Buenos Aires also does that multiple names for the same station thing.
The New York Metrocard is paper, not plastic - I have one here as a
bookmark somewhere. What annoys me is that you need a US zipcode to buy
one with a credit card (and I'm pretty sure you can buy top-ups too) -
US banknotes hardly ever work in machines, so it's hard for foreigners
to get hold of one.

wrote:
minutes, it was just so fast, as people weren't ordering extensions,
period travelcards, etc. Has a token system ever been used or
considered for the tube?

There are few tourists in Kiev. Most of the people buying
tickets are locals so they know what they need.

The trains themselves are showing their age. All have transverse
seating. Not that that is any good to anyone, as the trains are
PACKED, and I do mean PACKED, at all times of day. I think I got a

Really? Its been busy when I've been there but I wouldn't say it was
as packed as the tube though admittedly I did avoid the morning
rush hour.

The stations themselves all look fairly similar, and the signage is
terrible. This is one area where I've consistently found that London

Agreed. Though if you can speak russian the staff are helpful albeit
in a typical surly soviet manner.

The size of the escalators is amazing. The make the ones at Angel and
Leicester Square look like pygmies. Most people just don't seem to

The older deep stations under the escarpment next to the river such
as Dnipro and Arsenalna were also designed as nuclear bunkers
that could survive a direct hit by a multi megaton bomb. Allegedly.
They're certainly deep enough though.

numbers of people, but I would say in terms of comfort and
user-friendliness London does better.

Shame LU can't actually run a half decent service though unlike
Kiev despite it being one of (if the not the) most expensive metros
in the world. People blame metronet and tube lines but LU were
crap even when they ran their own show. I'd like to see LU drivers
terminate a train , take it into the headshunt, reverse it and board
new passengers in 2 mins 30 seconds. Next time you're in Kiev go
to Lisova on the red line and time them if you don't believe me!

B2003

Tom Anderson wrote:
The really dopey thing, i found, was that the ticket machines didn't
sell unlimited ride cards, only the carnet-like cards. And had a 6 USD
limit to the amount of change they'd give you, which, given that a
six-ride card is ten bucks and ATMs all give you twenties, is bloody
annoying!

That is most certainly not the case! All MetroCard Vending Machines
owned by New York City Transit dispense both pay-per-ride and unlimited
MetroCards. In fact, the (overpriced) one-day Fun Pass is /only/
available at machines and at out-of-system vendors, not at booths.

Perhaps you encountered an MVM owned by the Port Authority of New York
and New Jersey. Fares on AirTrain and PATH are also paid by MetroCard,
but only pay-per-ride cards (and, in the case of AirTrain, special
AirTrain unlimited cards) are accepted. PA-owned MVM's don't sell NYCT
unlimited cards. (In fact, if I try to find out when my 30-day NYCT
unlimited card expires by slipping it into an AirTrain MVM, the MVM
tells me that my card is invalid!)

This leads to a somewhat confusing situation at Howard Beach, one of the
transfer points between AirTrain and the subway. The mezzanine is
divided into three sections: AirTrain fare control, subway fare control,
and outside fare control. The MVM's in subway fare control and in
AirTrain fare control are AirTrain MVM's, while I believe the MVM's
outside fare control are NYCT MVM's. The distinction is not obvious if
you don't know what to look for.

If all you're doing is buying a pay-per-ride card with cash or a
standard credit or debit card, it makes no difference which machine you
use. But if you want an unlimited card, or if you have a special debit
card that only works with certain vendors (for instance, I have a debit
card that is only valid at NYCT MVM's, allowing me to pay for my commute
from pretax payroll deductions), it makes a big difference.
--
David of Broadway
New York, NY, USA

wrote:
Buenos Aires also does that multiple names for the same station thing.

As does New York, since most stations are named after cross streets. I
can ride the F or V train along 6th Avenue to the 14th Street station or
I can ride the L train along 14th Street to the 6th Avenue station and
reach the same point. (To make matters even more confusing, a
passageway to 7th Avenue permits free transfers to the 1, 2, and 3
trains. So if you're on the L and you want to transfer to the 7th
Avenue line, you have to get off at 6th Avenue.)

New York also has multiple stations with the same name, for the same
reason. There are additional stations named 14th Street at Union Square
and at 8th Avenue. There are even two routes that stop at pairs of
identically named stations: the B stops at 7th Avenue (and 53rd Street)
in Manhattan and at 7th Avenue (and Flatbush Avenue) in Brooklyn, and
the R stops at 36th Street (and Northern Boulevard) in Queens and at
36th Street (and 4th Avenue) in Brooklyn. And if that's not bad enough,
the D train has stops named 47th-50th Streets, 50th Street, and Bay 50th
Street.

