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Old October 6th 06, 09:35 AM posted to uk.railway,
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Default NR-only season tickets in London (was: Would it be lawful for non-London train and bus operators to share revenue?)

[crossposted to]
[original thread on uk.railway]

Neil Williams wrote:

Mizter T wrote:

In the meantime TOCs issue point-to-point tickets, though at least one
TOC (Southern) bases the pricing of point-to-point tickets on the zonal
system. National rail season tickets aren't valid on buses or the

Do NR seasons exist within the Zones? If so, that's strange, as they
don't on Merseyside, and in Greater Manchester they're PTE-controlled
(though the PTE does offer them).

They do - and the price of an NR season ticket is set by the TOC, not
TfL, at least at the moment - which demonstrates that TfL (nor London
Transport before it) has never had control over the railways, unlike
the PTEs (though intermodal ticketing - the Travelcard - has existed
since its introduction in 1985 when it was called the Capitalcard).
TfL's influence is however growing, and they'd like it to grow a lot
more [1].

However NR-only seasons are very useful to some people in London as
they are cheaper than the "equivalent" Travelcard season - in
particular for commuting to a London terminal, but also for other
journeys in London. Abolishing them would kick up a right stink as some
people would have to pay significantly more - double in some
circumstances - for their season ticket.

However TfL-set zonal fares are coming to NR in Greater London quite
soon. Some fear that this will mean NR-only seasons will disappear - I
don't think this will be the case - not entirely at least - given how
much extra it would cost some commuters. I think one of two things will

(Option 1) There will continue to be NR-only seasons available all
across London, but they will be priced according to a zonal structure.
Southern already do this on the lines they set the fares on - see their
FarePal for a simple pricing table and a zonal map [2] [3].

Another question is whether under such a hypothetical future
arrangement the season ticket would still be issued as a point-to-point
ticket - as Southern currently do - or as a zonal ticket (i.e. valid
for rail journeys only anywhere in the zones). Possibly as a
point-to-point ticket, as issuing it as valid as anywhere in the zones
significantly increases its utility - making it more akin to a
Travelcard in usefulness.

(Option 2) The other hypothetical option is that NR-only season tickets
will continue to exist for journeys into the London terminals, where
they offer significant savings over a Travelcard "equivalent". Outside
of this, NR-only season tickets will disappear, and passengers will
have to buy Travelcards instead. However this may not be too much of a
hardship for many passengers as they may also use buses as part of
their journey (or otherwise regularly). The extra cost of the
Travelcard could thus be offset against what they would otherwise pay
for bus travel.

As I don't work for a ticketing policy department on TfL/ATOC/any of
the TOCs then the above are just my ideas, I could be very wrong about
everything I've just said!

You can incidentally check the prices of any UK season ticket (NR-only
or Travelcard, though I don't think any of the PTE passes are in the
database) on Southern's online season ticket system [4].

[1] TfL's plans for a London Rail Authority

[2] Southern FarePal introduction

[3] Southern FarePal PDF

[4] Southern's online season ticket system
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Old October 6th 06, 01:43 PM posted to uk.railway,
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First recorded activity at LondonBanter: Jul 2003
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Default NR-only season tickets in London (was: Would it be lawful for non-London train and bus operators to share revenue?)

In article om, Mizter
T writes
[crossposted to]
Do NR seasons exist within the Zones?

They do

Some here may remember my London Terminals to Finsbury Park season

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