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Oyster Pre-Pay Anomaly?
Yesterday morning I used Pre-Pay on the tubes for the first time during the
week (previously I've only used it at the weekends). Much to my disappointment it seems to have charged me an incorrect fare. OK so it was in my favour but I'd much rather it got it right. I travelled from Blackfriars to Stepney Green at about 8:30am. As a Zone 1 to Zone 2 journey I expected to be charged £2.10 and I was. At 10:30am I travelled from Stepney Green to Liverpool Street. As a Zone 2 to Zone 1 journey I expected to be charged £2.10 again. Instead I was charged £1.70 which is the single fare for a Zone 1 journey. My only other usage of the card was an earlier tram journey so there doesn't seem any scope for capping to kick in. Oyster help desk seemed as baffled as I was, though unconcerned. Something I've overlooked or just a flaw in the system somewhere? G. |
Oyster Pre-Pay Anomaly?
"Graham J" wrote in message ... Yesterday morning I used Pre-Pay on the tubes for the first time during the week (previously I've only used it at the weekends). Much to my disappointment it seems to have charged me an incorrect fare. OK so it was in my favour but I'd much rather it got it right. I travelled from Blackfriars to Stepney Green at about 8:30am. As a Zone 1 to Zone 2 journey I expected to be charged £2.10 and I was. At 10:30am I travelled from Stepney Green to Liverpool Street. As a Zone 2 to Zone 1 journey I expected to be charged £2.10 again. Instead I was charged £1.70 which is the single fare for a Zone 1 journey. My only other usage of the card was an earlier tram journey so there doesn't seem any scope for capping to kick in. Oyster help desk seemed as baffled as I was, though unconcerned. Something I've overlooked or just a flaw in the system somewhere? ISTR Liverpool Street to Stepney Green is one of those "short inter-zone" journeys where the fare charged is just for the higher priced zone. Bethnal Green to Bank is another that springs to mind. I am surpised and rather saddened that the Oystercard helpdesk did not know this and respond appropiately. Could you contact me via email if you have a reference number as there may be a training need with somebody at the Oystercard helpdesk. |
Oyster Pre-Pay Anomaly?
On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 16:08:25 GMT, "Graham J"
wrote: Yesterday morning I used Pre-Pay on the tubes for the first time during the week (previously I've only used it at the weekends). Much to my disappointment it seems to have charged me an incorrect fare. OK so it was in my favour but I'd much rather it got it right. I travelled from Blackfriars to Stepney Green at about 8:30am. As a Zone 1 to Zone 2 journey I expected to be charged £2.10 and I was. At 10:30am I travelled from Stepney Green to Liverpool Street. As a Zone 2 to Zone 1 journey I expected to be charged £2.10 again. Instead I was charged £1.70 which is the single fare for a Zone 1 journey. My only other usage of the card was an earlier tram journey so there doesn't seem any scope for capping to kick in. Oyster help desk seemed as baffled as I was, though unconcerned. Something I've overlooked or just a flaw in the system somewhere? It is probably this is one of the special short distance cross boundary fares that would be charged at the Z1 price and not Z12. Given the short distances involved and the geographic nature of the system it is similar in nature to other such fares I am aware of. If you talk to the help desk again get them to check what the actual fare is between those two locations. -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
Oyster Pre-Pay Anomaly?
"Barry Salter" wrote in message ... On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 16:40:10 -0000, "Robin Mayes" wrote: Thanks for posting the list Barry! There seems to been some changes since I was selling tickets! I must say I'm surprised that there are that many fares that are at reduced rate in one direction only, this I fear could lead to confrontational situations over fares. |
Oyster Pre-Pay Anomaly?
"Robin Mayes" wrote in message ... "Barry Salter" wrote in message ... On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 16:40:10 -0000, "Robin Mayes" wrote: Thanks for posting the list Barry! There seems to been some changes since I was selling tickets! I must say I'm surprised that there are that many fares that are at reduced rate in one direction only, this I fear could lead to confrontational situations over fares. Note that this list is from the National Fares Manual and appears to only give fares starting from National Rail stations. I am sure that the fares are available in reverse, they are just not relevant for the purposes of the Fares Manual. Peter Smyth |
Oyster Pre-Pay Anomaly?
