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"44% of pedestrians use the Tube map to navigate around London"
BBC News "Bid to make London walk-friendly"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6032969.stm "More than 44% of pedestrians use the Tube map to navigate around London, according to a study by TfL [...] Not surprising really, but I'm sure the ng could easily list a hundred stupities should one navigate by this method, even if we ignore the old chestnut that is Leicester Square to Covent Garden! Theydon Bois and Epping as close as Farringdon and the Barbican... voice of utl reader Hold on, comparing central and outer stations isn't really on. /voice of utl reader OK, how about these then. Liverpool Street to Moorgate a mission? Borough to London Bridge a sole destroying venture? Oxford Circus to Warren Street enough to send shank's pony to the knackers yard? The Shepherd's got his fingers in two faraway bushes? voice of utl reader Groan /voice of utl reader Anyway I back Red/Magenta/Mauve Ken 100% when he says: "Walking in the capital can be a rewarding experience - you can find hidden architectural gems and interesting shops and galleries". He missed out pubs though. |
"44% of pedestrians use the Tube map to navigate around London"
On Tue, 9 Oct 2006, Mizter T wrote:
BBC News "Bid to make London walk-friendly" http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6032969.stm "More than 44% of pedestrians use the Tube map to navigate around London, according to a study by TfL [...] Not surprising really, but I'm sure the ng could easily list a hundred stupities should one navigate by this method, even if we ignore the old chestnut that is Leicester Square to Covent Garden! Perhaps what we need is a sort of Beck-style diagram for walking routes (ie roads). It couldn't cover every road, and probably couldn't cover the whole of London on one map (ie you might just do central London), but if it could give people a simple skeleton on which to hang their geographical knowledge of London, it might make them more confident in walking about. Show major roads in the area, and have some notation for sidestreets. And an index! Alternatively, spider-style maps dotted round the place. tom -- A military-industrial illusion of democracy |
"44% of pedestrians use the Tube map to navigate around London"
On Tue, 9 Oct 2006, Mizter T wrote:
BBC News "Bid to make London walk-friendly" http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6032969.stm And from the exhibition's website: http://www.legiblelondon.info/ A rather fun collection of bad signs: http://www.legiblelondon.info/workin...ters/index.htm Anyway, sounds fun, and the NLA is pretty close to UCL - i can just walk to Euston and get the Northern Line down to Goodge Street ... tom -- A military-industrial illusion of democracy |
"44% of pedestrians use the Tube map to navigate around London"
Tom Anderson wrote:
On Tue, 9 Oct 2006, Mizter T wrote: BBC News "Bid to make London walk-friendly" http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6032969.stm And from the exhibition's website: http://www.legiblelondon.info/ A rather fun collection of bad signs: http://www.legiblelondon.info/workin...ters/index.htm Anyway, sounds fun, and the NLA is pretty close to UCL - i can just walk to Euston and get the Northern Line down to Goodge Street ... Ho ho, very good! |
"44% of pedestrians use the Tube map to navigate around London"
On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 09:47:54 +0100, Tom Anderson
wrote: On Tue, 9 Oct 2006, Mizter T wrote: BBC News "Bid to make London walk-friendly" http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6032969.stm Whatever happened to the TfL walking maps? They were a brave attempt to give people extra information to help them get around the central area. And from the exhibition's website: http://www.legiblelondon.info/ I think utl should go on a mass visit and then make a combined effort to replicate the A-Z. We've probably got enough people / knowledge to be able to do it. A rather fun collection of bad signs: http://www.legiblelondon.info/workin...ters/index.htm Anyway, sounds fun, and the NLA is pretty close to UCL - i can just walk to Euston and get the Northern Line down to Goodge Street ... What I find particularly ironic about the directional information for the exhibition is that there appears to be no recognition of things called buses. It would have taken next to no effort to show where the nearest bus stops are (very close) and list the bus routes that stop there. Given many of the services run from areas without decent tube access it makes me wonder when someone will work out the meaning of "integrated" when it comes to information for events that are supposed to be improving people's transport choices. The info provided for the Cycle Show at Excel was equally poor and yet that was an event supported by TfL. Most odd. -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
