Heathrow-Croydon-Gatwick by rail
How difficult would it be to achieve a Heathrow-Croydon-Gatwick rail connection ? It would reduce M25 load, wouldn't it ?
Mike |
Heathrow-Croydon-Gatwick by rail
maf writes
How difficult would it be to achieve a Heathrow-Croydon-Gatwick rail connection ? It would reduce M25 load,*wouldn't it ? I believe that all it needs is a small section of track to link the GWML to the WLL to enable through running. This would mean that trains from Heathrow would follow the existing route towards Paddington as far as the Eurostar train depot. A link to the Willesden-Clapham Junction would then allow trains to follow the route taken by the existing Willesden Junction-Clapham Junction & Watford-Brighton via Gatwick trains. Problem then would be fitting them in amongst all the existing services, which won't be easy. -- Dave |
Heathrow-Croydon-Gatwick by rail
maf wrote:
How difficult would it be to achieve a Heathrow-Croydon-Gatwick rail connection ? It would reduce M25 load, wouldn't it ? Why Croydon? The Southall to Waste Transfer Station branch virtually connects with the SR Hounslow loop. A connection there and another (or a reverse) at Clapham Junction, and you're done. But I think you need something more direct, which would cost more. As things are at present, we may not even get all LHR terminals connected by a single line (i.e. no reversal or change). Should that be achieved, Heathrow and Luton could be connected via Uxbridge and Watford, mostly using existing or former lines. I suspect more new track would be needed for a direct route to Gatwick - but this would mean the line could be faster. With a 30 minute journey time, you could destroy the argument for a 3rd runway at LHR by allowing the two airports to be treated as one for flight connections. I don't know whether such a railway would be cheaper than the 3rd runway - how much will 40 Km of CTRL cost? Of course, if Cliffe were built on the CTRL, connections from half of Europe could be made as quickly by rail as by air, which would be good for the planet. Colin McKenzie |
Heathrow-Croydon-Gatwick by rail
In article , Dave
writes How difficult would it be to achieve a Heathrow-Croydon-Gatwick rail connection ? It would reduce M25 load,*wouldn't it ? I believe that all it needs is a small section of track to link the GWML to the WLL to enable through running. There's already a link a bit further west, travelling via Willesden. Problem then would be fitting them in amongst all the existing services, which won't be easy. Exactly. -- Clive D.W. Feather, writing for himself | Home: Tel: +44 20 8371 1138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work: Written on my laptop; please observe the Reply-To address |
Heathrow-Croydon-Gatwick by rail
"David Randles" wrote in message
... In article , maf wrote: How difficult would it be to achieve a Heathrow-Croydon-Gatwick rail connection ? It would reduce M25 load, wouldn't it ? Quite easy via Ealing Broadway, Kensington Olympia, Clapham Jc and East Croydon. All that is required is a short length of electrification between Acton Main Line and Acton Wells Jc. However as discussed here several times before, the amount of Heathrow-Gatwick traffic is very small and would almost certainly not justify a regular direct train service. Judging from the traffic generated by Virgins trains when they were allowed to run, traffic for that line is there, although most of it takes the Guildford route now. A cross-platform link with a Heathrow service at Ealing Broadway, or Hayes and Harlington, would achieve the same objective. -- Terry Harper, Web Co-ordinator, The Omnibus Society http://www.omnibussoc.org E-mail: URL: http://www.terry.harper.btinternet.co.uk/ |
Heathrow-Croydon-Gatwick by rail
There is already a rail connection, it just needs electrifying.
