Heathrow Connect - can't connect !!
 

Late last week and all this weekend 18/19-June-2005) the brand new
multimillion pound Heathrow Connect service has - well - not actually
connected with Heathrow. Due to the pathing problems (sorry signaling
problems) at Airport Junction the service has had great difficulty in
keeping to any sort of timetable. Indeed the delays have built up every
day until the last trains to/from Paddington/Heathrow have been
anything up to 45 minutes late. The problem is that coming out of or
going into the Airport the trains have to be switched from the slow
local lines across the fast Intercity lines. This has meant that all
trains have had to be halted to allow the Connect trains to enter/exit
the Airport Branch. The solution has been to terminate the Connect
trains at Hayes & Harlington and tell the pax to catch the 140 bus to
Heathrow. Well at least the bus is only 1.20 rather than 6 pounds for
this short one mile journey!! SB.

Heathrow Connect - can't connect !!
 

SB wrote:
Late last week and all this weekend 18/19-June-2005) the brand new
multimillion pound Heathrow Connect service has - well - not actually
connected with Heathrow. Due to the pathing problems (sorry signaling
problems) at Airport Junction the service has had great difficulty in
keeping to any sort of timetable. Indeed the delays have built up every
day until the last trains to/from Paddington/Heathrow have been
anything up to 45 minutes late. The problem is that coming out of or
going into the Airport the trains have to be switched from the slow
local lines across the fast Intercity lines. This has meant that all
trains have had to be halted to allow the Connect trains to enter/exit
the Airport Branch. The solution has been to terminate the Connect
trains at Hayes & Harlington and tell the pax to catch the 140 bus to
Heathrow. Well at least the bus is only 1.20 rather than 6 pounds for
this short one mile journey!! SB.

I thought the intention was to run the Heathrow bound trains the "wrong
way" through Airport Junction, ie. up the track between the main and
relief lines?

I have seen platform 5 used at Hayes rather a lot this week.

Also, does anyone know what FGWL is doing with the spare 165`s they`d
have freed up? Some of the rush hour trains could do with a bit of
lengthening...

Stu

Heathrow Connect - can't connect !!
 

Heathrow Connect - can't connect !!
 

SB wrote:
Late last week and all this weekend 18/19-June-2005) the brand new
multimillion pound Heathrow Connect service has - well - not actually
connected with Heathrow. Due to the pathing problems (sorry signaling
problems) at Airport Junction the service has had great difficulty in
keeping to any sort of timetable. Indeed the delays have built up every
day until the last trains to/from Paddington/Heathrow have been
anything up to 45 minutes late. The problem is that coming out of or
going into the Airport the trains have to be switched from the slow
local lines across the fast Intercity lines. This has meant that all
trains have had to be halted to allow the Connect trains to enter/exit
the Airport Branch. The solution has been to terminate the Connect
trains at Hayes & Harlington and tell the pax to catch the 140 bus to
Heathrow. Well at least the bus is only 1.20 rather than 6 pounds for
this short one mile journey!! SB.

Pretty poor for a new, high-profile service. One hopes that the
equipment, layout and timetabling is robust enough for these to just be
teething problems. However it may be that infrastructure works are
needed sooner rather than later if this new service is not to heavily
impact on both Great Western and Heathrow Express operations.

Heathrow Connect - can't connect !!
 

wrote in message
ups.com...

Also, does anyone know what FGWL is doing with the spare 165`s they`d
have freed up? Some of the rush hour trains could do with a bit of
lengthening...

IIRC, they have (had?) three or four on loan from Chiltern, which one would
expect to be going back to them now.

Heathrow Connect - can't connect !!
 

Heathrow Connect - can't connect !!
 

Richard J. wrote:
"If you have to rely on London Underground to get you to the airport
everyday, this service will revolutionise the way you travel." Some
revolution!

I never understood the real point of services from paddington. Unless
you
live in or near the paddington area or routes leading into it then
you've still got to crawl around on the circle line to get there and
wait
for the service to leave. By the time you've done that you could
probably
be halfway to heathrow on the piccadilly line and have paid less than
half
the price. Surely if they want a really useful airport service they
should extend the 3rd rail system from south of the river to heathrow
too?

B2003

Heathrow Connect - can't connect !!
 

"Richard J." wrote in message
. uk...

Heathrow Connect are still only running to Hayes tonight. In fact I've
just e-mailed them about the total lack of any explanation, forecast or
apology on their site. All they say is that "Heathrow Connect is
currently only operating between London and Hayes & Harlington", despite
claiming that "it's the best way to travel locally to and from Heathrow
Airport".