Barry Salter wrote:
On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 19:28:05 -0000, "Peter Smyth" wrote: Note that this list is from the National Fares Manual and appears to only give fares starting from National Rail stations. I am sure that the fares are available in reverse, they are just not relevant for the purposes of the Fares Manual. It does seem to include a couple of fares in both directions (e.g. Balham - Clapham North, Finsbury Park - Seven Sisters), but in the main it is just fares originating from NR interchange points. I would hope that LU have a fares chart listing the full range of sub-standard fares, even if it isn't on the website. Fares from Gloucester Road to Holland Park and Fulham Broadway are both charged as a short hop (as confirmed by making a Prepay journey or checking the charts on the wall at the stations), but don't appear to be listed. -- Dave Arquati Imperial College, SW7 www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London |
Oyster Pre-Pay Anomaly?
ISTR Liverpool Street to Stepney Green is one of those "short inter-zone"
journeys where the fare charged is just for the higher priced zone. Bethnal Green to Bank is another that springs to mind. Long after writing the message I suddenly wondered about that. I hadn't thought about it at the time as I don't consider a journey taking the best part of ten minutes to be short. Also there is not any mention of any such thing in the Fares and Tickets guide (except for Season Tickets) or on the TfL website as far as I can see so to the best of my knowledge such things didn't exist. Good job I have Pre-Pay really as if I'd been using ticket machines or even at the ticket office I'd have just been looking to buy based on the destination zone not the destination station and wouldn't have been looking out for a cheaper fare. I am surpised and rather saddened that the Oystercard helpdesk did not know this and respond appropiately. Could you contact me via email if you have a reference number as there may be a training need with somebody at the Oystercard helpdesk. No reference number. The thing that surprised me was just how long it seemed to take to find the journeys on their system given that they were the last two I'd made. G. |
Oyster Pre-Pay Anomaly?
"Barry Salter" wrote in message ... Euston - Mornington Crescent : £2.00 Heh. Has anyone ever actually made this journey? BTN |
Oyster Pre-Pay Anomaly?
"Sir Benjamin Nunn" wrote in message ... "Barry Salter" wrote in message ... Euston - Mornington Crescent : £2.00 Heh. Has anyone ever actually made this journey? BTN I used to all the time when I lived at Mornington Crescent, after getting off a train at err... Euston. Silly me! xx j |
Oyster Pre-Pay Anomaly?
"Jim" wrote in message k... Euston - Mornington Crescent : £2.00 Heh. Has anyone ever actually made this journey? BTN I used to all the time when I lived at Mornington Crescent, after getting off a train at err... Euston. Silly me! Quite. I'd also be interested in hearing about your tube journeys to work when you lived in Covent Garden and worked in Leicester Square. BTN |
Oyster Pre-Pay Anomaly?
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Oyster Pre-Pay Anomaly?
Colin Rosenstiel wrote:
In article , (Sir Benjamin Nunn) wrote: "Barry Salter" wrote in message . .. Euston - Mornington Crescent : £2.00 Heh. Has anyone ever actually made this journey? It wouldn't surprise me. People do Bayswater to Queensway or vice-versa. Surely not... you can *see* one from the other! I did once meet a couple of Imperial students on the Circle line on their way from Gloucester Road to High St Ken... having walked from Imperial to Gloucester Road to catch the Tube because they didn't know the way to Kensington High St on foot! Some scientists have no common sense... -- Dave Arquati Imperial College, SW7 www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London |
Oyster Pre-Pay Anomaly?
On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 18:23:27 +0000, Barry Salter
wrote: Section L of the National Rail Fares Manuals lists the following sub-standard cash fares: [snip list of routes] NB: Fares are ONLY available in the direction shown. In my experience, these one route there across a Z1/Z2 boundary that works in the reverse too. The fare is correctly charged at £2 - in fact £1.70 as I was using Oyster, but the point stands. -- Cheers, Jason. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet and in e-mail? |
Oyster Pre-Pay Anomaly?
