Probably stupid routing question - London, Cambridge and Norwich
 

Evening all,

If i buy a ticket from London to Norwich, can i go via Cambridge, and, if
it's a standard open return, can i break my journey there on both legs?

I want to cycle from London to Cambridge on saturday morning, take the
train to Norwich in the evening, take it back to Cambridge on sunday
morning, then come back to London on sunday evening. I'm thinking a single
big London - Norwich return is likely to be cheaper than a Cambridge -
Norwich return and a Cambridge - London single.

Oh, and by 'London', i probably mean 'Finsbury Park'.

Ideally, i'd actually do the Cambridge to London bit on monday morning; i
assume i can't break a Norwich - London return leg overnight, right?

Also, what's the story with ticket validity on First's trains from
Cambridge to London these days? I remember there being a thread about it
on utl which seemed to generate more heat than light. I assume it's
business as usual at the weekend, but if i wanted to come back on monday,
would i be unable to use some kinds of tickets? How about my railcard?
Until when?

Sorry if these are stupid questions - i have a rough idea of what the
answers are, but also a nagging suspicion that there's more to it than i
remember.

Thanks,
tom

--
Who would you help in a fight, Peter van der Linden or Bill Gates?

Probably stupid routing question - London, Cambridge and Norwich
 

In article , Tom
Anderson writes
If i buy a ticket from London to Norwich, can i go via Cambridge,

Yes.

and, if it's a standard open return, can i break my journey there on
both legs?

Yes.

I want to cycle from London to Cambridge on saturday morning, take the
train to Norwich in the evening, take it back to Cambridge on sunday
morning, then come back to London on sunday evening. I'm thinking a
single big London - Norwich return is likely to be cheaper than a
Cambridge - Norwich return and a Cambridge - London single.

Cambridge is far enough north that this could be wrong, and you should
check (I'm not on line at the moment, so can't). Also look into the
Anglia Ranger, or whatever it's called now, which is valid from
Cambridge to Norwich and puts a cap on off-peak fares.

Oh, and by 'London', i probably mean 'Finsbury Park'.

Makes little, if any, difference.

Ideally, i'd actually do the Cambridge to London bit on monday morning;
i assume i can't break a Norwich - London return leg overnight, right?

If it's an Open Return, you can. Actually, even if it's a Saver, you can
break the return leg.

Also, what's the story with ticket validity on First's trains from
Cambridge to London these days? I remember there being a thread about
it on utl which seemed to generate more heat than light. I assume it's
business as usual at the weekend, but if i wanted to come back on
monday, would i be unable to use some kinds of tickets? How about my
railcard? Until when?

Most off-peak tickets aren't valid in the morning rush-hour. This won't
apply to a Standard Open Return, and might not apply to a Saver (but
you'd need to ask for the latter).

The big fuss was about new restrictions from London in the evening peak.
This won't affect your plans.

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

Probably stupid routing question - London, Cambridge and Norwich
 

Clive D. W. Feather wrote:
you should
check (I'm not on line at the moment, so can't). Also look into the
Anglia Ranger, or whatever it's called now, which is valid from
Cambridge to Norwich and puts a cap on off-peak fares.

The Anglia Ranger/Rover thingie is a day ticket (ten quid I think) so
would be ideal if you weren't staying the night in Norwich. But if you
are, it may not help much. There was talk of a five quid print-your-own
online fare from Cambridge to Liverpool St (or maybe Tottenham Hale in
your case).

Probably stupid routing question - London, Cambridge and Norwich
 

Clive D. W. Feather wrote:

In article , Tom
Anderson writes
If i buy a ticket from London to Norwich, can i go via Cambridge,

Yes.

and, if it's a standard open return, can i break my journey there on
both legs?

Yes.

I want to cycle from London to Cambridge on saturday morning, take the
train to Norwich in the evening, take it back to Cambridge on sunday
morning, then come back to London on sunday evening. I'm thinking a
single big London - Norwich return is likely to be cheaper than a
Cambridge - Norwich return and a Cambridge - London single.

Cambridge is far enough north that this could be wrong, and you should
check (I'm not on line at the moment, so can't). Also look into the
Anglia Ranger, or whatever it's called now, which is valid from
Cambridge to Norwich and puts a cap on off-peak fares.