But I really don't think the Heathrow-Gatwick passenger numbers justify doing it "maf" wrote in message ... How difficult would it be to achieve a Heathrow-Croydon-Gatwick rail connection ? It would reduce M25 load, wouldn't it ? Mike |
Heathrow-Croydon-Gatwick by rail
In article ,
Terry Harper wrote: "David Randles" wrote in message ... In article , maf wrote: How difficult would it be to achieve a Heathrow-Croydon-Gatwick rail connection ? It would reduce M25 load, wouldn't it ? Quite easy via Ealing Broadway, Kensington Olympia, Clapham Jc and East Croydon. All that is required is a short length of electrification between Acton Main Line and Acton Wells Jc. However as discussed here several times before, the amount of Heathrow-Gatwick traffic is very small and would almost certainly not justify a regular direct train service. Judging from the traffic generated by Virgins trains when they were allowed to run, traffic for that line is there, although most of it takes the Guildford route now. A cross-platform link with a Heathrow service at Ealing Broadway, or Hayes and Harlington, would achieve the same objective. Indeed, in the very early days of planning for the Virgin XC Operation Princess, the intention was to run an hourly service from Birmingham (and points north) to Brighton via Reading, calling at Hayes (for a shuttle to Heathrow), Kensington Olympia and Gatwick. This would have been a more cost-effective way of achieving the same objective, while at the same time serving both Heathrow and Gatwick from the Midlands. It fell by the wayside because of "pathing problems" I believe. David |
Heathrow-Croydon-Gatwick by rail
It is already being planned as part of the airport expansion for
Heathrow Terminal 5. There will be an electrified link between West Drayton and Staines down most of the route of the old GWR branch line through Poyle. At Staines there will two chords from the re-instated branch line to join the main line to get to Virgia Water and the West and the other to get to Feltham, London and ultimately Gatwick. Likewise there will be an extra chord at West Drayton to allow trains to divert west to Reading. There is already a link to the east for Paddington. Midway near Poyle there will be a spur into Terminal 5 - this will meet up with an extended Heathrow Express branch. In addition the current Heathrow Express branch will have an extra chord installed at its northern end so that trains can also divert west along the main GWR line to Reading etc. Currently there is only a chord onto the main line to get to Paddington. Under T5 - the service tunnels of which were built many years ago during the building of the T4 loop of the Picadilly Line - even before any planning application for T5 had even started but no-one noticed - a huge empty box was excavated that will now become the rail interchange to/from T5. This will include not only a new spur from the Picadilly Line loop, but also a junction for the Heathrow Express and the new spur from the West Drayton/Staines branch. This has all been planned for years. Crossrail will also use these lines - providing an excellent connection to/from Heathrow and Stansted and to/from Heathrow and Luton. The Local Heathrow Express, which local residents were lead to believe would also provide local services after all of the noise, dirt and disruption which was caused when the HEX line was being built, never actually eventuated. It MAY be introduced in the near future, but most likely at prices well beyond most airport workers wages. Meanwhile you can all look forwards to IMMENSE disruption on the GWR line as Crossrail is being built, on the SWT lines near Staines as the T5 branch is reinstated, and on the GWR line at West Drayton as all the various chords, spurs and connections are upgraded or installed. The GOOD thing about all this rail development at Heathrow is that given all the new and fast connections between airports and the rest of the country we wont need a new third runway to be built there - thereby saving all the houses (10,000) and listed buildings etc., that will need to be demolished if it does get built. CJB. "maf" wrote in message ... How difficult would it be to achieve a Heathrow-Croydon-Gatwick rail connection ? It would reduce M25 load, wouldn't it ? Mike -- |
Heathrow-Croydon-Gatwick by rail
"Chris Brady" wrote in message m... Under T5 - the service tunnels of which were built many years ago during the building of the T4 loop of the Picadilly Line - even before any planning application for T5 had even started but no-one noticed - ... If the service tunnels for T5 were built during the building of the T4 Piccadilly loop, they must now be in the wrong place for T5. The Piccadilly loop including a straight stretch for a T5 station, but it can't be used for this because AIUI the location of T5 has been moved westwards. -- Richard J. (to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address) |
Heathrow-Croydon-Gatwick by rail
Chris Brady writes
The Local Heathrow Express, which local residents were lead to believe would also provide local services after all of the noise, dirt and disruption which was caused when the HEX line was being built, never actually eventuated. It MAY be introduced in the near future, but most likely at prices well beyond most airport workers wages. BAA have now ordered the trains needed for the new service. "Siemens has won a contract to supply four new Desiro electric trains as part of a GBP30 million investment by BAA, the world's leading airport company, to provide a new stopping service between London Paddington Station and Heathrow Airport. The new service will call at Ealing Broadway, West Ealing, Hanwell, Southall and Hayes. [...] "The new trains are due to enter passenger service from December 2004." http://www.siemens.co.uk/default.asp?content_id=2967 -- Dave |
