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How bendy is a bendy bus?
Is it bendy enough to make the left turn from New Oxford Street into
Charing Cross Road, and the turns between Charing Cross Road and Shaftesbury Avenue? Oh, and the left turn into Piccadilly too? I ask as the 38 converts to bendy operation soon, and I'll be interested to see how easily (or not) they can make those movements... -- Dave Arquati Imperial College, SW7 www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London |
How bendy is a bendy bus?
Well, those running on the 507 can only negotiate the sharp left turn
from Waterloo Road into Sandell Street (near Waterloo East) by mounting the pavement and throwing the passengers around like spinning tops. Marc. |
How bendy is a bendy bus?
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How bendy is a bendy bus?
Sorry, I meant 521, not 507!
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How bendy is a bendy bus?
I have seen exactly this - on Wednesday 19th there were a number of
bendy-buses without destination blinds that seemed to be following the 38's route. Tom Colin Rosenstiel wrote: In article , (Dave Arquati) wrote: Is it bendy enough to make the left turn from New Oxford Street into Charing Cross Road, and the turns between Charing Cross Road and Shaftesbury Avenue? Oh, and the left turn into Piccadilly too? I ask as the 38 converts to bendy operation soon, and I'll be interested to see how easily (or not) they can make those movements... You didn't mention the problems bendies on the 73 already have getting into New Oxford Street from Bloomsbury Street. I must say I'm surprised not to have seen a bendy on trials on the 38 route yet. -- Colin Rosenstiel |
How bendy is a bendy bus?
On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 14:22:28 +0100, Dave Arquati wrote:
Is it bendy enough to make the left turn from New Oxford Street into Charing Cross Road, and the turns between Charing Cross Road and Shaftesbury Avenue? Oh, and the left turn into Piccadilly too? I have seen a route 25 bendy turn round under Centre point so it managed the first of your turns. On another group it has been confirmed that a bendies and other long buses and coaches can successfully turn into the Piccadilly Bus Lane. I ask as the 38 converts to bendy operation soon, and I'll be interested to see how easily (or not) they can make those movements... There are plenty of artics around and about training over the 38 route corridor and I've not heard of one jamming up central London because it couldn't make a turn. All routes are carefully surveyed and trial vehicles are used early on to test if the proposed vehicle is suitable. -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
How bendy is a bendy bus?
The northbound 436 regularly rounds a rather narrow bend at Vauxhall
which is about 110?. -- http://www.election.demon.co.uk "We can also agree that Saddam Hussein most certainly has chemical and biolog- ical weapons and is working towards a nuclear capability. The dossier contains confirmation of information that we either knew or most certainly should have been willing to assume." - Menzies Campbell, 24th September 2002. |
How bendy is a bendy bus?
"Paul Corfield" wrote in message ... On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 14:22:28 +0100, Dave Arquati wrote: Is it bendy enough to make the left turn from New Oxford Street into Charing Cross Road, and the turns between Charing Cross Road and Shaftesbury Avenue? Oh, and the left turn into Piccadilly too? I have seen a route 25 bendy turn round under Centre point so it managed the first of your turns. On another group it has been confirmed that a bendies and other long buses and coaches can successfully turn into the Piccadilly Bus Lane. I ask as the 38 converts to bendy operation soon, and I'll be interested to see how easily (or not) they can make those movements... I saw what appeared to be a lost 73 bendy at turning right from Charing Cross Road into Shaftesbury Avenue this very lunchtime (Some road closures around about the TCR area causing the usual mayhem!). On the way eastbound through Shaftesbury Avenue, the RML I was on (enjoying one last ride to Museum Street from Victoria, it just won't be the same now) got stuck in a snarl up with a London General WVL and an Arriva route 19 DW type, the latter was having some form of mechanical trouble by the look of it and everything ground to a halt in the first part of Shaftesbury Avenue just off Piccadilly. The RML and another along with the slightly impatient driver of the London General WVL all managed to pull out and round with no problem, however it is patently obvious that as soon as the burning bendies start running three at a time though there with their additional length, all hell is going to break loose very slowly! To add insult to injury, the 38's RM's have received "cheery" 'Route 38 gets better from every angle' posters same as the Route 73 ones they did (Who writes this propagandist cobblers?!?). I saw at least one get torn down by an elderly passenger clearly disgusted at the changeover, and who can blame him! Regards John M Upton My Fotopic Collections: South Central/Southern, Model Railway & Other Rail Pictures: http://gallery39764.fotopic.net/ Bus Pics: http://gallery42239.fotopic.net/ |
How bendy is a bendy bus?