"44% of pedestrians use the Tube map to navigate around London"
Tom Anderson wrote:
On Tue, 9 Oct 2006, Mizter T wrote: BBC News "Bid to make London walk-friendly" http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6032969.stm "More than 44% of pedestrians use the Tube map to navigate around London, according to a study by TfL [...] Not surprising really, but I'm sure the ng could easily list a hundred stupities should one navigate by this method, even if we ignore the old chestnut that is Leicester Square to Covent Garden! Perhaps what we need is a sort of Beck-style diagram for walking routes (ie roads). It couldn't cover every road, and probably couldn't cover the whole of London on one map (ie you might just do central London), but if it could give people a simple skeleton on which to hang their geographical knowledge of London, it might make them more confident in walking about. Show major roads in the area, and have some notation for sidestreets. And an index! Alternatively, spider-style maps dotted round the place. Maybe. I think the required map already exists - the A-Z (though it's not something I carry on my person most of the time). Just like many others I might take a streetmap.co.uk / multimap print-out when I'm going to some back street address or some place I don't know well - that's especially useful when I don't want to be encumbered with holding onto a map (night out etc). I also think one needs - in central London at least - a willingness to just explore and get bit lost, because you're never genuinely lost! I often just walk in broadly the right direction even though I occasionally end up down dead-end now and then (and the dead-end might nontheless reveal a great cafe or obscure shop etc). Actually I know what I'd like. I find the street maps displayed at Tube and rail stations - especially the TfL one's that have a street index - and even those simple one's shown on main bus stops - really handy at times when I know I'm broadly in the right place but need to pinpoint an exact location, or route to that location. So I'd find similar street maps that show the locality, displayed on the street, replete with an index, very useful. |
"44% of pedestrians use the Tube map to navigate around London"
Mizter T ) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying : Borough to London Bridge a sole destroying venture? Depends how hot a day it is. That nice bit of fish from Borough market won't last very long in the full glare of the sun. |
"44% of pedestrians use the Tube map to navigate around London"
Adrian wrote:
Mizter T ) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying : Borough to London Bridge a sole destroying venture? Depends how hot a day it is. That nice bit of fish from Borough market won't last very long in the full glare of the sun. Ha! But will it last in the heat of the Northern Line? Borough Market is of course far closer to London Bridge than Borough tube station. Quick story that illustrates how using the tube map to get around can be a disaster. Two of my friends (a her and a he), newly arrived in London, decided to meet up at Borough Market, having heard people raving about it. First mistake is that he arranged to meet her at Borough tube. She was starting from Shepherd's Bush. This particular weekend the Central Line was out of action between White City and Marble Arch. She thus decides on a long, tortuous route on the H&C from the Bush to KX, and changes for the Northern to Borough - ouch! Of course what she should've done is walked to Olympia, and got the district (changing at Earls Court) to Monument and walked over London Bridge. She took my advice and invested in an A-Z sharpish! |
"44% of pedestrians use the Tube map to navigate around London"
On Tue, 10 Oct 2006, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 09:47:54 +0100, Tom Anderson wrote: On Tue, 9 Oct 2006, Mizter T wrote: BBC News "Bid to make London walk-friendly" http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6032969.stm What I find particularly ironic about the directional information for the exhibition is that there appears to be no recognition of things called buses. [...] The info provided for the Cycle Show at Excel was equally poor and yet that was an event supported by TfL. Most odd. Call me insane, but could this possibly be because they expected people to get there by bike? tom -- Who would you help in a fight, Peter van der Linden or Bill Gates? |
"44% of pedestrians use the Tube map to navigate around London"
On Tue, 10 Oct 2006, Mizter T wrote:
Tom Anderson wrote: On Tue, 9 Oct 2006, Mizter T wrote: BBC News "Bid to make London walk-friendly" http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6032969.stm "More than 44% of pedestrians use the Tube map to navigate around London, according to a study by TfL [...] Not surprising really, but I'm sure the ng could easily list a hundred stupities should one navigate by this method, even if we ignore the old chestnut that is Leicester Square to Covent Garden! Perhaps what we need is a sort of Beck-style diagram for walking routes (ie roads). It couldn't cover every road, and probably couldn't cover the whole of London on one map (ie you might just do central London), but if it could give people a simple skeleton on which to hang their geographical knowledge of London, it might make them more confident in walking about. Show major roads in the area, and have some notation for sidestreets. And an index! Alternatively, spider-style maps dotted round the place. Maybe. I think the required map already exists - the A-Z No. The problem with that, or anything similar, is that it shows too much - it's hard to pick up the A-Z and instantly see what a sensible walking route between two nontrivially distant points is. I think people need something that focuses on key walking arteries. Also, the A-Z is particularly bad since it's split into fairly small pages - if your journey crosses an edge, or worse still a corner, you're out of luck. TfL's cycle maps, which are basically the A-Z printed as sheets (ignore the coloured highlighting if you're on foot), are better, and certainly excellent for the price. Actually I know what I'd like. I find the street maps displayed at Tube and rail stations - especially the TfL one's that have a street index - and even those simple one's shown on main bus stops - really handy at times when I know I'm broadly in the right place but need to pinpoint an exact location, or route to that location. So I'd find similar street maps that show the locality, displayed on the street, replete with an index, very useful. Yes, not a bad idea at all. tom -- Who would you help in a fight, Peter van der Linden or Bill Gates? |
"44% of pedestrians use the Tube map to navigate around London"
On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 21:45:00 +0100, Tom Anderson
wrote: On Tue, 10 Oct 2006, Paul Corfield wrote: The info provided for the Cycle Show at Excel was equally poor and yet that was an event supported by TfL. Most odd. Call me insane, but could this possibly be because they expected people to get there by bike? Hello Insane. I'm sure they would have liked that. However there is little point in wishing to promote integrated transport if you don't make all of the information equally prominent and clear. The info for arriving by car was easier to find than confirming what the public transport arrangements were. -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
"44% of pedestrians use the Tube map to navigate around London"
Tom Anderson wrote:
On Tue, 10 Oct 2006, Mizter T wrote: Tom Anderson wrote: On Tue, 9 Oct 2006, Mizter T wrote: BBC News "Bid to make London walk-friendly" http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6032969.stm "More than 44% of pedestrians use the Tube map to navigate around London, according to a study by TfL [...] Not surprising really, but I'm sure the ng could easily list a hundred stupities should one navigate by this method, even if we ignore the old chestnut that is Leicester Square to Covent Garden! Perhaps what we need is a sort of Beck-style diagram for walking routes (ie roads). It couldn't cover every road, and probably couldn't cover the whole of London on one map (ie you might just do central London), but if it could give people a simple skeleton on which to hang their geographical knowledge of London, it might make them more confident in walking about. Show major roads in the area, and have some notation for sidestreets. And an index! Alternatively, spider-style maps dotted round the place. Maybe. I think the required map already exists - the A-Z No. The problem with that, or anything similar, is that it shows too much - it's hard to pick up the A-Z and instantly see what a sensible walking route between two nontrivially distant points is. I think people need something that focuses on key walking arteries. I agree - the A-Z also highlights classified main roads, which are aimed solely at motor traffic; key walking arteries can be any class of road, but I think their most important property is intuitive wayfinding - i.e. avoiding lots of changes of direction along different streets, which can confuse pedestrians and slow them down. Other properties might be good facilities (i.e. at least occasional shops), generally pleasant environment (e.g. alongside green space), safety (both from accidents with motor vehicles and in terms of crime). I think Marylebone High St is a good example of a good walking road which is easily overlooked on an A-Z. It's interesting with various shops, restaurants and cafes (an interesting street probably feels quicker to walk along, just because there is more to look at), it's