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Oyster System to become national by default. Is this a cunning plot- shock horror
http://www.inthenews.co.uk/money/news/transport/stagecoach-retains-south-western-franchise-$452553.htm
Quote Under the new franchise, Stagecoach has agreed to increase capacity on its trains by agreeing to boost the number of seats on its mainline peak services by 21 per cent and on peak suburban services by 20 per cent. The company has also pledged to ensure a more visible staff presence at its stations to improve the security of passengers and to invest £19 million in Oyster smartcard technology to make it easier for rail travellers to purchase tickets. Stagecoach also plans to invest about £40 million on "core station improvements", including major refurbishment at 14 large stations. Commenting on today's development, Peter Hendy, commissioner for Transport for London (TfL), said: "Six million people already use Oyster every day in London. This means that from 2009, passengers on the South Western franchise will be able to use Oyster ticketing, including pay as you go, integrated with transport modes across London, including the Tube, bus and Docklands Light Railway (DLR). "It is vital we have an integrated ticketing system between mainline rail and TfL's tube, bus and DLR network in London, so that passengers can enjoy the full benefits and convenience of Oyster. This is a major step towards fully integrated ticketing in London." Unquote Two questions If Stagecoach have had to agree to boost the number of seats at the peak by 20/21% - how come the same provisions were not applied to FCC thuis leading to the Thameslink shambles. Was somebody in the DfT franchise offer taking a power nap during the meeting? Will the requirement to include Oyster compatability now be extended on a franchise by franchise basis on all franchises that offer through ticketing to London. If so why does the DfT not insist on the system being used on say buses and trams in Manchester, Sheffield or Nottingham - no point in investing in two incompatable systems? As they say why take 2 bottles into the shower? |
Oyster System to become national by default. Is this a cunning plot- shock horror
On 24 Sep 2006 05:54:29 -0700, "Bob"
wrote: http://www.inthenews.co.uk/money/news/transport/stagecoach-retains-south-western-franchise-$452553.htm [snip] Two questions If Stagecoach have had to agree to boost the number of seats at the peak by 20/21% - how come the same provisions were not applied to FCC thuis leading to the Thameslink shambles. Was somebody in the DfT franchise offer taking a power nap during the meeting? A guess but the new Desiros paid for by the DfT have to be used for something. It also seems the Alstom 458s can be modified to be kept in service. SWT would therefore *appear* to have a surplus of trains that can be deployed for peak service. Not requiring SWT to run these trains would put the DfT in a tight spot as to why it funded extra trains if the old timetable and train lengths were good enough. Will the requirement to include Oyster compatability now be extended on a franchise by franchise basis on all franchises that offer through ticketing to London. If so why does the DfT not insist on the system being used on say buses and trams in Manchester, Sheffield or Nottingham - no point in investing in two incompatable systems? As they say why take 2 bottles into the shower? There are two aspects to this. One is to get Oyster retailed via all TOC outlets in London - the DfT has agreed this will be done and TfL will pay for the installation and equipment costs. TOCs pay running costs. This should roll out from now to 2008/9. Where franchises are coming up for renewal then DfT have done the sensible thing and mandated implementation of London area Oyster in the appropriate franchises. Interestingly SWT seem to be saying they will adopt it across their franchise which to my mind makes sense. The latest Modern Railways also includes a letter from the MD of C2C which mentions that they are in discussion in pushing Oyster retailing beyond their few London area stations into the Essex. The second aspect is that DfT have required TfL to move towards ITSO compliance with Oyster. ITSO is the national smartcard application and schemes are being worked on in various areas. Once Oyster is ITSO compatible then in theory you have interworking. ITSO is an "open" spec AIUI while Oyster is more restricted but can be licensed. There has been huge opposition, primarily from the TOCs, to being "locked in" to Oyster and the scheme's supplier (Transys) in the London area never mind beyond. It therefore makes more commercial sense to push for ITSO compliance as it offers a more competitive market place for equipment and support systems. The main point, though, is that Oyster is up and running while I can't think of an ITSO scheme that is working to even 10% of the scale of Oyster. -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
