Richmond seems like a nice place. It has a pleasant riverside, a good
variety of shops, and pretty good public transport.

It's a shame it seems to be totally clogged with cars. The environment
outside the railway station is pretty unpleasant, and makes a stark
contrast from the riverside. The bus station is also in a very odd place
and seemed to be rather poorly used (considering it serves such a busy
town) when I passed through it.

What consideration has been given to closing the road outside the
station to private vehicles, given that they can't stop there anyway to
visit the shops as there are stopping restrictions along the entire
length of the street? Church Road looks like an appropriate diversionary
route on paper, but is it so in practice?

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

"Dave Arquati" wrote in message
...
Richmond seems like a nice place. It has a pleasant riverside, a good
variety of shops, and pretty good public transport.

What consideration has been given to closing the road outside the station
to private vehicles, given that they can't stop there anyway

Doesn't it even have an exemption to allow cars to stop for the length of
time that it takes to drop someone off at the station? Many station
forecourts have short-term parking which allows you to stop for up to 20
minutes on station business (ie dropping off, picking up of buying a ticket
for travel later).

I'm trying to remember whether Richmond station fronts directly onto the
road or whether it has a layby where taxis etc wait.

Presumably if the road outside the station is closed, all that will happen
is that all the people dropping their spouses off at the station on their
own way to work by car will stop in the nearest street where stopping *is*
allowed, thereby transferring the congestion from one place to another. At
least drivers expect people to be stopping outside the station, whereas they
won't be so prepared for it in any other street.

Martin Underwood wrote:
"Dave Arquati" wrote in message
...
Richmond seems like a nice place. It has a pleasant riverside, a good
variety of shops, and pretty good public transport.

What consideration has been given to closing the road outside the
station to private vehicles, given that they can't stop there anyway

Doesn't it even have an exemption to allow cars to stop for the
length of time that it takes to drop someone off at the station? Many
station forecourts have short-term parking which allows you to stop
for up to 20 minutes on station business (ie dropping off, picking up
of buying a ticket for travel later).

I'm trying to remember whether Richmond station fronts directly onto
the road or whether it has a layby where taxis etc wait.

It has a layby.

Martin Underwood wrote:
"Dave Arquati" wrote in message
...

Richmond seems like a nice place. It has a pleasant riverside, a good
variety of shops, and pretty good public transport.

What consideration has been given to closing the road outside the station
to private vehicles, given that they can't stop there anyway


Doesn't it even have an exemption to allow cars to stop for the length of
time that it takes to drop someone off at the station? Many station
forecourts have short-term parking which allows you to stop for up to 20
minutes on station business (ie dropping off, picking up of buying a ticket
for travel later).

I'm trying to remember whether Richmond station fronts directly onto the
road or whether it has a layby where taxis etc wait.

Presumably if the road outside the station is closed, all that will happen
is that all the people dropping their spouses off at the station on their
own way to work by car will stop in the nearest street where stopping *is*
allowed, thereby transferring the congestion from one place to another. At
least drivers expect people to be stopping outside the station, whereas they
won't be so prepared for it in any other street.

There is a layby in front of the station, but it's not very substantial.
Perhaps a drop-off point could be established inside the car park (like
Reading station) or even on Church Road if a new entrance to the station
were established there (expensive!).

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

Dave Arquati wrote:
Richmond seems like a nice place. It has a pleasant riverside, a
good variety of shops, and pretty good public transport.

It's a shame it seems to be totally clogged with cars. The
environment outside the railway station is pretty unpleasant, and
makes a stark contrast from the riverside. The bus station is also
in a very odd place and seemed to be rather poorly used
(considering it serves such a busy town) when I passed through it.

It was probably the only available site, and it's not bad from an
operational point of view, being just off the one-way system. But the
stops on the roads in the town centre are more convenient for most
people.

What consideration has been given to closing the road outside the
station to private vehicles, given that they can't stop there
anyway to visit the shops as there are stopping restrictions along
the entire length of the street? Church Road looks like an
appropriate diversionary route on paper, but is it so in practice?

Well, for a start, there's a public car park next to the station, though
it might be possible to construct a different access to it. There were
plans for pedestrianisation in the 1970s which never came to anything.
Not sure if the subject has been raised more recently. Church Road is
fine off-peak for traffic entering Richmond from the A316, but in the
other direction tailbacks from the Richmond Circus roundabout (A316/A307
junction) clog the right turn out of Church Road.

--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

Richard J. wrote:

It was probably the only available site, and it's not bad from
an operational point of view, being just off the one-way system.
But the stops on the roads in the town centre are more convenient
for most people.

Not really. One of the major stops near the Square is on a very thin
sidewalk, and is so busy that people regularly spill out into the
street. Very dangerous in heavy traffic, as it forces people to walk
out in the street to avoid the crowds.

Well, for a start, there's a public car park next to the station,
though it might be possible to construct a different access to it.

Not really. It's hemmed in by buildings on all sides.

