Hearsay
 

I hear that the H&C could be 2 months before it is back in order (worst
case because they don't know the tunnel status until the police vacate
site and Piccadily is anything up to 8 months if the tunnel needs a
rebuild - comments?
--
John Alexander,

Remove NOSPAM if replying by e-mail

Hearsay
 

"John" wrote in message
...
I hear that the H&C could be 2 months before it is back in order (worst
case because they don't know the tunnel status until the police vacate
site and Piccadily is anything up to 8 months if the tunnel needs a
rebuild - comments?
--
John Alexander,

Remove NOSPAM if replying by e-mail

Well the TfL press release at
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-cent...t.asp?prID=428
says they expect to have a full service running on the Circle/H&C five days
after the police have finished their investigations. I don't think they
would say that unless they were confident there had been no major structural
damage.

Peter Smyth

Hearsay
 

In article ,
"Peter Smyth" wrote:

Well the TfL press release at
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-cent...ases-content.a
sp?prID=428
says they expect to have a full service running on the Circle/H&C five days
after the police have finished their investigations. I don't think they
would say that unless they were confident there had been no major structural
damage.

If the reports today (that the explosive was mostly Acetone Peroxide) are
correct, then it would be unlikely given the damage to the train that
any serious damage was done to the tunnel.

--
http://www.election.demon.co.uk
"We can also agree that Saddam Hussein most certainly has chemical and biolog-
ical weapons and is working towards a nuclear capability. The dossier contains
confirmation of information that we either knew or most certainly should have
been willing to assume." - Menzies Campbell, 24th September 2002.

Hearsay
 

In article ,
(David Boothroyd) wrote:

In article ,
"Peter Smyth" wrote:

Well the TfL press release at

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-cent...s-releases-con
tent.asp?prID=428
says they expect to have a full service running on the Circle/H&C
five days after the police have finished their investigations. I
don't think they would say that unless they were confident there had
been no major structural damage.

If the reports today (that the explosive was mostly Acetone Peroxide)
are correct, then it would be unlikely given the damage to the train
that any serious damage was done to the tunnel.

Since the rest of us aren't the explosive experts that you are, David,
perhaps you can explain that remark?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Hearsay
 

"Colin Rosenstiel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
(David Boothroyd) wrote:

In article ,
"Peter Smyth" wrote:

Well the TfL press release at

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-cent...s-releases-con
tent.asp?prID=428
says they expect to have a full service running on the Circle/H&C
five days after the police have finished their investigations. I
don't think they would say that unless they were confident there had
been no major structural damage.

If the reports today (that the explosive was mostly Acetone Peroxide)
are correct, then it would be unlikely given the damage to the train
that any serious damage was done to the tunnel.

Since the rest of us aren't the explosive experts that you are, David,
perhaps you can explain that remark?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetone_peroxide

Hearsay
 

In message , at
01:25:23 on Fri, 15 Jul 2005, Nicola Redwood
remarked:
If the reports today (that the explosive was mostly Acetone Peroxide)
are correct, then it would be unlikely given the damage to the train
that any serious damage was done to the tunnel.

Since the rest of us aren't the explosive experts that you are, David,
perhaps you can explain that remark?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetone_peroxide

That explains the chemistry, but says little about what type of damage
it might cause, and why. There were some early reports that the type of
explosive could be guessed from the way that victims' clothes were
"blown off" and other contemporary descriptions of the sound and light
accompanying the blasts. Perhaps these are what were being referred to?
--
Roland Perry

Hearsay
 

A bit worrying that I have both main ingredients, in very small
quantities, at home. Acetone is a useful solvent for fibre glass resin
and hydrogen peroxide is an antisceptic. Looks as though I might be
using alternatives from now on.

Kevin

Hearsay
 

On Fri, 15 Jul 2005 01:07 +0100 (BST), (Colin
Rosenstiel) wrote:

In article ,
(David Boothroyd) wrote:

In article ,
"Peter Smyth" wrote:

Well the TfL press release at

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-cent...s-releases-con
tent.asp?prID=428
says they expect to have a full service running on the Circle/H&C
five days after the police have finished their investigations. I
don't think they would say that unless they were confident there had
been no major structural damage.

If the reports today (that the explosive was mostly Acetone Peroxide)
are correct, then it would be unlikely given the damage to the train
that any serious damage was done to the tunnel.

Since the rest of us aren't the explosive experts that you are, David,
perhaps you can explain that remark?

I suspect he means what I've already thought, i.e. that the damage to
the heavier parts of the subsurface trains is fairly limited, menaing
that the blast furthur out would have been sufficient to significantly
damage the tunnel.
--
Nick Cooper

[Carefully remove the detonators from my e-mail address to reply!]

The London Underground at War:
http://www.cwgcuser.org.uk/personal/...ra/lu/tuaw.htm
625-Online - classic British television:
http://www.625.org.uk
'Things to Come' - An Incomplete Classic:
http://www.thingstocome.org.uk

Hearsay
 

A bit worrying that I have both main ingredients, in very small
quantities, at home. Acetone is a useful solvent for fibre glass resin
and hydrogen peroxide is an antisceptic. Looks as though I might be
using alternatives from now on.

