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Emergency services gone crazy
Is it just me, or has the amount of emergency services using their sirens
increased in the days since 7/7? Each and every time I set foot outside this week, the air has been split by about three emergency vehicles sreaming past. Hey! As I type this I can hear the shreik through the window! There is an almost 100% certainty of going deaf whilst walking through Shepherds Bush Common these days. Is the hot weather causing emergencies, or are more people panicking and ringing emergency services for whatever reason; or maybe there are the usual number of bomb hoaxes rung through by cretins? I saw the police block off Wood Lane (to the BBC) the other day. That's got hoax written all over it. Or maybe I'm only noticing the racket now. P |
Emergency services gone crazy
"Phil Lepherd" wrote in message ... Is it just me, or has the amount of emergency services using their sirens increased in the days since 7/7? I was thinking exactly the same this morning. Mick (Northolt) |
Emergency services gone crazy
"Phil Lepherd" wrote in
: Is it just me, or has the amount of emergency services using their sirens increased in the days since 7/7? Each and every time I set foot outside this week, the air has been split by about three emergency vehicles sreaming past. Hey! As I type this I can hear the shreik through the window! I don't know about increased siren use, but if you walk through the streets of London you can't help but notice an incredibly high police presence. Is the hot weather causing emergencies, or are more people panicking and ringing emergency services for whatever reason; or maybe there are the usual number of bomb hoaxes rung through by cretins? I saw the police block off Wood Lane (to the BBC) the other day. That's got hoax written all over it. Wood Lane was shut off because a passenger on a bus outside Television Centre noticed an unattended package. Given that this happened just a few days after the bombings, would *you* be the one to say "oh not to worry, someone's probably just forgotten their lunch"? Also bear in mind that the BBC is considered a high-profile target for terrorists: on 7/7 there were police officers stationed outside every BBC building (on Home Office instructions, apparently), and even now the BBC is on a permanent heightened state of alert. Just stand in front of TV Centre for 5 minutes and watch the vehicles going in and you'll see that all cars and bags coming on to BBC premises are being thoroughly searched. Iain |
Emergency services gone crazy
Well the BBC in Wood Lane was target a few years ago (admittedly by the IRA
I believe) and a suspect vehicle (Taxi?) was blown up by the authorities. Also, now everyone is on tender hooks, you'll find that the empty McDonalds back all of a sudden becomes an unattended package AKA a suspect package. Loony T "Iain" wrote in message ... "Phil Lepherd" wrote in : Is it just me, or has the amount of emergency services using their sirens increased in the days since 7/7? Each and every time I set foot outside this week, the air has been split by about three emergency vehicles sreaming past. Hey! As I type this I can hear the shreik through the window! I don't know about increased siren use, but if you walk through the streets of London you can't help but notice an incredibly high police presence. Is the hot weather causing emergencies, or are more people panicking and ringing emergency services for whatever reason; or maybe there are the usual number of bomb hoaxes rung through by cretins? I saw the police block off Wood Lane (to the BBC) the other day. That's got hoax written all over it. Wood Lane was shut off because a passenger on a bus outside Television Centre noticed an unattended package. Given that this happened just a few days after the bombings, would *you* be the one to say "oh not to worry, someone's probably just forgotten their lunch"? Also bear in mind that the BBC is considered a high-profile target for terrorists: on 7/7 there were police officers stationed outside every BBC building (on Home Office instructions, apparently), and even now the BBC is on a permanent heightened state of alert. Just stand in front of TV Centre for 5 minutes and watch the vehicles going in and you'll see that all cars and bags coming on to BBC premises are being thoroughly searched. Iain |
Emergency services gone crazy
There might well have been a noticeable increase in the number of
emergency services vehicles that you will see going to incidents on blue lights. The number of security alerts has gone up very substantially since the bombings -- people aren't willing to give unattended packages the benefit of the doubt (and quite rightly so). The problem is that these alerts need a lot of people to deal with them, especially when it comes to clearing people from streets and buildings. This, coupled with people being very aware of the emergency services around them, probably explains why people think there are more police around than there were before the attacks. |
