Overheating on the Tube
 

http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/engla...on/5058362.stm

LU's managing director Tim O'Toole said: "There is no one overall
solution to heat on the Tube but significant progress is now being
made.

I thought that Tim O'Toole's solution was for everybody to take a
shower in the morning.

Kevin

Overheating on the Tube
 

Kev wrote:
http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/engla...on/5058362.stm

LU's managing director Tim O'Toole said: "There is no one overall
solution to heat on the Tube but significant progress is now being
made.

I thought that Tim O'Toole's solution was for everybody to take a
shower in the morning.

Kevin

I've been on underground lines in other countries that get as hot or
hotter than London does in the summer and have never noticed any undue
heat. I think a lot of it has to do with the original constuctions
methods. Some places such as Budapest and Paris are cut and cover, with
the stations not far below the surface. But both these were constructed
not long after London and I've never found them to be as hot as parts
of the District/Circle in high summer. The Paris stations are quite
large, but many of the Budapest one are rather small.
If you need to look at the difference, take a trip to Athens. Some of
the newer stations there are large and airy, airconditioned and with
wide platforms. The trains are larger than London tube trains as well,
and you never feel hot, despite the higher temperatures outside.
Obviously you cannot rebuild the entire LU, but if we are to get hotter
summers some though must be given to the comfort of passengers. The
stations on the Jubille Line extension are a good starting point.People
tend to remember an uncomfortable journey on a hot day for longer than
they do one on a cold day when the heat below ground is more welcoming.

Neill

Overheating on the Tube
 

Neillw001 wrote:
I've never found them to be as hot as parts
of the District/Circle in high summer.

The problem on the circle line seems to be all the heat coming from
under the seats

Overheating on the Tube
 

C! wrote:
Neillw001 wrote:
I've never found them to be as hot as parts
of the District/Circle in high summer.

The problem on the circle line seems to be all the heat coming from
under the seats

Yes, and the fact that none of the windows open. This is crazy! The
only stock with opening windows is the A60 and D78 - the more modern
stock does not (except a small bit of the end-doors).

It seems pure madness to have double-glazing throughout, for example,
on the C69/77 stock (Circle Line etc.) which is PURELY to house the
doors when they are open! More modern stock, e.g. 1992 stock on
Northern Line at least has the doors opening oustide the body, so no
double-glazing needed, but why did they not devise opening windows for
that stock?

I have today found out that on 1973 stock (Piccadilly Line), if one
sits on the VERY end seat, i.e. nearest the driver's bulkhead, a faint
stream of airconditioning breeze can be felt if one sits with one's
head right against the glass! I'll be corrected if I'm wrong, but I
think that this is the ONLY ventillated seat in driving carriages.

Marc.

Overheating on the Tube
 

Neillw001 wrote:

I've been on underground lines in other countries that get as hot or
hotter than London does in the summer and have never noticed any undue
heat. I think a lot of it has to do with the original constuctions
methods. Some places such as Budapest and Paris are cut and cover, with
the stations not far below the surface. But both these were constructed
not long after London and I've never found them to be as hot as parts
of the District/Circle in high summer. The Paris stations are quite
large, but many of the Budapest one are rather small.

Merseyrail is always pleasantly cool in summer, and I believe this is
in part down to groundwater - so the story on the BBC website about
cooling that may be helpful.

Neil

Overheating on the Tube
 

Greetings.

In article .com,
Neillw001 wrote:

I've been on underground lines in other countries that get as hot or
hotter than London does in the summer and have never noticed any undue
heat. I think a lot of it has to do with the original constuctions
methods. Some places such as Budapest and Paris are cut and cover, with
the stations not far below the surface. But both these were constructed
not long after London and I've never found them to be as hot as parts
of the District/Circle in high summer.

Only one of the Budapest lines (the oldest) is cut-and-cover. The other
two are (very) deep tunnels. However, you're correct that none of the
three lines get particularly hot in the summer.

Regards,
Tristan

--
_
_V.-o Tristan Miller [en,(fr,de,ia)] Space is limited
/ |`-' -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= In a haiku, so it's hard
(7_\\ http://www.nothingisreal.com/ To finish what you

Overheating on the Tube
 

Riding on the Berlin u-bahn and s-bahn last month in temperatures
comparable to today revealed little passenger discomfort since the cars
all have proper opening hinged side windows. So far wide do they open
that pictorgrams forbid the throwing out of bottles and cans, which is
probably why nanny state Britain would forbid us from having them here.
The D Stock were saunas when first introduced in comparison with the R
and CO/CP stock they replaced and until opening windows were
retro-fitted. Doubtless the awful S-stock planned to replace them will
be likewise until air-con is fitted.