Oyster System to become national by default. Is this a cunning plot- shock horror
Bob wrote:
If Stagecoach have had to agree to boost the number of seats at the peak by 20/21% - how come the same provisions were not applied to FCC thuis leading to the Thameslink shambles. Goodness knows. At the last Q&A session with FCC, Elaine Holt pointed out that they have no requirement to provide any new trains during their franchise period. As the 13 trains they need for the Thameslink branch are currently with Southern, they have pretty much said there's nothing they can do. The DfT are left trying to sort something out, but why wasn't there any requirement to build new rolling stock during the next 9 years? The 313s, 317s and 319s will all be rather old by then!! Even the 365s will be falling apart. I guess the answer is money. FCC will be paying the Government money, and new rolling stock would reduce this (ignoring the investment in jobs, had it been possible to build stock in the UK). FCC keeps quoting the £52m of investment, but that doesn't sound like much over the franchise term. Will the requirement to include Oyster compatability now be extended on a franchise by franchise basis on all franchises that offer through ticketing to London. If so why does the DfT not insist on the system being used on say buses and trams in Manchester, Sheffield or Nottingham - no point in investing in two incompatable systems? As they say why take 2 bottles into the shower? I hope that one day there will be a UK wide (maybe even Europe wide) smart card system for ticketing. There's no physical reason for this not happening, but you can be sure that there are many political reasons! If commuter services are moved to a zone based pricing system and Oyster, or a proper international standard system, is introduced throughout the southeast, it's a start. If things are done properly, it should be relatively easy to update the hardware to accept other types of card in the future so we're not stuck with something completely non-standard (as Oyster appears to be). I hope SWT are going to buy and install equipment that can be upgraded easily! Jonathan |
Oyster System to become national by default. Is this a cunning plot- shock horror
In message . com, at
05:54:29 on Sun, 24 Sep 2006, Bob remarked: Will the requirement to include Oyster compatability now be extended on a franchise by franchise basis on all franchises that offer through ticketing to London. If so why does the DfT not insist on the system being used on say buses and trams in Manchester, Sheffield or Nottingham - no point in investing in two incompatable systems? I wasn't aware that I could buy a through ticket from a Nottingham tram stop to London, but the use of the same smartcard for both "Oyster" and the Nottingham City Transport schemes would mean I had one less to carry. Although Nottingham has yet to enable its smartcard for the trams, I think - if it was something simple like giving all the conductors readers you'd have thought they'd have done it by now. -- Roland Perry |
Oyster System to become national by default. Is this a cunning plot- shock horror
In message . com, at
07:06:32 on Sun, 24 Sep 2006, jonmorris remarked: I hope that one day there will be a UK wide (maybe even Europe wide) smart card system for ticketing. There's no physical reason for this not happening, but you can be sure that there are many political reasons! Sounds like one of those big public sector IT projects that fails to be implemented properly. I'm quite impressed [1] at the way Oyster (and separately the Congestion Charge) have been implemented over London, but rolling it out to hundreds of provincial cities and deregulated bus companies seems a little ambitious. [1] As far as it goes. The inability to access my data via the web is a bit of a let down; and things like having to nominate one specific station for certain transactions has let me down in the past (when my plans changed and I didn't go anywhere near that station after all - something that's more likely to happen for an out-of-towner perhaps). -- Roland Perry |
Oyster System to become national by default. Is this a cunning plot- shock horror
In article . com,
"jonmorris" wrote: I hope that one day there will be a UK wide (maybe even Europe wide) smart card system for ticketing. There's no physical reason for this not happening, but you can be sure that there are many political reasons! Could this have a negative effect on pricing, though? I may not be understanding the finer details of the Oyster system (down here in the south London suburbs, there's no use for the cards) but I would have thought such a system would involve standardised prices... ie reducing the range of sub-Saver prices for tickets bought well in advance. Adrian -- http://www.spaghetti-factory.co.uk http://www.custom-transcription.com |
Oyster System to become national by default. Is this a cunning plot- shock horror
