South West Trains retain franchise
 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5369688.stm

On the whole I think this is good news, and they have made a
committment to Island Line too.

South West Trains retain franchise
 

ONscotland wrote:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5369688.stm

On the whole I think this is good news, and they have made a
committment to Island Line too.

Perhaps the BBC didn't choose the most appropriate photo to go with
their report.
Baz

South West Trains retain franchise
 

In article .com,
(Marratxi) wrote:

ONscotland wrote:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5369688.stm

On the whole I think this is good news, and they have made a
committment to Island Line too.

Perhaps the BBC didn't choose the most appropriate photo to go with
their report.

According to Roger Ford the class 458s are why Stagecoach won it.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

South West Trains retain franchise
 

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:
In article .com,
(Marratxi) wrote:


ONscotland wrote:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5369688.stm

On the whole I think this is good news, and they have made a
committment to Island Line too.

Perhaps the BBC didn't choose the most appropriate photo to go with
their report.


According to Roger Ford the class 458s are why Stagecoach won it.

And does the 'suggested' cascade (eventually)mean more 319s for FCC?

Jim Chisholm

South West Trains retain franchise
 

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:
In article .com,
(Marratxi) wrote:

ONscotland wrote:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5369688.stm

On the whole I think this is good news, and they have made a
committment to Island Line too.

Perhaps the BBC didn't choose the most appropriate photo to go with
their report.

According to Roger Ford the class 458s are why Stagecoach won it.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

It just gets worse and worse !!!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_458
Barry Emmott

South West Trains retain franchise
 

Marratxi wrote:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5369688.stm

On the whole I think this is good news, and they have made a
committment to Island Line too.

Perhaps the BBC didn't choose the most appropriate photo to go with
their report.

According to Roger Ford the class 458s are why Stagecoach won it.


It just gets worse and worse !!!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_458

Wiki article is way out of date, unfortunately (might fix it today if I
get the time). The latest facts are that:
* Porterbrook have come up with a relatively cheap way of fixing the
PIS.
* Failure time for the units with SWT has fallen significantly.
* SWT is no longer only using the units to cover failed/unavailable
Desiros.

The latest rumours, as reported by Roger Ford and mentioned by Colin
above, a
* When the new Desiro build comes online, SWT will keep the 458s and
take the 442s (Wessex Electrics) off-lease.
* DfT/Porterbrook might then offer Southern the 442s as a substitute
for its 319s - they're more suited to the Brighton route than the
suburban-ish 319s and exist in about the right numbers.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

South West Trains retain franchise
 

John B wrote:
Marratxi wrote:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5369688.stm

On the whole I think this is good news, and they have made a
committment to Island Line too.

Perhaps the BBC didn't choose the most appropriate photo to go with
their report.

According to Roger Ford the class 458s are why Stagecoach won it.


It just gets worse and worse !!!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_458

Wiki article is way out of date, unfortunately (might fix it today if I
get the time). The latest facts are that:
* Porterbrook have come up with a relatively cheap way of fixing the
PIS.
* Failure time for the units with SWT has fallen significantly.
* SWT is no longer only using the units to cover failed/unavailable
Desiros.

The latest rumours, as reported by Roger Ford and mentioned by Colin
above, a
* When the new Desiro build comes online, SWT will keep the 458s and
take the 442s (Wessex Electrics) off-lease.
* DfT/Porterbrook might then offer Southern the 442s as a substitute
for its 319s - they're more suited to the Brighton route than the
suburban-ish 319s and exist in about the right numbers.



I would assume that they would only indirectly replace 319s and
actually replace 377s on Brighton Express.

But are full length Mark 3s cleared for that line anyway?

South West Trains retain franchise
 

MIG wrote:
[re 442s transferring to Southern]

I would assume that they would only indirectly replace 319s and
actually replace 377s on Brighton Express.

But are full length Mark 3s cleared for that line anyway?

Certainly from Clapham to Brighton, from XC days. I'm not sure about
Clapham to Victoria - have a vague idea Victoria itself isn't cleared
for 23m stock, but might have got that wrong.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

South West Trains retain franchise
 

John B wrote:
MIG wrote:
[re 442s transferring to Southern]

I would assume that they would only indirectly replace 319s and
actually replace 377s on Brighton Express.

But are full length Mark 3s cleared for that line anyway?

Certainly from Clapham to Brighton, from XC days. I'm not sure about
Clapham to Victoria - have a vague idea Victoria itself isn't cleared
for 23m stock, but might have got that wrong.


I think it went straight from Mark 2s to Voyagers, but I could have
misremembered. I think Voyagers are long, but the clearances would be
different.

South West Trains retain franchise
 

MIG wrote:
[re 442s transferring to Southern]

I would assume that they would only indirectly replace 319s and
actually replace 377s on Brighton Express.

But are full length Mark 3s cleared for that line anyway?

Certainly from Clapham to Brighton, from XC days. I'm not sure about
Clapham to Victoria - have a vague idea Victoria itself isn't cleared
for 23m stock, but might have got that wrong.

I think it went straight from Mark 2s to Voyagers, but I could have
misremembered. I think Voyagers are long, but the clearances would be
different.

Apparently, no 23m Mk3 may pass another Mk3 on the Brighton line:
http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk....f50e3d0d066572

....but it's alleged that more recently, HSTs were run on the Sussex
Scot:
http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk....5c4593c8fa7e0?

Hmm. Would anyone who knows care to elaborate?

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

South West Trains retain franchise
 

In article .com,
(John B) wrote:

have a vague idea Victoria itself isn't cleared
for 23m stock, but might have got that wrong.

