South Kensington to Heathrow Terminal 3 on Tuesday
 

I have an 11:55 flight to New York out of Heathrow Terminal 3 on
Tuesday. How much time should I give myself to get there, considering
the planned shutdown of the Piccadilly line west of Hatton Cross?

I will have luggage, although I should be able to carry it up the 33
steps at Hatton Cross with some difficulty. I'm still worried about
time. Do the buses tend to be overcrowded or should I be able to fit
on the first one that pulls up? And do they tend to get stuck in
traffic? The posters in stations advise passengers to allow an extra
20 minutes; is that realistic? Exactly where in the train should I be
to be closest to the exit at Hatton Cross? (No, I don't have the Way
Out book.)

Somebody suggested the 111 bus from Hounslow East instead. That will
avoid the steps and probably the crowds, but from what I can see, the
111 takes a while to reach the airport. Having already missed a flight
last year out of LCY due to a bus that took just a wee bit longer than
I had expected, I think I'll pass.

I'd rather avoid Heathrow Express and Heathrow Connect. (Why aren't
Underground tickets, including Oyster, valid on HE and HC during these
outages?)

Also, for anybody who's flown out of Heathrow lately -- should I be
aiming to be at the airport about three hours before the flight or is
that overkill?

And why is this outage taking place in the middle of the week
(immediately following a holiday weekend, yet!) in the first place? At
first I thought it was necessary to allow the line to Terminal 4 to
reopen on 1 September. But according to the latest batch of posters,
the line to Terminal 4 isn't reopening until later in the month!

South Kensington to Heathrow Terminal 3 on Tuesday
 

David of Broadway wrote:
I have an 11:55 flight to New York out of Heathrow Terminal 3 on
Tuesday. How much time should I give myself to get there,
considering the planned shutdown of the Piccadilly line west of
Hatton Cross?

I should reckon on the journey from arrival at South Ken to arrival at
T3 taking 90 minutes, based on timings from the TfL Journey Planner
(which knows about the shutdown).

I will have luggage, although I should be able to carry it up the 33
steps at Hatton Cross with some difficulty.

There are porters available at Hatton Cross who will carry it up the
stairs for you if you wish.

I'm still worried about time. Do the buses tend to be overcrowded
or should I be able to fit on the first one that pulls up? And do
they tend to get stuck in traffic?

Don't know, because the buses to T123 will have many more passengers
than the existing ones to T4. Depends how many extra buses they manage
to lay on.

The posters in stations advise passengers to allow an
extra 20 minutes; is that realistic? Exactly where in the train
should I be to be closest to the exit at Hatton Cross? (No, I
don't have the Way Out book.)

The Journey Planner indicates that some journeys will need an extra 30
minutes. There are two exits from the platform, one near the back of the
train and one near the middle, as far as I remember.

Somebody suggested the 111 bus from Hounslow East instead. That
will avoid the steps and probably the crowds, but from what I can
see, the 111 takes a while to reach the airport. Having already
missed a flight last year out of LCY due to a bus that took just a
wee bit longer than I had expected, I think I'll pass.

I'd rather avoid Heathrow Express and Heathrow Connect. (Why aren't
Underground tickets, including Oyster, valid on HE and HC during
these outages?)

Probably because BAA wouldn't play ball. The HEx/HC line into the
airport is BAA's private railway, they own HEx and have a share in HC
with First GW.

Also, for anybody who's flown out of Heathrow lately -- should I be
aiming to be at the airport about three hours before the flight or
is that overkill?

Ask your airline, unless anyone else knows.

And why is this outage taking place in the middle of the week
(immediately following a holiday weekend, yet!) in the first place?

Because, say LU, at this time of year the airport is busier at weekends.

At first I thought it was necessary to allow the line to Terminal 4
to reopen on 1 September. But according to the latest batch of
posters, the line to Terminal 4 isn't reopening until later in the
month!

17 September I believe.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

South Kensington to Heathrow Terminal 3 on Tuesday
 

Richard J. wrote:
David of Broadway wrote:
I have an 11:55 flight to New York out of Heathrow Terminal 3 on
Tuesday. How much time should I give myself to get there,
considering the planned shutdown of the Piccadilly line west of
Hatton Cross?

I should reckon on the journey from arrival at South Ken to arrival at
T3 taking 90 minutes, based on timings from the TfL Journey Planner
(which knows about the shutdown).

But the TfL Journey Planner doesn't know about the potential for
overcrowded buses.

And it's not like I can politely ask others to let me go first, since I
have a flight to catch -- presumably they also have flights to catch,
since they're also going through the same trouble I am.

I will have luggage, although I should be able to carry it up the 33
steps at Hatton Cross with some difficulty.

There are porters available at Hatton Cross who will carry it up the
stairs for you if you wish.

And if I see one, I will certainly allow him to assist!