Make a complaint to the Advertising Standards Authority on the grounds that what
the advert says is not true. Is there any qualifier in the advert about the
service being occational or the usual one about not operating any of the
advertised services at all.

Its about time the ASA used their powers to force the transport industry to
shape up.

Roger

Heathrow Connect - can't connect !!
 

Boltar wrote:

Richard J. wrote:

"If you have to rely on London Underground to get you to the airport
everyday, this service will revolutionise the way you travel." Some
revolution!


I never understood the real point of services from paddington. Unless
you
live in or near the paddington area or routes leading into it then
you've still got to crawl around on the circle line to get there and
wait
for the service to leave. By the time you've done that you could
probably
be halfway to heathrow on the piccadilly line and have paid less than
half
the price.

Well, Heathrow Express is for business types in a hurry who probably get
a taxi to/from Paddington anyway; for others, even though it's so
expensive, it's quicker for a journey like Euston - Heathrow.

Heathrow Connect isn't designed for Paddington, it's designed to serve
the bits of west London that other rail services just can't reach.

Surely if they want a really useful airport service they
should extend the 3rd rail system from south of the river to heathrow
too?

They should do that anyway, yes. That's been mooted for ages though
(known as Airtrack).

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

Heathrow Connect - can't connect !!
 

In message
Dave Arquati wrote:

[snip]

Surely if they want a really useful airport service they
should extend the 3rd rail system from south of the river to heathrow
too?

They should do that anyway, yes. That's been mooted for ages though
(known as Airtrack).


They were talking about doing that when I lived near Feltham and I left there
in 1957, so don't hold your breath.

--
Graeme Wall
This address is not read, substitute trains for rail.
Transport Miscellany at http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail/index.html

Heathrow Connect - can't connect !!
 

Dave Arquati wrote to uk.transport.london on Tue, 21 Jun 2005:

Surely if they want a really useful airport service they
should extend the 3rd rail system from south of the river to heathrow
too?

They should do that anyway, yes. That's been mooted for ages though
(known as Airtrack).

Wish they would... but they've even taken off the dedicated T123 bus
from Feltham and replaced it with I-forget-what that goes just to the
Central Bus Terminal. Useful enough, but not as reliable as before.
--
"Mrs Redboots"
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 23 May 2005

Heathrow Connect - can't connect !!
 

"If you have to rely on London Underground to get you to the airport
everyday, this service will revolutionise the way you travel." Some
revolution!

I never understood the real point of services from paddington. Unless
you
live in or near the paddington area or routes leading into it then
you've still got to crawl around on the circle line to get there and
wait
for the service to leave.

Well, you could always use the Bakerloo...

By the time you've done that you could
probably
be halfway to heathrow on the piccadilly line and have paid less than
half the price.

HEx is not supposed to be a substitute for the Piccadilly line. It is
not competing with LU for traffic, hence the extortionate fares. It is
supposed to compete with taxis; HEx to Paddington then taxi onward to
destination in central London being both faster and cheaper than
taking a taxi for the entire journey.

Surely if they want a really useful airport service they
should extend the 3rd rail system from south of the river to heathrow
too?

You seem to be assuming that providing a really useful service is one
of the aims of the privatised rail industry. See also the threads on
the London-Brighton bike ride, etc.

Heathrow Connect - can't connect !!
 

Roger R wrote:
"Richard J." wrote in message
. uk...

Heathrow Connect are still only running to Hayes tonight. In fact
I've just e-mailed them about the total lack of any explanation,
forecast or apology on their site. All they say is that "Heathrow
Connect is currently only operating between London and Hayes &
Harlington", despite claiming that "it's the best way to travel
locally to and from Heathrow Airport".

Make a complaint to the Advertising Standards Authority on the
grounds that what the advert says is not true. Is there any
qualifier in the advert about the service being occational or the
usual one about not operating any of the advertised services at all.

There is no such qualifier on their website www.heathrowconnect.co.uk,
just the blatant contradiction between their marketing blurb and the
actual service info.

I travelled to Hayes on one of their new Class 360s this morning.
Although it was indicated as going to Hayes on station displays, the
on-board announcements claimed it was going to Heathrow. Apparently
there is no provision in the p.a. system for terminating anywhere but
Heathrow. Amazingly there were no live announcements on the train about
stopping short at Hayes, not even when we pulled into the bay platform
there!

According to the driver, the problem at Heathrow is that once they enter
the stabling siding that they use at Terminal 4, the signal won't let
them out again. So they are stuck with terminating at Hayes until BAA
sort out the signal at Terminal 4, using their contractor Network Rail.
They couldn't even manage the Hayes-Paddington service properly this
afternoon, as the 16:41 was cancelled.