There were plans for pedestrianisation in the 1970s which never
came to anything. Not sure if the subject has been raised more
recently. Church Road is fine off-peak for traffic entering
Richmond from the A316, but in the other direction tailbacks from
the Richmond Circus roundabout (A316/A307 junction) clog the right
turn out of Church Road.

The problem with the inner parts of Richmond (i.e. George Street and
the Quad) is that it is used by everyone coming inward from the A305
Sheen Rd., Richmond Bridge via Hill Street and Petersham Road to get
onto the A316. If more people went via Queens Road to Sheen Road,
across the Windsor lines and down into the Manor Road area, it could
improve things enormously.

TheOneKEA wrote:
Richard J. wrote:

It was probably the only available site, and it's not bad from
an operational point of view, being just off the one-way system.
But the stops on the roads in the town centre are more convenient
for most people.


Not really. One of the major stops near the Square is on a very thin
sidewalk, and is so busy that people regularly spill out into the
street. Very dangerous in heavy traffic, as it forces people to walk
out in the street to avoid the crowds.

I did notice that. Such a scenario implies to me that the road should
probably be pedestrianised, and the bus stop relocated somewhere nearby
where people can wait more easily without disrupting the flow of
pedestrians. Of course, that may not be possible in Richmond - but
perhaps removing private through traffic might help. Mind you, they have
a similar problem in Oxford on a road which is bus-only.

Well, for a start, there's a public car park next to the station,
though it might be possible to construct a different access to it.

Not really. It's hemmed in by buildings on all sides.

I didn't notice which side of the station it was. If it's the northern
side, perhaps Kew Road could be public transport and car park access
only. Perhaps more radically, a new car park could be built on the
eastern side of the station over the railway line, with access from
Church Road, and the current car park replaced with something else.
However, I imagine that would be extremely expensive!

There were plans for pedestrianisation in the 1970s which never
came to anything. Not sure if the subject has been raised more
recently. Church Road is fine off-peak for traffic entering
Richmond from the A316, but in the other direction tailbacks from
the Richmond Circus roundabout (A316/A307 junction) clog the right
turn out of Church Road.

That might be remedied if Church Road became the main through route.
Traffic control and a box junction, with priority maintained for buses
entering Richmond by using transponders for a favourable traffic light
sequence.

The problem with the inner parts of Richmond (i.e. George Street and
the Quad) is that it is used by everyone coming inward from the A305
Sheen Rd., Richmond Bridge via Hill Street and Petersham Road to get
onto the A316. If more people went via Queens Road to Sheen Road,
across the Windsor lines and down into the Manor Road area, it could
improve things enormously.

Could the Manor Road level crossing cope with the extra traffic? If not,
I wonder how much it would cost to grade-separate it.

Is there a reason why traffic from the Bridge comes through the town
centre, rather than reaching the A316 via St Margarets?


--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

Dave Arquati wrote:
TheOneKEA wrote:

Not really. One of the major stops near the Square is on
a very thin sidewalk, and is so busy that people regularly
spill out into the street. Very dangerous in heavy traffic,
as it forces people to walk out in the street to avoid the
crowds.

I did notice that. Such a scenario implies to me that the
road should probably be pedestrianised, and the bus stop
relocated somewhere nearby where people can wait more easily
without disrupting the flow of pedestrians.

For that particular bus stop (which serves the 65, 371, H37, R68, R70
and more) I think the only thing to do would be to straighten the kink
in the road past the Square. The sidewalk on the bus stop side is thin,
but the corresponding sidewalk on the other side is quite wide.

Of course, that may not be possible in Richmond - but perhaps
removing private through traffic might help. Mind you, they
have a similar problem in Oxford on a road which is bus-only.

George Street could do with being pedestrianised, as long as people
could turn right off of Richmond Bridge and climb Richmond Hill, to
eventually link up with Queens Road. Otherwise it would be a disaster,
especially for the bus routes which use it.


Well, for a start, there's a public car park next to the
station, though it might be possible to construct a different
access to it.

Not really. It's hemmed in by buildings on all sides.

I didn't notice which side of the station it was. If it's the
northern side,

It is - right next to platform 7.

perhaps Kew Road could be public transport and car park
access only. Perhaps more radically, a new car park could
be built on the eastern side of the station over the railway
line, with access from Church Road, and the current car park
replaced with something else. However, I imagine that would
be extremely expensive!

There's already a car park over there, which is regularly rammed. A far
more controversial option would be to build the carpark on top of the
District and Windsor lines and ditch the eastern parapets of Church
Road bridge. There's certainly no lack of horizontal or vertical space
to install a truly massive carpark; the nearby Sheen Road junction
provides access as well.


The problem with the inner parts of Richmond (i.e. George
Street and the Quad) is that it is used by everyone coming
inward from the A305 Sheen Rd., Richmond Bridge via Hill
Street and Petersham Road to get onto the A316. If more
people went via Queens Road to Sheen Road, across the
Windsor lines and down into the Manor Road area, it could
improve things enormously.