I'm still worried about time. Do the buses tend to be overcrowded
or should I be able to fit on the first one that pulls up? And do
they tend to get stuck in traffic?

Don't know, because the buses to T123 will have many more passengers
than the existing ones to T4. Depends how many extra buses they manage
to lay on.

According to the email from TfL, headways are 5-15 minutes (how
incredibly vague!). I have no idea if that's sufficient. Anybody
know?

Also, on a different note, the email says that the bus will drop me off
at Terminal 2. How long a walk is it from there to Terminal 3? Or is
there another bus I should take?

The posters in stations advise passengers to allow an
extra 20 minutes; is that realistic? Exactly where in the train
should I be to be closest to the exit at Hatton Cross? (No, I
don't have the Way Out book.)

The Journey Planner indicates that some journeys will need an extra 30
minutes. There are two exits from the platform, one near the back of the
train and one near the middle, as far as I remember.

Do you know which one is closer to the bus stop?

Probably because BAA wouldn't play ball. The HEx/HC line into the
airport is BAA's private railway, they own HEx and have a share in HC
with First GW.

I obviously wouldn't expect BAA to do it for nothing. But TfL could
(and should, in my opinion) have offered compensation.

In some past outages, Travelcards have been valid on HEx. Now, I do
think it's a little bit ridiculous to require a Travelcard (why would
somebody who's making a single trip to the airport, especially before
9:30, have any use for a Travelcard?), but it's still a lot better than
nothing.

Also, for anybody who's flown out of Heathrow lately -- should I be
aiming to be at the airport about three hours before the flight or
is that overkill?

Ask your airline, unless anyone else knows.

I'm asking here to see if anyone else knows!

My airline (AA) says 2 hours. Given the security issues, that seems on
the short side. Or am I just paranoid?

And why is this outage taking place in the middle of the week
(immediately following a holiday weekend, yet!) in the first place?

Because, say LU, at this time of year the airport is busier at weekends.

Hmmm, I suppose that makes some sense. But why immediately following a
holiday weekend? Don't some people delay their returns until after
Bank Holiday? (An honest question -- as an American, I don't know
British travel customs. In the U.S., lots of people extend their
holiday weekends.) And, aside from Bank Holiday in particular, doesn't
travel drop off substantially as September progresses? So why not do
it later in the month?

Thanks.

South Kensington to Heathrow Terminal 3 on Tuesday
 

On 26 Aug 2006 17:22:15 -0700, "David of Broadway"
wrote:

Also, for anybody who's flown out of Heathrow lately -- should I be
aiming to be at the airport about three hours before the flight or is
that overkill?

BAA were suggesting (as a general guide) 3 hours for international flights even
before the War on Moisture was declared, and it remains 3 hours still. Take
BAA's and AA's suggested times and split the difference? In any case, don't
arrive too early, as this increases congestion for everyone else.

South Kensington to Heathrow Terminal 3 on Tuesday
 

In message .com,
David of Broadway writes

And why is this outage taking place in the middle of the week
(immediately following a holiday weekend, yet!) in the first place? At
first I thought it was necessary to allow the line to Terminal 4 to
reopen on 1 September. But according to the latest batch of posters,
the line to Terminal 4 isn't reopening until later in the month!

New timetable (including the return to T4) comes in on 17 September.

The 3 day closure is to allow all the new signalling to be installed and
tested as much was disconnected and removed when the loop was closed.
This also includes the extra stuff for the T5 extension.
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)

South Kensington to Heathrow Terminal 3 on Tuesday
 

David of Broadway wrote:
Richard J. wrote:
David of Broadway wrote:

I'm still worried about time. Do the buses tend to be overcrowded
or should I be able to fit on the first one that pulls up? And do
they tend to get stuck in traffic?

Don't know, because the buses to T123 will have many more
passengers than the existing ones to T4. Depends how many extra
buses they manage to lay on.

According to the email from TfL, headways are 5-15 minutes (how
incredibly vague!). I have no idea if that's sufficient. Anybody
know?

Hmm. Since the trains are every 5 minutes for most of the day, I would
hope they would match that frequency, but of course the capacity of one
bus is a lot less than that of a train. My limited experience of
observing the T4 service is that they got it about right, if that's any
reassurance.

Also, on a different note, the email says that the bus will drop me
off at Terminal 2. How long a walk is it from there to Terminal 3?
Or is there another bus I should take?

It's around 5 to 10 minutes, all underground and much of it on
travolators. The LU shuttle bus drops off at T2, but if you catch a
285, say, it will take you to the central bus station, about half way
between T2 and T3.

The posters in stations advise passengers to allow an
extra 20 minutes; is that realistic? Exactly where in the train
should I be to be closest to the exit at Hatton Cross? (No, I
don't have the Way Out book.)