Emergency services gone crazy
In article , Iain spamtrap@dee
psea.force9.co.uk writes Just stand in front of TV Centre for 5 minutes and watch the vehicles going in and you'll see that all cars and bags coming on to BBC premises are being thoroughly searched. Iain Surprised you were not interviewed. Standing outside a likely target for 5 minutes watching cars going in and out. Looks suspicious. Michael Moore was interviewed when he stood outside the Saudi Embassy (Consulate?) in USA. -- Nicholas David Richards - "Oł sont les neiges d'antan?" |
Emergency services gone crazy
In message , Phil Lepherd
writes Is it just me, or has the amount of emergency services using their sirens increased in the days since 7/7? Each and every time I set foot outside this week, the air has been split by about three emergency vehicles sreaming past. Hey! As I type this I can hear the shreik through the window! Or maybe I'm only noticing the racket now. I work near Aldgate and by 5 pm on that Thursday the sirens were beginning to get to most of us at work. It's like trying to carry on as usual in a war zone, and I would imagine most people in the City had the same experience. Now I just think we're all a bit over sensitive to sirens, but hopefully that will fade. I saw a lot of police cars charging along empty roads, sirens going like mad that afternoon. Was it necessary, does it help ? I think it's a bit soon to ask, but the use of sirens and their effect on the morale of the populace needs looking at IMHO. -- Edward Cowling London UK |
Emergency services gone crazy
I saw a lot of police cars charging along empty roads, sirens going like mad that afternoon. Was it necessary, does it help ? I think it's a bit soon to ask, but the use of sirens and their effect on the morale of the populace needs looking at IMHO. Unfortunatly, the police will be critisiced whatever they do. I'm an ex member of the emergency services and can assure you that blue lights and sirens are only used in genuine emergencies, although very often these emergencies turn out to be less urgent once you arrive there. I was a paramedic, if we got a call to, say, a collapse, we'd obviously use lights and sirens to get there. Once in attendence at the **** head trying to get a days sleep in a doorway somewhere, in hindsight the quick response was completely unnecessary, but going on the information given by the original 999 caller completely required. So, what do the police do? Not use sirens and drive cautiously to every call, wishing when they get there and find it is a genuine emergency they got there quicker? Or, respond to every call urgently, realising that a number of those calls will be completely false alarms? What happens if they are driving to a call without sirens and someone steps off a pavement in front of them. Will they get criticised for not using the siren? Personally, I used to turn the siren off if there was no traffic, and no obvious hazards ahead. A (very) few of my colleagues used to turn the siren on leaving the station, and off once they got to the scene. Each to their own. The end of the day, those few were probably taking the safest option. Anyone who complains about police cars whizzing about have got to ask themselves, if they were being attacked and call the police for help, would they want the police to attend urgently or not? The police officers wouldn't know if it was a genuine call until they arrived at you. Is it a hoax? Mates larking about? A domesitic row? Just because you phone up and say its genuine doesn't make it any different to any of the other calls they've been out to that day. Some urgent, some not. Some genuine, some not. All equally urgent to the emergency staff until they actually arrive on scene. Personally, I'd rather be criticised for making to much noise than taking too long to get to a call. |
Emergency services gone crazy
Iain wrote:
I don't know about increased siren use, but if you walk through the streets of London you can't help but notice an incredibly high police presence. There have been police on duty outside both my local stations all this week (Norbiton and New Malden). Yesterday morning, there were 3 officers at Norbiton! However, in a way this can be beneficial as an unattended bag was found in the back coach of my train to work one morning this week, and the fact there were officers on duty meant it could be checked and cleared within minites, rather than us all having to endure a lengthy delay and be late for work. I wonder how long this will be the case for, and where have all these extra police come from?? (I used to go weeks without seeing any officers on the street). Cheers Steve M |
Emergency services gone crazy
Steve M wrote on Sat, 16 Jul 2005
