http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/engla...on/5058362.stm

LU's managing director Tim O'Toole said: "There is no one overall
solution to heat on the Tube but significant progress is now being
made.

I thought that Tim O'Toole's solution was for everybody to take a
shower in the morning.

Kevin

Kev wrote:
http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/engla...on/5058362.stm

LU's managing director Tim O'Toole said: "There is no one overall
solution to heat on the Tube but significant progress is now being
made.

I thought that Tim O'Toole's solution was for everybody to take a
shower in the morning.

Kevin

I've been on underground lines in other countries that get as hot or
hotter than London does in the summer and have never noticed any undue
heat. I think a lot of it has to do with the original constuctions
methods. Some places such as Budapest and Paris are cut and cover, with
the stations not far below the surface. But both these were constructed
not long after London and I've never found them to be as hot as parts
of the District/Circle in high summer. The Paris stations are quite
large, but many of the Budapest one are rather small.
If you need to look at the difference, take a trip to Athens. Some of
the newer stations there are large and airy, airconditioned and with
wide platforms. The trains are larger than London tube trains as well,
and you never feel hot, despite the higher temperatures outside.
Obviously you cannot rebuild the entire LU, but if we are to get hotter
summers some though must be given to the comfort of passengers. The
stations on the Jubille Line extension are a good starting point.People
tend to remember an uncomfortable journey on a hot day for longer than
they do one on a cold day when the heat below ground is more welcoming.

Neill

Neillw001 wrote:
I've never found them to be as hot as parts
of the District/Circle in high summer.

The problem on the circle line seems to be all the heat coming from
under the seats

C! wrote:
Neillw001 wrote:
I've never found them to be as hot as parts
of the District/Circle in high summer.

The problem on the circle line seems to be all the heat coming from
under the seats

Yes, and the fact that none of the windows open. This is crazy! The
only stock with opening windows is the A60 and D78 - the more modern
stock does not (except a small bit of the end-doors).

It seems pure madness to have double-glazing throughout, for example,
on the C69/77 stock (Circle Line etc.) which is PURELY to house the
doors when they are open! More modern stock, e.g. 1992 stock on
Northern Line at least has the doors opening oustide the body, so no
double-glazing needed, but why did they not devise opening windows for
that stock?

I have today found out that on 1973 stock (Piccadilly Line), if one
sits on the VERY end seat, i.e. nearest the driver's bulkhead, a faint
stream of airconditioning breeze can be felt if one sits with one's
head right against the glass! I'll be corrected if I'm wrong, but I
think that this is the ONLY ventillated seat in driving carriages.

Marc.

wrote in message
ups.com...

C! wrote:
Neillw001 wrote:
I've never found them to be as hot as parts
of the District/Circle in high summer.

The problem on the circle line seems to be all the heat coming from
under the seats

Yes, and the fact that none of the windows open. This is crazy! The
only stock with opening windows is the A60 and D78 - the more modern
stock does not (except a small bit of the end-doors).

It seems pure madness to have double-glazing throughout, for example,
on the C69/77 stock (Circle Line etc.) which is PURELY to house the
doors when they are open! More modern stock, e.g. 1992 stock on
Northern Line at least has the doors opening oustide the body, so no
double-glazing needed, but why did they not devise opening windows for
that stock?

I have today found out that on 1973 stock (Piccadilly Line), if one
sits on the VERY end seat, i.e. nearest the driver's bulkhead, a faint
stream of airconditioning breeze can be felt if one sits with one's
head right against the glass! I'll be corrected if I'm wrong, but I
think that this is the ONLY ventillated seat in driving carriages.

Marc.


When has 92TS ran on the Northern Line?
Andrew

There was an item on the news last night about overheating on the tube - but
in the stations, not on the trains. Engineers at Victoria (and later on at
other stations which get very hot) will use the water that is pumped out of
the ground (which would otherwise flood the station) to cool the ambient air
in a heat exchanger. They quoted reductions of temperatures of about 5 deg
C - to 25 deg C.

But none of this addresses the problem of the trains themselves getting
unbearably hot, which mainly happens because so few windows on modern stock
can open so you don't get a draught through the train.

Yes, and the fact that none of the windows open. This is crazy! The
only stock with opening windows is the A60 and D78 - the more modern
stock does not (except a small bit of the end-doors).

Admit defeat on this one - don't know why. Suspect the nanny state over
the years.
Haven't looked, but do the refurbished D78s have opening windows ? And
I can't remember whether the Pic '72s had them before their
refurbishment. If so we can approximately date the likely change in
standards.


It seems pure madness to have double-glazing throughout, for example,
on the C69/77 stock (Circle Line etc.) which is PURELY to house the
doors when they are open! More modern stock, e.g. 1992 stock on
Northern Line at least has the doors opening oustide the body, so no
double-glazing needed, but why did they not devise opening windows for
that stock?

They are not double glazed, there are two panes of glass :O)
Not as daft as it sounds, there is no seal and quite some airflow, and
the temperature of the air in the cavity is effectively the same as the
outside.

The trend to outside hung doors has more to do with the gaining of a
couple of inches of space ...

I have today found out that on 1973 stock (Piccadilly Line), if one
sits on the VERY end seat, i.e. nearest the driver's bulkhead, a faint
stream of airconditioning breeze can be felt if one sits with one's
head right against the glass! I'll be corrected if I'm wrong, but I
think that this is the ONLY ventillated seat in driving carriages.

Most likely due to the fact that the driver's cab is air conditioned
(when it deigns to work!)

I think the problem with the District and Circle lines is they pass
Westminster. An awful lot of hot air eminates from there.

"C!" wrote in message
oups.com...

Neillw001 wrote:
I've never found them to be as hot as parts
of the District/Circle in high summer.

The problem on the circle line seems to be all the heat coming from
under the seats

Neillw001 wrote:

I've been on underground lines in other countries that get as hot or
hotter than London does in the summer and have never noticed any undue
heat. I think a lot of it has to do with the original constuctions
methods. Some places such as Budapest and Paris are cut and cover, with
the stations not far below the surface. But both these were constructed
not long after London and I've never found them to be as hot as parts
of the District/Circle in high summer. The Paris stations are quite
large, but many of the Budapest one are rather small.

Merseyrail is always pleasantly cool in summer, and I believe this is
in part down to groundwater - so the story on the BBC website about
cooling that may be helpful.

Neil