Overheating on the Tube
 

On 8 Jun 2006 03:58:42 -0700, "Kev" wrote:

http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/engla...on/5058362.stm

LU's managing director Tim O'Toole said: "There is no one overall
solution to heat on the Tube but significant progress is now being
made.

I thought that Tim O'Toole's solution was for everybody to take a
shower in the morning.

I think that was a quote taken somewhat out of context.

Interestingly (!) I got caught in a 15 delay between St James Park and
Victoria this evening. This was due a passenger ill on a train at Sloane
Square. The driver gave us what advice / information he could and we
knew that a doctor was on the scene at Sloane Square.

In the carriage I was in a young chap said he was hot, then that he
couldn't breath and then was starting to panic somewhat. This then made
his breathing problem (appear) even worse. The passengers nearest him
did what they could to cool him down with water and by fanning him. A
qualified first aider then came along and sat him down and got him to
breath in a controlled manner. He got off at Victoria with the first
aider and some assistance was sought from the platform staff.

I haven't witnessed that sort of situation before (with heat) and I was
a little surprised to see how the panic built up in just one person so
quickly. It also led me to consider what would have happened if the
train had been very full (it wasn't thankfully) and been stuck for much
longer.

I will be giving some feedback on my experience to the Line Manager as I
think some more frequent announcements from the driver and a better view
of timescales (hard I know in such cases) might have calmed matters
down.

--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Overheating on the Tube
 

wrote:
Riding on the Berlin u-bahn and s-bahn last month in temperatures
comparable to today revealed little passenger discomfort since the cars
all have proper opening hinged side windows. So far wide do they open
that pictorgrams forbid the throwing out of bottles and cans, which is
probably why nanny state Britain would forbid us from having them here.
The D Stock were saunas when first introduced in comparison with the R
and CO/CP stock they replaced and until opening windows were
retro-fitted. Doubtless the awful S-stock planned to replace them will
be likewise until air-con is fitted.

Aircon will be factory-fitted in S-stock. Not quite sure why it's
otherwise 'dreadful' - the stock it's replacing isn't steam-powered or
loco-hauled[*] and doesn't have slam doors, so the usual objections
don't apply. Articulated doorways add significantly to the ambience of
metro stock, and they seem to be planning a sensible door
configuration.
[*] hmm, tautologous? Anyone know of an SMU?

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

Overheating on the Tube
 

John B wrote:
wrote:
Riding on the Berlin u-bahn and s-bahn last month in temperatures
comparable to today revealed little passenger discomfort since the cars
all have proper opening hinged side windows. So far wide do they open
that pictorgrams forbid the throwing out of bottles and cans, which is
probably why nanny state Britain would forbid us from having them here.
The D Stock were saunas when first introduced in comparison with the R
and CO/CP stock they replaced and until opening windows were
retro-fitted. Doubtless the awful S-stock planned to replace them will
be likewise until air-con is fitted.

Aircon will be factory-fitted in S-stock. Not quite sure why it's
otherwise 'dreadful' - the stock it's replacing isn't steam-powered or
loco-hauled[*] and doesn't have slam doors, so the usual objections
don't apply. Articulated doorways add significantly to the ambience of
metro stock, and they seem to be planning a sensible door
configuration.

[*] hmm, tautologous? Anyone know of an SMU?

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

Does "articulated doorways" mean that each carriage will be directly
connected to its neighbours, thus removing the ONLY source of decent
ventilation, i.e. the end-doors' opening windows?! So, the ONLY place
on the train where one can actually stand and feel reasonably
comfortable in hot weather is going to be removed. What's that
"ambience" to which you are referring: tropics under London? Now,
that's REAL progress!

Marc.

Overheating on the Tube
 

I think the problem with the District and Circle lines is they pass
Westminster. An awful lot of hot air eminates from there.

"C!" wrote in message
oups.com...

Neillw001 wrote:
I've never found them to be as hot as parts
of the District/Circle in high summer.

