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Oyster Question
What zones does a prepay Oyster card cover?
Kevin |
Oyster Question
Kev wrote:
What zones does a prepay Oyster card cover? Kevin Er, all the London zones. But I think there may be some confusion here. Pre-Pay / Pay-as-you-go on Oyster (two names for the same thing) is a system where, as the name suggests, you pay as you go - i.e. you charge up your Oyster card with Pre-Pay credit, then for each journey you make the appropriate fare is deducted from your cards Pre-Pay balance. There are also daily price caps that apply if you make several journeys in one day. Which cap applies depends upon if you travel during the weekday morning peak (before 0930) or not, whether you travel by bus or by Underground, and if you travel by Undeground what zones you travel in. Daily capping thus provides a product similar to a one day Travelcard. *Very important point* Oyster Pre-Pay is not valid on National Rail (i.e. overground trains) apart from a few exceptions [1]. This is set to change but not for another couple of years at least. Any Oyster card can also be loaded with a weekly or longer Travelcard, in which case it can be used on National Rail within the zones that Travelcard covers. Thus there are not seperate types of Oyster cards, they are the same Oyster cards but just used in two different modes. It is also possible to combine these two modes during a single journey - i.e. combine a weekly or longer Travelcard loaded on an Oyster with Pre-Pay - if, for example, you had a zones 1-3 Travelcard on your Oyster, and you were travelling out to Heathrow on the Tube, then your Oyster card would automatically deduct the appropriate excess fare from zone 4 to zone 6 automatically from your Pre-Pay balance. This automatic facility only applies when using the Underground - as stated earlier apart from a few exceptions Pre-Pay is *not* valid on National Rail. If one needs to travel out of zone on National Rail one should buy a paper ticket extension first before travelling. I understand that at first glance it can look pretty confusing, but I decided I wouldn't oversimplify and have covered everything. If you have any more questions please ask away - alternatively if you want it from the horses mouth go to TfL's "Oyster help" website [2]. Below I've linked to the appropriate TfL fares pages on their website where you can find the relevant fares. ----- Oyster Pre-Pay fares for the Underground: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/fares-tick.../tubedlr.shtml Oyster Pre-Pay daily price caps that apply when travelling by Underground (and bus): http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/fares-tick...ubedlr-4.shtml Oyster Pre-Pay fares for buses: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/fares-tick...bustrams.shtml Oyster Pre-Pay daily price cap that applies when travelling by bus only: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/fares-tick...strams-4.shtml ----- [1] Oyster help answer - Limited Oyster Pre-Pay acceptance on National Rail http://snipurl.com/Oyster_Pre_Pay_on_NR [2] Oyster help front page http://transportforlondon.custhelp.com/ |
Oyster Question
Mizter T wrote: Kev wrote: What zones does a prepay Oyster card cover? Kevin Er, all the London zones. But I think there may be some confusion here. Pre-Pay / Pay-as-you-go on Oyster (two names for the same thing) is a system where, as the name suggests, you pay as you go - i.e. you charge up your Oyster card with Pre-Pay credit, then for each journey you make the appropriate fare is deducted from your cards Pre-Pay balance. There are also daily price caps that apply if you make several journeys in one day. Which cap applies depends upon if you travel during the weekday morning peak (before 0930) or not, whether you travel by bus or by Underground, and if you travel by Undeground what zones you travel in. Daily capping thus provides a product similar to a one day Travelcard. *Very important point* Oyster Pre-Pay is not valid on National Rail (i.e. overground trains) apart from a few exceptions [1]. This is set to change but not for another couple of years at least. Any Oyster card can also be loaded with a weekly or longer Travelcard, in which case it can be used on National Rail within the zones that Travelcard covers. Thus there are not seperate types of Oyster cards, they are the same Oyster cards but just used in