There have been police on duty outside both my local stations all this week (Norbiton and New Malden). Yesterday morning, there were 3 officers at Norbiton! However, in a way this can be beneficial as an unattended bag was found in the back coach of my train to work one morning this week, and the fact there were officers on duty meant it could be checked and cleared within minites, rather than us all having to endure a lengthy delay and be late for work. irony smiley So what special equipment did they have for checking it? Endoscope, robot, portable X-ray machine, ..... ? -- Iain Archer To email, please use Reply-To address |
Emergency services gone crazy
In message , Iain Archer
writes could be checked and cleared within minites, rather than us all having to endure a lengthy delay and be late for work. irony smiley So what special equipment did they have for checking it? Endoscope, robot, portable X-ray machine, ..... ? Probably the ever reliable "kick it and see if it goes boom" technique I've seen station staff use on the underground :-) -- Edward Cowling London UK |
Emergency services gone crazy
"terzal" wrote in message
oups.com... Personally, I used to turn the siren off if there was no traffic, and no obvious hazards ahead. A (very) few of my colleagues used to turn the siren on leaving the station, and off once they got to the scene. Each to their own. That's my complaint too. It's not the use of sirens, which are obviously essential in busy areas, but what happens here in Balham is that police cars tear along with sirens blaring at 3.00am or 4.00am on an absolutely deserted Balham High Road! In this weather, those of us that live on the main road and have our bedroom windows open can't help but be woken up. I have had a letter published in the local paper on this issue, to no avail. I reckon these sirens are just penis extensions for some kiddie-coppers. Ian |
Emergency services gone crazy
Iain Archer wrote:
Steve M wrote on Sat, 16 Jul 2005 There have been police on duty outside both my local stations all this week (Norbiton and New Malden). Yesterday morning, there were 3 officers at Norbiton! However, in a way this can be beneficial as an unattended bag was found in the back coach of my train to work one morning this week, and the fact there were officers on duty meant it could be checked and cleared within minites, rather than us all having to endure a lengthy delay and be late for work. irony smiley So what special equipment did they have for checking it? Endoscope, robot, portable X-ray machine, ..... ? As another poster has suggested, I think he just had a look inside, decided it was safe, and off we went. If the policeman hadn't already been on the station, I presume the train would have remained there until one arrived? Passengers seemed to be in two distinct groups: "Argh, let's get the hell out of here" and "FFS how long will this take?". Cheers, Steve M |
Emergency services gone crazy
"Ian F." wrote in message
... "terzal" wrote in message oups.com... Personally, I used to turn the siren off if there was no traffic, and no obvious hazards ahead. A (very) few of my colleagues used to turn the siren on leaving the station, and off once they got to the scene. Each to their own. That's my complaint too. It's not the use of sirens, which are obviously essential in busy areas, but what happens here in Balham is that police cars tear along with sirens blaring at 3.00am or 4.00am on an absolutely deserted Balham High Road! In this weather, those of us that live on the main road and have our bedroom windows open can't help but be woken up. Are there no rules/guidance for use of sirens on emergency vehicles at a time of night when it would be illegal for other motorists to use their horns? I would expect the guidance to be: turn the siren off except when you are approaching a junction where traffic has priority over you or when there's an obvious hazard like a bunch of cars in front of you or people who look as if they're about to cross the road in front of you. I've noticed that ambulances switch between a laid-back slow wail when they are in light traffic and a much more urgent, insistent, faster whooping when they are approaching heavier traffic. I've also seen many ambulances and fire engines with just their blue lights on and no sirens, especially on sparsely-populated motorways. So it looks as if they are considerate. Police cars seem to be the worst offenders for leaving their sirens going full time. The converse is true: not using a siren when it's needed. One evening I was going home from work at dusk and had green lights approaching a set of traffic lights. Suddenly, from my right, a police car shot across from the right about 6 feet in front of me. Luckily I'd slowed down a bit from the 60 at which I'd been approaching because I thought the lights had been at green for a long time and might change soon. The police car was not using his siren: my fleeting impression was of just a single flash of his blue light as he passed my field of vision. I know that police cars are allowed to go though red lights, but they normally sound their siren on the approach and to take extra care if traffic that has priority over them doesn't have clear sight of them approaching and so will have no advance warning. I've always wondered