Suitcase and backpack?
 

I'll be in London this August. At first I thought I'd take a cab to my hotel.
then I read this might cost upwards of 50 pounds. The tube for 4 pounds
sounds better. I will probably get to Heathrow 1-2-3 central around 11 p.m.
on a Friday night. Are there likely to be many passengers at that time?
I'm hoping to be able to sit down with a suitcase between my feet and a
small day pack on my lap. Thanks.

Suitcase and backpack?
 

Using the Underground sounds sensible. There is a train every 5 minutes up
to 2330, then reducing service up to around midnight. I don't think you will
have a seating problem.

You could then use a combination of buses but I think a taxi would be more
sensible with luggage. Price would depend on how far you go but after
midnight £50 sounds about right.

Try http://journeyplanner.tfl.gov.uk/use...T2?language=en for
more information

Regards,
MaxB



"David J Bush" wrote in message
...
I'll be in London this August. At first I thought I'd take a cab to my
hotel.
then I read this might cost upwards of 50 pounds. The tube for 4 pounds
sounds better. I will probably get to Heathrow 1-2-3 central around 11
p.m.
on a Friday night. Are there likely to be many passengers at that time?
I'm hoping to be able to sit down with a suitcase between my feet and a
small day pack on my lap. Thanks.

Suitcase and backpack?
 

David J Bush wrote:
I'll be in London this August. At first I thought I'd take a cab to
my hotel. then I read this might cost upwards of 50 pounds. The
tube for 4 pounds sounds better. I will probably get to Heathrow
1-2-3 central around 11 p.m. on a Friday night. Are there likely to
be many passengers at that time?
I'm hoping to be able to sit down with a suitcase between my feet
and a small day pack on my lap. Thanks.

You will have no problem getting a seat at Heathrow. The last through
train to central London from Heathrow T123 departs at 23:49. The
journey time to central London (Piccadilly Circus) is about 45 minutes.

Will you need to change to another line to reach your hotel? If you're
not sure, let us know the hotel's address (the postcode will suffice)
and we'll advise further.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

Suitcase and backpack?
 

David J Bush typed


I'll be in London this August. At first I thought I'd take a cab to my
hotel.
then I read this might cost upwards of 50 pounds. The tube for 4 pounds
sounds better. I will probably get to Heathrow 1-2-3 central around 11 p.m.
on a Friday night. Are there likely to be many passengers at that time?
I'm hoping to be able to sit down with a suitcase between my feet and a
small day pack on my lap. Thanks.

You should be fine. There are usually enough people around for you to
feel safe, and few enough so you should be able to sit.

Piccadilly Line Tube trains have more space for luggage beside the doors
than other tube trains, so keeping your case between your feet may not
be a good idea.

Try very hard to get a Pay-As-You-Go Oyster card (which you can always
give to a friend who visits London) before you arrive, as the fares can
be *much* cheaper that way. (Though you can order online, I thing
foreign credit cards may be a problem.)

Where will your hotel be?

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.

Suitcase and backpack?
 

On Thu, 20 Apr 2006 10:14:20 +0100, Helen Deborah Vecht wrote:

|You should be fine. There are usually enough people around for you to
|feel safe, and few enough so you should be able to sit.
|
|Piccadilly Line Tube trains have more space for luggage beside the doors
|than other tube trains, so keeping your case between your feet may not
|be a good idea.
|
|Try very hard to get a Pay-As-You-Go Oyster card (which you can always
|give to a friend who visits London) before you arrive, as the fares can
|be *much* cheaper that way. (Though you can order online, I thing
|foreign credit cards may be a problem.)
|
|Where will your hotel be?

There is an excellent map of the Underground available online. I can
change to the District line at Acton Town, Hammersmith, Baron's Court,
or Earl's Court. I have to be sure to get on a train bound for Edgware
Road. Then I change again at Notting Hill gate to the Central line, and
get off at Queensway, which is closest to the Byron on Queensborough
Terrace. Or, if I'm feeling adventurous, I could just take the Piccadilly
line all the way to Holborn, then back west to Queensway.

Luggage next to the door? Okay if you say so- I was just worried about
leaving my luggage unattended, with all the security concerns these days.