two different modes. It is also possible to combine these two modes during a single journey - i.e. combine a weekly or longer Travelcard loaded on an Oyster with Pre-Pay - if, for example, you had a zones 1-3 Travelcard on your Oyster, and you were travelling out to Heathrow on the Tube, then your Oyster card would automatically deduct the appropriate excess fare from zone 4 to zone 6 automatically from your Pre-Pay balance. This automatic facility only applies when using the Underground - as stated earlier apart from a few exceptions Pre-Pay is *not* valid on National Rail. If one needs to travel out of zone on National Rail one should buy a paper ticket extension first before travelling. I understand that at first glance it can look pretty confusing, but I decided I wouldn't oversimplify and have covered everything. If you have any more questions please ask away - alternatively if you want it from the horses mouth go to TfL's "Oyster help" website [2]. Below I've linked to the appropriate TfL fares pages on their website where you can find the relevant fares. ----- Oyster Pre-Pay fares for the Underground: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/fares-tick.../tubedlr.shtml Oyster Pre-Pay daily price caps that apply when travelling by Underground (and bus): http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/fares-tick...ubedlr-4.shtml Oyster Pre-Pay fares for buses: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/fares-tick...bustrams.shtml Oyster Pre-Pay daily price cap that applies when travelling by bus only: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/fares-tick...strams-4.shtml ----- [1] Oyster help answer - Limited Oyster Pre-Pay acceptance on National Rail http://snipurl.com/Oyster_Pre_Pay_on_NR [2] Oyster help front page http://transportforlondon.custhelp.com/ The question on the LUL online complaint form says "What zone/s does your ticket cover?" And from drop down menue you have 2 1-2 1-3 1-4 1-5 1-6 2-3 2-4 2-5 2-6 3-4 3-5 3-6 4-5 4-6 5-6 6. I would have thought that the answer was not applicable for a prepay Oyster as 1-6 would not be correct as it excludes National Rail and is prepay Oyster not available to Watford or Amersham. I was expecting the complaint to be rejected if unanswered but it did accept it anyway. Kevin |
Oyster Question
Kev wrote:
Mizter T wrote: Kev wrote: What zones does a prepay Oyster card cover? Kevin Er, all the London zones. But I think there may be some confusion here. [snip] The question on the LUL online complaint form says "What zone/s does your ticket cover?" And from drop down menue you have 2 1-2 1-3 1-4 1-5 1-6 2-3 2-4 2-5 2-6 3-4 3-5 3-6 4-5 4-6 5-6 6. I would have thought that the answer was not applicable for a prepay Oyster as 1-6 would not be correct as it excludes National Rail and is prepay Oyster not available to Watford or Amersham. OK, so seeing as that question is not compulsory, don't select anything? Just make sure that you have selected 'Prepay' or whatever appropriate choice from the question two lines up, "What ticket do you hold?", and they should be able to work it out? I was expecting the complaint to be rejected if unanswered but it did accept it anyway. Only those questions with a red asterisk are mandatory. -- Larry Lard The address is real, but unread - please reply to the group |
Oyster Question
In reply to news post, which Kev wrote on Thu, 17 Aug
2006 - The question on the LUL online complaint form says "What zone/s does your ticket cover?" And from drop down menue you have 2 1-2 1-3 1-4 1-5 1-6 2-3 2-4 2-5 2-6 3-4 3-5 3-6 4-5 4-6 5-6 6. I would have thought that the answer was not applicable for a prepay Oyster as 1-6 would not be correct as it excludes National Rail and is prepay Oyster not available to Watford or Amersham. I was expecting the complaint to be rejected if unanswered but it did accept it anyway. Pre Pay can be used at Amersham, I use it. I have also purchased travel cards on my Oyster from zone 6D to 1 Matthew -- Matthew P Jones - www.amersham.org.uk My view of the Metropolitan Line www.metroland.org.uk - actually I like it Don't reply to it will not be read You can reply to knap AT Nildram dot co dot uk |
Oyster Question
