I seem to remember reading that during certain times, all stops operate
by request, but I can't find such information on TfL's Buses site.

But on my recent visit to London, I was observing buses at a compulsory
stop in Holborn - all Arriva buses simply sailed past the stop (yes,
those buses *Do* stop there), and all (former) Stagecoach buses did stop.

Are all stops now request stops 24Hr/day, or are some companies
enforcing the rules more strictly than others?
--
The presence of this signature shows that this message has been scanned
for misplaced apostrophes by the common sense scanner. However, some
apostrophes may not be included where required due to boredom, gross
negligence, budget cuts, incompetence, stupidity or just plain laziness.
http://www.railwaysonline.co.uk

Joe Patrick ty ped


I seem to remember reading that during certain times, all stops operate
by request, but I can't find such information on TfL's Buses site.

But on my recent visit to London, I was observing buses at a compulsory
stop in Holborn - all Arriva buses simply sailed past the stop (yes,
those buses *Do* stop there), and all (former) Stagecoach buses did stop.

Are all stops now request stops 24Hr/day, or are some companies
enforcing the rules more strictly than others?

IME if you do not treat all bus stops as request stops all the time, you
will either miss your bus or your stop.

My partner was on a bus that did not stop as it passed the bus station
at Harrow on the Hill. He had intended to change buses there, assumed
the bus would stop and had a nasty shock & long walk.

Night Buses treat all stops as request stops anyway.

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.

Helen Deborah Vecht wrote:

Joe Patrick ty ped


I seem to remember reading that during certain times, all stops operate
by request, but I can't find such information on TfL's Buses site.

But on my recent visit to London, I was observing buses at a compulsory
stop in Holborn - all Arriva buses simply sailed past the stop (yes,
those buses *Do* stop there), and all (former) Stagecoach buses did stop.

Are all stops now request stops 24Hr/day, or are some companies
enforcing the rules more strictly than others?

IME if you do not treat all bus stops as request stops all the time, you
will either miss your bus or your stop.

My partner was on a bus that did not stop as it passed the bus station
at Harrow on the Hill. He had intended to change buses there, assumed
the bus would stop and had a nasty shock & long walk.

Night Buses treat all stops as request stops anyway.


Joe - as Helen says officially speaking it's only night buses that
don't stop unrequested at compulsory stops. As Helen also says it's
always worthwhile to hail the bus/ ring the bell during the day anyway
- it's not much effort anyway! Some bus drivers do slow down for
compulsory stops but if there's no-one at said stop - or no-one looking
keen to get on, and no-one at the exit door of the bus they just carry
on.

I don't quite know how things work now that many of the night buses
that exactly follow the routes of their daytime equivalents have lost
their 'N' prefix and have instead been subsumed into 24-hour a day
routes - perhaps there's some official timescale that defines when they
should & shouldn't adhere to compulsory stops. But forget the theory -
stick out your hand/ ding the bell whatever!

The practice in some other parts of the country seems to be the
complete opposite - at least when it comes to hailing the bus at a bus
stop. In Newcastle for example no-one seemed interested in sticking
their hand out, and lo and behold the bus would stop nontheless - there
was a visual clue to the driver of people shuffling towards the kerb.
Despite a few posters up in buses trying to encourage people to stick
their hand out, on subsequent journeys I fell into line with the local
practice rather than stick out like a sore thumb! I think I've observed
a similar lack of enthusiam for hailing in other parts of the country,
though perhaps not quite as pronounced.

Who would've thought there could be so much to say about hailing a bus
- well, at least I'm getting it out of my system here rather than using
it as a sparkling (ahem) conversation topic when out with friends - I
think they'd be giving doing the real world equivalent of killfiling
me! ;-)

On 19 Aug 2006 17:18:19 -0700, "Mizter T" wrote:

Helen Deborah Vecht wrote:

Joe Patrick ty ped


I seem to remember reading that during certain times, all stops operate
by request, but I can't find such information on TfL's Buses site.

But on my recent visit to London, I was observing buses at a compulsory
stop in Holborn - all Arriva buses simply sailed past the stop (yes,
those buses *Do* stop there), and all (former) Stagecoach buses did stop.

Are all stops now request stops 24Hr/day, or are some companies
enforcing the rules more strictly than others?

Compliance with this rule is decidedly haphazard. I think it is
something that needs to be sorted out - especially as there can be so
many buses at stops that if they did not queue up and wait their turn it
is impossible for people to hail the bus they want. This is particularly
true if it is the last bus that then decides to whizz past everything
already at the stop.