"Sir Benjamin Nunn" wrote in message ... "Jim" wrote in message k... Euston - Mornington Crescent : £2.00 Heh. Has anyone ever actually made this journey? BTN I used to all the time when I lived at Mornington Crescent, after getting off a train at err... Euston. Silly me! Quite. I'd also be interested in hearing about your tube journeys to work when you lived in Covent Garden and worked in Leicester Square. BTN |
Oyster Pre-Pay Anomaly?
"Sir Benjamin Nunn" wrote in message ... "Jim" wrote in message k... Euston - Mornington Crescent : £2.00 Heh. Has anyone ever actually made this journey? BTN I used to all the time when I lived at Mornington Crescent, after getting off a train at err... Euston. Silly me! Quite. I'd also be interested in hearing about your tube journeys to work when you lived in Covent Garden and worked in Leicester Square. Yes, yes. But it doesn't take much imagination to work out that Euston (main line station.....get the hint??) - Mornington Crescent is often a reasonable choice. I knew that the net saving in terms of walking distance was probably only around 500 metres (and the full distance is quite a schlepp - have you walked it?), but the reduced effort when carrying luggage was very attractive, believe me! I even suspect that the tube might have been quicker than walking sometimes, although that was not a concern for me. Taxi, bus and walking have their various drawbacks too - people just weigh the pros and cons differently, depending on the situation and what their preferences are. xx j |
Oyster Pre-Pay Anomaly?
"Jim" wrote in message k... I'd also be interested in hearing about your tube journeys to work when you lived in Covent Garden and worked in Leicester Square. Yes, yes. But it doesn't take much imagination to work out that Euston (main line station.....get the hint??) - Mornington Crescent is often a reasonable choice. I knew that the net saving in terms of walking distance was probably only around 500 metres (and the full distance is quite a schlepp - have you walked it?), but the reduced effort when carrying luggage was very attractive, believe me! I even suspect that the tube might have been quicker than walking sometimes, although that was not a concern for me. Taxi, bus and walking have their various drawbacks too - people just weigh the pros and cons differently, depending on the situation and what their preferences are. Reduced effort? Euston NR to the CX platforms necessitates the descent of three escalators/stairs and considerable walking. At MC it's stairs and lift to get back to the surface - I'd rather walk about 1/3 of a mile on a level surface with my luggage than do that. Assuming an average waiting time of about 2 mins on the CX branch, I reckon it would actually be quicker to exit Euston on the Eversholt street and walk up to MC, than to take the Underground. When I worked in between MC and Camden Town, I thought nothing of walking to Euston, and I'm a right fat lazy *******, me. BTN |
Oyster Pre-Pay Anomaly?
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Oyster Pre-Pay Anomaly?
"Sir Benjamin Nunn" wrote in message ... "Jim" wrote in message k... I'd also be interested in hearing about your tube journeys to work when you lived in Covent Garden and worked in Leicester Square. Yes, yes. But it doesn't take much imagination to work out that Euston (main line station.....get the hint??) - Mornington Crescent is often a reasonable choice. I knew that the net saving in terms of walking distance was probably only around 500 metres (and the full distance is quite a schlepp - have you walked it?), but the reduced effort when carrying luggage was very attractive, believe me! I even suspect that the tube might have been quicker than walking sometimes, although that was not a concern for me. Taxi, bus and walking have their various drawbacks too - people just weigh the pros and cons differently, depending on the situation and what their preferences are. Reduced effort? Euston NR to the CX platforms necessitates the descent of three escalators/stairs and considerable walking. At MC it's stairs and lift to get back to the surface - I'd rather walk about 1/3 of a mile on a level surface with my luggage than do that. OK that's up to you, but do you at least admit that the decision depends on various factors, for example how heavy the luggage is and whether there are wheels on it? Whether it's raining? Can you honestly not imagine a situation where this tube journey might ever be a good idea? Even if you can't, you have to admit there's not much in it, surely? I'd rather walk 15 minutes to the tube from my house, but my partner prefers to walk 5 minutes to the bus stop, 5 minutes waiting and 5 minutes on the bus - to get to the tube! I have my preference, but I find myself not as shocked as you are that anyone should have a different preference. Assuming an average waiting time of about 2 mins on the CX branch, I reckon it would actually be quicker to exit Euston on the Eversholt street and walk up to MC, than to take the Underground. As I said, time was not an issue When I worked in between MC and Camden Town, I thought nothing of walking to Euston, and I'm a right fat lazy *******, me. That's not quite my point - what I'm saying is there may be circumstances when what seems to you at first sight like an idiotic solution is a perfectly good idea. xx j |
Oyster Pre-Pay Anomaly?