what the law is about ordinary cars going through red lights to let an emergency vehicle behind get through. I was once in this situation: I was at the head of a queue of cars at traffic lights when a fire engine came up on my offside but was blocked from going the wrong way through the junction because some pillock had stopped on a box junction. So I thought: act first, defend my actions afterwards - I edged forwards, flashing my lights and hooting my horn to warn other traffic what I was doing and pulled at right angles to the direction I'd been going in to make room for the fire engine. I noticed one of the passengers in the fire engine stuck his arm out of the window and gave me a "thank you" wave for applying a bit of common sense. However I've also seen cars waiting dutifully at red lights with emergency vehicles stuck behind them for ages, probably because they are afraid of being penalised for going through a red light. |
Emergency services gone crazy
On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 17:46:32 +0100, "Martin Underwood"
wrote: Are there no rules/guidance for use of sirens on emergency vehicles at a time of night when it would be illegal for other motorists to use their horns? My flatmate reckons they shouldn't use them after 10pm, or something. -- Nick Cooper [Carefully remove the detonators from my e-mail address to reply!] The London Underground at War: http://www.cwgcuser.org.uk/personal/...ra/lu/tuaw.htm 625-Online - classic British television: http://www.625.org.uk 'Things to Come' - An Incomplete Classic: http://www.thingstocome.org.uk |
Emergency services gone crazy
I haven't got my old manual to hand at the moment to look up the
precise wording of the instructions. The main exemptions from the Road Traffic Act that emergency vehicles can claim are to treat red traffic lights as give way signs, and to exceed the speed limit. Its worded something like where to obey them would hinder the vehicle in its duties. I don't think there is any actual mention of the use of lights and sirens as such, apart from a secondary exemption is the ability to use audible warnings at night. Individual services (and even preferences from one instructor to another) will have their own guidelines. The bottom line is, if you are claiming any exemption (eg speeding), then you could end up in court explaining both the reason why ("I was attending an emergency call"), and what means you were using to warn the public ("I had the blue lights and sirens on"). So although having the siren turned off, as you take out a pedestrian who steps out in front of you, wouldn't be in breach of any law as such, it probably would count towards your dangerous driving sentence. Consequently, any time the siren is turned off while attending an emergency call, the driver is to some extent putting other road users and his driving licence at risk. People will always come from nowhere. There will always be pedestrians who step off the kerb without looking and people who suddenly pull out of side turnings without looking. There has to be an element of common sense and as I said I and nearly all of my colleagues tended to turn the siren off if there was no visable hazard. But that was the risk we took. I wouldn't criticise anyone for taking the other option and leaving the siren on from station to scene. You only need a kid to run out from a shop across the road and the first question we'd be asked was whether the siren was turned on. I'm not at all taking issue with your post (you weren't being confrontational at all!) but any potential hazard is a hazard whether obvious or not. People by the side of the road might step out whether they look like they might or not, and unless they are well away from kerb would really need the siren to be sounded. Any junction whatever the priority is also to some extent a hazard. There has to be some common sense, but ultimately as I said any time the siren is turned off there is a risk (probably to the drivers licence and career more than to the public - I'm well aware sirens can also be disorienting to the public at times). I am sure having the siren turned off would always count against you in court. As for the vehicles with the sirens off when they should more obviously be turned on, there is a need for silent approach sometimes, but obviously extra care must be taken. Certainly from a paramedics point of view, with a patient on board we would try to keep the siren use to a minimum (although taking a patient in with blue lights going is relatively rare anyway) because of the stress to a conscious patient. I'm not trying to excuse bad driving on the part of emergency staff, obviously as in any job some people are more competent than others, but I do feel that the majority (not all) of the criticism they get is completely unjustified. As for how you stand going through a red light to make way for a fire engine, I dunno! I like to think that it would be taking into account..... |
Emergency services gone crazy
They can use them any time they like..