easy to follow, it has good pavements and it links Oxford Street with Regent's Park. Regarding what would make a good walking map, I think the Quickmap idea is a good start (quickmap.com/walk2learn.htm - click on the last box of the Flash movie). I don't really get on with their other maps that well, and I prefer a bit more accuracy, but the idea of highlighting key centres in an obvious manner, simplifying the walking network and colour-coding types of area (shopping, entertainment etc) is commendable. In particular, using different size circles to show roughly the range of transport services on offer, and distinguishing local centres with both Tube & bus services from those with only bus services is an excellent idea. Also, the A-Z is particularly bad since it's split into fairly small pages - if your journey crosses an edge, or worse still a corner, you're out of luck. TfL's cycle maps, which are basically the A-Z printed as sheets (ignore the coloured highlighting if you're on foot), are better, and certainly excellent for the price. Actually I know what I'd like. I find the street maps displayed at Tube and rail stations - especially the TfL one's that have a street index - and even those simple one's shown on main bus stops - really handy at times when I know I'm broadly in the right place but need to pinpoint an exact location, or route to that location. So I'd find similar street maps that show the locality, displayed on the street, replete with an index, very useful. Yes, not a bad idea at all. A gripe I have with existing pedestrian signage is that signs may point you in the direction of a destination, but fail to confirm that you're going in the right direction later on. I imagine there's a certain distance beyond which people begin to doubt whether they followed the signs correctly - even if they're heading in the right direction. It must vary from person to person but I think it could happen after ten minutes or so. -- Dave Arquati www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London |
"44% of pedestrians use the Tube map to navigate around London"
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"44% of pedestrians use the Tube map to navigate around London"
Colin Rosenstiel wrote: In article , (Tom Anderson) wrote: TfL's cycle maps, which are basically the A-Z printed as sheets (ignore the coloured highlighting if you're on foot), are better, and certainly excellent for the price. Where are they available? I've never seen anything on sale. I don't find the web version easy to follow or offering very useful cycling routes either. Use the online form at http://www.tfl.gov.uk/cycles/routes/...e-guides.shtml PaulO |
"44% of pedestrians use the Tube map to navigate around London"
Colin Rosenstiel wrote:
In article , (Tom Anderson) wrote: TfL's cycle maps, which are basically the A-Z printed as sheets (ignore the coloured highlighting if you're on foot), are better, and certainly excellent for the price. Where are they available? I've never seen anything on sale. I don't find the web version easy to follow or offering very useful cycling routes either. They're free. Many Underground stations leaflet racks had the relevant maps for their area plus possibly the surrounding areas as well, I also saw them at libraries and other public buildings, a few NR stations and possibly the TfL travel info centres. However I don't see them so often now, perhaps because stocks are running low - the 2004 is the current & second edition, I think the first editions came out in 2001. But you'll be pleased to hear you can order them free online from TfL - they'll post them to you: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/cycles/routes/...e-guides.shtml There are 19 in total, and (I think) each has a detailed map of central London routes on the reverse. I suspect that should one ask for all 19 or for an unreasonable number of duplicates then they might not be forthcoming. The maps are produced in association with the London Cycling Campaign... http://www.lcc.org.uk/ ....a splendid organisation of which I've been a membver for years and thoroughly recommend to anyone who has a bike and might ever use it in the metropolis. |
"44% of pedestrians use the Tube map to navigate around London"
In message . com, Paul
Oter writes Colin Rosenstiel wrote: In article , (Tom Anderson) wrote: TfL's cycle maps, which are basically the A-Z printed as sheets (ignore the coloured highlighting if you're on foot), are better, and certainly excellent for the price. Where are they available? I've never seen anything on sale. I don't find the web version easy to follow or offering very useful cycling routes either. Use the online form at http://www.tfl.gov.uk/cycles/routes/...e-guides.shtml and for a bit of a laugh you can use the TfL Journey Planner's cycle tick box options. Most routes are slightly bizarre, I suspect due to the weighting it gives to various road types, but I did use it and find a lovely off-main-road route which I probably wouldn't have found otherwise, for my daily commute. -- Paul G Typing from Barking |
