"This train is being held here awaiting signal clearance"
 

I've noticed this message being announced a lot in the last couple of
months or so whenever a train is stationary for more than a couple of
minutes (both on South Eastern and SWT). I know it's good that they
have instructed drivers to communicate with passengers, but surely this
doesn't actually tell anyone anything? The real question is why the
signal is red despite the train being on time (e.g. late train on other
branch, etc.).

Still, as the average train traveller probably barely knows signals
exist, judging by the generally unaware behaviour of many of my fellow
passengers*, maybe this is providing useful information after all...

Patrick

* My personal favourite being loud platform announcement "This train is
going to CHARING CROSS", combined with in-train sign "CHARING CROSS",
plus in-train announcement "This train is going to CHARING CROSS",
followed by passenger asking of fellow passengers, "Is this train going
to Charing Cross?".

"This train is being held here awaiting signal clearance"
 

wrote:
I've noticed this message being announced a lot in the last couple of
months or so whenever a train is stationary for more than a couple of
minutes (both on South Eastern and SWT). I know it's good that they
have instructed drivers to communicate with passengers, but surely this
doesn't actually tell anyone anything? The real question is why the
signal is red despite the train being on time (e.g. late train on other
branch, etc.).

Still, as the average train traveller probably barely knows signals
exist, judging by the generally unaware behaviour of many of my fellow
passengers*, maybe this is providing useful information after all...

Patrick

* My personal favourite being loud platform announcement "This train is
going to CHARING CROSS", combined with in-train sign "CHARING CROSS",
plus in-train announcement "This train is going to CHARING CROSS",
followed by passenger asking of fellow passengers, "Is this train going
to Charing Cross?".


More important than why the signal is red; what is the chance of the
cause being removed in the near future?

But all the information systems are based on where trains are, not on
where they are likely to go. Like when a broken down train at a place
deemed to be three minutes away continues to be shown as expected in
three minutes.

"This train is being held here awaiting signal clearance"
 

wrote:
I've noticed this message being announced a lot in the last couple of
months or so whenever a train is stationary for more than a couple of
minutes (both on South Eastern and SWT). I know it's good that they
have instructed drivers to communicate with passengers, but surely this
doesn't actually tell anyone anything? The real question is why the
signal is red despite the train being on time (e.g. late train on other
branch, etc.).

Still, as the average train traveller probably barely knows signals
exist, judging by the generally unaware behaviour of many of my fellow
passengers*, maybe this is providing useful information after all...

Patrick

* My personal favourite being loud platform announcement "This train is
going to CHARING CROSS", combined with in-train sign "CHARING CROSS",
plus in-train announcement "This train is going to CHARING CROSS",
followed by passenger asking of fellow passengers, "Is this train going
to Charing Cross?".

I does seem a very obvious statement. This train is held at red signal,
and I thought that the driver had stopped to admire the view, why else
would it be stopped.

Kevin

"This train is being held here awaiting signal clearance"
 

wrote:
I've noticed this message being announced a lot in the last couple of
months or so whenever a train is stationary for more than a couple of
minutes (both on South Eastern and SWT). I know it's good that they
have instructed drivers to communicate with passengers, but surely this
doesn't actually tell anyone anything? The real question is why the
signal is red despite the train being on time (e.g. late train on other
branch, etc.).

Still, as the average train traveller probably barely knows signals
exist, judging by the generally unaware behaviour of many of my fellow
passengers*, maybe this is providing useful information after all...

True. I regularly travel along the Cotswold line (Oxford - Worcester)
which has many single-track sections, but most passengers have no idea
that these exist, and are left wondering why the train has been stopped
for ten minutes in the middle of nowhere. Of course, they shouldn't be
expected to know that there are single track sections - but the train
manager should know that they don't know, and should make an
announcement to explain the delay!

Patrick

* My personal favourite being loud platform announcement "This train is
going to CHARING CROSS", combined with in-train sign "CHARING CROSS",
plus in-train announcement "This train is going to CHARING CROSS",
followed by passenger asking of fellow passengers, "Is this train going
to Charing Cross?".

Probably a symptom of the number of announcements that a passenger hears
on an average journey - there are so many that the mind blocks them out
as a matter of habit!

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

"This train is being held here awaiting signal clearance"
 

Dave Arquati wrote in message
:

I regularly travel along the Cotswold line (Oxford - Worcester)
which has many single-track sections, but most passengers have no idea
that these exist, and are left wondering why the train has been
stopped for ten minutes in the middle of nowhere. Of course, they
shouldn't be expected to know that there are single track sections -
but the train manager should know that they don't know, and should
make an announcement to explain the delay!

If only trains could leapfrog over each other on a single-track line, as in
the Heath Robinson cartoon! ;-)

* My personal favourite being loud platform announcement "This train
is going to CHARING CROSS", combined with in-train sign "CHARING
CROSS", plus in-train announcement "This train is going to CHARING
CROSS", followed by passenger asking of fellow passengers, "Is this
train going to Charing Cross?".