Larry Lard wrote: Kev wrote: Mizter T wrote: Kev wrote: What zones does a prepay Oyster card cover? Kevin Er, all the London zones. But I think there may be some confusion here. [snip] The question on the LUL online complaint form says "What zone/s does your ticket cover?" And from drop down menue you have 2 1-2 1-3 1-4 1-5 1-6 2-3 2-4 2-5 2-6 3-4 3-5 3-6 4-5 4-6 5-6 6. I would have thought that the answer was not applicable for a prepay Oyster as 1-6 would not be correct as it excludes National Rail and is prepay Oyster not available to Watford or Amersham. OK, so seeing as that question is not compulsory, don't select anything? Just make sure that you have selected 'Prepay' or whatever appropriate choice from the question two lines up, "What ticket do you hold?", and they should be able to work it out? I was expecting the complaint to be rejected if unanswered but it did accept it anyway. Only those questions with a red asterisk are mandatory. -- Larry Lard The address is real, but unread - please reply to the group Still seems daft to ask what ticket type but then not have an equivalent zone, why not offer none or n/a. I could have been travelling on a Bristol to Norwich via London for all they knew, the claim for delay whilst on LUL must still be applicable. Kevin |
Oyster Question
Matthew P Jones wrote:
In reply to news post, which Kev wrote on Thu, 17 Aug 2006 - The question on the LUL online complaint form says "What zone/s does your ticket cover?" And from drop down menue you have 2 1-2 1-3 1-4 1-5 1-6 2-3 2-4 2-5 2-6 3-4 3-5 3-6 4-5 4-6 5-6 6. I would have thought that the answer was not applicable for a prepay Oyster as 1-6 would not be correct as it excludes National Rail and is prepay Oyster not available to Watford or Amersham. I was expecting the complaint to be rejected if unanswered but it did accept it anyway. Pre Pay can be used at Amersham, I use it. I have also purchased travel cards on my Oyster from zone 6D to 1 Matthew I think Kev's comment - "[...]is prepay Oyster not available to Watford or Amersham" - was rhetorical. He does indeed rightly point out that zones A-D are not available as choices on the drop-down menu on the LU complaints form - but I guess if they did feature they drop-down menu would be unmanageably long and would dissapear off the bottom of the page! |
Oyster Question
"Mizter T" wrote in message
oups.com Kev wrote: What zones does a prepay Oyster card cover? Kevin Er, all the London zones. But I think there may be some confusion here. snip *Very important point* Oyster Pre-Pay is not valid on National Rail (i.e. overground trains) apart from a few exceptions [1]. This is set to change but not for another couple of years at least. I wonder if Oyster can be used on Thameslink (aka FCC) between Wimbledon and Farringdon? It's obviously allowed on the Tube between the same stations, and the same Oyster card readers/barriers apply regardless of which train is taken, so the system won't know which route was followed. But would a ticket inspector on the FCC train regard it as a non-valid fare? |
Oyster Question
On Fri, 18 Aug 2006 10:50:51 +0100, "Nigel Pendse"
wrote: "Mizter T" wrote in message roups.com Kev wrote: What zones does a prepay Oyster card cover? Er, all the London zones. But I think there may be some confusion here. snip *Very important point* Oyster Pre-Pay is not valid on National Rail (i.e. overground trains) apart from a few exceptions [1]. This is set to change but not for another couple of years at least. I wonder if Oyster can be used on Thameslink (aka FCC) between Wimbledon and Farringdon? It's obviously allowed on the Tube between the same stations, and the same Oyster card readers/barriers apply regardless of which train is taken, so the system won't know which route was followed. But would a ticket inspector on the FCC train regard it as a non-valid fare? Judging by what happened to me on the North London Line last week, you'd be judged a non-valid fare. I was on my way back from Lord's to Kew via the Bakerloo and NLL, and there was a huge Silverlink and British Transport Police presence at Willesden Junction; when my prepay Oyster was read, I was made to go out through the barriers, get a single ticket and then come back in. Given that TfL will deduct a price equivalent to that of a one-day travelcard from the Oyster card, the fact that I can't use the bloody thing as a travelcard on a route that I'm extremely likely to use is becoming more and more of a pain. Angela |
Oyster Question
On Fri, 18 Aug 2006 12:04:12 +0100, Barry Salter