Lots of things are flammable and explosive if converted to a fine
spray. Petrol can be used as an explosive and so can flour! Its not
worth worrying about.

B2003

Hearsay
 

In message .com, at
02:22:32 on Fri, 15 Jul 2005, Boltar remarked:
A bit worrying that I have both main ingredients, in very small
quantities, at home. Acetone is a useful solvent for fibre glass resin
and hydrogen peroxide is an antisceptic. Looks as though I might be
using alternatives from now on.

Lots of things are flammable and explosive if converted to a fine
spray. Petrol can be used as an explosive and so can flour! Its not
worth worrying about.

I can see you are (rightly) sceptical. But the OP has some antisceptic,
it seems.
--
Roland Perry

Hearsay
 

"Boltar" wrote in message
oups.com...

Lots of things are flammable and explosive
if converted to a fine spray.

I was taught at school that pretty much anything can be an explosive if
powdered finely enough and mixed with air. Custard powder and paint are
particularly good at demolishing the factories where they are made.

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

Hearsay
 

Hearsay
 

Investigations have shown no structural damage to either Circle/H&S
roof/sidewalls. There is supeficial damage to cabling and the immediate
areas but this will not take too long to fix. The Picc is a different
story. However its possible the Vic line will be resume stopping at
Kings Cross later today. This will allow interchange with Met and
mainline/Thameslink. Northern still being assesed.
Just when i was starting to enjoy the summer walk from Euston.....

Hearsay
 

In article . com,
(downunder) wrote:

Investigations have shown no structural damage to either Circle/H&S
roof/sidewalls. There is supeficial damage to cabling and the immediate
areas but this will not take too long to fix. The Picc is a different
story. However its possible the Vic line will be resume stopping at
Kings Cross later today. This will allow interchange with Met and
mainline/Thameslink. Northern still being assesed.
Just when i was starting to enjoy the summer walk from Euston.....

No sign of the Picc/Northern/Victoria ticket office outside the mainline
station re-opening when I got the 15:45 to Cambridge this afternoon.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Hearsay
 

On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 23:33:11 +0100, John wrote:

I hear that the H&C could be 2 months before it is back in order (worst
case because they don't know the tunnel status until the police vacate
site and Piccadily is anything up to 8 months if the tunnel needs a
rebuild - comments?

None of what you have said aligns with anything already published by TfL
/ LUL. I have heard no mention whatsoever of the timescales you are
talking about and I would have expected to have done so if we had an 8
month closure to deal with.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Hearsay
 

The Piccadilly line tunnels have not suffered serious damage contray to
some reports that claimed they were structually unsound. However the
scene on this line is one of carnage and has been described as pretty
horendous.

You are looking at the Piccadilly line being closed for while but for
it to be closed eight months would be highly unlikely, though it is
unlikely to be re-open in the near future.

In terms of Kings Cross, the Northern line platforms may remain closed
for Safety reason especially as the main access is via the Piccadilly
line escalators. After the fire at Kings Cross in 1987 the Northern
line platforms remained closed for a further eighteen months for safety
reasons as it was felt too dangerous to direct everyone down the
Victoria line platforms.


Martin

Martin
Paul Corfield wrote:
On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 23:33:11 +0100, John wrote:

I hear that the H&C could be 2 months before it is back in order (worst
case because they don't know the tunnel status until the police vacate
site and Piccadily is anything up to 8 months if the tunnel needs a
rebuild - comments?

None of what you have said aligns with anything already published by TfL
/ LUL. I have heard no mention whatsoever of the timescales you are
talking about and I would have expected to have done so if we had an 8
month closure to deal with.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Hearsay
 

downunder wrote:
Investigations have shown no structural damage to either Circle/H&S
roof/sidewalls. There is supeficial damage to cabling and the immediate
areas but this will not take too long to fix. The Picc is a different
story. However its possible the Vic line will be resume stopping at
Kings Cross later today. This will allow interchange with Met and
mainline/Thameslink. Northern still being assesed.

What has prevented the Vic line opening so far? Obviously there is still
investigation and recovery work going on in the picc line section, but
what is it that passengers from the vic line need to be shielded from?

Hearsay
 

"MartyJ" wrote in message
oups.com...
The Piccadilly line tunnels have not suffered serious damage contray to
some reports that claimed they were structually unsound. However the
scene on this line is one of carnage and has been described as pretty
horendous.

You are looking at the Piccadilly line being closed for while but for
it to be closed eight months would be highly unlikely, though it is
unlikely to be re-open in the near future.

In terms of Kings Cross, the Northern line platforms may remain closed
for Safety reason especially as the main access is via the Piccadilly
line escalators. After the fire at Kings Cross in 1987 the Northern
line platforms remained closed for a further eighteen months for safety
reasons as it was felt too dangerous to direct everyone down the
Victoria line platforms.