Probably a symptom of the number of announcements that a passenger
hears on an average journey - there are so many that the mind blocks
them out as a matter of habit!

And many announcements these days are either unintelligible (quiet or
distorted) or else mumbled in a strong foreign accent.

"This train is being held here awaiting signal clearance"
 

On 25 Jul 2006 01:22:10 -0700, wrote:

* My personal favourite being loud platform announcement "This train is
going to CHARING CROSS", combined with in-train sign "CHARING CROSS",
plus in-train announcement "This train is going to CHARING CROSS",
followed by passenger asking of fellow passengers, "Is this train going
to Charing Cross?".

Maybe he was from Glasgow, and confused?

The train I've just been on was being announced as going to Victoria.
Being a regular, I knew it was vastly more likely to be a London
Bridge train with that stock, at that time and in that place.

The automated announcements are all to often either irrelevent, so I
tune them out and miss any with real information in them, or just
plain wrong ("the next station is X" repeated at every station). The
human announcements have tortured phrasing and/or an accent I don't
personally understand once it has been through the PA system.

--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

"This train is being held here awaiting signal clearance"
 

"This train is being held here awaiting signal clearance"
 

In message .com,
writes

* My personal favourite being loud platform announcement "This train is
going to CHARING CROSS", combined with in-train sign "CHARING CROSS",
plus in-train announcement "This train is going to CHARING CROSS",
followed by passenger asking of fellow passengers, "Is this train going
to Charing Cross?".


You get this at Moorgate. A sign comes up saying the train on Platform 9
is for Letchworth. Then one of the staff clearly announces the train on
platform 9 is for Letchworth, several times in a loud clear voice.
Yet nearly every night someone will come up to me and ask if the train
is for Letchworth ??? No wonder people who deal with the public all day
go a bit weird :-)


--
Edward Cowling London UK

"This train is being held here awaiting signal clearance"
 

Edward Cowling London UK ) gurgled happily,
sounding much like they were saying :

* My personal favourite being loud platform announcement "This train is
going to CHARING CROSS", combined with in-train sign "CHARING CROSS",
plus in-train announcement "This train is going to CHARING CROSS",
followed by passenger asking of fellow passengers, "Is this train going
to Charing Cross?".

You get this at Moorgate. A sign comes up saying the train on Platform 9
is for Letchworth. Then one of the staff clearly announces the train on
platform 9 is for Letchworth, several times in a loud clear voice.
Yet nearly every night someone will come up to me and ask if the train
is for Letchworth ???

"No, mate, you've got the wrong train - this one's going to Letchworth"

Watching people try to figure out why the fast Met line train they're on
hasn't stopped at the station they wanted is usually good for a laugh, too.
Particularly where it's a couple, of whom one's been saying "No, I don't
think this one's stopping there" whilst the other's insistent it will...

"This train is being held here awaiting signal clearance"
 

Edward Cowling London UK wrote:
In message .com,
writes

* My personal favourite being loud platform announcement "This train is
going to CHARING CROSS", combined with in-train sign "CHARING CROSS",
plus in-train announcement "This train is going to CHARING CROSS",
followed by passenger asking of fellow passengers, "Is this train going
to Charing Cross?".


You get this at Moorgate. A sign comes up saying the train on Platform 9
is for Letchworth. Then one of the staff clearly announces the train on
platform 9 is for Letchworth, several times in a loud clear voice.
Yet nearly every night someone will come up to me and ask if the train
is for Letchworth ??? No wonder people who deal with the public all day
go a bit weird :-)


The passenger may be deaf, and needs to lip-read. In-train signs have
a nasty habit of being either broken or incorrect, as I have found to
my irritation on the Piccadilly Line - get on train in central London
advertising Heathrow as destination (both on the header and the
platform display), to find it merrily goes up the Uxbridge branch
*WITHOUT* announcements of a change of destination, or anything special
being said at Acton Town. The first time this happened to me, I
chalked it up to me being dozy, but the second time, having been
sensitised to the situation, I was Not Happy when Ealing Common hove
into view.

Trains on the Hounslow loop have similar problems, and as for
destination indicators on buses, there have been times in the past when
it would be more accurate to toss a coin than rely on the destination
indicator to tell you if the bus will terminate short on a route (as
50% are timetabled to do on one route I use).

People on the conveyance in question will frequently have a better idea
of the reality of the situation, so asking is a good idea, and not as
silly as it first appears. If I recall correctly, at one time Charing
Cross to Hastings trains actually all carried on to Ore, but you had to
'know' this, as it was not mentioned on announcements. Similarly, at
times if disruption, the train displays and auto-annoncmenets may say
the train is going to Charing Cross, but actually it is being diverted
to Cannon Street - and Digital Doris + the in-train displays are not
flexible enough to give out this information.

Things have improved radically from unintelligble sounds coming from PA
systems that are too soft or so loud they are emitting square waves, in
accents varying wildly from RP, and I applaud the improvement in
available information. However, I would not say the situation as
present is unimprovable.