wrote: On Fri, 18 Aug 2006 10:50:51 +0100, "Nigel Pendse" wrote: I wonder if Oyster can be used on Thameslink (aka FCC) between Wimbledon and Farringdon? It's obviously allowed on the Tube between the same stations, and the same Oyster card readers/barriers apply regardless of which train is taken, so the system won't know which route was followed. But would a ticket inspector on the FCC train regard it as a non-valid fare? Nope. The list of NR routes on which PAYG Oyster is currently valid is currently as follows: snip As such, you'd be liable to a Penalty Fare if you did Wimbledon - Farringdon on FCC. How this would be policed solely through the barriers remains to be seen, however... Hmmm. Via the barriers probably isn't doable, but my pet hate: the ticket inspector with a hand-held Oyster card reader would certainly get you on the train. Angela |
Oyster Question
"Barry Salter" wrote in message
On Fri, 18 Aug 2006 10:50:51 +0100, "Nigel Pendse" wrote: I wonder if Oyster can be used on Thameslink (aka FCC) between Wimbledon and Farringdon? It's obviously allowed on the Tube between the same stations, and the same Oyster card readers/barriers apply regardless of which train is taken, so the system won't know which route was followed. But would a ticket inspector on the FCC train regard it as a non-valid fare? Nope. The list of NR routes on which PAYG Oyster is currently valid is currently as follows: Amersham - Marylebone Finsbury Park - Kings Cross/Moorgate Harrow & Wealdstone - Euston (except Kilburn High Road & Sth Hampstead) Kentish Town - Moorgate/Elephant & Castle/London Bridge Liverpool Street - Walthamstow Central/Tottenham Hale/Seven Sisters (but not intermediately) Richmond - Gunnersbury Stratford - Canning Town Stratford - Liverpool Street Upminster - Fenchurch Street/Liverpool Street via Barking (but not at Forest Gate or Maryland) West Ruislip/South Ruislip - Marylebone (but not intermediately) As such, you'd be liable to a Penalty Fare if you did Wimbledon - Farringdon on FCC. How this would be policed solely through the barriers remains to be seen, however... It's funny that they allow West Ruislip/South Ruislip - Marylebone but not Wimbledon - Farringdon, as these are both examples of identical Tube/Rail journeys where the Rail route happens to be quicker/more direct, but is otherwise no different. In the Chiltern case, of course, different barrier lines are used at Marylebone (so they can detect which train was used), but with the Farringdon example, the same barrier line applies regardless of route. The only way that a smart barrier could detect which route was used would be through journey time -- it would typically (but not always) be much quicker on the Thameslink route. |
Oyster Question
Ang Gilham wrote:
On Fri, 18 Aug 2006 10:50:51 +0100, "Nigel Pendse" wrote: "Mizter T" wrote: *Very important point* Oyster Pre-Pay is not valid on National Rail (i.e. overground trains) apart from a few exceptions [1]. This is set to change but not for another couple of years at least. I wonder if Oyster can be used on Thameslink (aka FCC) between Wimbledon and Farringdon? It's obviously allowed on the Tube between the same stations, and the same Oyster card readers/barriers apply regardless of which train is taken, so the system won't know which route was followed. But would a ticket inspector on the FCC train regard it as a non-valid fare? Judging by what happened to me on the North London Line last week, you'd be judged a non-valid fare. I was on my way back from Lord's to Kew via the Bakerloo and NLL, and there was a huge Silverlink and British Transport Police presence at Willesden Junction; when my prepay Oyster was read, I was made to go out through the barriers, get a single ticket and then come back in. Given that TfL will deduct a price equivalent to that of a one-day travelcard from the Oyster card, the fact that I can't use the bloody thing as a travelcard on a route that I'm extremely likely to use is becoming more and more of a pain. Angela It might be annoying, but the fact is that Oyster Pre-Pay is, as I said, only valid on a very limited number of National Rail routes - see the link below for the full list [1]. This is not TfL's fault - they have been pushing to get Oyster Pre-Pay valid on National Rail routes for a long time - it's because the intransigence of the Train Operating Companies (TOCs), and the SRA/Department for Transports lack of willingness to change this. However TfL's lobbying has paid off - if you read this