An Oyster card sounds like an excellent idea. But I already bought a
"London Pass" which provides free use throughout zones 1-6 plus access
to a bunch of touristy stuff. I'll probably have to scramble around like
a madman to get my money's worth on that.

Having spent many hours playing the "Aldwych" level in Tomb Raider 3,
I was a little disappointed to not find it on the map. But I hear it still
exists and is being used as a movie set, is that right?

Thanks very much!

Suitcase and backpack?
 

David J Bush typed

An Oyster card sounds like an excellent idea. But I already bought a
"London Pass" which provides free use throughout zones 1-6 plus access
to a bunch of touristy stuff. I'll probably have to scramble around like
a madman to get my money's worth on that.

If your pass covers Zones 1-6, you should not need to buy any other
ticket to cover your journey from Heathrow, which is in Zone 6 (so long
as it's valid on your arrival date). You won't need an Oyster, then.

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.

Suitcase and backpack?
 

David J Bush wrote:
There is an excellent map of the Underground available online. I can
change to the District line at Acton Town, Hammersmith, Baron's Court,
or Earl's Court.

Change from the eastbound Piccadilly to the eastbound District at
Barons Court. It has the narrowest platforms, the least amount of
platform furniture to impede your luggage, and is much quieter than
Hammersmith. It is also the last cross-platform interchange between the
District and the Piccadilly; Earl's Court requires the use of an
escalator or the lifts.

I have to be sure to get on a train bound for Edgware Road.

You can't get Edgware Road trains at Barons Court. Take the first
eastbound District Line train that turns up at Barons Court and change
at Earl's Court. Edgware Road trains generally arrive at the station on
platform 2, and usually run every 8 minutes.

Then I change again at Notting Hill gate to the Central line, and
get off at Queensway, which is closest to the Byron on Queensborough
Terrace. Or, if I'm feeling adventurous, I could just take the Piccadilly
line all the way to Holborn, then back west to Queensway.

Notting Hill Gate is a rough interchange for heavy luggage; it has lots
of stairs and long passageways. You might want to consider staying on
the train to Bayswater and disembarking there - Bayswater is literally
down the road from Queensway, and likely to be just as close or only
slightly further from your hotel.

Taking the Piccadilly any further than Earl's Court is a Bad Idea, as
the lack of step-free access along the route would only prolong your
journey as you drag your stuff around.


Luggage next to the door? Okay if you say so- I was just worried about
leaving my luggage unattended, with all the security concerns these days.

Just sit on the other side of the glass - luggage on one side, you on
the other.

snip


Having spent many hours playing the "Aldwych" level in Tomb Raider 3,
I was a little disappointed to not find it on the map. But I hear it still
exists and is being used as a movie set, is that right?

It is still present, but not used very much for filming these days.
Charing Cross Jubilee tends to be used more often these days for
filming.

Suitcase and backpack?
 

In message of Thu, 20 Apr
2006 07:43:19 in uk.transport.london, David J Bush
writes
On Thu, 20 Apr 2006 10:14:20 +0100, Helen Deborah Vecht
wrote:

|You should be fine. There are usually enough people around for you to
|feel safe, and few enough so you should be able to sit.
|
|Piccadilly Line Tube trains have more space for luggage beside the doors
|than other tube trains, so keeping your case between your feet may not
|be a good idea.
|
|Try very hard to get a Pay-As-You-Go Oyster card (which you can always
|give to a friend who visits London) before you arrive, as the fares can
|be *much* cheaper that way. (Though you can order online, I thing
|foreign credit cards may be a problem.)
|
|Where will your hotel be?

There is an excellent map of the Underground available online. I can
change to the District line at Acton Town, Hammersmith, Baron's Court,
or Earl's Court. I have to be sure to get on a train bound for Edgware
Road. Then I change again at Notting Hill gate to the Central line, and
get off at Queensway, which is closest to the Byron on Queensborough
Terrace. Or, if I'm feeling adventurous, I could just take the Piccadilly
line all the way to Holborn, then back west to Queensway.

I would not advise using the map to choose such a route. The critical
thing with complicated journeys is the interchanges. The journey planner
may be better and can be found at
http://journeyplanner.tfl.gov.uk/user/XSLT_TRIP_REQUEST2?language=en
The post code (precise zip code) - W2 3SH - is a better locator for that
software than anything to do with byron.