The Journey Planner indicates that some journeys will need an
extra 30 minutes. There are two exits from the platform, one near
the back of the train and one near the middle, as far as I
remember.

Do you know which one is closer to the bus stop?

Same distance, because both converge on the same stairs into the ticket
hall. The bus station is right outside, and includes both the special
buses and the normal services.

Probably because BAA wouldn't play ball. The HEx/HC line into the
airport is BAA's private railway, they own HEx and have a share in
HC with First GW.

I obviously wouldn't expect BAA to do it for nothing. But TfL could
(and should, in my opinion) have offered compensation.

In some past outages, Travelcards have been valid on HEx. Now, I do
think it's a little bit ridiculous to require a Travelcard (why
would somebody who's making a single trip to the airport,
especially before 9:30, have any use for a Travelcard?), but it's
still a lot better than nothing.

That applied during engineering works that stopped the Piccadilly at
Hyde Park Corner. The rule was probably because LU wanted to get
sufficient revenue to set against the exorbitant charges that BAA made.

[..]
And why is this outage taking place in the middle of the week
(immediately following a holiday weekend, yet!) in the first
place?

Because, say LU, at this time of year the airport is busier at
weekends.

Hmmm, I suppose that makes some sense. But why immediately
following a holiday weekend? Don't some people delay their returns
until after Bank Holiday? (An honest question -- as an American,
I don't know British travel customs. In the U.S., lots of people
extend their holiday weekends.) And, aside from Bank Holiday in
particular, doesn't travel drop off substantially as September
progresses?

No. Business travel increases to normal levels after the summer lull.
This week is probably the best option, after the holiday peak and before
the business traffic ramps up.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

South Kensington to Heathrow Terminal 3 on Tuesday
 

There are normal service buses (also free) as well as the specials they
are laying on. They go to the central bus station.

South Kensington to Heathrow Terminal 3 on Tuesday
 

Richard J. wrote:
David of Broadway wrote:
Hmmm, I suppose that makes some sense. But why immediately
following a holiday weekend? Don't some people delay their returns
until after Bank Holiday? (An honest question -- as an American,
I don't know British travel customs. In the U.S., lots of people
extend their holiday weekends.) And, aside from Bank Holiday in
particular, doesn't travel drop off substantially as September
progresses?

No. Business travel increases to normal levels after the summer lull.
This week is probably the best option, after the holiday peak and before
the business traffic ramps up.

So wouldn't weekends several weeks from now be light?

And if traffic is particularly light on these three days, then how
about relaxing carry-on baggage restrictions, as BAA promised to do
when traffic lightened up?

South Kensington to Heathrow Terminal 3 on Tuesday
 

David of Broadway wrote:
Richard J. wrote:
David of Broadway wrote:
Hmmm, I suppose that makes some sense. But why immediately
following a holiday weekend? Don't some people delay their
returns until after Bank Holiday? (An honest question -- as an
American,
I don't know British travel customs. In the U.S., lots of people
extend their holiday weekends.) And, aside from Bank Holiday in
particular, doesn't travel drop off substantially as September
progresses?

No. Business travel increases to normal levels after the summer
lull. This week is probably the best option, after the holiday
peak and before the business traffic ramps up.

So wouldn't weekends several weeks from now be light?

Possibly, but how would that accommodate a 3-day closure before 17
September?

And if traffic is particularly light on these three days, then how
about relaxing carry-on baggage restrictions, as BAA promised to do
when traffic lightened up?

Did they? I thought the carry-on baggage restrictions were imposed by
the government (Department for Transport).
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

South Kensington to Heathrow Terminal 3 on Tuesday
 

Richard J. wrote:
David of Broadway wrote:
Richard J. wrote:
David of Broadway wrote:
Hmmm, I suppose that makes some sense. But why immediately
following a holiday weekend? Don't some people delay their
returns until after Bank Holiday? (An honest question -- as an
American,
I don't know British travel customs. In the U.S., lots of people
extend their holiday weekends.) And, aside from Bank Holiday in
particular, doesn't travel drop off substantially as September
progresses?

No. Business travel increases to normal levels after the summer
lull. This week is probably the best option, after the holiday
peak and before the business traffic ramps up.

So wouldn't weekends several weeks from now be light?

Possibly, but how would that accommodate a 3-day closure before 17
September?

Fair enough, if the work can't be done in two. Maybe a weekend plus
the adjoining Friday or Monday?

And if traffic is particularly light on these three days, then how
about relaxing carry-on baggage restrictions, as BAA promised to do
when traffic lightened up?

Did they? I thought the carry-on baggage restrictions were imposed by
the government (Department for Transport).