press release [2] you'll see that in a couple of years we should have Pre-Pay acceptance across the National Rail network in London. And the good news for users of the North London Line is that this may well be implemented even sooner, as TfL is taking control of the NLL in 2007 (it's a bit more complicated than that - see the press release [3]) and they plan to make Oyster Pre-Pay available on that route. So whilst you'll just have to put up with it being a pain in the proverbial for the moment things are changing. [1] Oyster help answer - Limited Oyster Pre-Pay acceptance on National Rail http://snipurl.com/Oyster_Pre_Pay_on_NR [2] TfL press release - Transport Secretary and Mayor of London announce new Oyster deal http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-cent...t.asp?prID=776 [3] TfL press release - Mayor welcomes Tfl control of first London passenger rail services http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-cent...t.asp?prID=690 |
Oyster Question
Ang Gilham wrote:
On Fri, 18 Aug 2006 12:04:12 +0100, Barry Salter wrote: On Fri, 18 Aug 2006 10:50:51 +0100, "Nigel Pendse" wrote: I wonder if Oyster can be used on Thameslink (aka FCC) between Wimbledon and Farringdon? It's obviously allowed on the Tube between the same stations, and the same Oyster card readers/barriers apply regardless of which train is taken, so the system won't know which route was followed. But would a ticket inspector on the FCC train regard it as a non-valid fare? Nope. The list of NR routes on which PAYG Oyster is currently valid is currently as follows: snip As such, you'd be liable to a Penalty Fare if you did Wimbledon - Farringdon on FCC. How this would be policed solely through the barriers remains to be seen, however... Hmmm. Via the barriers probably isn't doable, but my pet hate: the ticket inspector with a hand-held Oyster card reader would certainly get you on the train. Perhaps it's a pet hate of yours but if someone did this it would count as fare evasion. Plus I have found FCC to be keener than other TOCs when it comes to having on-board ticket inspectors. Basically it comes down to thinking ahead - if you consider it probably that you'll use National Rail during the course of a days travels around London, you should buy a paper Day Travelcard at the beginning of that day and not use Pre-Pay whatsoever. Judging whether this is worthwhile when you're plans are uncertain might be difficult, but bear in mind before the advent of daily capping on Pre-Pay (in February 2005) it was a judgement that every traveller in London had to make - i.e. whether to buy a Day Travelcard or pay cash for each journey. |
Oyster Question
Nigel Pendse wrote:
"Barry Salter" wrote: As such, you'd be liable to a Penalty Fare if you did Wimbledon - Farringdon on FCC. How this would be policed solely through the barriers remains to be seen, however... (snip) The only way that a smart barrier could detect which route was used would be through journey time -- it would typically (but not always) be much quicker on the Thameslink route. I don't think it can be policed through the barriers - and relying on a time difference wouldnt work as there are x number of variables that might mean FCC journeys take longer (delays on the route, passenger misses their train as they're on the wrong platform etc etc). However as I said elsewhere on this thread my experience is that FCC are quite keen on on-board ticket inspections - so a passenger could end up £20 lighter should they try and use Pre-Pay on FCC/Thameslink from Wimbledon to Farringdon. |
Oyster Question
Nigel Pendse wrote:
"Barry Salter" wrote in message On Fri, 18 Aug 2006 10:50:51 +0100, "Nigel Pendse" wrote: I wonder if Oyster can be used on Thameslink (aka FCC) between Wimbledon and Farringdon? It's obviously allowed on the Tube between the same stations, and the same Oyster card readers/barriers apply regardless of which train is taken, so the system won't know which route was followed. But would a ticket inspector on the FCC train regard it as a non-valid fare? Nope. The list of NR routes on which PAYG Oyster is currently valid is currently as follows: Amersham - Marylebone Finsbury Park - Kings Cross/Moorgate Harrow & Wealdstone - Euston (except Kilburn High Road & Sth Hampstead) Kentish Town - Moorgate/Elephant & Castle/London Bridge Liverpool Street - Walthamstow Central/Tottenham Hale/Seven Sisters (but not intermediately) Richmond - Gunnersbury Stratford - Canning Town Stratford - Liverpool Street Upminster - Fenchurch Street/Liverpool Street via Barking (but not at Forest Gate or Maryland) West Ruislip/South Ruislip - Marylebone (but not intermediately) As such, you'd be liable to a Penalty Fare if you did Wimbledon - Farringdon on FCC. How this would be policed solely through the barriers remains to be seen, however... It's funny that they allow West Ruislip/South Ruislip - Marylebone but not Wimbledon - Farringdon, as these are both examples of identical Tube/Rail journeys where the Rail route happens to be quicker/more direct, but is otherwise no different. In the Chiltern case, of course, different barrier lines are used at Marylebone (so they can detect which train was used), but with the Farringdon example, the same barrier line applies regardless of route. The only way that a smart barrier could detect which route was used would be through journey time -- it would typically (but not always) be much quicker on the Thameslink route. The Ruislips to Marylebone is an oddity, because it's valid on PAYG but *not* for paper Tube single tickets. That's also true for Harrow & Wealdstone to Kenton (I think), and the reverse policy applies to the entire North London Line and the West London Line as far south as West Brompton. It's a bit of a mess, really... -- Dave Arquati Imperial College, SW7 www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London |
Oyster Question
Dave Arquati wrote:
Nigel Pendse wrote: (snip) It's funny that they allow West Ruislip/South Ruislip - Marylebone but not Wimbledon - Farringdon, as these are both examples of identical Tube/Rail journeys where the Rail route happens to be quicker/more direct, but is otherwise no different. In the Chiltern case, of course, different barrier lines are used at Marylebone (so they can detect which train was used), but with the Farringdon example, the same barrier line applies regardless of route. The only way that a smart barrier could detect which route was used would be through journey time -- it would typically (but not always) be much quicker on the Thameslink route. The Ruislips to Marylebone is an oddity, because it's valid on PAYG but *not* for paper Tube single tickets. That's also true for Harrow & Wealdstone to Kenton (I think), and the reverse policy applies to the entire North London Line and the West London Line as far south as West Brompton. It's a bit of a mess, really... If you're going from H&W to Kenton and buying a paper ticket then the fare is set by the National Rail TOC - i.e. Silverlink. AIUI this is for historical reasons - in days gone by a much longer stretch of the north end of the Bakerloo lines had it's fares set by National Rail/ British Rail - I think it might have been from Queens Park up to H&W. I'm not quite sure what happens if you buy a single from H&W to Elephant and Castle - is it a H&W to Kenton fare bolted on to a LU zonal fare? Pre-Pay is also valid on Silverlink from H&W to Euston, either on the stopping Metro trains or on the non-stop County trains. I travelled this way once during the rush hour and arrived at a platform on western side of Euston which it would seem is only used by Silverlink during the rush hour - and after keeping my eyes peeled I spotted a lone Oyster reader (without any associated signage) strapped to a column. It would've been pretty easy to miss. Anyway this is also a route where paper Tube tickets are not valid - not least because I don't think you can get a normal zonal Tube ticket from H&W to points south (see above query). Lastly I see you're now referring to Oyster Pre-Pay as Oyster PAYG - I guess as this is the terminology that TfL has adopted perhaps I should adopt it too when posting here. It is somewhat more self-explanatory, and of course is a term that's in common use courtesy of mobile phones. I presume that the term Pre-Pay continues to be used internally on ticketing systems, but UIVMM it's also still used in customer facing situations such as on self-service ticket machines and on the blue signage that accompanies Oyster readers ("Pre Pay users touch in here" or something similar). Thus TfL's flagship ticketing product appears to have a bit of an identity crisis - given that there's already a good deal of public confusion about the system, it should at least have a clear single name. |
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