How did GatEx manage then?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

South West Trains retain franchise
 

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:
In article .com,
(John B) wrote:

have a vague idea Victoria itself isn't cleared
for 23m stock, but might have got that wrong.

How did GatEx manage then?



The old ones were Mark 2s. Not sure about their Junipers, but again,
probably different clearance from Mark 3s.

South West Trains retain franchise
 

MIG wrote:
have a vague idea Victoria itself isn't cleared
for 23m stock, but might have got that wrong.

How did GatEx manage then?

The old ones were Mark 2s. Not sure about their Junipers, but again,
probably different clearance from Mark 3s.

19.66m for the 460s, according to "electric-railways.co.uk", whoever
they a
http://electric-railways.co.uk/L2_DC...Class_460.html

I know the 170s don't go to Victoria (because it's underground,
irrespective of coach length constraints), but how much - if any - of
the route from London Bridge to Brighton are they cleared for?

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

South West Trains retain franchise
 

In article om,
(John B) wrote:

MIG wrote:
have a vague idea Victoria itself isn't cleared
for 23m stock, but might have got that wrong.

How did GatEx manage then?

The old ones were Mark 2s. Not sure about their Junipers, but
again, probably different clearance from Mark 3s.

I thought the GatEx sets included some Mark 3s?

19.66m for the 460s, according to "electric-railways.co.uk", whoever
they a

http://electric-railways.co.uk/L2_DC...u/emu_dc/Class
_460.html

I know the 170s don't go to Victoria (because it's underground,
irrespective of coach length constraints), but how much - if any -
of the route from London Bridge to Brighton are they cleared for?

Saw one (actually a 171) at Brighton last week but it was on a service
to Ashford.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

South West Trains retain franchise
 

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:
In article om,
(John B) wrote:

MIG wrote:
have a vague idea Victoria itself isn't cleared
for 23m stock, but might have got that wrong.

How did GatEx manage then?

The old ones were Mark 2s. Not sure about their Junipers, but
again, probably different clearance from Mark 3s.

I thought the GatEx sets included some Mark 3s?


No, don't think so.



19.66m for the 460s, according to "electric-railways.co.uk", whoever
they a

http://electric-railways.co.uk/L2_DC...u/emu_dc/Class
_460.html

I know the 170s don't go to Victoria (because it's underground,
irrespective of coach length constraints), but how much - if any -
of the route from London Bridge to Brighton are they cleared for?

Saw one (actually a 171) at Brighton last week but it was on a service
to Ashford.


You get SWT 170s at Brighton as well, but that still leaves most of the
route to South Croydon uncertain.

They are narrower than 442s though, and maybe tapered in different
ways, so if they are cleared it wouldn't follow that 442s were.

Come to think of it, the 166s are quite long and wider still, and cover
the Redhill to Gatwick bit.

South West Trains retain franchise
 

In article .com,
(MIG) wrote:

Come to think of it, the 166s are quite long and wider still, and
cover the Redhill to Gatwick bit.

I very much doubt that they are 23m long (or indeed ,longer than 20m)
though.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

South West Trains retain franchise
 

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:
In article .com,
(MIG) wrote:

Come to think of it, the 166s are quite long and wider still, and
cover the Redhill to Gatwick bit.

I very much doubt that they are 23m long (or indeed ,longer than 20m)
though.


23.5m, according to their owners:
http://www.angeltrains.co.uk/datashe...ail.aspx?ID=10

I suppose this isn't too surprising given that (via the 168s) they were
the basis for the Turbostar.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

South West Trains retain franchise
 

In article . com,
(John B) wrote:

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:
In article
.com,
(MIG) wrote:

Come to think of it, the 166s are quite long and wider still,
and cover the Redhill to Gatwick bit.

I very much doubt that they are 23m long (or indeed ,longer than
20m) though.

23.5m, according to their owners:
http://www.angeltrains.co.uk/datashe...ail.aspx?ID=10

I suppose this isn't too surprising given that (via the 168s) they
were the basis for the Turbostar.

Oh! I thought all Turbostars were 20m.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

South West Trains retain franchise
 

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:
In article . com,
(John B) wrote:

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:
In article
.com,
(MIG) wrote:

Come to think of it, the 166s are quite long and wider still,
and cover the Redhill to Gatwick bit.

I very much doubt that they are 23m long (or indeed ,longer than
20m) though.

23.5m, according to their owners:
http://www.angeltrains.co.uk/datashe...ail.aspx?ID=10

I suppose this isn't too surprising given that (via the 168s) they
were the basis for the Turbostar.

Oh! I thought all Turbostars were 20m.



It was only checking for this discussion earlier that made me realise
that they are longer than Electrostars. (And that diesel Networkers,
sorry Network Turbos, are longer than electric Networkers.)

South West Trains retain franchise
 

In article .com,
(MIG) wrote:

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:
In article . com,
(John B) wrote:

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:
In article
.com,
(MIG) wrote:

Come to think of it, the 166s are quite long and wider
still, and cover the Redhill to Gatwick bit.

I very much doubt that they are 23m long (or indeed ,longer
than 20m) though.

23.5m, according to their owners:
http://www.angeltrains.co.uk/datashe...ail.aspx?ID=10

I suppose this isn't too surprising given that (via the 168s)
they were the basis for the Turbostar.

Oh! I thought all Turbostars were 20m.

It was only checking for this discussion earlier that made me
realisethat they are longer than Electrostars. (And that diesel
Networkers, sorry Network Turbos, are longer than electric Networkers.)

Interesting. I clearly failed to notice for all these years that all the
Super Sprinters were 23m.

--
Colin Rosenstiel