Martin

Martin
Paul Corfield wrote:
On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 23:33:11 +0100, John wrote:

I hear that the H&C could be 2 months before it is back in order (worst
case because they don't know the tunnel status until the police vacate
site and Piccadily is anything up to 8 months if the tunnel needs a
rebuild - comments?

None of what you have said aligns with anything already published by TfL
/ LUL. I have heard no mention whatsoever of the timescales you are
talking about and I would have expected to have done so if we had an 8
month closure to deal with.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!


From what I heard on the news tonight, the cabling that runs through the
tunnels is a bit of a problem, as there are very few diagrams /
documentation on it. I should imagine a good team of electrical engineers
working things out in time.

BTW I do know that LU, Tube Lines etc. have a lot of the original
Underground diagrams, maps etc. on Altris (document management and imaging
system) - the originals of some of this paperwork are at the LT Museum. I
haven't seen any of it, but I used to work in IT at Tube Lines

Hearsay
 

"Stuart" wrote in message
.uk...
downunder wrote:
Investigations have shown no structural damage to either Circle/H&S
roof/sidewalls. There is supeficial damage to cabling and the immediate
areas but this will not take too long to fix. The Picc is a different
story. However its possible the Vic line will be resume stopping at
Kings Cross later today. This will allow interchange with Met and
mainline/Thameslink. Northern still being assesed.

What has prevented the Vic line opening so far? Obviously there is still
investigation and recovery work going on in the picc line section, but
what is it that passengers from the vic line need to be shielded from?

The whole area was cosidered a scene of crime and the police went through it
with a very fine tooth comb! They were swabbing the platform for anything -
no idea what- at one stage. There is the possibility the men may have gone
down to the Vic platform perhaps???

It opened at about 15:45. Its gunna be busy on Monday - and we have had a
bad week.......

Mal

Hearsay
 

In article .com,
wrote:

A bit worrying that I have both main ingredients, in very small
quantities, at home. Acetone is a useful solvent for fibre glass resin
and hydrogen peroxide is an antisceptic. Looks as though I might be
using alternatives from now on.

In order to make Acetone peroxide you also need a mineral acid (to
act as a catalyst) and keep the mixture cool to stop unstable
products forming. Also helps if the Peroxide is in industrial strength
(at least 20 volume), as you don't get much product otherwise.

Not that I want to encourage you to do this. Acetone peroxide is
almost as unstable a high explosive as Nitrogen triiodide.

--
http://www.election.demon.co.uk
"We can also agree that Saddam Hussein most certainly has chemical and biolog-
ical weapons and is working towards a nuclear capability. The dossier contains
confirmation of information that we either knew or most certainly should have
been willing to assume." - Menzies Campbell, 24th September 2002.

Hearsay
 

In article ,
(Nick Cooper) wrote:
On Fri, 15 Jul 2005 01:07 +0100 (BST), (Colin
Rosenstiel) wrote:
In article ,
(David Boothroyd) wrote:

If the reports today (that the explosive was mostly Acetone Peroxide)
are correct, then it would be unlikely given the damage to the train
that any serious damage was done to the tunnel.

Since the rest of us aren't the explosive experts that you are, David,
perhaps you can explain that remark?

I suspect he means what I've already thought, i.e. that the damage to
the heavier parts of the subsurface trains is fairly limited, menaing
that the blast furthur out would have been sufficient to significantly
damage the tunnel.

It's difficult to make a really large bomb with Acetone peroxide
because it is so unstable. Having a professional chemist may mean
that the reaction product has been stabilised by mixing with other
similar but less friction-sensitive chemicals, but it's still not
a compound to trust.

--
http://www.election.demon.co.uk
"We can also agree that Saddam Hussein most certainly has chemical and biolog-
ical weapons and is working towards a nuclear capability. The dossier contains
confirmation of information that we either knew or most certainly should have
been willing to assume." - Menzies Campbell, 24th September 2002.

Hearsay
 

In article ,
(Malcolm Pinnell) wrote:

[King's Cross Victoria Line]
It opened at about 15:45. Its gunna be busy on Monday - and we have had
a bad week.......

Ah, that explains my confusion. I caught the 15:45 to Cambridge, arriving
at King's Cross by bicycle about 5 or 6 minutes before it left, so a few
minutes before the Victoria Line re-opened, by the sound of it.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Hearsay
 

) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

A bit worrying that I have both main ingredients, in very small
quantities, at home. Acetone is a useful solvent for fibre glass resin
and hydrogen peroxide is an antisceptic.

And I've been using some sulphuric acid drain cleaner this afternoon...

I can see the black helicopters closing on our little cell already...

Hearsay
 

In article ,
(Colin Rosenstiel) wrote:

In article ,
(Malcolm Pinnell) wrote:

[King's Cross Victoria Line]
It opened at about 15:45. Its gunna be busy on Monday - and we have
had a bad week.......

Ah, that explains my confusion. I caught the 15:45 to Cambridge,
arriving at King's Cross by bicycle about 5 or 6 minutes before it
left, so a few minutes before the Victoria Line re-opened, by the sound
of it.

I noticed the ticket office outside the mainline concourse was open again
today.

--
Colin Rosenstiel