You're right -- DfT it is:

http://travel.timesonline.co.uk/arti...328078,00.html

South Kensington to Heathrow Terminal 3 on Tuesday
 

David of Broadway wrote:
Richard J. wrote:
David of Broadway wrote:
Richard J. wrote:
David of Broadway wrote:
Hmmm, I suppose that makes some sense. But why immediately
following a holiday weekend? Don't some people delay their
returns until after Bank Holiday? (An honest question -- as
an American, I don't know British travel customs. In the
U.S., lots of people extend their holiday weekends.) And,
aside from Bank Holiday in particular, doesn't travel drop
off substantially as September progresses?

No. Business travel increases to normal levels after the summer
lull. This week is probably the best option, after the holiday
peak and before the business traffic ramps up.

So wouldn't weekends several weeks from now be light?

Possibly, but how would that accommodate a 3-day closure before 17
September?

Fair enough, if the work can't be done in two. Maybe a weekend plus
the adjoining Friday or Monday?

But then it wouldn't have given you such an interesting journey!
:-)
Seriously, have a good trip.

--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

South Kensington to Heathrow Terminal 3 on Tuesday
 

Richard J. wrote:
Seriously, have a good trip.

Thanks!

What's funny is that, for all the fuss I'm making over the bus here in
London, that's exactly what I have to do at the New York end of the
trip (except that I'm not under a time constraint, which is really the
issue). We still don't have direct train service to any of our
airports -- the best we have is a shuttle service to nearby rail and
subway stations at an additional 2½ fares. (That's right -- we
have a flat $2 fare on our entire subway and bus system, including a
free transfer between bus and subway, but AirTrain JFK has its own $5
fare and doesn't honor or issue free transfers.) And once on the
subway, no matter which route I take, I need to transfer near the end
of the trip to get where I'm going.

South Kensington to Heathrow Terminal 3 on Tuesday
 

In message . com, David
of Broadway writes

No. Business travel increases to normal levels after the summer
lull. This week is probably the best option, after the holiday
peak and before the business traffic ramps up.

So wouldn't weekends several weeks from now be light?

Possibly, but how would that accommodate a 3-day closure before 17
September?

Fair enough, if the work can't be done in two. Maybe a weekend plus
the adjoining Friday or Monday?

Weekend closures are already booked up well into next year for normal
engineering works. Due to the T5 construction work, the site will have
only become ready in the last week or so (in fact, it may not even be
handed over until the day before we start reinstating signalling). LU
obviously want to restart services to T4 as soon as possible, with
September 2006 having already been given as the reopening date. That
would only give weekends of 2/3 September and 9/10 September to do this
work. As it needs 3 days that would encroach into the week at one end
or the other anyway. There is then the requirement for us to run some
trains round the loop in advance of the public reopening.

Also, many people travelling at weekend are less familiar with dealing
with alternative travel options, whereas those travelling in the week
tend to be more regular travellers.

All in all, I suspect this is already a very tight window and probably
the only opportunity to do it.

In any event, it's only the one station that's closed as there will be a
5 minute service into central London from Hatton Cross on all days.
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)

South Kensington to Heathrow Terminal 3 on Tuesday
 

Steve Fitzgerald wrote:
Also, many people travelling at weekend are less familiar with dealing
with alternative travel options, whereas those travelling in the week
tend to be more regular travellers.

In the Underground network as a whole, certainly. But to Heathrow
specifically, I doubt it.

In general, having to use alternative travel options is an
inconvenience to most. But when it comes to airports, passengers are
under time pressure and passengers are carrying luggage.

All in all, I suspect this is already a very tight window and probably
the only opportunity to do it.

Fair enough. It would have been nice if (a) TfL had informed the
airlines well in advance and (b) the airlines cared and were willing to
pass the information on to their customers. Had I known before booking
my flight, I would probably have flown out a day earlier to avoid the
issue.

In any event, it's only the one station that's closed as there will be a
5 minute service into central London from Hatton Cross on all days.

Sure, but it's a pretty important station, especially given the time
constraints and the luggage issues that I mentioned earlier.

South Kensington to Heathrow Terminal 3 on Tuesday
 

In message .com,
David of Broadway writes

Fair enough. It would have been nice if (a) TfL had informed the
airlines well in advance and (b) the airlines cared and were willing to
pass the information on to their customers. Had I known before booking
my flight, I would probably have flown out a day earlier to avoid the
issue.

BAA (Who own Heathrow Airport) will have set the timescales as it's they
who are building the T5 extension. I'm sure they were fully in the loop
as to when this was likely to happen.

Perhaps LUL/TfL only had definite confirmation a few weeks ago that the
date would happen though? We only had confirmation at work about 3
weeks ago that the new timetable would happen on 17 September and there
were posters put up from then.

In any event, it's only the one station that's closed as there will be a
5 minute service into central London from Hatton Cross on all days.

Sure, but it's a pretty important station, especially given the time
constraints and the luggage issues that I mentioned earlier.