The problem on the circle line seems to be all the heat coming from
under the seats

Overheating on the Tube
 

wrote:
John B wrote:
wrote:
Riding on the Berlin u-bahn and s-bahn last month in temperatures
comparable to today revealed little passenger discomfort since the cars
all have proper opening hinged side windows. So far wide do they open
that pictorgrams forbid the throwing out of bottles and cans, which is
probably why nanny state Britain would forbid us from having them here.
The D Stock were saunas when first introduced in comparison with the R
and CO/CP stock they replaced and until opening windows were
retro-fitted. Doubtless the awful S-stock planned to replace them will
be likewise until air-con is fitted.
Aircon will be factory-fitted in S-stock. Not quite sure why it's
otherwise 'dreadful' - the stock it's replacing isn't steam-powered or
loco-hauled[*] and doesn't have slam doors, so the usual objections
don't apply. Articulated doorways add significantly to the ambience of
metro stock, and they seem to be planning a sensible door
configuration.

[*] hmm, tautologous? Anyone know of an SMU?

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

Does "articulated doorways" mean that each carriage will be directly
connected to its neighbours, thus removing the ONLY source of decent
ventilation, i.e. the end-doors' opening windows?! So, the ONLY place
on the train where one can actually stand and feel reasonably
comfortable in hot weather is going to be removed. What's that
"ambience" to which you are referring: tropics under London? Now,
that's REAL progress!

Marc.

But it will be fitted with AirCon from new.

Overheating on the Tube
 

wrote:
Aircon will be factory-fitted in S-stock. Not quite sure why it's
otherwise 'dreadful' - the stock it's replacing isn't steam-powered or
loco-hauled[*] and doesn't have slam doors, so the usual objections
don't apply. Articulated doorways add significantly to the ambience of
metro stock, and they seem to be planning a sensible door
configuration.


Does "articulated doorways" mean that each carriage will be directly
connected to its neighbours, thus removing the ONLY source of decent
ventilation, i.e. the end-doors' opening windows?! So, the ONLY place
on the train where one can actually stand and feel reasonably
comfortable in hot weather is going to be removed. What's that
"ambience" to which you are referring: tropics under London? Now,
that's REAL progress!


See the first sentence, "aircon will be factory fitted in S-stock".

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

Overheating on the Tube
 

Paul Corfield wrote:
On 8 Jun 2006 03:58:42 -0700, "Kev" wrote:

http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/engla...on/5058362.stm

LU's managing director Tim O'Toole said: "There is no one overall
solution to heat on the Tube but significant progress is now being
made.

I thought that Tim O'Toole's solution was for everybody to take a
shower in the morning.

I think that was a quote taken somewhat out of context.

Interestingly (!) I got caught in a 15 delay between St James Park and
Victoria this evening. This was due a passenger ill on a train at Sloane
Square. The driver gave us what advice / information he could and we
knew that a doctor was on the scene at Sloane Square.

In the carriage I was in a young chap said he was hot, then that he
couldn't breath and then was starting to panic somewhat. This then made
his breathing problem (appear) even worse. The passengers nearest him
did what they could to cool him down with water and by fanning him. A
qualified first aider then came along and sat him down and got him to
breath in a controlled manner. He got off at Victoria with the first
aider and some assistance was sought from the platform staff.

I haven't witnessed that sort of situation before (with heat) and I was
a little surprised to see how the panic built up in just one person so
quickly. It also led me to consider what would have happened if the
train had been very full (it wasn't thankfully) and been stuck for much
longer.

I will be giving some feedback on my experience to the Line Manager as I
think some more frequent announcements from the driver and a better view
of timescales (hard I know in such cases) might have calmed matters
down.

--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Panic attacks are the thing that make me wary of travelling on the
Underground. The problem with them is that they can strike anyone at
any time and can set off an attack in other people. If you don't know
how to deal with them they can be very distressing. If you do know how
to deal with them, sometimes your mind takes over and you can't apply
comntrol methods. Having a guard with medical traiing on trains might
alleviate the problem and provide communication with the driver, but
obviously that's not going to happen. Some sort of control over the
number of people allowed to cram into a carriage in hot weather might
be a better solution, perhaps even going as far a banning standing at
those times.

Neill

Overheating on the Tube
 

Neillw001 wrote:
Some sort of control over the
number of people allowed to cram into a carriage in hot weather might
be a better solution, perhaps even going as far a banning standing at
those times.

....which would instead cause similar crowds in stations or just
outside.

It wouldn't work, which is probably why it hasn't been done.

Neil

Overheating on the Tube
 

John B wrote:
See the first sentence, "aircon will be factory fitted in S-stock".

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

Your point being?

Marc.

Overheating on the Tube
 

wrote:
See the first sentence, "aircon will be factory fitted in S-stock".

Your point being?