Buses form an orderly queue in Hong Kong so that every bus lines up at
its stop. This can cause considerable delays in you are on a very busy
corridor but it is extremely rare that people miss a bus in HK if they
are in a queue or at a stop - the bus will pull in. I have to say it is
very reassuring; in London we have the worst of all options as it is a
complete lottery.

IME if you do not treat all bus stops as request stops all the time, you
will either miss your bus or your stop.

This is the only way round it. However I have witnessed two instances in
a week where people were at a stop, hailed the bus and in both cases the
bus drove straight pass for no good reason. Both were Arriva
interestingly.

I don't quite know how things work now that many of the night buses
that exactly follow the routes of their daytime equivalents have lost
their 'N' prefix and have instead been subsumed into 24-hour a day
routes - perhaps there's some official timescale that defines when they
should & shouldn't adhere to compulsory stops. But forget the theory -
stick out your hand/ ding the bell whatever!

There is a rule but I cannot remember it.

The practice in some other parts of the country seems to be the
complete opposite - at least when it comes to hailing the bus at a bus
stop. In Newcastle for example no-one seemed interested in sticking
their hand out, and lo and behold the bus would stop nontheless - there
was a visual clue to the driver of people shuffling towards the kerb.
Despite a few posters up in buses trying to encourage people to stick
their hand out, on subsequent journeys I fell into line with the local
practice rather than stick out like a sore thumb! I think I've observed
a similar lack of enthusiam for hailing in other parts of the country,
though perhaps not quite as pronounced.

I'm very surprised by the comment about Newcastle. The only compulsory
stops I can think of are in bus stations - which is a bit obvious
anyway. Having been brought up there I always stuck my hand out for a
bus - regardless of operator. Perhaps the desperate search for
passengers brought on by deregulation has changed behaviours in that
buses will stop to see if anyone wants to board a bus rather than
running the risk of leaving people behind?
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 Paul Corfield wrote:

Buses form an orderly queue in Hong Kong so that every bus lines up at
its stop. This can cause considerable delays

What we can look forward to on Uxbridge Road if the West London Tram
ever goes ahead.
--
Thoss

On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 10:13:30 +0100, Paul Corfield
wrote:

I'm very surprised by the comment about Newcastle. The only compulsory
stops I can think of are in bus stations - which is a bit obvious
anyway. Having been brought up there I always stuck my hand out for a
bus - regardless of operator. Perhaps the desperate search for
passengers brought on by deregulation has changed behaviours in that
buses will stop to see if anyone wants to board a bus rather than
running the risk of leaving people behind?

It's a while since I lived in Newcastle, and a couple of years since I
visited, but my recollection is that all stops are request stops.
However, bus drivers were capable of noticing passengers at the stop
and slowing down anyway - you often had to back away from the kerb if
you didn't want the wrong bus to stop.

I've always treated London bus-stops as Request, in fact I didn't
realise there were still compulsory stops, apart from terminals. But
then I've always done most of my London bus travelling in and around
Kingston and I'm not sure if suburban bus routes are run the same way
as central London.

On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 10:49:39 GMT, Phil Clark
wrote:

On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 10:13:30 +0100, Paul Corfield
wrote:

I'm very surprised by the comment about Newcastle. The only compulsory
stops I can think of are in bus stations - which is a bit obvious
anyway. Having been brought up there I always stuck my hand out for a
bus - regardless of operator. Perhaps the desperate search for
passengers brought on by deregulation has changed behaviours in that
buses will stop to see if anyone wants to board a bus rather than
running the risk of leaving people behind?

It's a while since I lived in Newcastle, and a couple of years since I
visited, but my recollection is that all stops are request stops.

That would be mine too.

However, bus drivers were capable of noticing passengers at the stop
and slowing down anyway - you often had to back away from the kerb if
you didn't want the wrong bus to stop.

This is how it used to be - I've certainly done the stepping back thing.
However I was surprised by the "people never put their hand out" part of
Mr T's post.

I've always treated London bus-stops as Request, in fact I didn't
realise there were still compulsory stops, apart from terminals. But
then I've always done most of my London bus travelling in and around
Kingston and I'm not sure if suburban bus routes are run the same way
as central London.

There has been a thinning out of compulsory stops but they exist all
over London and are not just a central London item. I'd imagine most of
the stops in Central Kingston would be compulsory - white background
with red roundel rather than request - red background and white roundel
on the flag. I'd also say main stops in places like Surbiton, Raynes
Park etc would be compulsory ones too.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Phil Clark wrote:

On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 10:13:30 +0100, Paul Corfield
wrote:

I'm very surprised by the comment about Newcastle. The only compulsory
stops I can think of are in bus stations - which is a bit obvious
anyway. Having been brought up there I always stuck my hand out for a
bus - regardless of operator. Perhaps the desperate search for
passengers brought on by deregulation has changed behaviours in that
buses will stop to see if anyone wants to board a bus rather than
running the risk of leaving people behind?