Having flown out of T4 myself a few months ago whilst this blockade was
on, I have to say the journey from Hatton Cross to T4 (and the one to
T123 would be similar) was no worse than the merry jaunt around
Amsterdam Schipol to change planes. It took me about 10 minutes extra
on my journey, hardly worth getting excited about in the great scheme of
things. YMMV.
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)

South Kensington to Heathrow Terminal 3 on Tuesday
 

OK, I made it to the airport in one piece, but with some difficulties
that might or might not have been related to the line closure to Heathrow.

Everything was fine until Hounslow East, where we proceeded to sit in
the station for 20-25 minutes due to a signal failure at Hatton Cross.
Then the driver announced that the train would be returning to the West
End. (I will say, I very much enjoyed the driver's informal
announcements. Informal announcements are strictly forbidden here in
New York!)

The shuttle bus was quite crowded, and the style of bus (2x2 seating
with wide, cushioned seats) was ill-suited for the job, although I don't
know if anything else was available. It took a long time to load the
bus, and then the ride itself took about 15 minutes. I wonder, did the
bus dispatcher continue to send out buses on their original schedule
even when no trains were arriving to fill them? There was only one bus
on the stand.

So I probably should have gotten off at Hounslow East for the 111, but I
didn't know that at the time. Eventually, announcements at Hounslow
Central advised passengers for Heathrow to backtrack to Hounslow East,
but by then trains were moving, so I stayed put.

Once at the airport (about an hour later than I would have gotten there
if everything had been running normally), I found that, much to my
surprise, there was no check-in line (excuse me, queue) for my airline.
So, after checking my bag, I had time to wander off and photograph
some buses. I also filled out a Customer Charter form (another concept
I'm not used to from New York) -- do I have a valid claim, and does the
voucher expire? (I'm sure I'll be back in London at some point, but I
have no idea when.)

If anybody would like to see these photos, they're at
http://greenberger.no-ip.com/gallery...2_itemId=38659

You can also follow the links to photos -- many transport-related --
from the rest of my three weeks in London, as well as lots more photos
(pretty much all transport-related) from my trip last year to Europe.
(The London portion of last year's trip isn't ready yet for public
consumption.)
--
David of Broadway
New York, NY, USA

South Kensington to Heathrow Terminal 3 on Tuesday
 

Steve Fitzgerald wrote:
In message .com,
David of Broadway writes

Fair enough. It would have been nice if (a) TfL had informed the
airlines well in advance and (b) the airlines cared and were willing to
pass the information on to their customers. Had I known before booking
my flight, I would probably have flown out a day earlier to avoid the
issue.

BAA (Who own Heathrow Airport) will have set the timescales as it's they
who are building the T5 extension. I'm sure they were fully in the loop
as to when this was likely to happen.

True. Which makes the lack of information to intending airline
passengers even less excusable.

Perhaps LUL/TfL only had definite confirmation a few weeks ago that the
date would happen though? We only had confirmation at work about 3
weeks ago that the new timetable would happen on 17 September and there
were posters put up from then.

I first found out about it when I stumbled across TfL's planned outage
PDF. I don't remember exactly when that was, but it was some time
between when I booked my flight (in mid-July) and when I left for London
(on 6 August).

Granted, the PDF did say that it was subject to confirmation.

Having flown out of T4 myself a few months ago whilst this blockade was
on, I have to say the journey from Hatton Cross to T4 (and the one to
T123 would be similar) was no worse than the merry jaunt around
Amsterdam Schipol to change planes. It took me about 10 minutes extra
on my journey, hardly worth getting excited about in the great scheme of
things. YMMV.

Well, I can see a few major differences between the two outages:

1. If my A-Z is correct, it's a much shorter trip by road to T4 than to
T123.

2. T4 alone serves many fewer passengers than T123 combined. Some
potential T4 passengers might even have shifted to T123 airlines to
avoid the issue.

3. Some T4 passengers have been staying on the Tube to T123 and then
using Heathrow Express. Obviously, that isn't an option with this
week's outage.

4. The T4 outage has been going on for a while and is advertised on all
maps, including the ones on the trains. There weren't even any signs on
the trains about the T123 outage, so there was a good deal of passenger
confusion.

Also, I'd guess (correct me if I'm wrong) that you were traveling light.
I wasn't, and from the sizes of the bags on the bus, neither were many
others. I doubt your transfer at Amsterdam involved an unavoidable
climb up 33 steps with all of your luggage! (Yes, there were a few
porters, but not nearly enough for the crowd.)
--
David of Broadway
New York, NY, USA

South Kensington to Heathrow Terminal 3 on Tuesday
 

Richard J. wrote:
David of Broadway wrote:
Also, on a different note, the email says that the bus will drop me
off at Terminal 2. How long a walk is it from there to Terminal 3?
Or is there another bus I should take?

It's around 5 to 10 minutes, all underground and much of it on
travolators. The LU shuttle bus drops off at T2, but if you catch a
285, say, it will take you to the central bus station, about half way
between T2 and T3.

