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Stratford Regional
The link below provides recent (09/06) info about TfL current proposals for
Stratford Regional, the existing domestic station, following the forthcoming DLR changes. There are now additional platforms for the NLL, major changes to the subways, ticket halls, and an additional westbound Central line platfom allowing exit on both sides of the train. http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/initiative...ord/scheme.asp Might be more logical to renumber the platform faces 1-19 though! Hope it is of interest |
Stratford Regional
"Paul Scott" wrote in
: The link below provides recent (09/06) info about TfL current proposals for Stratford Regional, the existing domestic station, following the forthcoming DLR changes. There are now additional platforms for the NLL, major changes to the subways, ticket halls, and an additional westbound Central line platfom allowing exit on both sides of the train. http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/initiative...ord/scheme.asp Might be more logical to renumber the platform faces 1-19 though! Hope it is of interest What ****es me off most is when you want to go from Stratford to Liverpool Street and you have to choose between platforms 5 and 10 (so far apart). I don't suppose there's any way that the new scheme will mean that all the trains that do this last stop of the route will end up at the same platform, is there? |
Stratford Regional
Tristán White wrote: "Paul Scott" wrote in : The link below provides recent (09/06) info about TfL current proposals for Stratford Regional, the existing domestic station, following the forthcoming DLR changes. There are now additional platforms for the NLL, major changes to the subways, ticket halls, and an additional westbound Central line platfom allowing exit on both sides of the train. http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/initiative...ord/scheme.asp Might be more logical to renumber the platform faces 1-19 though! Hope it is of interest What ****es me off most is when you want to go from Stratford to Liverpool Street and you have to choose between platforms 5 and 10 (so far apart). I think it's 9, but it's the same island, far from platform 5. I don't suppose there's any way that the new scheme will mean that all the trains that do this last stop of the route will end up at the same platform, is there? Nah, just get the Central Line. This reminds me of a time under FGE when I was getting a train the other way which was shown on the screen as running from platform 10, but when I got there I noticed that there were some of those yellow things with red lights on the track just beyond the platform. I went to platform 8 where some staff were, and they apparently had no idea about it, although the blocks must have been there for several hours (it was late morning). Next thing is they are announcing the train as about to arrive at platform 10 (pretty sure it was a local announcement). Being dubious about this, I decided to head for the train arriving at platform 8, but many people were still on platform 10. The announcement of the platform change was made just as the train left, with me on it and everyone else still on platform 10. At a station where announcements are made claiming that trains are running on tracks that have been physically blocked all morning, I don't think there's much hope of ever knowing where to stand. |
Stratford Regional
"Tristán White" wrote I don't suppose there's any way that the new scheme will mean that all the trains that do this last stop of the route will end up at the same platform, is there? Of course not. The last reorganisation of the tracks and platforms at Stratford was done with the specific purpose of allowing trains on the main lines to call there. Before that, "all the trains that do this last stop of the route", as you put it, did call at the same platform, while others (including some that now stop) went past on a non-platform line. |
Stratford Regional
Paul Scott wrote:
The link below provides recent (09/06) info about TfL current proposals for Stratford Regional, the existing domestic station, following the forthcoming DLR changes. There are now additional platforms for the NLL, major changes to the subways, ticket halls, and an additional westbound Central line platfom allowing exit on both sides of the train. http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/initiative...ord/scheme.asp Might be more logical to renumber the platform faces 1-19 though! Hope it is of interest Thanks - it certainly is. Interesting to see the old subway will be brought back into use and extended. I wonder if this will include re-opening the original ticket hall - at least as an exit. |
Stratford Regional
In message , at 14:42:45 on