Oh, and by 'London', i probably mean 'Finsbury Park'.

Makes little, if any, difference.

Ideally, i'd actually do the Cambridge to London bit on monday morning;
i assume i can't break a Norwich - London return leg overnight, right?

If it's an Open Return, you can. Actually, even if it's a Saver, you can
break the return leg.

Also, what's the story with ticket validity on First's trains from
Cambridge to London these days? I remember there being a thread about
it on utl which seemed to generate more heat than light. I assume it's
business as usual at the weekend, but if i wanted to come back on
monday, would i be unable to use some kinds of tickets? How about my
railcard? Until when?

Most off-peak tickets aren't valid in the morning rush-hour. This won't
apply to a Standard Open Return, and might not apply to a Saver (but
you'd need to ask for the latter).

The big fuss was about new restrictions from London in the evening peak.
This won't affect your plans.


For future reference here's a link to the FCC peak time ticket
restrictions leaflet:
http://www.firstcapitalconnect.co.uk/uploads/homepage/DL_Leaflet.pdf
(These are the revised restrictions - i.e. those currently in force -
originally FCC were going to include more stations in the off-peak
ticket ban but changed this after a torrent of complaints.)

There have been multiple threads on uk.railway (and possibly here as
well) regarding how to get around these restrictions - in essence they
would seem to be somewhat incongruous with standard ticketing
conditions.

Probably stupid routing question - London, Cambridge and Norwich
 

Tom Anderson wrote:
Evening all,

If i buy a ticket from London to Norwich, can i go via Cambridge, and, if
it's a standard open return, can i break my journey there on both legs?

I want to cycle from London to Cambridge on saturday morning, take the
train to Norwich in the evening, take it back to Cambridge on sunday
morning, then come back to London on sunday evening. I'm thinking a single
big London - Norwich return is likely to be cheaper than a Cambridge -
Norwich return and a Cambridge - London single.

Oh, and by 'London', i probably mean 'Finsbury Park'.


Co-incidentally a journey I make sometimes (living in Finsbury Park). I
was going to Wymondham usually and its often quicker to go London -
Cambridge - Wymondham than via Norwich. Is it quicker to go that way
to Norwich?

Francis

Probably stupid routing question - London, Cambridge and Norwich
 

wrote

Co-incidentally a journey I make sometimes (living in Finsbury Park). I
was going to Wymondham usually and its often quicker to go London -
Cambridge - Wymondham than via Norwich. Is it quicker to go that way
to Norwich?

London to Norwich is quicker on the through trains from Liverpool Street via
Ipswich.

Peter

Probably stupid routing question - London, Cambridge and Norwich
 

wrote:

Clive D. W. Feather wrote:
you should
check (I'm not on line at the moment, so can't). Also look into the
Anglia Ranger, or whatever it's called now, which is valid from
Cambridge to Norwich and puts a cap on off-peak fares.

The Anglia Ranger/Rover thingie is a day ticket (ten quid I think) so
would be ideal if you weren't staying the night in Norwich. But if you
are, it may not help much. There was talk of a five quid print-your-own
online fare from Cambridge to Liverpool St (or maybe Tottenham Hale in
your case).

Print@Home tickets - see https://www.printtraintickets.com/ or
https://www.printtraintickets.com/one for the 'one' specific site.

Though getting off early at Tottenham Hale would be against the rules -
though you could well get away with it as long as there's not any RPIs
there. There doesn't appear to be any specific restriction about using
a bike with a Print@Home ticket, but I dunno what the story is with
regards to bikes on 'one' trains from Cambridge to London - if you need
a reservation they might not give you one if you've got this cheap
ticket, however there appears to be nothing in the T&Cs about cycles.

(Every time I read, write or hear the absurd name of that train company
I imagine the absurd National Express Group board meeting where the
directors approved the name following a persuasive presentation by some
hyper-ambitious self promoting over-compensated brand consultants who'd
spent no time considering how it would work - or not work - in the real
world. I guess the 'Operated by National Express' explanation appealed
to their vanity, and that - combined with the idea that 'one' was
unifying three old franchises - meant that they thought it was a
clever, tricksy name. But in the real world it's just ridiculous.)