The New York Metrocard is paper, not plastic - I have one here as a
bookmark somewhere.

No, the standard MetroCard is plastic. SingleRide tickets and bus
transfers are paper.

What annoys me is that you need a US zipcode to buy
one with a credit card (and I'm pretty sure you can buy top-ups too) -
US banknotes hardly ever work in machines, so it's hard for foreigners
to get hold of one.

Do the machines ask for zip codes for foreign cards? That's pretty silly.
--
David of Broadway
New York, NY, USA

In message , David of Broadway
writes

As does New York, since most stations are named after cross streets. I
can ride the F or V train along 6th Avenue to the 14th Street station
or I can ride the L train along 14th Street to the 6th Avenue station
and reach the same point.

A similar system on the Paris metro brings together some deliciously
unlikely pairings: Barbès — Rochechouart (a 19th-century
revolutionary writer and a 17th-century aristocratic abbess, Richelieu -
Drouot (Louis XIII's secretary of state and Napoleon's aide-de-camp) and
so on.

--
Paul Terry

Paul Terry wrote:
In message , David of Broadway
writes

As does New York, since most stations are named after cross streets.
I can ride the F or V train along 6th Avenue to the 14th Street
station or I can ride the L train along 14th Street to the 6th Avenue
station and reach the same point.

A similar system on the Paris metro brings together some deliciously
unlikely pairings: Barbès — Rochechouart (a 19th-century revolutionary
writer and a 17th-century aristocratic abbess, Richelieu - Drouot (Louis
XIII's secretary of state and Napoleon's aide-de-camp) and so on.

But unlike in New York, IINM the Paris system refers to the entire
station complex by the combined name. In New York, you won't find any
reference to 14th Street on the station name signage on the L platform
or to 6th Avenue on the station name signage on the F/V platform.

One odd exception is one stop away, at Union Square, which even the
automated announcements on the L announce as 14th Street - Union Square,
despite the fact that Union Square is the third of five consecutive
stops that the L makes along 14th Street.

There have been attempts to unify some complexes. For instance,
references to Bryant Park popped up a few years ago at the station
complex that includes the 42nd Street station on the B/D/F/V and the
5th Avenue station on the 7, and the massive station in Brooklyn
currently known as Broadway Junction was until a few years ago (2001?)
signed as Broadway Junction only on the L platforms, with the J/Z
platforms signed Eastern Parkway and the A/C platforms signed
Broadway-East New York. (The A/C platforms were fully retiled in the
renaming. The J/Z platforms did once have an exit to Eastern Parkway,
but that exit was closed permanently in the 80's or early 90's.)

And some station complexes have had unified names since they've opened.

But for many of them, there is no conceivable name that would make sense
on all of the platforms.
--
David of Broadway
New York, NY, USA

On Fri, 29 Sep 2006, David of Broadway wrote:

Tom Anderson wrote:
The really dopey thing, i found, was that the ticket machines didn't sell
unlimited ride cards, only the carnet-like cards. And had a 6 USD limit to
the amount of change they'd give you, which, given that a six-ride card is
ten bucks and ATMs all give you twenties, is bloody annoying!

That is most certainly not the case! All MetroCard Vending Machines owned by
New York City Transit dispense both pay-per-ride and unlimited MetroCards.

Hmm. Okay. I certainly didn't see any way to buy one - there was no button
for it that i could see. This was at various machines, including one at
68th St - Hunter College.

And my point about the six dollar change limit stands!

tom

--
The sky above the port was the colour of television, tuned to a dead
channel

Tom Anderson wrote:
On Fri, 29 Sep 2006, David of Broadway wrote:

Tom Anderson wrote:
The really dopey thing, i found, was that the ticket machines didn't
sell unlimited ride cards, only the carnet-like cards. And had a 6
USD limit to the amount of change they'd give you, which, given that
a six-ride card is ten bucks and ATMs all give you twenties, is
bloody annoying!

That is most certainly not the case! All MetroCard Vending Machines
owned by New York City Transit dispense both pay-per-ride and
unlimited MetroCards.

Hmm. Okay. I certainly didn't see any way to buy one - there was no
button for it that i could see. This was at various machines, including
one at 68th St - Hunter College.

Strange. All of the machines I've ever used have offered the
"Unlimited" option. Either you didn't notice it or the machines you
used were programmed wrong.

And my point about the six dollar change limit stands!

I won't argue with that!
--
David of Broadway
New York, NY, USA