That it will no longer be the case that standing by an open inter-car
window will be the only way you can keep cool. Instead, there will be a
load of vents and grilles blowing cold air into the car in summer and
warm air in winter. This will mean that the ambience is pleasant,
rather than either tropical or frozen.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

Overheating on the Tube
 

Kev wrote:
http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/engla...on/5058362.stm

LU's managing director Tim O'Toole said: "There is no one overall
solution to heat on the Tube but significant progress is now being
made.

I thought that Tim O'Toole's solution was for everybody to take a
shower in the morning.

Kevin


What amazes is that, even in this weather, some of the City types are
still wearing their hot suit jackets. Perhaps TfL should start working
with local businesses to discourage this.
Looking smart is all very well, but not much good if you're covered in
sweat.

Thank goodness my office has a relaxed dress code.

Overheating on the Tube
 

John B wrote:
wrote:
See the first sentence, "aircon will be factory fitted in S-stock".

Your point being?


That it will no longer be the case that standing by an open inter-car
window will be the only way you can keep cool. Instead, there will be a
load of vents and grilles blowing cold air into the car in summer and
warm air in winter. This will mean that the ambience is pleasant,
rather than either tropical or frozen.

For the first 3 weeks, until the ac breaks down, which will happen.

Overheating on the Tube
 

Spyke wrote:
What amazes is that, even in this weather, some of the City types are
still wearing their hot suit jackets. Perhaps TfL should start working
with local businesses to discourage this.
Looking smart is all very well, but not much good if you're covered in
sweat.

Thank goodness my office has a relaxed dress code.

Came in to work this morning with the usual tshirt/jacket combo -- it
can get very cold at 3AM (especially when you're getting about 5 hours
of broken sleep a day with 7 12 hour nights in a row), which is
stifflingly hot for the walk back from the station tomorow lunch time,
but there's not much choice from a practical point of view, no room in
my bag.

Overheating on the Tube
 

wrote in message
ups.com...

C! wrote:
Neillw001 wrote:
I've never found them to be as hot as parts
of the District/Circle in high summer.

The problem on the circle line seems to be all the heat coming from
under the seats

Yes, and the fact that none of the windows open. This is crazy! The
only stock with opening windows is the A60 and D78 - the more modern
stock does not (except a small bit of the end-doors).

It seems pure madness to have double-glazing throughout, for example,
on the C69/77 stock (Circle Line etc.) which is PURELY to house the
doors when they are open! More modern stock, e.g. 1992 stock on
Northern Line at least has the doors opening oustide the body, so no
double-glazing needed, but why did they not devise opening windows for
that stock?

I have today found out that on 1973 stock (Piccadilly Line), if one
sits on the VERY end seat, i.e. nearest the driver's bulkhead, a faint
stream of airconditioning breeze can be felt if one sits with one's
head right against the glass! I'll be corrected if I'm wrong, but I
think that this is the ONLY ventillated seat in driving carriages.

Marc.


When has 92TS ran on the Northern Line?
Andrew

Overheating on the Tube
 

There was an item on the news last night about overheating on the tube - but
in the stations, not on the trains. Engineers at Victoria (and later on at
other stations which get very hot) will use the water that is pumped out of
the ground (which would otherwise flood the station) to cool the ambient air
in a heat exchanger. They quoted reductions of temperatures of about 5 deg
C - to 25 deg C.

But none of this addresses the problem of the trains themselves getting
unbearably hot, which mainly happens because so few windows on modern stock
can open so you don't get a draught through the train.

Overheating on the Tube
 

Neil Williams wrote:
...which would instead cause similar crowds in stations or just
outside.

It wouldn't work, which is probably why it hasn't been done.

Why can't we air condition the stations at least? These can be just as
unbearable, and it can't be TOO difficult to do. Expensive, yes, but a
decent system could clean and filter the air too.

I know the deep level stations have the problem of heat extraction, but
if you can sort out the stations then it must help overall passenger
comfort. Else have part of a train that collects the extracted heat,
which is then vented at a station?

Jonathan

Overheating on the Tube
 

"awful S-stock" ?

Say 32% less seating for those unfortunates on the Met Line.

Overheating on the Tube
 

Jonathan Morris wrote:

Neil Williams wrote:
...which would instead cause similar crowds in stations or just
outside.

It wouldn't work, which is probably why it hasn't been done.

Why can't we air condition the stations at least? These can be just as
unbearable, and it can't be TOO difficult to do. Expensive, yes, but a
decent system could clean and filter the air too.

I know the deep level stations have the problem of heat extraction, but
if you can sort out the stations then it must help overall passenger
comfort. Else have part of a train that collects the extracted heat,
which is then vented at a station?