"44% of pedestrians use the Tube map to navigate around London"
Colin Rosenstiel wrote:
Thanks. None of the guides claim to cover Putney I see. I've ordered 10 and 14, one of which appears to cover it. Putney is on the border of maps 9 and 14, so I'd order 9 as well. PaulO |
"44% of pedestrians use the Tube map to navigate around London"
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"44% of pedestrians use the Tube map to navigate around London"
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"44% of pedestrians use the Tube map to navigate around London"
Mizter T wrote:
BBC News "Bid to make London walk-friendly" http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6032969.stm "More than 44% of pedestrians use the Tube map to navigate around London, according to a study by TfL [...] The most interesting line in this story for me is that there are "A myriad of confusing pedestrian signs". Admittedly some pedestrian signs can be a bit confusing but except around the most tourist-y areas it is hard to think of places where there are a myriad of pedestrian signs of any sort. -- Each day a man watched a donkey walk past a high wood fence with one plank removed. Each day he saw a nose, then the ears, then the neck, forequarters, back and finally the tail. He pondered this for a time and eventually declared. “I understand now. The nose causes the tail” |
"44% of pedestrians use the Tube map to navigate around London"
Colin Rosenstiel wrote:
In article , (Paul G) wrote: and for a bit of a laugh you can use the TfL Journey Planner's cycle tick box options. Most routes are slightly bizarre, I suspect due to the weighting it gives to various road types, but I did use it and find a lovely off-main-road route which I probably wouldn't have found otherwise, for my daily commute. I found it pretty useless for improving my long distance route, from Westminster to Putney, to be honest. It either suggested what i was already using or some strange and lengthy diversions. Surely if it suggested a route you have found suitable, it has accomplished its goal of highlighting the best ways to cycle from A to B? -- Dave Arquati www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London |
"44% of pedestrians use the Tube map to navigate around London"
Dave Arquati wrote:
Colin Rosenstiel wrote: In article , (Paul G) wrote: and for a bit of a laugh you can use the TfL Journey Planner's cycle tick box options. Most routes are slightly bizarre, I suspect due to the weighting it gives to various road types, but I did use it and find a lovely off-main-road route which I probably wouldn't have found otherwise, for my daily commute. I found it pretty useless for improving my long distance route, from Westminster to Putney, to be honest. It either suggested what i was already using or some strange and lengthy diversions. Surely if it suggested a route you have found suitable, it has accomplished its goal of highlighting the best ways to cycle from A to B? Quite. I don't have a Putney to Westminster cycle route stored in my head as, unlike Colin, it's not a journey I regularly make - so whilst I could patch together a vague idea from the mental map in my head I'd prefer to get some ideas from the Journey Planner (or a cycle map - but I don't necessarily have those with me). |
"44% of pedestrians use the Tube map to navigate around London"
In article , (Dave
Arquati) wrote: Colin Rosenstiel wrote: In article , (Paul G) wrote: and for a bit of a laugh you can use the TfL Journey Planner's cycle tick box options. Most routes are slightly bizarre, I suspect due to the weighting it gives to various road types, but I did use it and find a lovely off-main-road route which I probably wouldn't have found otherwise, for my daily commute. I found it pretty useless for improving my long distance route, from Westminster to Putney, to be honest. It either suggested what i was already using or some strange and lengthy diversions. Surely if it suggested a route you have found suitable, it has accomplished its goal of highlighting the best ways to cycle from A to B? Maybe I didn't put that very clearly. It only suggests one route. Parts are the same as I had worked out for myself while other bits involve long and complicated detours, mainly round Clapham Junction, that make little sense to me. The reason I say that is that I've used some of the alternatives when I actually wanted to go to Clapham Junction a couple of times so I had a chance to compare some of them. Basically I go along York Road and Battersea Park Road, much of which has bus lanes or the odd cycle lane. Some is a signed LCN route. -- Colin Rosenstiel |
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