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Emergency services gone crazy
Incidentally, we once had a complaint from some boring f*cker that we
always turned the siren on outside his house as we went past. Which we genuinely didn't.....until we got the complaint and found out his address...... |
Emergency services gone crazy
On 16 Jul 2005 10:33:59 -0700, terzal wrote:
They can use them any time they like.. Who? What? -- http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p10862735.html (a train on the Hythe Pier Railway, Hampshire in 1998) |
Emergency services gone crazy
It was a dark and stormy night when Martin Underwood
wrote in article 42d939eb$0$21993$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp- reader02.plus.net... The converse is true: not using a siren when it's needed. One evening I was going home from work at dusk and had green lights approaching a set of traffic lights. Suddenly, from my right, a police car shot across from the right about 6 feet in front of me. Luckily I'd slowed down a bit from the 60 at which I'd been approaching because I thought the lights had been at green for a long time and might change soon. The police car was not using his siren: my fleeting impression was of just a single flash of his blue light as he passed my field of vision. I know that police cars are allowed to go though red lights, but they normally sound their siren on the approach and to take extra care if traffic that has priority over them doesn't have clear sight of them approaching and so will have no advance warning. Same happened to me on my way home to London near Farnham, Hants; police car shot out across a light-controlled crossroads on the A31 at a good 60mph, while I was crossing under a green light at a similar speed, and missed me by a hairsbreadth. It would have been a spectacular smash if I'd been a second or two further on. I must admit my initial response (apart from pulling over to get my composure back) was to wonder whether, since there was no other traffic about at all, the driver (had he survived) would have been honest and admitted he had no siren going. (Or are these things logged like speed on a tachograph?) -- "All vampires suck, but not all who suck are vampires." (--B.J.Kuehl) :::Grebbsy :::::::lemon curry?::: |
Emergency services gone crazy
Er, emergency people...you know, police and people...
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Emergency services gone crazy
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Emergency services gone crazy
On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 21:20:40 +0100, Grebbsy McLaren
wrote: [snip] Same happened to me on my way home to London near Farnham, Hants; police car shot out across a light-controlled crossroads on the A31 at a good 60mph, while I was crossing under a green light at a similar speed, and missed me by a hairsbreadth. It would have been a spectacular smash if I'd been a second or two further on. [snip] Farnham is in Surrey. Of that stretch of the A31 [within Farnham] there are two sets of traffic lights, both junctions having excellent all round visability to spot vehicles "jumping the red". Would suggest that you were either driving without due care and attention not to observe pontential danger or the near miss was more like a mile. You are now a member of the tall story club. DCB |
Emergency services gone crazy
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Emergency services gone crazy
On 16 Jul 2005 14:54:35 -0700, "terzal" wrote:
Er, emergency people...you know, police and people... What are you talking about? Try quoting the text you are replying to. |
Emergency services gone crazy
On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 01:09:57 +0100, Grebbsy McLaren
wrote: It was a dark and stormy night when David Bradley wrote in article cd3jd1p0tjhvpdrmor5no07vjbugl ... On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 21:20:40 +0100, Grebbsy McLaren wrote: [snip] Same happened to me on my way home to London near Farnham, Hants; police car shot out across a light-controlled crossroads on the A31 at a good 60mph, while I was crossing under a green light at a similar speed, and missed me by a hairsbreadth. It would have been a spectacular smash if I'd been a second or two further on. [snip] Farnham is in Surrey. Of that stretch of the A31 [within Farnham] there are two sets of traffic lights, both junctions having excellent all round visability to spot vehicles "jumping the red". Would suggest that you were either driving without due care and attention not to observe pontential danger or the near miss was more like a mile. You are now a member of the tall story club. I stand corrected regarding the county. As for the rest, I should point out that it was past midnight and pitch black. Surely any police vehicle going wrong-road across a major junction (I think it would have been the A287, but not being local can't swear to it) should use all warning precautions in these circumstances? Grebbsy OK then we have the right geographical place, so no confusion there. Both sets of traffic lights on this stretch of road have excellent street lighting, so being in the small hours of the morning would still give decent visability. The A287 junction has had in the past some horific collusions due to drivers "tail ending" a green sequence which was really red as they past the stop line. A couple of years ago, extensive remodelling of the junction was made, together with traffic light resequencing. This should have made it considerably safer junction. As a know "black spot", and with the Police Station just around the corner, I find it remarkable that a police vehicle on an emergency call would not have taken appropriate precautions while crossing this particular junction. However your recollections of the event are being "pitch black", which it would not have been, so how can we all be sure that the events were as you previously described? Your membrship of the tall story club will be re-instated if no satasfactory response appears. DCB |