Luggage next to the door? Okay if you say so- I was just worried about
leaving my luggage unattended, with all the security concerns these days.

If it is within sight and sound, I would argue it is not unattended.
We have had about 30 years of terrorism and rarely bother about it.


An Oyster card sounds like an excellent idea. But I already bought a
"London Pass" which provides free use throughout zones 1-6 plus access
to a bunch of touristy stuff. I'll probably have to scramble around like
a madman to get my money's worth on that.

I found it at http://www.londonpass.com/. The "with transport" options
look expensive at first sight. However, the simplification may make it
worth while.


Having spent many hours playing the "Aldwych" level in Tomb Raider 3,
I was a little disappointed to not find it on the map. But I hear it still
exists and is being used as a movie set, is that right?

It has been so used. You can find the derelict-looking entrance on the
north side of the Strand just east of Waterloo Bridge. Doubtless,
someone else can be more precise about that.


Thanks very much!
London has many sorts of people including friendly, unfriendly and busy.
--
Walter Briscoe

Suitcase and backpack?
 

In message , David J Bush
writes

There is an excellent map of the Underground available online. I can
change to the District line at Acton Town, Hammersmith, Baron's Court,
or Earl's Court. I have to be sure to get on a train bound for Edgware
Road.

The only place to change directly to an Edgware Road service is Earls
Court, which involves an escalator (or possibly a lift/elevator).

With luggage you may find it easier to change to the District at
Hammersmith or Barons Court - these are both very simple cross-platform
interchanges. You would then need to change again at Earls Court, but
that is another simple cross-platform interchange between the District
line services.

Then I change again at Notting Hill gate to the Central line, and
get off at Queensway, which is closest to the Byron on Queensborough
Terrace.

You could avoid that by getting off the Edgware Road service at
Bayswater and walking from there - although it doesn't look like it on
the tube diagram, it is actually only about 200 yards from Queensway:

http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.sr...archp=newsearc
h.srf&mapp=newmap.srf

Bear in mind that you are arriving late - if there is any delay
collecting baggage and you don't get to Edgware Road before midnight,
you are likely to miss the last Edgware Road service. If there is a
danger of that happening, you would probably do best to stay on the
Piccadilly line to either Knightsbridge or Hyde Park Corner and then get
a short taxi ride direct to the hotel.

--
Paul Terry

Suitcase and backpack?
 

On Thu, 20 Apr 2006 07:43:19 -0400, David J Bush wrote:

An Oyster card sounds like an excellent idea. But I already bought a
"London Pass" which provides free use throughout zones 1-6 plus access
to a bunch of touristy stuff. I'll probably have to scramble around like
a madman to get my money's worth on that.

That's exactly what we thought when we reviewed it. We will instead be
going for paper ODTCs and paying for each attraction. Much more relaxing.
And PAYG is not suited for tourists who don't know the area when travel
might include national rail services.

--
jhk
Kristiansand, Norway

Suitcase and backpack?
 

There is an excellent map of the Underground available online. I can
change to the District line at Acton Town, Hammersmith, Baron's Court,
or Earl's Court. I have to be sure to get on a train bound for Edgware
Road.

There is cross platform interchange between District and Piccadilly Lines at
Hammersmith and Barons Court, after which the Piccadilly dives underground,
which makes those stations particularly convenient for changing between the
lines without use of stairs, lifts or escalators. However the District Line
services towards Edgware Road operate from Wimbledon via Earls Court so
you'd have to change again at Earls Court (it would be either the same
platform or cross platform). You'd have to weigh up the additional change
against having to come up the escalators and stairs from the Piccadilly
Line.

Then I change again at Notting Hill gate to the Central line, and
get off at Queensway, which is closest to the Byron on Queensborough
Terrace. Or, if I'm feeling adventurous, I could just take the Piccadilly
line all the way to Holborn, then back west to Queensway.

I defer to those who know the stations and the area, but you might want to
consider Bayswater as an option (also on the line to Edgware Road) as I
believe they are only a couple of hundred yards apart. Though Queensway may
possibly be more convenient for the hotel once you are above ground you
might find that is largely cancelled out by the distance to walk between the
District and Central Line at Notting Hill Gate.