Roland Perry wrote:
Sounds like one of those big public sector IT projects that fails to be implemented properly. I'm quite impressed [1] at the way Oyster (and separately the Congestion Charge) have been implemented over London, but rolling it out to hundreds of provincial cities and deregulated bus companies seems a little ambitious. Yes, I agree but we have a pretty standard ticketing system on the railway at the moment. Most buses use the same, old, ticketing system - so at one time, they all got them from the same supplier/s. Some have taken the iniative to go a step further, but that isn't the way to go as it becomes confusing for anyone other than regulars or those travelling long distances and mixing different ticket types and procedures. If every company could buy a working system 'off the shelf' then it wouldn't be that much a problem to do. You don't have one person (especially not a Government) trying to install it on buses, tubes, trains, coaches etc - you have a recognised standard, then any number of companies can produce the equipment to work with it. Every operator can brand their own smartcards, but they are still interchangeable. If the card system held credit, like Oyster, you could operate a simple pay as you go system on anything - and why wouldn't that work abroad? Well, apart from the currency conversion issue until we get the Euro. Such a system could even be rolled out to taxis. Whoever debits the card gets the money (less a commission fee) rather like a credit or debit card (but unlike those, you can swipe in/out at gates etc). Effectively, it becomes an e-cash system. Funnily enough, Oyster had visions of their card working for loads of things - which presumably fell down when it became clear that outside of the transport industry, there probably wasn't much interest in installing the equipment. Jonathan [1] As far as it goes. The inability to access my data via the web is a bit of a let down; and things like having to nominate one specific station for certain transactions has let me down in the past (when my plans changed and I didn't go anywhere near that station after all - something that's more likely to happen for an out-of-towner perhaps). The system isn't perfect, and may not replace cash or credit cards (in fact, I hope not), but a simple PAYG system that can also hold season tickets and other tickets is a good idea - especially if it is accepted in many places. I have no idea how much the reader/writer equipment costs, but in the future it may well be the case that you can get one for home. |
Oyster System to become national by default. Is this a cunning plot- shock horror
Adrian Clark wrote:
Could this have a negative effect on pricing, though? I may not be understanding the finer details of the Oyster system (down here in the south London suburbs, there's no use for the cards) but I would have thought such a system would involve standardised prices... ie reducing the range of sub-Saver prices for tickets bought well in advance. Certainly a change. No doubt with some negative aspects, as this would be inevitable. There are plans, or maybe just suggestions, to introduce a zone system on national rail services into London. I don't know how this will affect pricing on trains but it could well be a good thing. Let's be positive! It would certainly benefit anyone coming in from a long distance to zone 1, e.g. Cambridge as you may well find you can travel the same distance in another direction (assuming the zones are radial and not in sections like north, northeast, south etc). It's going to be interesting to see if any changes do happen as I can think of a few potential problems. I am sure many other people can too. Jonathan |
Oyster System to become national by default. Is this a cunning plot- shock horror
In article .com,
"jonmorris" wrote: There are plans, or maybe just suggestions, to introduce a zone system on national rail services into London. I don't know how this will affect pricing on trains but it could well be a good thing. Let's be positive! Now that would certainly be interesting, and closer to a proper "per mile" pricing system. I'd love to see First Great Western's response to something like that... "Yes, we know London to Swindon is only 80 miles, but they're premium miles" Adrian -- http://www.spaghetti-factory.co.uk http://www.custom-transcription.com |
Oyster System to become national by default. Is this a cunning plot- shock horror
Roland Perry wrote:
Sounds like one of those big public sector IT projects that fails to be implemented properly. I'm quite impressed [1] at the way Oyster (and separately the Congestion Charge) have been implemented over London, but rolling it out to hundreds of provincial cities and deregulated bus companies seems a little ambitious. It's a project that would probably be better run by the banks as a national smart-card micropayments system. Such a thing would be very useful indeed - like the Dutch ChipKnip or the German Geldkarte. Incidentally, Oyster is (in part) an EDS project... Neil |