The shuttle bus dropped me off right outside the central bus station,
essentially adjacent to the entrance to the Tube station. The walk was
short -- less than 5 minutes.

But I think it might have dropped me off in the wrong place, because we
had to push past a long queue of people waiting to board, and I thought
the drop-off and pick-up points were different.

Do you know which one is closer to the bus stop?

Same distance, because both converge on the same stairs into the ticket
hall. The bus station is right outside, and includes both the special
buses and the normal services.

The one at the back end was one-way down.

No. Business travel increases to normal levels after the summer lull.
This week is probably the best option, after the holiday peak and before
the business traffic ramps up.

Obviously, I can only speak for my flight, but I'd estimate that it was
at least 90% full, probably closer to 95%.
--
David of Broadway
New York, NY, USA

South Kensington to Heathrow Terminal 3 on Tuesday
 

On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 12:08:02 GMT, David of Broadway
wrote:

OK, I made it to the airport in one piece, but with some difficulties
that might or might not have been related to the line closure to Heathrow.

Hooray ;-)

Everything was fine until Hounslow East, where we proceeded to sit in
the station for 20-25 minutes due to a signal failure at Hatton Cross.
Then the driver announced that the train would be returning to the West
End. (I will say, I very much enjoyed the driver's informal
announcements. Informal announcements are strictly forbidden here in
New York!)

I wonder if it was Mr Fitzgerald at the mic?

The points at Hatton Cross and Heathrow have been very problematic of
late. I expect there will be more to come when the line is reopened
tomorrow.

If anybody would like to see these photos, they're at
http://greenberger.no-ip.com/gallery...2_itemId=38659

You can also follow the links to photos -- many transport-related --
from the rest of my three weeks in London, as well as lots more photos
(pretty much all transport-related) from my trip last year to Europe.
(The London portion of last year's trip isn't ready yet for public
consumption.)

Some very nice pictures there from your travels. Brought back some
memories of several European cities that I've visited. Thanks for
posting the link.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

South Kensington to Heathrow Terminal 3 on Tuesday
 

In message , Paul Corfield
writes

Everything was fine until Hounslow East, where we proceeded to sit in
the station for 20-25 minutes due to a signal failure at Hatton Cross.
Then the driver announced that the train would be returning to the West
End. (I will say, I very much enjoyed the driver's informal
announcements. Informal announcements are strictly forbidden here in
New York!)

I wonder if it was Mr Fitzgerald at the mic?

Afraid not - I'm annual leave for two weeks. Although, had it been me,
I would have made similar announcements - I do believe very much in
telling people what's going on (in plain speak too!), even if I haven't
an awful lot to tell them. I believe it to be reassuring.

Now we could have a discussion on all this 'everything is running fine'
rubbish ;)

The points at Hatton Cross and Heathrow have been very problematic of
late. I expect there will be more to come when the line is reopened
tomorrow.

I imagine they're quite thankful we'll be opening the loop again in just
over two weeks.
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)

South Kensington to Heathrow Terminal 3 on Tuesday
 

David of Broadway wrote:
Everything was fine until Hounslow East, where we proceeded to sit in
the station for 20-25 minutes due to a signal failure at Hatton Cross.

* * * CORRECTION * * *

That would be Hounslow Central, not Hounslow East.

So I probably should have gotten off at Hounslow East for the 111, but I
didn't know that at the time. Eventually, announcements at Hounslow
Central advised passengers for Heathrow to backtrack to Hounslow East,
but by then trains were moving, so I stayed put.

Now perhaps this paragraph makes sense.
--
David of Broadway
New York, NY, USA

South Kensington to Heathrow Terminal 3 on Tuesday
 

Paul Corfield wrote:
I wonder if it was Mr Fitzgerald at the mic?

Oh, I had no idea he worked the Piccadilly. I hope I didn't get him in
trouble! (In New York, conductors are reprimanded for not making
announcements strictly according to the Blue Book, and some managers who
care about these rules monitor the various Internet message boards.)

Some very nice pictures there from your travels. Brought back some
memories of several European cities that I've visited. Thanks for
posting the link.

Glad you enjoyed them! I'm glad the paranoia over photography that has
taken over in the U.S. doesn't exist in Europe. The day of the fumbled
attacks last year, I was happily clicking away, and the day the
ultra-tight security measures went into effect at UK airports this year,
I took pictures of the DLR at London City.
--
David of Broadway
New York, NY, USA

South Kensington to Heathrow Terminal 3 on Tuesday
 

In message , David of Broadway
writes
Paul Corfield wrote:
I wonder if it was Mr Fitzgerald at the mic?

Oh, I had no idea he worked the Piccadilly. I hope I didn't get him in
trouble! (In New York, conductors are reprimanded for not making
announcements strictly according to the Blue Book, and some managers
who care about these rules monitor the various Internet message boards.)