G.

Suitcase and backpack?
 

On Thu, 20 Apr 2006 13:11:06 GMT, "Graham J" wrote:

|There is cross platform interchange between District and Piccadilly Lines at
|Hammersmith and Barons Court, after which the Piccadilly dives underground,
|which makes those stations particularly convenient for changing between the
|lines without use of stairs, lifts or escalators. However the District Line
|services towards Edgware Road operate from Wimbledon via Earls Court so
|you'd have to change again at Earls Court (it would be either the same
|platform or cross platform). You'd have to weigh up the additional change
|against having to come up the escalators and stairs from the Piccadilly
|Line.
|...
|I defer to those who know the stations and the area, but you might want to
|consider Bayswater as an option (also on the line to Edgware Road) as I
|believe they are only a couple of hundred yards apart. Though Queensway may
|possibly be more convenient for the hotel once you are above ground you
|might find that is largely cancelled out by the distance to walk between the
|District and Central Line at Notting Hill Gate.

Wow, what a great newsgroup! Accurate, pertinent, and quick responses with
no flames! Bayswater might be even closer to the Byron, if there is a way I
can cut across to Queensborough Terrace without walking a block North or
South. If not, I will just have to struggle to survive somehow. Many thanks
for all your help!

Suitcase and backpack?
 

David J Bush wrote:
On Thu, 20 Apr 2006 13:11:06 GMT, "Graham J"
wrote:

I defer to those who know the stations and the area, but you might
want to consider Bayswater as an option (also on the line to
Edgware Road) as I believe they are only a couple of hundred yards
apart. Though Queensway may possibly be more convenient for the
hotel once you are above ground you might find that is largely
cancelled out by the distance to walk between the District and
Central Line at Notting Hill Gate.

Wow, what a great newsgroup! Accurate, pertinent, and quick
responses with no flames! Bayswater might be even closer to the
Byron, if there is a way I can cut across to Queensborough Terrace
without walking a block North or South. If not, I will just have to
struggle to survive somehow. Many thanks for all your help!

I don't think there is any shortcut to Queensborough Terrace without, as
you say, going a block north or south. Queensway station is closed at
the moment for refurbishment. It's due to open in May (no date
announced yet), so it should be open again by August. But station
refurbishment is notoriously bad at being finished on time! Nearer your
visit, you can check the current state of station closures towards the
bottom of this page: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/realtime/planned.asp .

--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

Suitcase and backpack?
 

"David J Bush" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 20 Apr 2006 13:11:06 GMT, "Graham J"
wrote:

|There is cross platform interchange between District and Piccadilly Lines
at
|Hammersmith and Barons Court, after which the Piccadilly dives
underground,
|which makes those stations particularly convenient for changing between
the
|lines without use of stairs, lifts or escalators. However the District
Line
|services towards Edgware Road operate from Wimbledon via Earls Court so
|you'd have to change again at Earls Court (it would be either the same
|platform or cross platform). You'd have to weigh up the additional
change
|against having to come up the escalators and stairs from the Piccadilly
|Line.
|...
|I defer to those who know the stations and the area, but you might want
to
|consider Bayswater as an option (also on the line to Edgware Road) as I
|believe they are only a couple of hundred yards apart. Though Queensway
may
|possibly be more convenient for the hotel once you are above ground you
|might find that is largely cancelled out by the distance to walk between
the
|District and Central Line at Notting Hill Gate.

Wow, what a great newsgroup! Accurate, pertinent, and quick responses with
no flames! Bayswater might be even closer to the Byron, if there is a way
I
can cut across to Queensborough Terrace without walking a block North or
South. If not, I will just have to struggle to survive somehow. Many
thanks
for all your help!

Whilst I don't disagree with the advice given so far, you are travelling at
night close to the times of the last trains, so you may be better off just
getting the Piccadilly Line in to central London, getting off at say Green
Park and getting a short taxi ride from there to your hotel. The last train
times are available at the www.tfl.gov.uk website.

Regards

David Bennetts

Suitcase and backpack?
 