Sid

"This train is being held here awaiting signal clearance"
 

In message .com, Kev
writes

Maybe they have a sight defect and arrived after the announcements were
made. It is not uncommon for people not to hear announcements clearly.
Why is it such a big issue to answer a passenger's query, no wonder the
the public who have to deal with public transport staff go a bit weird.


No I am a member of the travelling public. I get happily stood in a
corner reading my paper and yet people still leap on the train and ask
where it's going. I'd love to say "Helsinki mate," but I just sigh and
tell them Letchworth, just as the last 5 announcements and the board are
saying. This of course they don't get and just blink at you and wander
off to ask at least another three people before deciding that in all
probability it really is a Letchworth train :-)


--
Edward Cowling London UK

"This train is being held here awaiting signal clearance"
 

I was on the 1351 Kings Cross to Cambridge today, waiting for it to
go. A passenger/customer got on and asked me if the train was going to
Letchworth, "Yes, I am going there too!" I replied. I can see why
staff get frustrated, the person went on and asked two other people if
the train went to Letchworth!!! Hey, would I lie if I was going to
Letchworth!!

Lots of passengers are ignorant and disbelieving. I have seen staff
tell them where a train is going only to get a reply, "Are you
sure?"!!!!!!!

It doesn't matter how much information is put out about the
destination of a train, there will always be those that are so
ignorant they won't see it!

"This train is being held here awaiting signal clearance"
 

Edward Cowling London UK wrote:
In message .com, Kev
writes

Maybe they have a sight defect and arrived after the announcements were
made. It is not uncommon for people not to hear announcements clearly.
Why is it such a big issue to answer a passenger's query, no wonder the
the public who have to deal with public transport staff go a bit weird.


No I am a member of the travelling public. I get happily stood in a
corner reading my paper and yet people still leap on the train and ask
where it's going. I'd love to say "Helsinki mate," but I just sigh and
tell them Letchworth, just as the last 5 announcements and the board are
saying. This of course they don't get and just blink at you and wander
off to ask at least another three people before deciding that in all
probability it really is a Letchworth train :-)


--
Edward Cowling London UK
The number of times I have been on a southbound Northern line train
from Brent Cross with the ontrain display cleary showing that it is
going to Edgware. Then there is the fun and games at Camden with the
platform staff telling everybody that the this is a Bank train and the
driver saying ignore the platform staff, this is a Charing Cross train.
I guess somebody knows where it is going.

Kevin

"This train is being held here awaiting signal clearance"
 

Christine wrote:
I was on the 1351 Kings Cross to Cambridge today, waiting for it to
go. A passenger/customer got on and asked me if the train was going
to Letchworth, "Yes, I am going there too!" I replied. I can see
why staff get frustrated, the person went on and asked two other
people if the train went to Letchworth!!! Hey, would I lie if I
was going to Letchworth!!

Lots of passengers are ignorant ...

Perhaps that's why the passenger for Letchworth felt the need to take an
opinion poll rather than relying on a single passenger, who might have
been as ignorant as he was.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

"This train is being held here awaiting signal clearance"
 

Christine wrote:
Hey, would I lie if I was going to
Letchworth!!

Given Edward Cowling the answer may well be yes.

Kevin

"This train is being held here awaiting signal clearance"
 

Kev wrote:
Then there is the fun and games at Camden with the
platform staff telling everybody that the this is a Bank train and the
driver saying ignore the platform staff, this is a Charing Cross train.
I guess somebody knows where it is going.

A few weeks back, there was an PA system announcement at Camden Town
asking for a member of the cleaning team to go to a platform for a
'code 1 whatever that is'. Yes, HE said that (twice in fact).

What is a code 1? A rather obvious code for 'bomb scare' or 'someone
has thrown up'. Doesn't sound like control knew either!

I don't go to Camden much, but it seems as confusing now as it ever
was. No wonder it throws the tourists and other irregular travelers.

Jonathan

"This train is being held here awaiting signal clearance"
 

On 26 Jul 2006 11:24:39 -0700, Jonathan Morris wrote:

I don't go to Camden much, but it seems as confusing now as it ever
was. No wonder it throws the tourists and other irregular travelers.

If only they had put the junctions for the southbound lines to the
north of the station rather than the south, so that trains via Bank
and CX departed from separate platforms.

"This train is being held here awaiting signal clearance"
 

In article . com, Kev
writes
Then there is the fun and games at Camden with the
platform staff telling everybody that the this is a Bank train and the
driver saying ignore the platform staff, this is a Charing Cross train.

Camden Town southbound is really easy. Just look at the signal on the
headwall:

Green with white diagonal stripe: via Bank
Green with nothing else: via Charing Cross
Red: not moving

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

"This train is being held here awaiting signal clearance"
 

On 25 Jul 2006 01:22:10 -0700, wrote:

* My personal favourite being loud platform announcement "This train is
going to CHARING CROSS", combined with in-train sign "CHARING CROSS",
plus in-train announcement "This train is going to CHARING CROSS",
followed by passenger asking of fellow passengers, "Is this train going
to Charing Cross?".

To which the standard reply appears to be "I hope so"...

--
James Farrar
. @gmail.com