Mon, 23 Oct 2006, John Salmon remarked: I don't suppose there's any way that the new scheme will mean that all the trains that do this last stop of the route will end up at the same platform, is there? Of course not. The last reorganisation of the tracks and platforms at Stratford was done with the specific purpose of allowing trains on the main lines to call there. Before that, "all the trains that do this last stop of the route", as you put it, did call at the same platform, while others (including some that now stop) went past on a non-platform line. Is this a classic case of "be careful what you wish for"? "I want more trains to stop at Stratford"... "... but I didn't expect that to be delivered by two platforms half a mile apart". -- Roland Perry |
Stratford Regional
Tristán White wrote:
What ****es me off most is when you want to go from Stratford to Liverpool Street and you have to choose between platforms 5 and 10 (so far apart). IIRC most trains to LST from Stratford which are on the Up Main (P9) are Set Down Only. P5 is the Up Electric which are the ones you should board. |
Stratford Regional
Paul Scott wrote:
and an additional westbound Central line platfom allowing exit on both sides of the train. Presumably the best way they can see to reduce overcrowding on the 3-5 island. On the NR side the platform space is scarily narrow and very difficult to move along at peak hours. Hopefully they'll also get round to putting in some decent information - on platforms 6 & 8 there are no NR monitors at the east end, with the result that many passengers for Forest Gate have no idea if the peak hour train pulling in stops there. (On platform announcements are rare and have a tendency to get drowned out by TfL no smoking announcements, whilst the on train announcements at peak hours are invariably over before the passengers can actually get on. And to confused matters further the change from a train timetable to a "next train to" sheet means that only the latter part of the alphabet is shown at that end.) |
Stratford Regional
Tristán White wrote:
What ****es me off most is when you want to go from Stratford to Liverpool Street and you have to choose between platforms 5 and 10 (so far apart). Try the general mess there and beyond whereby stopping trains routinely switch between the stopping tracks (5 & 8 at Stratford) and fast (9 & 10). I've known passengers at Forest Gate to walk across the line because the train comes into a different platform from the one advertised and announced, station staff using the PA system to tell drivers to wait whilst passengers change platform, stroppy deaf workmen thinking platform 4 is closed and not understanding why so many passengers want to get on it in a hurry, and many a frantic dash (and accident) as people rush to change. Plus when the stopping services use platforms 9 & 10 it causes chaos for everyone at Stratford trying to be in the "right part of the train" for exit at their destination. |
Stratford Regional
Great Eastern wrote:
What ****es me off most is when you want to go from Stratford to Liverpool Street and you have to choose between platforms 5 and 10 (so far apart). IIRC most trains to LST from Stratford which are on the Up Main (P9) are Set Down Only. P5 is the Up Electric which are the ones you should board. Not totally - a lot of services seem to switch between the fast and stopping tracks with scant regard for this. It's not even consistent where on the line they switch. |
Stratford Regional
"Tim Roll-Pickering" wrote in message ... Paul Scott wrote: and an additional westbound Central line platfom allowing exit on both sides of the train. Presumably the best way they can see to reduce overcrowding on the 3-5 island. On the NR side the platform space is scarily narrow and very difficult to move along at peak hours. It looks as though it will give much better interchange from the westbound Central Line to DLR (to Poplar, etc, when DLR moves to its new platforms), Jubilee Line, DLR (Stratford International - Canning Town line) and buses, while retaining good interchange from the Shenfield line to the Central Line. peter |
Stratford Regional
Great Eastern wrote in
: Tristán White wrote: What ****es me off most is when you want to go from Stratford to Liverpool Street and you have to choose between platforms 5 and 10 (so far apart). IIRC most trains to LST from Stratford which are on the Up Main (P9) are Set Down Only. P5 is the Up Electric which are the ones you should board. LOL have you or anyone else you have ever known ever followed the "Set Down Only" rule? Honestly! If people are getting off, people will get on. It's human nature. |
Stratford Regional
"MIG" wrote in
ups.com: I think it's 9, but it's the same island, far from platform 5. I've used 10 on a number of occasions! |
Stratford Regional
Peter Masson wrote:
"Tim Roll-Pickering" wrote in message ... Paul Scott wrote: and an additional westbound Central line platfom allowing exit on both sides of the train. Presumably the best way they can see to reduce overcrowding on the 3-5 island. On the NR side the platform space is scarily narrow and very difficult to move along at peak hours. It looks as though it will give much better interchange from the westbound Central Line to DLR (to Poplar, etc, when DLR moves to its new platforms), Jubilee Line, DLR (Stratford International - Canning Town line) and buses, while retaining good interchange from the Shenfield line to the Central Line. This must be the first LU example of two platform faces for capacity reasons rather than for terminating trains (DLR already offering both intentions in the same station at Canary Wharf). Being unfamiliar with Stratford, I'm trying to understand the level changes in the diagram. My impression from the diagrams is that currently access to the Jubilee line is directly from the existing ticket hall, but access to the current NLL/new DLR cannot be, because the tracks pass over the hall. So how do you reach the new DLR platforms? -- Dave Arquati www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London |
Stratford Regional
On Mon, 23 Oct 2006 21:37:31 +0100, Dave Arquati
wrote: Peter Masson wrote: "Tim Roll-Pickering" wrote in message ... Paul Scott wrote: and an additional westbound Central line platfom allowing exit on both sides of the train. Presumably the best way they can see to reduce overcrowding on the 3-5 island. On the NR side the platform space is scarily narrow and very difficult to move along at peak hours. It looks as though it will give much better interchange from the westbound Central Line to DLR (to Poplar, etc, when DLR moves to its new platforms), Jubilee Line, DLR (Stratford International - Canning Town line) and buses, while retaining good interchange from the Shenfield line to the Central Line. This must be the first LU example of two platform faces for capacity reasons rather than for terminating trains (DLR already offering both intentions in the same station at Canary Wharf). Being unfamiliar with Stratford, I'm trying to understand the level changes in the diagram. My impression from the diagrams is that currently access to the Jubilee line is directly from the existing ticket hall, but access to the current NLL/new DLR cannot be, because the tracks pass over the hall. So how do you reach the new DLR platforms? Err the new DLR Platforms (I assume you mean those to Bow Church) will be reached off the existing mezzanine level which you use if you exit the Jubilee Line and wish to reach the street. You go through the interchange gateline, up the escalator / steps turn right, go over the current NLL tracks / future DLR Stratford International line and then down steps and out via the perimeter gateline. The NLL line tracks currently split the main ticket hall from the Jubilee Line and when heading north run through the middle of the station in a box. It is an unusual arrangement. Those drawings look fairly similar to some early schemes I saw at work that showed how the Stratford City Development would fit in round the existing station. I had not seen the proposed extra Central Line platform but was aware of where it would be - this is essentially an Olympics issue due to capacity and congestion concerns. I think there are concerns about dwell times being longer in normal operation than now so whether it helps overall Central Line capacity is maybe a moot point. The extra mezzanine ticket hall next to the platform 3A is new to me - the very dispersed nature of the ticket halls in this station is going to make it very expensive to operate if there have to be staff at all locations. -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
Stratford Regional
Paul Corfield wrote:
On Mon, 23 Oct 2006 21:37:31 +0100, Dave Arquati wrote: Peter Masson wrote: "Tim Roll-Pickering" wrote in message ... Paul Scott wrote: and an additional westbound Central line platfom allowing exit on both sides of the train. Presumably the best way they can see to reduce overcrowding on the 3-5 island. On the NR side the platform space is scarily narrow and very difficult to move along at peak hours. It looks as though it will give much better interchange from the westbound Central Line to DLR (to Poplar, etc, when DLR moves to its new platforms), Jubilee Line, DLR (Stratford International - Canning Town line) and buses, while retaining good interchange from the Shenfield line to the Central Line. This must be the first LU example of two platform faces for capacity reasons rather than for terminating trains (DLR already offering both intentions in the same station at Canary Wharf). Being unfamiliar with Stratford, I'm trying to understand the level changes in the diagram. My impression from the diagrams is that currently access to the Jubilee line is directly from the existing ticket hall, but access to the current NLL/new DLR cannot be, because the tracks pass over the hall. So how do you reach the new DLR platforms? Err the new DLR Platforms (I assume you mean those to Bow Church) will be reached off the existing mezzanine level which you use if you exit the Jubilee Line and wish to reach the street. You go through the interchange gateline, up the escalator / steps turn right, go over the current NLL tracks / future DLR Stratford International line and then down steps and out via the perimeter gateline. The NLL line tracks currently split the main ticket hall from the Jubilee Line and when heading north run through the middle of the station in a box. It is an unusual arrangement. Actually I meant the new DLR Stratford Int'l line, although now I understand how the ticket hall works. Will these be accessed on the level from the ticket hall (on either side of the box)? Those drawings look fairly similar to some early schemes I saw at work that showed how the Stratford City Development would fit in round the existing station. I had not seen the proposed extra Central Line platform but was aware of where it would be - this is essentially an Olympics issue due to capacity and congestion concerns. I think there are concerns about dwell times being longer in normal operation than now so whether it helps overall Central Line capacity is maybe a moot point. The extra mezzanine ticket hall next to the platform 3A is new to me - the very dispersed nature of the ticket halls in this station is going to make it very expensive to operate if there have to be staff at all locations. -- Dave Arquati www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London |
Stratford Regional
"Dave Arquati" wrote Being unfamiliar with Stratford, I'm trying to understand the level changes in the diagram. My impression from the diagrams is that currently access to the Jubilee line is directly from the existing ticket hall, but access to the current NLL/new DLR cannot be, because the tracks pass over the hall. So how do you reach the new DLR platforms? Access to the westbound NLL platform is from the Jubilee Line ticket hall, but to the eastbound is via a footbridge. Access to the new DLR Poplar platforms, and the new westbound Central Line platform will be from the mezzanine of the ticket hall. Peter |
Stratford Regional
On Mon, 23 Oct 2006 22:01:19 +0100, Dave Arquati
wrote: Paul Corfield wrote: The NLL line tracks currently split the main ticket hall from the Jubilee Line and when heading north run through the middle of the station in a box. It is an unusual arrangement. Actually I meant the new DLR Stratford Int'l line, although now I understand how the ticket hall works. Will these be accessed on the level from the ticket hall (on either side of the box)? Yes - as the NLL is now. S/B direct from street level ticket hall once through the gateline. N/B to Stratford International is "up and over" as per current access to Jubilee Line and to N/B NLL. As the DLR's traction current supply is incompatible with anything else the NLL has to be pushed up to the new platform 12 area (effectively via the freight tracks on to the main line). The DLR takes over a shortish section of the current NLL and then there is a new alignment to reach the International Station and possibly beyond towards Leyton (if the potential alignment is protected in the design of the Olympic site and later development). It is very odd to see trains effectively travelling through the middle of a ticket hall but given the position of the Jubilee Line tracks there was little option. Believe me we went through many, many variants of Stratford's design when it was at the detailed planning stage. -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
Stratford Regional
"Dave Arquati" wrote in message ... It looks as though it will give much better interchange from the westbound Central Line to DLR (to Poplar, etc, when DLR moves to its new platforms), Jubilee Line, DLR (Stratford International - Canning Town line) and buses, while retaining good interchange from the Shenfield line to the Central Line. This must be the first LU example of two platform faces for capacity reasons rather than for terminating trains (DLR already offering both intentions in the same station at Canary Wharf). Being unfamiliar with Stratford, I'm trying to understand the level changes in the diagram. My impression from the diagrams is that currently access to the Jubilee line is directly from the existing ticket hall, but access to the current NLL/new DLR cannot be, because the tracks pass over the hall. So how do you reach the new DLR platforms? -- Dave Arquati www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London There is a mezzanine deck (yellow on the diagram) above the existing NLL platforms, if you come through the Jubilee line gateline you go up to this level and then to your right and down again, to get to the eastern gateline, and exit towards Stratford. Access to the new DLR platforms appears to be to the western end of the mezzanine deck, and on the same level. I can see it getting quite complex with all the gatelines and Oyster readers necessary..... Paul |
Stratford Regional