-----
BBC News - "Rail firm's 'one' confusing name"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/3686593.stm

Probably stupid routing question - London, Cambridge and Norwich
 

No need for cycle reservations, at least south of Cambridge, although
the times you can take them on trains is getting a bit more
restrictive.

Mizter T wrote:
Print@Home tickets - see https://www.printtraintickets.com/ or
https://www.printtraintickets.com/one for the 'one' specific site.

Though getting off early at Tottenham Hale would be against the rules -
though you could well get away with it as long as there's not any RPIs
there. There doesn't appear to be any specific restriction about using
a bike with a Print@Home ticket, but I dunno what the story is with
regards to bikes on 'one' trains from Cambridge to London - if you need
a reservation they might not give you one if you've got this cheap
ticket, however there appears to be nothing in the T&Cs about cycles.

Probably stupid routing question - London, Cambridge and Norwich
 

In message .com, at
00:22:49 on Wed, 11 Oct 2006, remarked:
There was talk of a five quid print-your-own online fare from Cambridge
to Liverpool St (or maybe Tottenham Hale in your case).

They exist, but only on a few trains a day - and you aren't allowed to
stop short.

Currently 'one' are offering no weekend tickets at all. Weekday
departures from Cambridge within the scheme are the 09:51, 18:21 & 19:45
--
Roland Perry

Probably stupid routing question - London, Cambridge and Norwich
 

In article .com,
writes
you should
check (I'm not on line at the moment, so can't). Also look into the
Anglia Ranger, or whatever it's called now, which is valid from
Cambridge to Norwich and puts a cap on off-peak fares.
The Anglia Ranger/Rover thingie is a day ticket (ten quid I think)

I thought there was a multi-day version as well.

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

Probably stupid routing question - London, Cambridge and Norwich
 

Clive D. W. Feather wrote:

In article .com,
writes
you should
check (I'm not on line at the moment, so can't). Also look into the
Anglia Ranger, or whatever it's called now, which is valid from
Cambridge to Norwich and puts a cap on off-peak fares.
The Anglia Ranger/Rover thingie is a day ticket (ten quid I think)

I thought there was a multi-day version as well.


The ticket I think everyone is referring to is now called the Anglia
Plus - if so, Clive's right, as it comes in one-day and three-day
flavours at £11 or £22 respectively.

http://www.onerailway.com/timetable/tickets/angliaplus.asp

Probably stupid routing question - London, Cambridge and Norwich
 

In article om,
(Mizter T) wrote:

Clive D. W. Feather wrote:

In article
.com,
writes
you should check (I'm not on line at the moment, so can't). Also
look into the Anglia Ranger, or whatever it's called now, which
is valid from Cambridge to Norwich and puts a cap on off-peak
fares.
The Anglia Ranger/Rover thingie is a day ticket (ten quid I
think)

I thought there was a multi-day version as well.

The ticket I think everyone is referring to is now called the Anglia
Plus - if so, Clive's right, as it comes in one-day and three-day
flavours at £11 or £22 respectively.

http://www.onerailway.com/timetable/tickets/angliaplus.asp

This makes it clear that Anglia Plus can't be used South of Cambridge or
Ipswich. Still might be part of the answer, though. Railcard discounts
are available on the £22.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Probably stupid routing question - London, Cambridge and Norwich
 

In article .com,
() wrote:

No need for cycle reservations, at least south of Cambridge,
although the times you can take them on trains is getting a bit more
restrictive.

The bike restrictions have not changed since BR days. It's why First's
new restrictions have had so little effect on my own travel patterns.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Probably stupid routing question - London, Cambridge and Norwich
 

Tom Anderson wrote:
I want to cycle from London to Cambridge on saturday morning, take the
train to Norwich in the evening, take it back to Cambridge on sunday
morning, then come back to London on sunday evening. I'm thinking a single
big London - Norwich return is likely to be cheaper than a Cambridge -
Norwich return and a Cambridge - London single.

As you will discover, it is often not the case that one big ticket is
cheaper than a combination of tickets. In fact it's often cheaper to
'split' tickets in this way, especially if undertaking a day return
over a journey where day returns are not available (although I realise
that's not the case here).

A London-Norwich SOR is 66GBP.