In article , (Dave
Arquati) wrote: Tom Page wrote: Colin Rosenstiel wrote: In article , (Dave Arquati) wrote: Is it bendy enough to make the left turn from New Oxford Street into Charing Cross Road, and the turns between Charing Cross Road and Shaftesbury Avenue? Oh, and the left turn into Piccadilly too? I ask as the 38 converts to bendy operation soon, and I'll be interested to see how easily (or not) they can make those movements... You didn't mention the problems bendies on the 73 already have getting into New Oxford Street from Bloomsbury Street. I must say I'm surprised not to have seen a bendy on trials on the 38 route yet. I have seen exactly this - on Wednesday 19th there were a number of bendy-buses without destination blinds that seemed to be following the 38's route. Ah! Thanks. Missed them. What sort of time of day? I do remember seeing bendy trials on the 73. Did you see them squish anyone at St Giles' / Cambridge / Piccadilly Circuses? Incidentally, I'm not dead set against bendy buses, but I do wonder about the practicalities of running them on some of the "tighter" routes. Isn't the point on the 38 to replace large numbers of Routemasters with a lot fewer bendies, as on the 73? -- Colin Rosenstiel |
How bendy is a bendy bus?
In article , David
Boothroyd writes The northbound 436 regularly rounds a rather narrow bend at Vauxhall which is about 110?. When the 207 went bendy, it had to be terminated at the Hayes bypass because it couldn't get into Uxbridge. -- Thoss |
How bendy is a bendy bus?
"thoss" wrote in message ... In article , David Boothroyd writes The northbound 436 regularly rounds a rather narrow bend at Vauxhall which is about 110?. When the 207 went bendy, it had to be terminated at the Hayes bypass because it couldn't get into Uxbridge. -- Thoss That and the fact that passenger numbers wouldn't justify their use on the western section of the route |
How bendy is a bendy bus?
In message , Paul Corfield
writes On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 14:22:28 +0100, Dave Arquati wrote: Is it bendy enough to make the left turn from New Oxford Street into Charing Cross Road, and the turns between Charing Cross Road and Shaftesbury Avenue? Oh, and the left turn into Piccadilly too? I have seen a route 25 bendy turn round under Centre point so it managed the first of your turns. And I would have thought that the Charing + Road / Shaftesbury Avenue one would have been the easier of the two. -- Ian Jelf, MITG Birmingham, UK Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk |
How bendy is a bendy bus?
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 20:28:11 +0100, Ian Jelf
wrote: In message , Paul Corfield writes On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 14:22:28 +0100, Dave Arquati wrote: Is it bendy enough to make the left turn from New Oxford Street into Charing Cross Road, and the turns between Charing Cross Road and Shaftesbury Avenue? Oh, and the left turn into Piccadilly too? I have seen a route 25 bendy turn round under Centre point so it managed the first of your turns. And I would have thought that the Charing + Road / Shaftesbury Avenue one would have been the easier of the two. It's tighter than it looks but the real issue is that both roads heading in either direction can be full of traffic thus stopping a bus making the manoeuvre properly, leaving them blocking the junction. It's bad enough with RMs, worse with LFDDs and I dread to think what will happen next week with bendies. The other issue at this junction is that it is a struggle for southbound 24, 29 and 176s to squeeze past anything turning right into Shaftesbury Av at Cambridge Circus. With a 18m bendy bus slightly out of place nothing will move for ages. You can wait a fair few minutes at Leicester Square waiting for a s/b bus to get past Cambridge Circus given the ludicrously short phasing for buses. This will get much worse, in my view, with bendies on the 38 and as for when the 29 goes over - I think I shall abandon using the 24 as I can see 29s taking over 15 minutes to get through the multiple sets of lights near Trafalgar Square. It will certainly be possible for a bendy bus to straddle at least one junction and two sets of lights just before St Martins in the Fields. -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
How bendy is a bendy bus?