Not at all. We're strongly encouraged to make PAs when things go wrong
(which is, of course, how it should be) and regularly at other times.
We are monitored from time to time by 'mystery shoppers' to ensure we do
this. There isn't really a script as such on LU - we're expected to be
proactive and give useful announcements (YMMV on what is useful of
course).

As I've only been a driver for 4 years or so, I still feel I think like
a passenger and tend to make those extra PAs if I feel it would be
helpful (ie. trouble ahead, heard on the train radio). For what it's
worth, I had my TD1 a couple of weeks ago (it's sort of like an annual
driving test for train drivers we have to do) and one of the comments I
got back in my feedback was 'helpful and confident PAs' smug git!!.
And if that nice Mr Delieu does mine next year, I'll expect nothing less
again;)
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)

South Kensington to Heathrow Terminal 3 on Tuesday
 

On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 17:00:45 +0100, Steve Fitzgerald ]
wrote:

In message , Paul Corfield
writes

Everything was fine until Hounslow East, where we proceeded to sit in
the station for 20-25 minutes due to a signal failure at Hatton Cross.
Then the driver announced that the train would be returning to the West
End. (I will say, I very much enjoyed the driver's informal
announcements. Informal announcements are strictly forbidden here in
New York!)

Well as in all things there are good and bad. Some drivers don't bother
at all, some you can't hear even though they make the effort, some talk
in "railway speak" which I can understand but most passengers cannot,
some are overhelpful with microscopically detailed commentaries while
there is a small group who pitch it very nicely with good intonation,
friendly manner and simple, polite language. Humour usually works but
occasionally it jars - for me anyway as it can sound very unprofessional
even if the passengers are smiling.

I wonder if it was Mr Fitzgerald at the mic?

Afraid not - I'm annual leave for two weeks. Although, had it been me,
I would have made similar announcements - I do believe very much in
telling people what's going on (in plain speak too!), even if I haven't
an awful lot to tell them. I believe it to be reassuring.

On holiday again!? You're never at work.

Now we could have a discussion on all this 'everything is running fine'
rubbish ;)

Well I get very annoyed when I've had to wait for 8 mins for a Northern
Line train and I'm told via the PA that there is a good service every
120 seconds. It makes my blood boil because a good service means I
wouldn't be waiting long enough to hear one announcement never 4 or 5 of
the damn things.

I do like the idea of the whiteboards / electronic screens with the
status info - neat and easy to use.

--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

South Kensington to Heathrow Terminal 3 on Tuesday
 

In message , Paul Corfield
writes
Afraid not - I'm annual leave for two weeks. Although, had it been me,
I would have made similar announcements - I do believe very much in
telling people what's going on (in plain speak too!), even if I haven't
an awful lot to tell them. I believe it to be reassuring.

On holiday again!? You're never at work.

Well with holidays and one-unders it's been rather an easy year up to
now.
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)

South Kensington to Heathrow Terminal 3 on Tuesday
 

Steve Fitzgerald wrote:
Not at all. We're strongly encouraged to make PAs when things go wrong
(which is, of course, how it should be) and regularly at other times. We
are monitored from time to time by 'mystery shoppers' to ensure we do
this. There isn't really a script as such on LU - we're expected to be
proactive and give useful announcements (YMMV on what is useful of course).

Oh, certainly, announcements are not only encouraged but are required in
New York when something's gone wrong. (If anything, the initial
announcement tends to be made much sooner in New York.) But there are
definite scripts that cover most routine issues, and even when there's
no specific script, there are certain things that are not to be said.

For instance, dedicated announcers (specially trained conductors who
have the task of making station PA announcement) are not allowed to
announce that a train is delayed. Instead, they announce that the train
is "running at slower speeds." Even though that means something
different entirely.

A few years ago, I discovered a conductor on the 1 who managed to make
even routine station announcements witty. Since the 1 is my home line,
I ran into him on occasion. Several months later I found myself back on
his train, but he was making the standard boring announcements. I asked
around and found out that he had been reprimanded for not following the
Blue Book.

Incidentally, conductors in New York are required to make routine
station announcements at all stations (except, of course, on newer cars
that make their own announcements). In London, on cars that don't have
automated announcements, it seems like many drivers don't bother. Are
routine station announcements not required? And, while I'm busy asking
questions, what's with the (seemingly) automated announcements over the
station PA's (i.e., outside the train) on the Piccadilly line that would
seem to be more appropriate on the train itself?