Oyster System to become national by default. Is this a cunning plot- shock horror
Adrian Clark wrote:
Could this have a negative effect on pricing, though? I may not be understanding the finer details of the Oyster system (down here in the south London suburbs, there's no use for the cards) but I would have thought such a system would involve standardised prices... ie reducing the range of sub-Saver prices for tickets bought well in advance. I can't see it being applied to InterCity ticketing, other than that you'd be able to "load" a ticket onto it before travelling. What it might nicely apply to, though, is local tickets - CDRs etc. Neil |
Oyster System to become national by default. Is this a cunning plot- shock
|
Oyster System to become national by default. Is this a cunningplot- shock horror
jonmorris wrote:
If commuter services are moved to a zone based pricing system and Oyster, or a proper international standard system, is introduced throughout the southeast, it's a start. If things are done properly, it should be relatively easy to update the hardware to accept other types of card in the future so we're not stuck with something completely non-standard (as Oyster appears to be). If installed everywhere, non-standard becomes the standard and everyone has to adapt. |
Oyster System to become national by default. Is this a cunningplot- shock horror
jonmorris wrote:
If every company could buy a working system 'off the shelf' then it wouldn't be that much a problem to do. You don't have one person (especially not a Government) trying to install it on buses, tubes, trains, coaches etc - you have a recognised standard, then any number of companies can produce the equipment to work with it. Every operator can brand their own smartcards, but they are still interchangeable. If the card system held credit, like Oyster, you could operate a simple pay as you go system on anything - and why wouldn't that work abroad? Well, apart from the currency conversion issue until we get the Euro. Such a system could even be rolled out to taxis. Whoever debits the card gets the money (less a commission fee) rather like a credit or debit card (but unlike those, you can swipe in/out at gates etc). Isn't this what ITSO is all about? Establish a standard for the cards and the station hardware that any manufacturer can make, that will be interoperable. The problem with Oyster is it is a proprietary system, made by one consortium, so they are a monopoly supplier. Effectively, it becomes an e-cash system. Funnily enough, Oyster had visions of their card working for loads of things - which presumably fell down when it became clear that outside of the transport industry, there probably wasn't much interest in installing the equipment. My understanding is that the Octopus card in Hong Kong, which is similar to Oyster, is used for non-transport purchases like sweets and newspapers. It may just take time, but I could imagine the kiosks on underground stations being a good place to start. Robin |
Oyster System to become national by default. Is this a cunning plot- shock horror
R.C. Payne wrote: jonmorris wrote: If every company could buy a working system 'off the shelf' then it wouldn't be that much a problem to do. You don't have one person (especially not a Government) trying to install it on buses, tubes, trains, coaches etc - you have a recognised standard, then any number of companies can produce the equipment to work with it. Every operator can brand their own smartcards, but they are still interchangeable. If the card system held credit, like Oyster, you could operate a simple pay as you go system on anything - and why wouldn't that work abroad? Well, apart from the currency conversion issue until we get the Euro. Such a system could even be rolled out to taxis. Whoever debits the card gets the money (less a commission fee) rather like a credit or debit card (but unlike those, you can swipe in/out at gates etc). Isn't this what ITSO is all about? Establish a standard for the cards and the station hardware that any manufacturer can make, that will be interoperable. The problem with Oyster is it is a proprietary system, made by one consortium, so they are a monopoly supplier. Effectively, it becomes an e-cash system. Funnily enough, Oyster had visions of their card working for loads of things - which presumably fell down when it became clear that outside of the transport industry, there probably wasn't much interest in installing the equipment. My understanding is that the Octopus card in Hong Kong, which is similar to Oyster, is used for non-transport purchases like sweets and newspapers. It may just take time, but I could imagine the kiosks on underground stations being a good place to start. Makes you wonder why they would separately try to introduce ID cards given that, once cash stops being accepted in most places, these smart cards would effectively become a licence to exist that could be withdrawn if the authorities don't like you. And you won't be able to buy toilet roll without it being recorded in a database, let alone travel somewhere. I don't really relish this kind of future. But it's the "security" implications of being able to track all our movements and purchases that may eventually get it funded, not travel convenience. |