London-Cambridge SOR is 35.80GBP
Cambridge-Norwich SOR is 20.90GBP

But you don't need a return from London-cambridge if you are cycling
one way, and there is no need for a SOR for Cambridge-Norwich; a Saver
will do fine.

A Cambridge-London SDS is 17.90GBP (CDS 17.50GBP), and a
Cambridge-Norwich SVR is only 16.70

So you only need to spend 17.50 + 16.70 = 34.20GBP (A saving of 31.80
off the London-Norwich SOR!)

Probably stupid routing question - London, Cambridge and Norwich
 

In article .com,
(Yorkie) wrote:

Tom Anderson wrote:
I want to cycle from London to Cambridge on saturday morning,
take the train to Norwich in the evening, take it back to Cambridge
on sunday morning, then come back to London on sunday evening. I'm
thinking a single big London - Norwich return is likely to be
cheaper than a Cambridge - Norwich return and a Cambridge - London
single.

As you will discover, it is often not the case that one big ticket
is cheaper than a combination of tickets. In fact it's often cheaper to
'split' tickets in this way, especially if undertaking a day return
over a journey where day returns are not available (although I
realise that's not the case here).

A London-Norwich SOR is 66GBP.

London-Cambridge SOR is 35.80GBP
Cambridge-Norwich SOR is 20.90GBP

But you don't need a return from London-cambridge if you are cycling
one way, and there is no need for a SOR for Cambridge-Norwich; a
Saver will do fine.

An Anglia Day Ranger would be cheaper at a tenner each way.

A Cambridge-London SDS is 17.90GBP (CDS 17.50GBP), and a
Cambridge-Norwich SVR is only 16.70

So you only need to spend 17.50 + 16.70 = 34.20GBP (A saving of
31.80 off the London-Norwich SOR!)

Or less.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Probably stupid routing question - London, Cambridge and Norwich
 

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:
An Anglia Day Ranger would be cheaper at a tenner each way.

A Cambridge-London SDS is 17.90GBP (CDS 17.50GBP), and a
Cambridge-Norwich SVR is only 16.70

So you only need to spend 17.50 + 16.70 = 34.20GBP (A saving of
31.80 off the London-Norwich SOR!)

Or less.

Except that we discovered the Day Ranger is now eleven quid. The Saver
is better if he's staying the night in Norwich.

Probably stupid routing question - London, Cambridge and Norwich
 

On Tue, 10 Oct 2006, Tom Anderson wrote:

If i buy a ticket from London to Norwich, can i go via Cambridge, and,
if it's a standard open return, can i break my journey there on both
legs?

And the outcome of all this is that i've decided ...

.... not to to go Norwich.

It would have been for a party where i wouldn't have known most of the
people, and which would have left me too knackered to make good use of the
sunday i'll be spending with my girlfriend. So quite silly.

Thanks for all the input, though! This Anglia Rover business is worth
knowing about, and i am happy to understand the FCC restrictions better.

tom

--
the meaning is the illocutionary force of interrogativeness with no
propositional content -- Geoffrey K. Pullum

Probably stupid routing question - London, Cambridge and Norwich
 

In article . com,
() wrote:

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:
An Anglia Day Ranger would be cheaper at a tenner each way.

A Cambridge-London SDS is 17.90GBP (CDS 17.50GBP), and a
Cambridge-Norwich SVR is only 16.70

So you only need to spend 17.50 + 16.70 = 34.20GBP (A saving of
31.80 off the London-Norwich SOR!)

Or less.

Except that we discovered the Day Ranger is now eleven quid. The
Saver is better if he's staying the night in Norwich.

The Anglia *Plus* is £11 but is the Anglia Day Ranger? My daughter
thought not tonight but she gets YP Railcard prices and may have got it
wrong.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Probably stupid routing question - London, Cambridge and Norwich
 

In article ,
says...
In article . com,
() wrote:

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:


Except that we discovered the Day Ranger is now eleven quid. The
Saver is better if he's staying the night in Norwich.

The Anglia *Plus* is £11 but is the Anglia Day Ranger? My daughter
thought not tonight but she gets YP Railcard prices and may have got it
wrong.


That is what the Day Ranger became. £7.25 with an Old Git card.