Could the Manor Road level crossing cope with the extra
traffic?

I don't think so. Unless SWT could be persuaded to divert some of the
Reading semifasts and a few of the west-of-Hounslow stoppers via the
loop, I suspect that people would do a lot of waiting at the level
crossing.

If not, I wonder how much it would cost to grade-separate
it.

fx: loud and raucous laughter

It's hemmed in on both sides by houses and retail developments. You
would have to build a diveunder and take the Windsor lines underneath
the road. Oh, and you'd have to reconstruct North Sheen station, and
probably knock down the buildings immediately on either side of the
crossing.

IOW, grade separation is unlikely.


Is there a reason why traffic from the Bridge comes through
the town centre, rather than reaching the A316 via St Margarets?

No clue. Perhaps a key road in St. Margarets is blocked, or maybe the
roundabouts southwest of Twickenham Bridge are even worse than the Kew
roundabout...

TheOneKEA wrote:
Dave Arquati wrote:
TheOneKEA wrote:

[Richard J. wrote:]
there's a public car park next to the station, though it
might be possible to construct a different access to it.

Not really. It's hemmed in by buildings on all sides.

I didn't notice which side of the station it was. If it's the
northern side,

It is - right next to platform 7.

That's the small SWT car park (56 spaces). The one I meant is the
multi-storey NCP car park on the *south* side (410 spaces), accessed
from The Quadrant.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

TheOneKEA wrote:
Dave Arquati wrote:

TheOneKEA wrote:


Not really. One of the major stops near the Square is on
a very thin sidewalk, and is so busy that people regularly
spill out into the street. Very dangerous in heavy traffic,
as it forces people to walk out in the street to avoid the
crowds.

I did notice that. Such a scenario implies to me that the
road should probably be pedestrianised, and the bus stop
relocated somewhere nearby where people can wait more easily
without disrupting the flow of pedestrians.


For that particular bus stop (which serves the 65, 371, H37, R68, R70
and more) I think the only thing to do would be to straighten the kink
in the road past the Square. The sidewalk on the bus stop side is thin,
but the corresponding sidewalk on the other side is quite wide.


Of course, that may not be possible in Richmond - but perhaps
removing private through traffic might help. Mind you, they
have a similar problem in Oxford on a road which is bus-only.


George Street could do with being pedestrianised, as long as people
could turn right off of Richmond Bridge and climb Richmond Hill, to
eventually link up with Queens Road. Otherwise it would be a disaster,
especially for the bus routes which use it.

From what I saw of Richmond Hill, it didn't look particularly amenable
to high volumes of traffic, BICBW. Mind you, Richmond town centre
doesn't seem particularly amenable to lots of traffic either...

Well, for a start, there's a public car park next to the
station, though it might be possible to construct a different
access to it.

Not really. It's hemmed in by buildings on all sides.

I didn't notice which side of the station it was. If it's the
northern side,


It is - right next to platform 7.


perhaps Kew Road could be public transport and car park
access only. Perhaps more radically, a new car park could
be built on the eastern side of the station over the railway
line, with access from Church Road, and the current car park
replaced with something else. However, I imagine that would
be extremely expensive!


There's already a car park over there, which is regularly rammed. A far
more controversial option would be to build the carpark on top of the
District and Windsor lines and ditch the eastern parapets of Church
Road bridge. There's certainly no lack of horizontal or vertical space
to install a truly massive carpark; the nearby Sheen Road junction
provides access as well.

Of course, the problem with building a massive car park is that it will
probably encourage more people to drive to Richmond station when they
would have otherwise walked, used the bus or used a more local station.

The problem with the inner parts of Richmond (i.e. George
Street and the Quad) is that it is used by everyone coming
inward from the A305 Sheen Rd., Richmond Bridge via Hill
Street and Petersham Road to get onto the A316. If more
people went via Queens Road to Sheen Road, across the
Windsor lines and down into the Manor Road area, it could
improve things enormously.

Could the Manor Road level crossing cope with the extra
traffic?

I don't think so. Unless SWT could be persuaded to divert some of the
Reading semifasts and a few of the west-of-Hounslow stoppers via the
loop, I suspect that people would do a lot of waiting at the level
crossing.


If not, I wonder how much it would cost to grade-separate
it.


fx: loud and raucous laughter

It's hemmed in on both sides by houses and retail developments. You
would have to build a diveunder and take the Windsor lines underneath
the road. Oh, and you'd have to reconstruct North Sheen station, and
probably knock down the buildings immediately on either side of the
crossing.

IOW, grade separation is unlikely.

So the answer is "expensive". :-)

Is there a reason why traffic from the Bridge comes through
the town centre, rather than reaching the A316 via St Margarets?


No clue. Perhaps a key road in St. Margarets is blocked, or maybe the
roundabouts southwest of Twickenham Bridge are even worse than the Kew
roundabout...



--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London