As I've only been a driver for 4 years or so, I still feel I think like
a passenger and tend to make those extra PAs if I feel it would be
helpful (ie. trouble ahead, heard on the train radio). For what it's
worth, I had my TD1 a couple of weeks ago (it's sort of like an annual
driving test for train drivers we have to do) and one of the comments I
got back in my feedback was 'helpful and confident PAs' smug git!!.
And if that nice Mr Delieu does mine next year, I'll expect nothing less
again;)

Sounds good!
--
David of Broadway
New York, NY, USA

South Kensington to Heathrow Terminal 3 on Tuesday
 

"Steve Fitzgerald" ] wrote in message
...
In message , David of Broadway
writes
Paul Corfield wrote:
I wonder if it was Mr Fitzgerald at the mic?

Oh, I had no idea he worked the Piccadilly. I hope I didn't get him in
trouble! (In New York, conductors are reprimanded for not making
announcements strictly according to the Blue Book, and some managers who
care about these rules monitor the various Internet message boards.)

Not at all. We're strongly encouraged to make PAs when things go wrong
(which is, of course, how it should be) and regularly at other times. We
are monitored from time to time by 'mystery shoppers' to ensure we do
this. There isn't really a script as such on LU - we're expected to be
proactive and give useful announcements (YMMV on what is useful of
course).

As I've only been a driver for 4 years or so, I still feel I think like a
passenger and tend to make those extra PAs if I feel it would be helpful
(ie. trouble ahead, heard on the train radio). For what it's worth, I had
my TD1 a couple of weeks ago (it's sort of like an annual driving test for
train drivers we have to do) and one of the comments I got back in my
feedback was 'helpful and confident PAs' smug git!!. And if that nice Mr
Delieu does mine next year, I'll expect nothing less again;)

Without wishing to appear vain or shallow, feedback could be affected by
weather or not you've learnt to spell my name correctly by then..;-)
--
Cheers, Steve.
Change from jealous to sad to reply.

South Kensington to Heathrow Terminal 3 on Tuesday
 

On Fri, 01 Sep 2006 10:07:11 GMT, "Steve Dulieu"
wrote:


"Steve Fitzgerald" ] wrote in message
...
In message , David of Broadway
writes
Paul Corfield wrote:
I wonder if it was Mr Fitzgerald at the mic?

Oh, I had no idea he worked the Piccadilly. I hope I didn't get him in
trouble! (In New York, conductors are reprimanded for not making
announcements strictly according to the Blue Book, and some managers who
care about these rules monitor the various Internet message boards.)

Not at all. We're strongly encouraged to make PAs when things go wrong
(which is, of course, how it should be) and regularly at other times. We
are monitored from time to time by 'mystery shoppers' to ensure we do
this. There isn't really a script as such on LU - we're expected to be
proactive and give useful announcements (YMMV on what is useful of
course).

As I've only been a driver for 4 years or so, I still feel I think like a
passenger and tend to make those extra PAs if I feel it would be helpful
(ie. trouble ahead, heard on the train radio). For what it's worth, I had
my TD1 a couple of weeks ago (it's sort of like an annual driving test for
train drivers we have to do) and one of the comments I got back in my
feedback was 'helpful and confident PAs' smug git!!. And if that nice Mr
Delieu does mine next year, I'll expect nothing less again;)

Without wishing to appear vain or shallow, feedback could be affected by
weather or not you've learnt to spell my name correctly by then..;-)

And I would imagine other feedback to hallowed corners of Piccadilly
Line management would be affected by whether you can spell whether
properly ;-)
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

South Kensington to Heathrow Terminal 3 on Tuesday
 

In message , Paul Corfield
writes

Not at all. We're strongly encouraged to make PAs when things go wrong
(which is, of course, how it should be) and regularly at other times. We
are monitored from time to time by 'mystery shoppers' to ensure we do
this. There isn't really a script as such on LU - we're expected to be
proactive and give useful announcements (YMMV on what is useful of
course).

As I've only been a driver for 4 years or so, I still feel I think like a
passenger and tend to make those extra PAs if I feel it would be helpful
(ie. trouble ahead, heard on the train radio). For what it's worth, I had
my TD1 a couple of weeks ago (it's sort of like an annual driving test for
train drivers we have to do) and one of the comments I got back in my
feedback was 'helpful and confident PAs' smug git!!. And if that nice Mr
Delieu does mine next year, I'll expect nothing less again;)

Without wishing to appear vain or shallow, feedback could be affected by
weather or not you've learnt to spell my name correctly by then..;-)

And I would imagine other feedback to hallowed corners of Piccadilly
Line management would be affected by whether you can spell whether
properly ;-)

Game, set and match I think :D
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)

South Kensington to Heathrow Terminal 3 on Tuesday
 

David of Broadway wrote, back in August:
I also filled out a Customer Charter form (another concept I'm
not used to from New York) -- do I have a valid claim, and does the
voucher expire? (I'm sure I'll be back in London at some point, but I
have no idea when.)

I still haven't heard a response. Does it usually take this long? Or
is my claim invalid because I gave an overseas address?
--
David of Broadway
New York, NY, USA