In article ,
(Paul Terry) wrote:

In message , David J Bush
writes

There is an excellent map of the Underground available online. I can
change to the District line at Acton Town, Hammersmith, Baron's
Court, or Earl's Court. I have to be sure to get on a train bound for
Edgware Road.

The only place to change directly to an Edgware Road service is Earls
Court, which involves an escalator (or possibly a lift/elevator).

With luggage you may find it easier to change to the District at
Hammersmith or Barons Court - these are both very simple
cross-platform interchanges. You would then need to change again at
Earls Court, but that is another simple cross-platform interchange
between the District line services.

Then I change again at Notting Hill gate to the Central line, and
get off at Queensway, which is closest to the Byron on Queensborough
Terrace.

You could avoid that by getting off the Edgware Road service at
Bayswater and walking from there - although it doesn't look like it
on the tube diagram, it is actually only about 200 yards from
Queensway:

http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.sr...z=1&sv=queensb
orough+terrace&st=6&tl=Queensborough+Terrace,+Lond on,+W_2&searchp=news
earch.srf&mapp=newmap.srf

Bear in mind that you are arriving late - if there is any delay
collecting baggage and you don't get to Edgware Road before midnight,
you are likely to miss the last Edgware Road service. If there is a
danger of that happening, you would probably do best to stay on the
Piccadilly line to either Knightsbridge or Hyde Park Corner and then
get a short taxi ride direct to the hotel.

If there's any real danger of being that late, wouldn't it be better and
possibly no more expensive, to go to Paddington by Heathrow Express? You
could take a shorter taxi ride to the hotel or even walk.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Suitcase and backpack?
 

In article ,
(David J Bush) wrote:

Wow, what a great newsgroup! Accurate, pertinent, and quick responses
with no flames!

We aim to please. :-)

Bayswater might be even closer to the Byron, if there is a
way I can cut across to Queensborough Terrace without walking a block
North or South. If not, I will just have to struggle to survive
somehow. Many thanks for all your help!

While the walk to the hotel will involve going up or down Portchester
Gardens, it looks only slightly further to the hotel via the Northern
end of Queensborough Terrace as via the Bayswater Road end.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Suitcase and backpack?
 

David Bennetts wrote:


Whilst I don't disagree with the advice given so far, you are
travelling at night close to the times of the last trains, so you
may be better off just getting the Piccadilly Line in to central
London, getting off at say Green Park and getting a short taxi ride
from there to your hotel.

That's a very good point. The last trains for the various journey
options appear to be as follows (times are approximate):

To Queensway: 23:16 from Heathrow, change at Hammersmith, Earl's Court,
Notting Hill Gate, arrive Queensway 00:23. (Or via Holborn, 23:31 from
Heathrow, arrive Queensway 00:39)

To Bayswater: 23:40 from Heathrow, change either (a) at Hammersmith,
Earl's Court, High Street Kensington, all on the level, or (b) at
Gloucester Road to the Circle Line, via stairs and lift. Arrival by
Circle Line at Bayswater 00:33.

To Hammersmith (for taxi to Bayswater): 00:04 from Heathrow, arr.
Hammersmith 00:34

The last Heathrow Express to Paddington departs at 23:47.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

Suitcase and backpack?
 

On Thu, 20 Apr 2006 07:43:19 -0400, David J Bush
wrote:

An Oyster card sounds like an excellent idea. But I already bought a
"London Pass" which provides free use throughout zones 1-6 plus access
to a bunch of touristy stuff. I'll probably have to scramble around like
a madman to get my money's worth on that.

You will - if the London pass costs £110 with a zone 1-6 travelcard
for a week, that's £70 for attractions so you need to be sure of
paying at least £10/day for attractions that are covered by the pass.
Note that it includes the Tate and the British Museum, where entry to
the permanent collection is free, but the pass will get you into any
special exhibitions that are on

Martin

Suitcase and backpack?
 

Richard J. wrote:
[snip]
To Hammersmith (for taxi to Bayswater): 00:04 from Heathrow, arr.
Hammersmith 00:34

Alternatively, the number 27 bus is right upstairs and takes 18 minutes
(allegedly) from Hammersmith bus station to the Westbourne Grove end of
Queensway. It goes about every 15 minutes until 00.38, then half-hourly
all night.

James.

Suitcase and backpack?
 