On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 11:47:10 +0000, Dave Arquati wrote:
I did once meet a couple of Imperial students on the Circle line on their way from Gloucester Road to High St Ken... having walked from Imperial to Gloucester Road to catch the Tube because they didn't know the way to Kensington High St on foot! Some scientists have no common sense... It isn't common sense they lacked, but local knowledge. I'd reckon these people were engineers rather than scientists. they chose a robust solution to a simple problem. -- http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p9683660.html (Class 108 54194 at Corby - last day of the Corby service, 1990) |
Oyster Pre-Pay Anomaly?
"Jim" wrote in message k... OK that's up to you, but do you at least admit that the decision depends on various factors, for example how heavy the luggage is and whether there are wheels on it? Whether it's raining? Can you honestly not imagine a situation where this tube journey might ever be a good idea? Even if you can't, you have to admit there's not much in it, surely? I agree there's not much in it, which is why I find the idea of someone paying a £2 fare for the privilege (vs a short, free walk) fairly unlikely. Obviously it would be a different matter if you already had a travelcard, so the cost of the journey would effectively be free, but that's straying from the original point about somebody paying the single fare to make a journey from Euston to MC. When I worked in between MC and Camden Town, I thought nothing of walking to Euston, and I'm a right fat lazy *******, me. That's not quite my point - what I'm saying is there may be circumstances when what seems to you at first sight like an idiotic solution is a perfectly good idea. Sorry, I can only see very, _very_ exceptional circumstances, in which paying full fare to go from the surface at Euston to the surface at MC would be a good idea. For example, if I needed to go somewhere North of MC, and there was a violent riot taking place in Eversholt street, I might consider it. BTN |
Oyster Pre-Pay Anomaly?
Chris Tolley wrote:
On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 11:47:10 +0000, Dave Arquati wrote: I did once meet a couple of Imperial students on the Circle line on their way from Gloucester Road to High St Ken... having walked from Imperial to Gloucester Road to catch the Tube because they didn't know the way to Kensington High St on foot! Some scientists have no common sense... It isn't common sense they lacked, but local knowledge. I'd reckon these people were engineers rather than scientists. they chose a robust solution to a simple problem. Actually I was generalising... they were medics... Surely common sense would dictate that you ask someone. Also combining the fact that the distance was only one Tube stop, and that they must have known that many other Imperial students go to the shops on Ken High St, would have led to a reasonable conclusion... Personally I'd probably baulk at the price more than the distance. -- Dave Arquati Imperial College, SW7 www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London |
Oyster Pre-Pay Anomaly?
Dave Arquati wrote: I did once meet a couple of Imperial students on the Circle line on their way from Gloucester Road to High St Ken... having walked from Imperial to Gloucester Road to catch the Tube because they didn't know the way to Kensington High St on foot! Some scientists have no common sense... Or the science museum tourists I followed down the subway to South Ken when there was no circle line. They muttered about how awkward it was to get to High St Ken |
Oyster Pre-Pay Anomaly?
"Sir Benjamin Nunn" wrote in message ... "Jim" wrote in message k... OK that's up to you, but do you at least admit that the decision depends on various factors, for example how heavy the luggage is and whether there are wheels on it? Whether it's raining? Can you honestly not imagine a situation where this tube journey might ever be a good idea? Even if you can't, you have to admit there's not much in it, surely? I agree there's not much in it, which is why I find the idea of someone paying a £2 fare for the privilege (vs a short, free walk) fairly unlikely. Obviously it would be a different matter if you already had a travelcard, so the cost of the journey would effectively be free, but that's straying from the original point about somebody paying the single fare to make a journey from Euston to MC. When I worked in between MC and Camden Town, I thought nothing of walking to Euston, and I'm a right fat lazy *******, me. That's not quite my point - what I'm saying is there may be circumstances when what seems to you at first sight like an idiotic solution is a perfectly good idea. Sorry, I can only see very, _very_ exceptional circumstances, in which paying full fare to go from the surface at Euston to the surface at MC would be a good idea. For example, if I needed to go somewhere North of MC, and there was a violent riot taking place in Eversholt street, I might consider it. BTN |
Oyster Pre-Pay Anomaly?