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How bendy is a bendy bus?
"Dave Arquati" wrote in message
... Is it bendy enough to make the left turn from New Oxford Street into Charing Cross Road, and the turns between Charing Cross Road and Shaftesbury Avenue? Oh, and the left turn into Piccadilly too? I ask as the 38 converts to bendy operation soon, and I'll be interested to see how easily (or not) they can make those movements... Could be completely unrelated, but making an assumption from the appearance of the dented panels on the rear section of BV05 VFH that I saw a couple of days ago by Centrepoint, I'd say possibly not that well... |
How bendy is a bendy bus?
"Dave Arquati" wrote in message ... Is it bendy enough to make the left turn from New Oxford Street into Charing Cross Road, and the turns between Charing Cross Road and Shaftesbury Avenue? Oh, and the left turn into Piccadilly too? I ask as the 38 converts to bendy operation soon, and I'll be interested to see how easily (or not) they can make those movements... -- Dave Arquati Imperial College, SW7 www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London A bit off topic but would a standard length double decker bus with 3 sets of doors and 2 staircases be a good idea? Better than a bendibus? I was following one in my coach and noticed they are sooooo slow around 90 degree corners. Coventional vehicles are much faster and dont take the whole road. |
How bendy is a bendy bus?
On Tue, 1 Nov 2005 11:28:01 -0000, "David B"
wrote: "Dave Arquati" wrote in message ... Is it bendy enough to make the left turn from New Oxford Street into Charing Cross Road, and the turns between Charing Cross Road and Shaftesbury Avenue? Oh, and the left turn into Piccadilly too? I ask as the 38 converts to bendy operation soon, and I'll be interested to see how easily (or not) they can make those movements... A bit off topic but would a standard length double decker bus with 3 sets of doors and 2 staircases be a good idea? Better than a bendibus? I was following one in my coach and noticed they are sooooo slow around 90 degree corners. Coventional vehicles are much faster and dont take the whole road. Ah you seem to be referring to a Berlin design of double decker. I have not used the brand new Neomans yet but I did not notice that the Berlin deckers were that much faster with two staircases and three doors. It is interesting to note that Berlin has restricted the old open boarding concept although many people still board via the front and centre doors. The new Neoman DD buses may be worse than a bendy bus simply because their overall length is longer that the front section of a bendy. If you think a 38 struggles on some turns then I can't see a 12 or 13.73m double deck doing much better. http://www.man-mn.de/en/Coaches/News...d=46804&print= The speed of movement of bendy buses is highly dependent on the skill of the driver. When a route is newly converted you will see a lot of hesitation as familiarity with the vehicles is low. However I have been in some well driven bendy buses on the 73 and they can be fairly hustled along and around the route with no discomfort and full safety. There are some very tight turns on the 73 and to experience an 18m bus piloted skillfully is impressive. -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
How bendy is a bendy bus?
In message , Paul Corfield
writes However I have been in some well driven bendy buses on the 73 and they can be fairly hustled along and around the route with no discomfort and full safety. There are some very tight turns on the 73 and to experience an 18m bus piloted skillfully is impressive. And if the drivers are rewarded with a good pay grade I'm sure they'll do even better. -- Clive |
How bendy is a bendy bus?
"Paul Corfield" wrote in message The speed of movement of bendy buses is highly dependent on the skill of the driver. When a route is newly converted you will see a lot of hesitation as familiarity with the vehicles is low. However I have been in some well driven bendy buses on the 73 and they can be fairly hustled along and around the route with no discomfort and full safety. There are some very tight turns on the 73 and to experience an 18m bus piloted skillfully is impressive. -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! I will have a look at the Neomans later. I haven't driven an artic, but I understand that compared with a normal bus, they are limited round very tight corners. The Volvo type of artic only allows limited engine power to be developed while turning sharply to avoid any possible jack knifing. The 436 I followed from New Cross was running light to Lewisham. It was quite quick in a straight line, but when going round corners, it really slowed up, where a B7TL would be spun round! |
How bendy is a bendy bus?