Jonathan

"Might" be feasible on a small station, but a place like Oxford Circus
has a total of 4 2/3 miles* of passageway (inc non public). Now look at
the air con plants at your place of work and consider where you'd put
one big enough to make a difference round OXO C
, or any other decent sized central London station. And as for Bank ...

The trains have a similar problem - any aircon plant big enough to deal
with 100 people per carriage is going to be too big to fit under the
floor or seats (scale up a four person car plant ...). And you have to
carry the heat out of the tunnel, not dump it in so you would need one
hell of a heat sink - with the same space constraint problem, as well
as a reliable system of dumping the heat when in the open and not in
the tunnel - and thats without the problem of the Victoria Line where
the trains only surface when in the depot...

The other issue is cost / benefit. After all do you really want to pay
for all this expensive engineering when the number of days the tube is
really unbearable is in finger counting territory in a typical year ?

Overheating on the Tube
 

Yes, and the fact that none of the windows open. This is crazy! The
only stock with opening windows is the A60 and D78 - the more modern
stock does not (except a small bit of the end-doors).

Admit defeat on this one - don't know why. Suspect the nanny state over
the years.
Haven't looked, but do the refurbished D78s have opening windows ? And
I can't remember whether the Pic '72s had them before their
refurbishment. If so we can approximately date the likely change in
standards.


It seems pure madness to have double-glazing throughout, for example,
on the C69/77 stock (Circle Line etc.) which is PURELY to house the
doors when they are open! More modern stock, e.g. 1992 stock on
Northern Line at least has the doors opening oustide the body, so no
double-glazing needed, but why did they not devise opening windows for
that stock?

They are not double glazed, there are two panes of glass :O)
Not as daft as it sounds, there is no seal and quite some airflow, and
the temperature of the air in the cavity is effectively the same as the
outside.

The trend to outside hung doors has more to do with the gaining of a
couple of inches of space ...

Overheating on the Tube
 

On 11 Jun 2006 00:44:42 -0700, "Mark W"
wrote:

The other issue is cost / benefit. After all do you really want to pay
for all this expensive engineering when the number of days the tube is
really unbearable is in finger counting territory in a typical year ?

Do you travel in the rush hour?

--
James Farrar
. @gmail.com

Overheating on the Tube
 

Neil Williams wrote:

Merseyrail is always pleasantly cool in summer, and I believe this is
in part down to groundwater - so the story on the BBC website about
cooling that may be helpful.


Perhaps they shoudHighbury an Islington are very cool, especially
compared with the neighbouring Victoria Line ones that are very hot

Overheating on the Tube
 

In article . com, Mark
W writes

Jonathan Morris wrote:

Neil Williams wrote:
...which would instead cause similar crowds in stations or just
outside.

It wouldn't work, which is probably why it hasn't been done.

Why can't we air condition the stations at least? These can be just as
unbearable, and it can't be TOO difficult to do. Expensive, yes, but a
decent system could clean and filter the air too.

I know the deep level stations have the problem of heat extraction, but
if you can sort out the stations then it must help overall passenger
comfort. Else have part of a train that collects the extracted heat,
which is then vented at a station?

Jonathan

"Might" be feasible on a small station, but a place like Oxford Circus
has a total of 4 2/3 miles* of passageway (inc non public). Now look at
the air con plants at your place of work and consider where you'd put
one big enough to make a difference round OXO C
, or any other decent sized central London station. And as for Bank ...

snip
But if we can cool the stations even a bit then when the trains stop
some of the internal heat can be exhausted.
I agree that air-con on the trains is virtually a non-starter - there is
nowhere for the heat to go and not enough space for the heat exchanger.
However, if we cool the stations then there is a chance that the tunnels
and trains will also be a bit cooler.
Obviously any ground water already pumped away should be used as a heat
sink, but surely we could also use water to transfer heat from the
platforms to the surface (heat exchanger both ends?

--
John Alexander,

Remove NOSPAM if replying by e-mail

Overheating on the Tube
 

On 8 Jun 2006 14:38:45 -0700, "John B" wrote:


[*] hmm, tautologous? Anyone know of an SMU?

http://www.brc-stockbook.co.uk/smu.htm ?

