the service operate before the use
of these radios? Two men in the cab, or a less thorough
approach to safety?

Guards.


Rob.
--
rob at robertwoolley dot co dot uk


Yes

If the driver collapsed, the Guard would, after he realised nothing was
happening (or the deadman operated)and couldn't get a reply from the
driver, the Guard would just kick him out of the way and drive the train
to the next station. Then, if no spare driver was available the Guard
would detrain and take the train away after the driver had been taken off.
Not too much time lost and only one train affected, other than trains
behind being held up.

Now, there is a 1½ minute delay before the Line Controller gets the OPO
alarm, a further delay while he tries to contact the driver and probably
quite a considerable delay while the trains behind are leapfrogged until a
spare driver is got to the scene.

That's progress :-)

Roger

Northern line radios
 

wrote the following in:


If the driver collapsed, the Guard would

That's no help!

--
message by Robin May. That egotism was getting old.

Americans who voted for Bush: you ****ed up.

http://robinmay.fotopic.net

Northern line radios
 

"Robin May" wrote in message
...
wrote the following in:


If the driver collapsed, the Guard would

That's no help!

The full job title for a Guard was Guard, Emergency Train Driver.

Northern line radios
 

In article ,
(David Walters) wrote:

What is it about the Northern line train radios not working that
stops the usual service pattern (particularly trains from both
Edgware and High Barnet taking both central branches) from running?

Does anyone know what the fault with the train radios was? I used to work
in the business and there are technology issues with train radios in
general (I don't know about the Northern Line) which suggest that quite
modern equipment is becoming obsolete and therefore hard to maintain.

--
Colin Rosenstiel