On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 00:51 +0100 (BST), (Colin Rosenstiel) wrote:

|...
|While the walk to the hotel will involve going up or down Portchester
|Gardens, it looks only slightly further to the hotel via the Northern
|end of Queensborough Terrace as via the Bayswater Road end.

Different maps on the Net seem to disagree on this point.

http://www.capricornhotels.co.uk/byron-detmap.html points to the South half of Q.T.

whereas http://www.hotels-of-london.co.uk/ca...yron/index.htm puts the Byron
in the North half.

What a QUANDRY! Maybe I'll just stand at the corner of "Inv. P." (Inverness Place?)
and Inverness Terrace with my hands on my head and a dumbfounded expression on
my face. Not all that unusual for me...

Suitcase and backpack?
 

In article ,
(David J Bush) wrote:

On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 00:51 +0100 (BST), (Colin
Rosenstiel) wrote:

|...
|While the walk to the hotel will involve going up or down
|Portchester Gardens, it looks only slightly further to the hotel via
|the Northern end of Queensborough Terrace as via the Bayswater Road
|end.

Different maps on the Net seem to disagree on this point.

http://www.capricornhotels.co.uk/byron-detmap.html points to the
South half of Q.T.

whereas http://www.hotels-of-london.co.uk/ca...yron/index.htm
puts the Byron in the North half.

What a QUANDRY! Maybe I'll just stand at the corner of "Inv. P."
(Inverness Place?) and Inverness Terrace with my hands on my head and
a dumbfounded expression on my face. Not all that unusual for me...

I think I'd prefer to trust the map with the hand-added pointer (the one
further North) on the assumption that the people who put it there likely
had a clearer idea than the software that put the other arrow there did.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Suitcase and backpack?
 

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:
In article ,
(David J Bush) wrote:

On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 00:51 +0100 (BST), (Colin
Rosenstiel) wrote:

...
While the walk to the hotel will involve going up or down
Portchester Gardens, it looks only slightly further to the hotel
via the Northern end of Queensborough Terrace as via the
Bayswater Road end.

Different maps on the Net seem to disagree on this point.

http://www.capricornhotels.co.uk/byron-detmap.html points to the
South half of Q.T.

whereas http://www.hotels-of-london.co.uk/ca...yron/index.htm
puts the Byron in the North half.

What a QUANDRY! Maybe I'll just stand at the corner of "Inv. P."
(Inverness Place?) and Inverness Terrace with my hands on my head
and a dumbfounded expression on my face. Not all that unusual for
me...

I think I'd prefer to trust the map with the hand-added pointer
(the one further North) on the assumption that the people who put
it there likely had a clearer idea than the software that put the
other arrow there did.

But they say the hotel is 250 yards from Kensington Gardens, whereas
their arrowed location is 350 yards from the Gardens. The truth is
between the two arrows.

I've checked the address (36-38 Queensborough Terrace) with the City of
Westminster site and Google Earth, and it's actually slightly quicker to
turn left (north) out of Bayswater station and walk via Porchester
Gardens than to go via the Bayswater Road. (Roughly 550 yards against
600 yards.)
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

Suitcase and backpack?
 

In article ,
(Richard J.) wrote:

I think I'd prefer to trust the map with the hand-added pointer
(the one further North) on the assumption that the people who put
it there likely had a clearer idea than the software that put the
other arrow there did.

But they say the hotel is 250 yards from Kensington Gardens, whereas
their arrowed location is 350 yards from the Gardens. The truth is
between the two arrows.

I've checked the address (36-38 Queensborough Terrace) with the City
of Westminster site and Google Earth, and it's actually slightly
quicker to turn left (north) out of Bayswater station and walk via
Porchester Gardens than to go via the Bayswater Road. (Roughly 550
yards against 600 yards.)

So my initial hunch was probably right!

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Suitcase and backpack?
 

Walter Briscoe wrote:

We have had about 30 years of terrorism and rarely bother about it.

Bit more than 30 - go back to Henry VIII, the underground Catholic vs
Protestant activist groups were regularly referred to in their day as
terrorist cells, and a significant terrorist threat thwarted by
government intelligence is still celebrated to this day (well, not this
day, more like November the fifth).