James Christie wrote:
In message net.com,
Roger T. may have written...



They are a product and reflection of our society and of their parents.
They're not going to to be the offspring of wealthy, attentive
parents, I
wager, but the offspring of the those parents who couldn't give a damn
(and have probably never talked to them nicely in their life). We need
more information before we can draw any conclusions about how to deal
with
it... but actually catching the culprits would be a good start!


It's societies fault. It's their parent's fault. It's the environment's
fault. It's the school system's fault. It's everybody's and
everything's
bloody fault but it's not their fault.

With attitudes like that, no wonder many kids are like they are.

Funny, when we used to beat the crap outta kids who did this sort of
thing,
kids didn't do this sort of thing.

I've a feeling that there's a correlation in there somewhere.

I should think so Roger. When I was a lad (now theres a cliche!), I
would never contemplate breaking windows, vandalism by way of graffiti,
or mugging/attacking OAPs. As not only was I aware from a young that
such a thing was inherently wrong, but I also knew that if I did, not
only would I get a hiding from my father but I'd probably get one from
the person I'd committed said act against!

Don't tarnish all youths with the same brush. How often do you read in
the paper "a group of under-18s took the bus normally with no
commotion"? Just because one bunch of idiots caused chaos doesn't mean
that all teenagers are automatically guilty. I'll think you'll find that
most teenagers today still actually know that mugging pensioners is wrong!

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

In message , Dave Arquati
may have written...
James Christie wrote:
In message
ndnet.com, Roger T.
may have written...



They are a product and reflection of our society and of their parents.
They're not going to to be the offspring of wealthy, attentive
parents, I
wager, but the offspring of the those parents who couldn't give a damn
(and have probably never talked to them nicely in their life). We need
more information before we can draw any conclusions about how to
deal with
it... but actually catching the culprits would be a good start!


It's societies fault. It's their parent's fault. It's the environment's
fault. It's the school system's fault. It's everybody's and
everything's
bloody fault but it's not their fault.

With attitudes like that, no wonder many kids are like they are.

Funny, when we used to beat the crap outta kids who did this sort of
thing,
kids didn't do this sort of thing.

I've a feeling that there's a correlation in there somewhere.

I should think so Roger. When I was a lad (now theres a cliche!), I
would never contemplate breaking windows, vandalism by way of
graffiti, or mugging/attacking OAPs. As not only was I aware from a
young that such a thing was inherently wrong, but I also knew that if
I did, not only would I get a hiding from my father but I'd probably
get one from the person I'd committed said act against!

Don't tarnish all youths with the same brush. How often do you read in
the paper "a group of under-18s took the bus normally with no
commotion"? Just because one bunch of idiots caused chaos doesn't mean
that all teenagers are automatically guilty. I'll think you'll find
that most teenagers today still actually know that mugging pensioners
is wrong!

Erg, I think you're reading too much into my post. I wasn't referring to
teenagers in general, I was merely referring to those who think its ok
to commit the aforementioned acts for their own amusement.
My neighbour has a 15 year old daughter, and she has her friends about
all the time, and I could never complain about it, they're a smashing
group of kids, and I'm sure the same can be said for a lot of them.
As regards the kids who do commit vandalism/petty crimes etc, I'm sure
the parent have a lot to answer for there.
I have a few friends who are teachers, and some of the stories they come
back with are unreal, kids swearing at them willy nilly, knowing
there'll be next to no action taken against them, total breakdown of
discipline in the playground, bullying (between pupils) widespread and
graffiti and vandalism rampant. Physical violence against teachers is
now so regular that a lot of it is no longer reported, as the Police
can't do anything about it (burden of proof, is it in public interest
etc).
The teachers have even been told that they can no longer shout at their
pupils, as this may affect them emotionally. The school also has a
policy of zero expulsions, so these 'problem' kids are allowed back into
classroom to cause further havoc.
These 4 friends have been considering resigning for some time now, but
they realise that if they leave, some other poor sod will have to put up
with it, so they stay, as they think it'd be wrong to run out on the
school.
Can you call that normal, or ok? Why should anyone have to put up with
it?
Was it like that when you were at school? As it certainly wasn't with
mine!
--
Regards,

James Christie


THE OPTIMIST, PESSIMIST & BI ENGINEER

To the optimist, the glass is half full.
To the pessimist, the glass is half empty.
To the engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.
To the BI engineer, the glass is only half as big as it needs to be
...... and it's bloody near empty. "BOY".


Delete NOSPAM and insert Christie to email me.

"Roger T." wrote in
landnet.com:

Funny, when we used to beat the crap outta kids who did this sort of
thing, kids didn't do this sort of thing.