Incidentally, as far as I could see (from another train), the connection
from the Down Relief west of Hayes to the Heathrow branch is only to the
Up Airport track, so presumably the Heathrow-bound Connect services use
this track and switch to the Down Airport after the junction. By doing
this, the Connect trains won't interfere with FGW's Up and Down Main.

--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

Heathrow Connect - can't connect !!
 

Boltar wrote:
I never understood the real point of services from paddington. Unless you
live in or near the paddington area or routes leading into it then
you've still got to crawl around on the circle line to get there and wait
for the service to leave. By the time you've done that you could probably
be halfway to heathrow on the piccadilly line and have paid less than half
the price. Surely if they want a really useful airport service they
should extend the 3rd rail system from south of the river to heathrow
too?

If laden down with luggage (and possibly children), doing Jubilee-
Bakerloo-Paddington then Heathrow Express is well worth the extra
ten quid for speed and accessability over Jubilee-Picadilly. IMO.

#Paul

Heathrow Connect - can't connect !!
 

Richard J. wrote:
Roger R wrote:

"Richard J." wrote in message
o.uk...


Heathrow Connect are still only running to Hayes tonight. In fact
I've just e-mailed them about the total lack of any explanation,
forecast or apology on their site. All they say is that "Heathrow
Connect is currently only operating between London and Hayes &
Harlington", despite claiming that "it's the best way to travel
locally to and from Heathrow Airport".

Make a complaint to the Advertising Standards Authority on the
grounds that what the advert says is not true. Is there any
qualifier in the advert about the service being occational or the
usual one about not operating any of the advertised services at all.


There is no such qualifier on their website www.heathrowconnect.co.uk,
just the blatant contradiction between their marketing blurb and the
actual service info.

I travelled to Hayes on one of their new Class 360s this morning.
Although it was indicated as going to Hayes on station displays, the
on-board announcements claimed it was going to Heathrow. Apparently
there is no provision in the p.a. system for terminating anywhere but
Heathrow. Amazingly there were no live announcements on the train about
stopping short at Hayes, not even when we pulled into the bay platform
there!

According to the driver, the problem at Heathrow is that once they enter
the stabling siding that they use at Terminal 4, the signal won't let
them out again. So they are stuck with terminating at Hayes until BAA
sort out the signal at Terminal 4, using their contractor Network Rail.
They couldn't even manage the Hayes-Paddington service properly this
afternoon, as the 16:41 was cancelled.

Incidentally, as far as I could see (from another train), the connection
from the Down Relief west of Hayes to the Heathrow branch is only to the
Up Airport track, so presumably the Heathrow-bound Connect services use
this track and switch to the Down Airport after the junction. By doing
this, the Connect trains won't interfere with FGW's Up and Down Main.

So far Heathrow Connect seems a bit rubbish. Didn't they do some trial
runs into T4 before they started running the service officially?

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

Heathrow Connect - can't connect !!
 

"1577+2260" wrote

So there are two options for down trains:

* remain on the relief lines at Hayes, and use the Up Airport flyover.
This involves running on the UA line between Airport Junction (11m14c)
and Heathrow Tunnel Junction (12m27c), i.e. blocking the line (with
its 4tph HEx and 2tph HC coming the other way) for over a mile.

* cross to the down main at Southall East, in the process taking a
stopping path on the down main and blocking the up main when crossing
over.

AIUI the first one is the one that is to be used. Although it's better
than the crossing move and stopping on the fast lines, it still seems
quite a potential constraint - 6tph up vs 2tph down over that mile is
asking for trouble once things are running out of course.

The June MR confirms your understanding, and gives some details of how
Airport Junction would be modified for Crossrail. Basically, the Up Airport
flyover would become the Down Crossrail, and a new Up Airport flyover would
be built right across to the north of the layout, with a ramp down for Up
Crossrail trains, and a flyover back to the middle of the layout for Up
Heathrow Express. Hayes & Harlington would be rebuilt, with the Up Relief
platform becoming an island, with Up Crossrail Airport trains using the
outer face.

As well as the bidirectional working of part of the Up Airport line, Up
Heathrow Connect trains will, when they're allowed back to the Airport, have
to cross the Down Relief on the flat.

Peter

Heathrow Connect - can't connect !!
 

In article , c.uk writes
If laden down with luggage (and possibly children), doing Jubilee-
Bakerloo-Paddington then Heathrow Express is well worth the extra ten
quid for speed and accessability over Jubilee-Picadilly. IMO.

If laden down with luggage (and possibly children), the fewer changes
the better, surely.

--
Thoss

Heathrow Connect - can't connect !!
 

thoss wrote:
In article ,

If laden down with luggage (and possibly children), doing Jubilee-
Bakerloo-Paddington then Heathrow Express is well worth the extra
ten quid for speed and accessability over Jubilee-Picadilly. IMO.