Oyster System to become national by default. Is this a cunning plot- shock horror
In message .com, MIG
writes And you won't be able to buy toilet roll without it being recorded in a database, let alone travel somewhere. But surely if we're working towards a paperless system, toilet roll will be replaced with some smartcard alternative which one can just swipe....... (I'll get my coat.) -- Ian Jelf, MITG Birmingham, UK Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk |
Oyster System to become national by default. Is this a cunning plot- shock horror
In message , Ian Jelf
writes In message .com, MIG writes And you won't be able to buy toilet roll without it being recorded in a database, let alone travel somewhere. But surely if we're working towards a paperless system, toilet roll will be replaced with some smartcard alternative which one can just swipe....... (I'll get my coat.) Doesn't Tesco already have a huge database on which punter buys what? -- Charlie. |
Oyster System to become national by default. Is this a cunning plot- shock horror
Andrew wrote: jonmorris wrote: If commuter services are moved to a zone based pricing system and Oyster, or a proper international standard system, is introduced throughout the southeast, it's a start. If things are done properly, it should be relatively easy to update the hardware to accept other types of card in the future so we're not stuck with something completely non-standard (as Oyster appears to be). If installed everywhere, non-standard becomes the standard and everyone has to adapt. I always thought that the main reason the TOC's never installed Oyster was that they were going to eventually use the agreed European standard for rail smart cards. Oyster were a bit arrogant and decided to use their own version of smart card. But as it's being used by a large population it may well become the defacto standard for the UK. Quite what the approved European smart card does above the Oyster, I do not know. As for who should run it. I think it'd be great to also make it the de-facto electronic purse. Even if it is just station related. For example the sweet/fizzy pop machines and phone boxes But if we are going to have cards being used like money then shouldn't the banks be running it and not some transport quango? (I understand Mint are already giving it a try) A |
Oyster System to become national by default. Is this a cunning plot- shock horror
"Andrew" wrote in message . uk... jonmorris wrote: If commuter services are moved to a zone based pricing system and Oyster, or a proper international standard system, is introduced throughout the southeast, it's a start. If things are done properly, it should be relatively easy to update the hardware to accept other types of card in the future so we're not stuck with something completely non-standard (as Oyster appears to be). If installed everywhere, non-standard becomes the standard and everyone has to adapt. Why not start introducing Oyster card systems to other cities and urban areas with large bus and train movements? That would simply copy the current London setup and allow the pricing to be worked out nationally with further spread into the rural areas for the services that run between the smaller towns etc. Nick -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
Oyster System to become national by default. Is this a cunning plot- shock horror
The message
from Ian Jelf contains these words: And you won't be able to buy toilet roll without it being recorded in a database, let alone travel somewhere. But surely if we're working towards a paperless system, toilet roll will be replaced with some smartcard alternative which one can just swipe....... Didn't you mean "smartarse" alternative...? g -- Dave, Frodsham |
Oyster System to become national by default. Is this a cunning plot- shock horror
In article .com, MIG
writes Makes you wonder why they would separately try to introduce ID cards given that, once cash stops being accepted in most places, these smart cards would effectively become a licence to exist that could be withdrawn if the authorities don't like you. 'You had to take those pieces of paper with you when you went shopping, though by the time I was nine or ten most people used plastic cards. It seems so primitive ... before everything went on the Compubank. I guess that's how they were able to do it, in the way they did, all at once, without anyone knowing beforehand. If there had still been portable money, it would have been more difficult.' Margaret Atwood - 'The Handmaid's Tale' Oh yes, and what 'they' did was to invalidate every woman's Oyster-sorry-Compubank card at the same moment. All part of the grand scheme to undo centuries of women's liberation. Very successfully, too. -- Sue The Sir Nigel Gresley Locomotive Preservation Trust is now at http://www.sirnigelgresley.co.uk Including - 00 gauge Hornby and Bachmann models for sale. |