So, back in the good old days of social utopia, which kids did we 'beat the
crap' out of, if kids didn't do 'this sort of thing'?
Or did we use to beat the crap out of them all, just in case they might
have otherwise become kids who did this sort of thing? Institutional
physical abuse as a cure for society's ills... Not a particularly
attractive society, IMHO.

Rick.

Rich Mallard wrote:
From:
http://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/ne..._the_buses.php

Terror on the buses
By Linda Piper


A COMMUTER has described how he was caught up in a riot of drunken teenagers
on his way home from work.


snip

I had a similar experience on the 213 from New Malden to Kingston a few
weeks ago - bus pulled in at New Malden station and as usual I glanced
upstairs to see how busy the bus was. It wasn't full but had around 20
youths who seemed to be running rampage on the top deck banging on the
floor and windows, drinking and smoking. From the few more sensible ones
downstairs, I gathered they were all off to an under 18s disco in
Kingston. It was busy downstairs but none of the other passengers
(myself included) risked climbing the stairs for fear of God knows what.

These kids must have been between 13 and 17.

Just what is going on with our society? *sigh*

Cheers,

Steve M

(On re-reading that, I can't believe I'm only 26...)

Rich Mallard wrote:
From:
http://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/ne..._the_buses.php

Terror on the buses
By Linda Piper


A COMMUTER has described how he was caught up in a riot of drunken teenagers
on his way home from work.

Very similar experience on either the 69 or the 97 between Leyton and
Baker's Arms a few weeks ago.

Every time the bus stopped, about 20 of them piled off and beat the ****
out of whoever happened to be walking down the pavement.

Don't think they caused any bus damage, but they took a few casualties
on the way...

James Christie wrote to uk.transport.london on Mon, 28 Feb 2005:
I mean, do all the people who make todays policy think that it was a
total coincidence that when we had things like corporal punishment in
schools, or getting 30 days in jail for stealing a bag of coal from the Pit,
that these "barbaric" practices had nothing to do with the virtual
absence of graffiti/vandilism etc?

One of my pet peeves is when people confuse hitting children with
disciplining them. Nobody hit anybody at the school I went to, but we
were well-disciplined and there were plenty of sanctions if we *did*
misbehave. Which mostly we didn't..... But some people don't seem to
know how else to discipline a child, and if they can't hit, they don't
discipline, so little dears run wild....
--
"Mrs Redboots"
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 20 February 2005

"Dave Arquati"

Don't tarnish all youths with the same brush. How often do you read in the
paper "a group of under-18s took the bus normally with no commotion"? Just
because one bunch of idiots caused chaos doesn't mean that all teenagers
are automatically guilty. I'll think you'll find that most teenagers today
still actually know that mugging pensioners is wrong!

If you re-read my part of this thread, I never mentioned "all youths", in
fact, I took great pains not to.


--
Cheers
Roger T.

Home of the Great Eastern Railway
http://www.highspeedplus.com/~rogertra/

"James Christie"

I'd have a thought a sociopath would be absolutely ideal for the Army.
Someone who's prepared to Kill and follow orders, with no conscience.
Wasn't there a TV documentary on a few months back which gave the
statistic that only a small percentage of soldiers in Big Mistake 2
actually shot (aimed) at the enemy, they couldn't bring themselves to do
it.

I recall, a few years ago, a similar program on this side of the pond.


--
Cheers
Roger T.

Home of the Great Eastern Railway
http://www.highspeedplus.com/~rogertra/

Dave Arquati wrote:
James Christie wrote:

Don't tarnish all youths with the same brush. How often do you read in
the paper "a group of under-18s took the bus normally with no
commotion"? Just because one bunch of idiots caused chaos doesn't mean
that all teenagers are automatically guilty. I'll think you'll find that
most teenagers today still actually know that mugging pensioners is wrong!


You're absolutely right. I'm 30, and although I've seen an alarming rise
in antisocial behaviour since I was a teenager, I've always firmly
believed that only a very tiny minority are responsible for trouble.
Where I live, we have problems, but 90+ % of schoolkids/young adults
behave themselves pretty well, as did I and all my friends when I was
younger.

I firmly believe that people live up to the expectations people have of
them. Teenagers who feel universally written off, and are treated like
thugs, are more likely to act in an aggressive and antisocial manner.

Don't lump them all in together. Treat the ones who deserve it with some
respect.

Lee

"Rich Mallard" wrote in message
...

"Rich Mallard" wrote in message
...
From:
http://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/ne..._the_buses.php

Terror on the buses
By Linda Piper

[snip]

When I saw this title I thought of that dire series I once saw an episode of
on Granada Plus as it was then (or was it UK Gold) . Terror would be having
to watch that series.

Aaron