If laden down with luggage (and possibly children), the fewer
changes the better, surely.

Changes which involve carrying heavy luggage up stairs may be worth
avoiding, even if it means 2 step-free changes instead. But from the
Jubilee Line, a change at Westminster to the District and at Barons
Court or Hammersmith to the Piccadilly (both step-free) would be better
than Jubilee-Piccadilly at Green Park.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

Heathrow Connect - can't connect !!
 

I'm a bit confused by what's been happening as reported on this thread.
Can someone more knowledgeable than me clarify, please?

As I understand it, Heathrow connect started with the summer timetable,
running to Heathrow. Owing to problems, timekeeping left a lot to be
desired. OK so far.

As from some date (unknown to me) the service was truncated at Hayes
whilst signalling problems are sorted out at Heathrow. The problem is
that the signal will not let trains out of the headshunt.

This is where I get confused. How could the service have run at all,
however badly, if this was the problem? Is it that the service hasn't
yet *actually* run to Heathrow? Is the problem something else, such as
an exceptionally long setting/release time allowing *a* service but not
the planned one? Awkward Slough IECC staff? Anytheng else?

Help!

Thanks,

PhilD


--

Heathrow Connect - can't connect !!
 

PhilD wrote:
I'm a bit confused by what's been happening as reported on this
thread. Can someone more knowledgeable than me clarify, please?

As I understand it, Heathrow connect started with the summer
timetable, running to Heathrow.

It started on Sunday 12 June. The Evening Standard claimed (on 16 June)
that the official launch was on Thursday 16 June.

Owing to problems, timekeeping left a lot to be desired. OK so far.

As from some date (unknown to me) the service was truncated at Hayes
whilst signalling problems are sorted out at Heathrow. The problem
is that the signal will not let trains out of the headshunt.

This is where I get confused. How could the service have run at
all, however badly, if this was the problem? Is it that the
service hasn't yet *actually* run to Heathrow? Is the problem
something else, such as an exceptionally long setting/release time
allowing *a* service but not the planned one? Awkward Slough IECC
staff? Anytheng else?

God knows. I've just phoned the number given on the HC website for "up
to the minute information". The person who answered couldn't say what
the problem was, or when the service to Heathrow might start/resume.
She wasn't even sure what company she worked for. And of course, they
haven't replied to the e-mail I sent on Monday.

The registrant of the www.heathrowconnect.co.uk site is BAA plc.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

Heathrow Connect - can't connect !!
 

Richard J. wrote:

God knows. I've just phoned the number given on the HC website for "up
to the minute information". The person who answered couldn't say what
the problem was, or when the service to Heathrow might start/resume.
She wasn't even sure what company she worked for. And of course, they
haven't replied to the e-mail I sent on Monday.

The registrant of the www.heathrowconnect.co.uk site is BAA plc.

I travelled on one this morning from Paddington to Southall. There was
no indication that it would terminate short; in fact there were frequent
onboard announcements that the destination was Heathrow. What the
reality was I cannot of course say.

--
John Ray, London UK.

Heathrow Connect - can't connect !!
 

thoss wrote:
In article , c.uk writes
If laden down with luggage (and possibly children), doing Jubilee-
Bakerloo-Paddington then Heathrow Express is well worth the extra ten
quid for speed and accessability over Jubilee-Picadilly. IMO.

If laden down with luggage (and possibly children), the fewer changes
the better, surely.

Not really. Jubilee-Bakerloo is cross platform; and getting out
at Heathrow is much easier from HExpress than Picadilly. And since
Green Park lifts are usually a pain, I'd change at Westminster then
Hammersmith to get to the Picadilly in any case. Also, HExpress
carriages tend to be less crowded.

I agree, though, there's not much in it ... but then 15mins on HExpress
(plus some waiting time) is better than some uncertain 60+ on the Picadilly.

#Paul

Heathrow Connect - can't connect !!
 

Dave Arquati wrote:
Richard J. wrote:
According to the driver, the problem at Heathrow is that once they
enter the stabling siding that they use at Terminal 4, the signal
won't let them out again. So they are stuck with terminating at
Hayes until BAA sort out the signal at Terminal 4, using their
contractor Network Rail. They couldn't even manage the
Hayes-Paddington service properly this afternoon, as the 16:41 was
cancelled.

So far Heathrow Connect seems a bit rubbish. Didn't they do some
trial runs into T4 before they started running the service
officially?

Sorry, my reference to T4 should have read T123, as that is where
Heathrow Connect is supposed to terminate, and presumably where the
stabling siding is.

--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)