"Sir Benjamin Nunn" wrote in message ... "Jim" wrote in message k... OK that's up to you, but do you at least admit that the decision depends on various factors, for example how heavy the luggage is and whether there are wheels on it? Whether it's raining? Can you honestly not imagine a situation where this tube journey might ever be a good idea? Even if you can't, you have to admit there's not much in it, surely? I agree there's not much in it, which is why I find the idea of someone paying a £2 fare for the privilege (vs a short, free walk) fairly unlikely. Obviously it would be a different matter if you already had a travelcard, so the cost of the journey would effectively be free, but that's straying from the original point about somebody paying the single fare to make a journey from Euston to MC. When I worked in between MC and Camden Town, I thought nothing of walking to Euston, and I'm a right fat lazy *******, me. That's not quite my point - what I'm saying is there may be circumstances when what seems to you at first sight like an idiotic solution is a perfectly good idea. Sorry, I can only see very, _very_ exceptional circumstances, in which paying full fare to go from the surface at Euston to the surface at MC would be a good idea. For example, if I needed to go somewhere North of MC, and there was a violent riot taking place in Eversholt street, I might consider it. I think you'd be surprised how many people would do this under much less exceptional circumstances. xx j |
Oyster Pre-Pay Anomaly?
Sorry, I can only see very, _very_ exceptional circumstances,
in which paying full fare to go from the surface at Euston to the surface at MC would be a good idea. For example, if I needed to go somewhere North of MC, and there was a violent riot taking place in Eversholt street, I might consider it. And if there was a non-violent riot? Matt Ashby www.mattashby.com |
Oyster Pre-Pay Anomaly?
Dave Arquati wrote:
I did once meet a couple of Imperial students on the Circle line on their way from Gloucester Road to High St Ken... having walked from Imperial to Gloucester Road to catch the Tube because they didn't know the way to Kensington High St on foot! Some scientists have no common sense... Funnily enough, in all the years I've been travelling to IC (mostly, as last night, for the express purpose of consumption of intoxicating liquor...), I've still never learnt the route from HSK to the Union Bar. Which I suspect would have been quicker than waiting 5 minutes for a Circle line train, and walking up from Gloucester Road... |
Oyster Pre-Pay Anomaly?
Dave Arquati wrote:
Chris Tolley wrote: On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 11:47:10 +0000, Dave Arquati wrote: I did once meet a couple of Imperial students on the Circle line on their way from Gloucester Road to High St Ken... having walked from Imperial to Gloucester Road to catch the Tube because they didn't know the way to Kensington High St on foot! Some scientists have no common sense... It isn't common sense they lacked, but local knowledge. I'd reckon these people were engineers rather than scientists. they chose a robust solution to a simple problem. Actually I was generalising... they were medics... Oh, well, enough said! :) |
Oyster Pre-Pay Anomaly?
In message ,
Colin Rosenstiel writes I did once meet a couple of Imperial students on the Circle line on their way from Gloucester Road to High St Ken... having walked from Imperial to Gloucester Road to catch the Tube because they didn't know the way to Kensington High St on foot! Some scientists have no common sense... Not just scientists! There does seem to be some sort of level playing field, those that are intelligent tend to lack common sense and those less blessed with intelligence tend to be more savvy. -- Clive. |
Oyster Pre-Pay Anomaly?
James Farrar wrote: Dave Arquati wrote: I did once meet a couple of Imperial students on the Circle line on their way from Gloucester Road to High St Ken... having walked from Imperial to Gloucester Road to catch the Tube because they didn't know the way to Kensington High St on foot! Some scientists have no common sense... Funnily enough, in all the years I've been travelling to IC (mostly, as last night, for the express purpose of consumption of intoxicating liquor...), I've still never learnt the route from HSK to the Union Bar. Which I suspect would have been quicker than waiting 5 minutes for a Circle line train, and walking up from Gloucester Road... It's pretty simple... from hsk tube turn right and walk until you get to the albert hall |
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