Heathrow-Croydon-Gatwick by rail
"Colin McKenzie" wrote in message ... Chris Brady wrote: It is already being planned as part of the airport expansion for Heathrow Terminal 5. There will be an electrified link between West Drayton and Staines down most of the route of the old GWR branch line through Poyle. At Staines there will two chords from the re-instated branch line to join the main line to get to Virgia Water and the West and the other to get to Feltham, London and ultimately Gatwick. Likewise there will be an extra chord at West Drayton to allow trains to divert west to Reading. There is already a link to the east for Paddington. Midway near Poyle there will be a spur into Terminal 5 - this will meet up with an extended Heathrow Express branch. .... This all sounds suspiciously like what BAA promised during the T5 enquiry - but when the minister made his decision he neglected to require them to build any of it. It's the plan that has been 'talked of' for much of the last 15 years. It has a reasonably positive CBA and doesn't actually cost much (for a new railway) My current view is that none of it is likely to materialise Sadly, I agree. - except possibly as sweeteners for the 3rd runway, should the government be so foolish as to allow that to be built. There should be a direct LHR to LGW link. I reckon you could link existing lines with about 10 miles of new line (including the tunnel from near Feltham), There is no chance of this happening. The area is too built up (even for a tunnel) and a couple of spurs, to provide something reasonably direct and about 25 miles long. Main drawback of this route is it wouldn't interchange with the SWT main line, as it'd use the Hampton Court and Claygate branches. As others have said there is no demand for such a link (and if there were it could be routed over current tracks with little new build). Tim Colin McKenzie |
Heathrow-Croydon-Gatwick by rail
tim wrote:
"Colin McKenzie" wrote in message (Heathrow to Gatwick) and a couple of spurs, to provide something reasonably direct and about 25 miles long. Main drawback of this route is it wouldn't interchange with the SWT main line, as it'd use the Hampton Court and Claygate branches. As others have said there is no demand for such a link (and if there were it could be routed over current tracks with little new build). Demand is generated when Heathrow is so full that regional flights are squeezed out in favour of intercontinental ones. People then need to interchange between LHR and another airport to make flight connections - which is why the link has to be fast. Colin McKenzie |
Heathrow-Croydon-Gatwick by rail
"Colin McKenzie" wrote in message ... tim wrote: "Colin McKenzie" wrote in message (Heathrow to Gatwick) and a couple of spurs, to provide something reasonably direct and about 25 miles long. Main drawback of this route is it wouldn't interchange with the SWT main line, as it'd use the Hampton Court and Claygate branches. As others have said there is no demand for such a link (and if there were it could be routed over current tracks with little new build). Demand is generated when Heathrow is so full that regional flights are squeezed out in favour of intercontinental ones. People then need to interchange between LHR and another airport to make flight connections - and what percentage of pax are going to accept such a routing? It's a guarenteed way of persuading pax to route via AMS etc Tim which is why the link has to be fast. Colin McKenzie |
Heathrow-Croydon-Gatwick by rail
"Dave" wrote in message ... maf writes How difficult would it be to achieve a Heathrow-Croydon-Gatwick rail connection ? It would reduce M25 load, wouldn't it ? It wouldn't be that popular either Not many folks fly into Heathrow to connect at Gatwick or vice-versa Now Gatwick to Stansted via Luton ? there's a thought |
Heathrow-Croydon-Gatwick by rail
In message , Seanie
O'Kilfoyle writes "Dave" wrote in message ... maf writes How difficult would it be to achieve a Heathrow-Croydon-Gatwick rail connection ? It would reduce M25 load, wouldn't it ? It wouldn't be that popular either Not many folks fly into Heathrow to connect at Gatwick or vice-versa Now Gatwick to Stansted via Luton ? there's a thought Hmmmmmm which month shall we choose to work on the track in South London and cause disruption to the Gatwick Express and people trying to get from London to Gatwick to fly away on summer holidays/ come back from summer holidays and bring tourists to London and home again. I know! Just as school holidays start and most of August. Glad to see the idiots that destroyed Railtrack are doing same great job at Network Rail. -- CJG |
Heathrow-Croydon-Gatwick by rail
CJG writes
Hmmmmmm which month shall we choose to work on the track in South London and cause disruption to the Gatwick Express and people trying to get from London to Gatwick to fly away on summer holidays/ come back from summer holidays and bring tourists to London and home again. I know! Just as school holidays start and most of August. Which forms the largest passenger market; travellers to/from Gatwick Airport, or commuters (mainly to/from London, but other places too)? Glad to see the idiots that destroyed Railtrack are doing same great job at Network Rail. Or perhaps they are trying to minimise the impact on the people who spend the most money - those with expensive season tickets. -- Dave |
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