On Tue, 01 Nov 2005 19:29:29 +0000, Paul Corfield
wrote: On Tue, 1 Nov 2005 11:28:01 -0000, "David B" wrote: A bit off topic but would a standard length double decker bus with 3 sets of doors and 2 staircases be a good idea? Better than a bendibus? I was following one in my coach and noticed they are sooooo slow around 90 degree corners. Coventional vehicles are much faster and dont take the whole road. Ah you seem to be referring to a Berlin design of double decker. I have not used the brand new Neomans yet but I did not notice that the Berlin deckers were that much faster with two staircases and three doors. It is interesting to note that Berlin has restricted the old open boarding concept although many people still board via the front and centre doors. Back way back when, Bournemouth Corporation ran 6-wheel trolleybuses with two staircases, and the front exit door operated by the driver with a lever mechanism. It's almost 60 years since I last rode on one, but they seemed to speed up time at stops. The rear platform was open, of course. -- Terry Harper Website Coordinator, The Omnibus Society http://www.omnibussoc.org |
How bendy is a bendy bus?
David B ) gurgled happily, sounding
much like they were saying : I will have a look at the Neomans later. I haven't driven an artic, but I understand that compared with a normal bus, they are limited round very tight corners. The Volvo type of artic only allows limited engine power to be developed while turning sharply to avoid any possible jack knifing. Somebody mentioned here the other day about having seen a jack-knifed Bendi - was it in an underpass? That got me thinking - It's the rears that are driven, not the centre wheels - so if grip was somehow lost at the centre axle, and power was not reduced quickly enough, a jack-knife would be eminently possible. With a sharp dip, it's not difficult to see how the centre axle can "go light" - How much vertical articulation is there in the joint? |
How bendy is a bendy bus?
In message . 170,
Adrian writes That got me thinking - It's the rears that are driven, not the centre wheels - so if grip was somehow lost at the centre axle, and power was not reduced quickly enough, a jack-knife would be eminently possible. I understood the engine to be in the back but drove the rear wheels of the front unit through a cardan shaft to stop any chance of imbalance of drive. -- Clive |
How bendy is a bendy bus?
Clive ) gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying : That got me thinking - It's the rears that are driven, not the centre wheels - so if grip was somehow lost at the centre axle, and power was not reduced quickly enough, a jack-knife would be eminently possible. I understood the engine to be in the back but drove the rear wheels of the front unit through a cardan shaft to stop any chance of imbalance of drive. Makes sense - Merc's website confirms it's rear-engined, but just describes the "rear axle" in the transmission specs - which could mean both rear and centre axles are driven - which would give the same effect if the centre lost grip. I seem to recall reading that the MoD had similar problems with powered trailers on 101 Forward Control Land-Rovers "pushing" too hard and rolling the vehicle, so they dumped that idea. |
How bendy is a bendy bus?
On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 00:01 +0100 (BST), (Colin
Rosenstiel) said: Isn't the point on the 38 to replace large numbers of Routemasters with a lot fewer bendies, as on the 73? The service becoming less frequent, is, of course, a Good Thing, as is the drastic reduction in the number of seats. Because everyone knows that standing in the rain for longer and then having to stand in the bus is what the customers want. -- David Cantrell | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david |
How bendy is a bendy bus?
Clive wrote:
In message . 170, Adrian writes .. I understood the engine to be in the back but drove the rear wheels of the front unit through a cardan shaft to stop any chance of imbalance of drive. -- Clive That's not quite true, the engine indeed drives the rear wheels but the centre axle is a trailing axle,i.e. it has no drive or is in no way connected to the transmission system. The artic section can bend to a PHYSICAL 54 degrees before the system locks up.(The drive and transmission cuts out before the driver has tied it in knots!). Prior to this of course the on-board computer will warn the driver of any impending excessive bendyness. Citaros are fitted with traction control and along with the ABS system will prevent the center (and the front/rear) axle from loosing grip. Again any traction loss or excessive wheel spin is flagged up on the drivers display. Bob |
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