Oyster System to become national by default. Is this a cunning plot- shock horror
Ian Jelf writes:
But surely if we're working towards a paperless system, toilet roll will be replaced with some smartcard alternative which one can just swipe....... No, three sea shells :-) |
Oyster System to become national by default. Is this a cunning plot- shock horror
On Sun, 24 Sep 2006 23:44:45 +0000, Andrew wrote:
If things are done properly, it should be relatively easy to update the hardware to accept other types There is a standard for RFID cards. I don't know if Oyster follows it. I've seen a Singapore 'EZlink' reader in a convenience store with a sticker stuck on the back reading 'dual band antenna fitted', so I presume these things CAN be made to work with multiple card types. of card in the future so we're not stuck with something completely non-standard (as Oyster appears to be). My Oyster gets a reaction out of Sydney (Australia) T-Card readers. They obviously use the same system. However my 5 year old Singapore EZlink card doesn't get a reaction of of a London Oyster reader or a Sydney T-Card reader. Sydney haven't actually got their smart-card system past being used as a student bus pass. One day, Ill try waving a Sydney card at a London reader and watch what happens, but not today, as the only people that have cards are school students... |
Oyster System to become national by default. Is this a cunning plot- shock horror
Londoncityslicker wrote:
But if we are going to have cards being used like money then shouldn't the banks be running it and not some transport quango? (I understand Mint are already giving it a try) Nottingham University and Mastercard (I think) tried it with contact smartcards a number of years ago. Remember Mondex? I think it was before its time, and it would work now if universally accepted. Neil |
Oyster System to become national by default. Is this a cunning plot- shock horror
In message om, at
00:45:18 on Tue, 26 Sep 2006, Neil Williams remarked: But if we are going to have cards being used like money then shouldn't the banks be running it and not some transport quango? (I understand Mint are already giving it a try) Nottingham University and Mastercard (I think) tried it with contact smartcards a number of years ago. Remember Mondex? I think it was before its time, and it would work now if universally accepted. The main trial was in Swindon Town, plus four Universities elsewhere. Didn't work; but as you say it might have been a little early. -- Roland Perry |
Oyster System to become national by default. Is this a cunning plot- shock horror
In message
Roland Perry wrote: In message om, at 00:45:18 on Tue, 26 Sep 2006, Neil Williams remarked: But if we are going to have cards being used like money then shouldn't the banks be running it and not some transport quango? (I understand Mint are already giving it a try) Nottingham University and Mastercard (I think) tried it with contact smartcards a number of years ago. Remember Mondex? I think it was before its time, and it would work now if universally accepted. The main trial was in Swindon Town, plus four Universities elsewhere. Exeter was one. Didn't work; but as you say it might have been a little early. If the Exeter one was typical there were only a limited number of places that would accept it, mainly on campus. The advantage Oyster has is that it already in widespread use for its primary function, therefore any other London business willing to use it will be opting into a large and growing userbase from the start. However with the almost universal use of credit and debit cards for transactions of more than a few pounds then what niche is it going to fill? Automated newsagents would be one, now there's a thought... -- Graeme Wall This address is not read, substitute trains for rail. Transport Miscellany at http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail/index.html |
Oyster System to become national by default. Is this a cunning plot- shock horror
Matthew Geier wrote:
My Oyster gets a reaction out of Sydney (Australia) T-Card readers Did you have to touch in at Earls Court? -- http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p13309749.html (43 008 at Crewe, 28 Apr 2001) |
Oyster System to become national by default. Is this acunning plot- shock horror
On 26/9/06 10:38, "Graeme Wall" wrote:
The advantage Oyster has is that it already in widespread use for its primary function, therefore any other London business willing to use it will be opting into a large and growing userbase from the start. However with the almost universal use of credit and debit cards for transactions of more than a few pounds then what niche is it going to fill? Automated newsagents would be one, now there's a thought... Vending machines for sweets, drinks? |
Oyster System to become national by default. Is this a cunning plot- shock horror
On Tue, 26 Sep 2006 10:38:15 +0100, Graeme Wall
wrote: In message Roland Perry wrote: In message om, at 00:45:18 on Tue, 26 Sep 2006, Neil Williams remarked: But if we are going to have cards being used like money then shouldn't the banks be running it and not some transport quango? (I understand Mint are already giving it a try) Nottingham University and Mastercard (I think) tried it with contact smartcards a number of years ago. Remember Mondex? I think it was before its time, and it would work now if universally accepted. The main trial was in Swindon Town, plus four Universities elsewhere. Exeter was one. Didn't work; but as you say it might have been a little early. If the Exeter one was typical there were only a limited number of places that would accept it, mainly on campus. The advantage Oyster has is that it already in widespread use for its primary function, therefore any other London business willing to use it will be opting into a large and growing userbase from the start. However with the almost universal use of credit and debit cards for transactions of more than a few pounds then what niche is it going to fill? Automated newsagents would be one, now there's a thought... In the Hong Kong system, they have (or did a couple of years ago) Octopus (their version of Oyster) machines in places like shopping centres that actually give you a small free credit (equivalent to 10p or 20p or so), max once a day. So you would see a steady stream of people going via that shopping centre and just touching their card on the machine to collect a free 20p or whatever that machine gave. I could see some places being keen to do things like that here, if simply getting public footfall is important to them. I am sure you could have variations on the above, e.g. every 1000th person gets a £100 credit or something, to further encourage people to come via your shopping centre. Some burglar alarm or access systems I have programmed already have the ability to read smart cards from other systems than their own - you do not have to write anything to the "foreign system" smart card, just read any sort of unique identifier off the card and use that in the system's access control tables instead of expensive cards specific to that system. I don't know if there are any commercially available readers that can pull a unique id number of an Oyster yet, but there is certainly potential for using them to control access to low security things, like a vehicle barrier on a works car park or a private road. There are loads of interesting uses for smart cards that are in wide public acceptance especially if you can disconnect from the thought that they're a payment mechanism only. As for payment I'm sure they had vending machines, parking meters etc that accepted the card in Hong Kong and Singapore, I'm sure such things will come here eventually too. |
Oyster System to become national by default. Is this a cunning plot- shock horror
On 24 Sep 2006 10:32:55 -0700, "jonmorris"
wrote: If every company could buy a working system 'off the shelf' then it wouldn't be that much a problem to do. You don't have one person (especially not a Government) trying to install it on buses, tubes, trains, coaches etc - you have a recognised standard, then any number of companies can produce the equipment to work with it. Every operator can brand their own smartcards, but they are still interchangeable. That is what ITSO is doing: http://www.itso.org.uk/ If Oyster became a default standard there could be problems with everyone being locked into one supplier (a bit like Microsoft and computer operating systems, perhaps). Once Oyster equipment can talk to ITSO kit, everyone should be happy. If the card system held credit, like Oyster, you could operate a simple pay as you go system on anything - and why wouldn't that work abroad? Well, apart from the currency conversion issue until we get the Euro. Such a system could even be rolled out to taxis. Whoever debits the card gets the money (less a commission fee) rather like a credit or debit card (but unlike those, you can swipe in/out at gates etc). Effectively, it becomes an e-cash system. Funnily enough, Oyster had visions of their card working for loads of things - which presumably fell down when it became clear that outside of the transport industry, there probably wasn't much interest in installing the equipment. AIUI the transport operators would risk getting bogged down in the rules govering banks, credit cards, etc. -- Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK |
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