Emergency services gone crazy
What are you talking about? Try quoting the text you are replying to. The text immediately above mine. |
Emergency services gone crazy
They can use them any time they like.. Yes, but that is not consistent with what the poster you were replying to said: He said that is flat mate said they couldn't use them after 10pm. I replied they can use them any time they like. How is that not consistent? |
Emergency services gone crazy
It was a dark and stormy night when David Bradley
wrote in article clqjd190iectc8j1m7i7iqcdc6v2f ... Your membrship of the tall story club will be re-instated if no satasfactory response appears. Since I can't be bothered to continue this debate, you may feel free to act as you please. Grebbsy -- "All vampires suck, but not all who suck are vampires." (--B.J.Kuehl) :::Grebbsy :::::::lemon curry?::: |
Emergency services gone crazy
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Emergency services gone crazy
On 17 Jul 2005 01:00:03 -0700, "terzal" wrote:
What are you talking about? Try quoting the text you are replying to. The text immediately above mine. [quoting amended to be accurate] There was no text immediately above yours... If you're going to use Google Groups Beta, learn to quote correctly. [Hint: "Reply" to the article you're replying to; don't just use the text window at the bottom of the thread.] -- James Farrar September's coming soon |
Emergency services gone crazy
He said that is flat mate said they couldn't use them after 10pm. I
replied they can use them any time they like. How is that not consistent? He didn't say that. Read it again. He said "shouldn't", not "couldn't". That's a significant difference. No, thats being pedantic. In any case, I have never been aware of any law, instruction, recommendation, guideline, or anything else to say that sirens cannot or should not or any other wording you would like to use, be used after any particular time. |
Emergency services gone crazy
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Emergency services gone crazy
In article ,
Colin Rosenstiel wrote: I thought there was an injunction against horn use after a certain time. 10:30 pm sounds familiar. Rule 92 in the highway code (http://www.highway-code.gov.uk/07.htm#92) says that you shouldn't use your horn between 11:30pm and 7am (with some sensible exceptions and caveats) & refers to the Road Vehicles (Construction & Use) Regulations 1986. I can't be bothered to see if those regulations apply equally to police sirens, although personally I doubt it. -- Mike Bristow - really a very good driver |
Emergency services gone crazy
I thought there was an injunction against horn use after a certain
time. 10:30 pm sounds familiar. -- Colin Rosenstiel Have just found a site with a list of exemptions applying to emergency vehicles. The use of audible warnings at night is one exception from the Road Traffic Act.. http://www.bespokedrivertraining.co....egislation.htm |
Emergency services gone crazy
On 16 Jul 2005 03:00:58 -0700, "terzal" said:
Anyone who complains about police cars whizzing about have got to ask themselves, if they were being attacked and call the police for help, would they want the police to attend urgently or not? Last time I called the police because someone was being attacked it took them over an hour to show up. Mind you, the victim was black so I suppose the police didn't think that was urgent. -- David Cantrell | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david |
Emergency services gone crazy
In article , David Cantrell
writes On 16 Jul 2005 03:00:58 -0700, "terzal" said: Anyone who complains about police cars whizzing about have got to ask themselves, if they were being attacked and call the police for help, would they want the police to attend urgently or not? Last time I called the police because someone was being attacked it took them over an hour to show up. Mind you, the victim was black so I suppose the police didn't think that was urgent. Last time I called them because someone was being attacked, they, the police, never turned up. It took the ambulance 45 minutes to arrive, the victim could have died choking on his own blood. A gang of youths had been using the poor guy's head as a football and the people who arrived on the scene just before me had chased off the gang. A prompt response might have enabled the police to pick up the gang involved immediately. The man had a broken jaw. To add insult to injury, when they eventually put up yellow witness request boards they got the wrong stretch of road and the wrong time of day. Just to even up the balance, this guy was white, and the gang were kids of all colours. -- Nicholas David Richards - "Oł sont les neiges d'antan?" |
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