It's a while since I lived in Newcastle, and a couple of years since I
visited, but my recollection is that all stops are request stops.
However, bus drivers were capable of noticing passengers at the stop
and slowing down anyway - you often had to back away from the kerb if
you didn't want the wrong bus to stop.

Paul C - so you're a geordie then. I've an affinity for the Toon, it's
a fascinating place.

My comments regarding the non-hailing of buses up there shouldn't be
taken as authoratative - but Phil's recollection does back up what I
remember seeing - drivers seemed to stop if you looked at all likely
like you wanted to catch their bus. I guess as a result of that
people's behaviour when waiting at stops could thus have changed - why
hail a bus if it's going to stop anyway. Like Phil I also remember
people stepping back from the kerb so the wrong bus wouldn't stop.

I have seen a sort of similar thing happen in London - at more remote
stops, on hoppa style 'all around the houses' bus routes or night buses
out in the suburbs - where drivers slow down at request stops even if
no-one's definitely hailing a bus, but I think that's more out of
courtesy to give waiting passengers (who might be in a
daydream/reading/drunk) a chance to register there's a bus approaching.

Back to the north east for a moment - you might be amused to hear that
Nexus (the name the Tyne & Wear PTE now uses) along with the bus
companies developed a special 'Superoute' brand for services that
"deliver frequent, high quality services along key routes" [1]. It was
a name which entertained me given the frequency of these supposed
Superoutes which are "guaranteed to run at least every 30 minutes"
during the day - not quite so 'Super' IMO! To be fair many did run more
frequently than that during the day, but nontheless I don't think TfL
wouldn't describe a half-hourly service as frequent.

I've always treated London bus-stops as Request, in fact I didn't
realise there were still compulsory stops, apart from terminals. But
then I've always done most of my London bus travelling in and around
Kingston and I'm not sure if suburban bus routes are run the same way
as central London.

The bus stop sign indicates what type of stop it is.
Red roundel on white background - compulsory stop.
White roundel on red background - request stop.

However unless you're the type of person who's particularly keen on
engineering a confrontation so you can get into a lather of righteous
outrage at how 'the system doesn't work' then it's best to treat every
stop as a request stop.


[1] http://www.superoute.com/service.htm

Paul Corfield wrote:

On 19 Aug 2006 17:18:19 -0700, "Mizter T" wrote:

Helen Deborah Vecht wrote:

Joe Patrick ty ped


I seem to remember reading that during certain times, all stops operate
by request, but I can't find such information on TfL's Buses site.

But on my recent visit to London, I was observing buses at a compulsory
stop in Holborn - all Arriva buses simply sailed past the stop (yes,
those buses *Do* stop there), and all (former) Stagecoach buses did stop.

Are all stops now request stops 24Hr/day, or are some companies
enforcing the rules more strictly than others?

Compliance with this rule is decidedly haphazard. I think it is
something that needs to be sorted out - especially as there can be so
many buses at stops that if they did not queue up and wait their turn it
is impossible for people to hail the bus they want. This is particularly
true if it is the last bus that then decides to whizz past everything
already at the stop.

Buses form an orderly queue in Hong Kong so that every bus lines up at
its stop. This can cause considerable delays in you are on a very busy
corridor but it is extremely rare that people miss a bus in HK if they
are in a queue or at a stop - the bus will pull in. I have to say it is
very reassuring; in London we have the worst of all options as it is a
complete lottery.


Yes, whilst I make sure the driver of the bus semi-hidden behind other
buses stops and lets me on I'm aware others don't necessariy have my
mobility (or menacing glare!) and in such a situation I've seen buses
whizz past passengers who wanted to get on them.

That said I'm not sure how well the "considerable delays" would go down
here should they all queue up ala Hong Kong. One bus overtaking others
at a stop does mean that the load of passengers gets dispersed somewhat
amongst all the buses, rather than the front one ending up crammed.
Nontheless drivers could be a bit more considerate though.

Paul Corfield wrote:

I'm very surprised by the comment about Newcastle. The only compulsory
stops I can think of are in bus stations - which is a bit obvious
anyway.

In Milton Keynes the drivers must be psychic - the majority of
passengers seem not to signal for the bus to stop *in hail and ride
areas* - standing and looking like you are waiting for a bus seems
enough.

In German cities all stops tend to be compulsory stops - the bus will
stop unless you clearly signal it *not* to. This is far better in city
centres, where the irresponsible overtaking of buses by buses causes
people to miss their correct bus all the time.

Neil