There have been railcars and multiple-vehicle units powered by steam,
but I don't know about ones which could work in multiple (rather than
just be coupled together or to a trailer)
--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

Overheating on the Tube
 

I have today found out that on 1973 stock (Piccadilly Line), if one
sits on the VERY end seat, i.e. nearest the driver's bulkhead, a faint
stream of airconditioning breeze can be felt if one sits with one's
head right against the glass! I'll be corrected if I'm wrong, but I
think that this is the ONLY ventillated seat in driving carriages.

Most likely due to the fact that the driver's cab is air conditioned
(when it deigns to work!)

Overheating on the Tube
 

John B wrote:
wrote:
See the first sentence, "aircon will be factory fitted in S-stock".

Your point being?


That it will no longer be the case that standing by an open inter-car
window will be the only way you can keep cool. Instead, there will be a
load of vents and grilles blowing cold air into the car in summer and
warm air in winter. This will mean that the ambience is pleasant,
rather than either tropical or frozen.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

Sorry, John, I've been away a while, and hence lost this thread's
continuation.

As, a subsequent poster has written: the problem with air conditioning
is that it very oten "gets it wrong" and you can feel far too cold in
Summer and vice versa in Winter. This is something I have frequently
experienced on Southern's new 377 / 375 stock on the Brighton line.

Give me proper passenger-regulated ventilation any day! A cool breeze
in Summer and a normal heater in Winter. These can be had for a
fraction of the cost and complication of air conditioning.

Marc.

Overheating on the Tube
 

John B wrote:


Couldn't agree more re poorly designed office AC systems. However, have
you travelled on the NYC subway / Madrid metro? In both cases, the AC
seems to work well at keeping the cars cool without creating much of a
draught. Hopefully Bombardier will take note of whatever systems are
used there when designing the S-stock.


That would be good. Experience with inter-city aircon doesn't fill me
with a lot of confidence 8-).

Francis

Overheating on the Tube
 

wrote:
Sorry, John, I've been away a while, and hence lost this thread's
continuation.

As, a subsequent poster has written: the problem with air conditioning
is that it very oten "gets it wrong" and you can feel far too cold in
Summer and vice versa in Winter. This is something I have frequently
experienced on Southern's new 377 / 375 stock on the Brighton line.

Give me proper passenger-regulated ventilation any day! A cool breeze
in Summer and a normal heater in Winter. These can be had for a
fraction of the cost and complication of air conditioning.


WRT surface stock, I'm agnostic: there are obvious benefits to
passenger-regulated ventilation, but also obvious negatives.

I find that SWT's Desiros have better temperature control than either
the 455s or the mk1 stock; I've only ever had temperature problems on
mk3 stock when the AC was broken (the last year of VWC operation,
pretty much exclusively); and problems on 158s and 166s have generally
only occured when some twit has opened the windows. I don't have much
Electrostar experience, though.

Underground is a different story - it's clear from making any journey
in the rush hour in summer, whether that's A, C or D stock, that
passenger-regulated ventilation isn't adequate.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

Overheating on the Tube
 

wrote in message

Just what I was going to say. I am required to wear suit etc while
appearing in court. That can be a pretty heavy load in hot weather, but
there's really no option.

While "In Court", yes, but I assume they have proper ventilation in
courthouses.
We are talking about one's journey to/from work/court.

Richard [in SG19]



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Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Overheating on the Tube
 

Richard M Willis wrote:
wrote in message

Just what I was going to say. I am required to wear suit etc while
appearing in court. That can be a pretty heavy load in hot weather, but
there's really no option.

While "In Court", yes, but I assume they have proper ventilation in
courthouses.
We are talking about one's journey to/from work/court.

Richard [in SG19]



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

I hear what you say, Richard, but there are three issues.

Firstly, I don't think that one's client would like to see one dressed
in a casual way and enter the Court building and then change (a la
David Cameron!).

Secondly, if appearing in the higher Courts we are already carrying a
set of robes, wig etc., not to mention books, files etc., so a change
of clothing would be virtually impossible to carry as well.

Thirdly, the lower Courts have no changing facilities, and most of the
higher Courts have unisex robing rooms, so one is unlikely to be able
to change one's clothes in privacy.

Marc.

Overheating on the Tube
 

On 21 Jun 2006 05:42:52 -0700, "
wrote:

Give me proper passenger-regulated ventilation any day! A cool breeze
in Summer and a normal heater in Winter. These can be had for a
fraction of the cost and complication of air conditioning.

Hmm. I've taken to waiting a few minutes later to catch the Heathrow
Connect (Ealing Broadway - Paddington) rather than the FGW train
because it's so much more pleasant.

Nice at 2230/2238, essential at 1214/1223.

--
James Farrar
. @gmail.com