"Peter Masson" wrote in message ... "Dave Arquati" wrote Being unfamiliar with Stratford, I'm trying to understand the level changes in the diagram. My impression from the diagrams is that currently access to the Jubilee line is directly from the existing ticket hall, but access to the current NLL/new DLR cannot be, because the tracks pass over the hall. So how do you reach the new DLR platforms? Access to the westbound NLL platform is from the Jubilee Line ticket hall, but to the eastbound is via a footbridge. Access to the new DLR Poplar platforms, and the new westbound Central Line platform will be from the mezzanine of the ticket hall. To clarify, the ticket hall is in two parts, separated by the existing NLL tracks, and connected by the mezzanine. Peter |
Stratford Regional
"Paul Corfield" wrote in message ... It is very odd to see trains effectively travelling through the middle of a ticket hall but given the position of the Jubilee Line tracks there was little option. Believe me we went through many, many variants of Stratford's design when it was at the detailed planning stage. -- Paul C Do you know how/why they come up with the idea of having to pass through two gatelines to reach the Jubilee line from the street entrance? Paul S |
Stratford Regional
On Mon, 23 Oct 2006 22:22:49 +0100, "Paul Scott"
wrote: "Paul Corfield" wrote in message .. . It is very odd to see trains effectively travelling through the middle of a ticket hall but given the position of the Jubilee Line tracks there was little option. Believe me we went through many, many variants of Stratford's design when it was at the detailed planning stage. -- Paul C Do you know how/why they come up with the idea of having to pass through two gatelines to reach the Jubilee line from the street entrance? runs away and screams There was a policy decision that said the JLE was to be gated off from other lines (where feasible). Originally Stratford was going to have a completely separate route from the street level ticket hall to the JL platforms. The route where the interchange gateline would only have been accessible from BR / DLR / Central Line platforms. I think LU was unable to secure the land to construct the bridge link to provide the street to JL unique link (I think Railtrack were being particularly awkward) so we ended up with the mezzanine "up and over" design. We argued like hell about the interchange gateline as it is unique - it took a long time for people to realise the coding and validation issues it would create. However once it was drawn on the architect's plan it was going to be built. And as for plans drawn up for other locations to create the same "barriered off from everything" approach you would not believe the nonsenses we had to deal with. I still disagree with the idea to this day! -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
Stratford Regional
"Peter Masson" wrote in message ... "Tim Roll-Pickering" wrote in message ... Paul Scott wrote: and an additional westbound Central line platfom allowing exit on both sides of the train. Presumably the best way they can see to reduce overcrowding on the 3-5 island. On the NR side the platform space is scarily narrow and very difficult to move along at peak hours. It looks as though it will give much better interchange from the westbound Central Line to DLR (to Poplar, etc, when DLR moves to its new platforms), Jubilee Line, DLR (Stratford International - Canning Town line) and buses, while retaining good interchange from the Shenfield line to the Central Line. This change I did not expect but will be welcome when it appears, despite the mess the station will be in while all this happens. There is a lot of movement from the w/b Central Line trains in the mornings and most of that goes down to the Jubilee and NLL platforms. AFAICT very few people take the mainline to Liverpool St from there. Nick -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
Stratford Regional
Dave Arquati wrote:
This must be the first LU example of two platform faces for capacity reasons rather than for terminating trains (DLR already offering both intentions in the same station at Canary Wharf). I'd have to look it up, but do *all* the existing two platform faces only exist at what were built to be terminals? Being unfamiliar with Stratford, I'm trying to understand the level changes in the diagram. My impression from the diagrams is that currently access to the Jubilee line is directly from the existing ticket hall, but access to the current NLL/new DLR cannot be, because the tracks pass over the hall. So how do you reach the new DLR platforms? In addition to what everyone else has said, the Central Line dives back underground very early - almost literally at the end of the platform and the westbound hole is right next to the current DLR bay (platform 4). Will there be a direct route from the old DLR platform to the new ones? The current interchange with the stopping services is very convenient and redirecting passengers through tunnels (or worse still, trying to use Central Line trains as a bridge) would undermine a lot of improvements. |
Stratford Regional
Nick Pedley wrote:
There is a lot of movement from the w/b Central Line trains in the mornings and most of that goes down to the Jubilee and NLL platforms. AFAICT very few people take the mainline to Liverpool St from there. There's not really much point - once you factor in time waiting on the platform at Stratford it's about as quick to stay on the Central Line to Liverpool Street. |
Interchange-only gatelines/barriers and zonal fares
On Oct 23, 10:34 pm, Paul Corfield wrote: runs away and screams There was a policy decision that said the JLE was to be gated off from other lines (where feasible). Originally Stratford was going to have a completely separate route from the street level ticket hall to the JL platforms. The route where the interchange gateline would only have been accessible from BR / DLR / Central Line platforms. I remember asking about this in 2004, and the answer given was that the JLE was gated specifically as an anti-fraud measure, to ensure that anyone coming off the GE main line or the NLL would have a valid ticket. Will the introduction of zonal fares result in more of these 'interchange' gatelines, to keep people from buying out-of-zone tickets, boarding at ungated NR stations and then using the various unbarriered gaps to 'get in' to the LU system? I think LU was unable to secure the land to construct the bridge link to provide the street to JL unique link (I think Railtrack were being particularly awkward) so we ended up with the mezzanine "up and over" design. We argued like hell about the interchange gateline as it is unique - it took a long time for people to realise the coding and validation issues it would create. However once it was drawn on the architect's plan it was going to be built. I always thought that there was supposed to be an extra entrance on the west side of the station, where the internal ticket office was - the empty part of the mezzanine seemed to confirm this. Now, knowing that the mezzanine will have direct access to the ungated DLR, I suspect that this 'interchange' gateline will be lauded as joined-up foresight! ;-) And as for plans drawn up for other locations to create the same "barriered off from everything" approach you would not believe the nonsenses we had to deal with. Is this why West Ham has so many long straight passageways? Were there plans to stick a gateline in the overbridge on top of the NLL platforms? I still disagree with the idea to this day! Agreed! It still feels 'wrong' to pass through a gateline when heading for the Central Line or to the street. |
Stratford Regional
Paul Corfield wrote:
On Mon, 23 Oct 2006 22:22:49 +0100, "Paul Scott" wrote: "Paul Corfield" wrote in message .. . It is very odd to see trains effectively travelling through the middle of a ticket hall but given the position of the Jubilee Line tracks there was little option. Believe me we went through many, many variants of Stratford's design when it was at the detailed planning stage. -- Paul C Do you know how/why they come up with the idea of having to pass through two gatelines to reach the Jubilee line from the street entrance? runs away and screams There was a policy decision that said the JLE was to be gated off from other lines (where feasible). Originally Stratford was going to have a completely separate route from the street level ticket hall to the JL platforms. The route where the interchange gateline would only have been accessible from BR / DLR / Central Line platforms. I think LU was unable to secure the land to construct the bridge link to provide the street to JL unique link (I think Railtrack were being particularly awkward) so we ended up with the mezzanine "up and over" design. We argued like hell about the interchange gateline as it is unique - it took a long time for people to realise the coding and validation issues it would create. However once it was drawn on the architect's plan it was going to be built. And as for plans drawn up for other locations to create the same "barriered off from everything" approach you would not believe the nonsenses we had to deal with. I still disagree with the idea to this day! -- Paul C Ouch - a sore point then! Thanks for explaining the Stratford two-barrier anomaly from the inside. I always presumed it was just a revenue protection exercise - well, it is, but I didn't realise that some in LU had the idea of trying to roll this out elsewhere. The situation at Stratford does mean that when you go from the street to the JLE platforms through the two gatelines you do end up with a slightly confusing Oyster journey history where Stratford is mentioned twice (though the fare charged is correct of course). I can see some advantages to the idea - after all interchange stations such as Stratford can mean the LU network is wide open to fare-evaders who start at an open NR station. But as there are so many possible points of entry guarding against them all would be wholly impractical. Regarding the discussion in another thread - having "internal gatelines" such as at Stratford could arguably address some (but only some) of the issues which will be encountered when PAYG is fully rolled out on NR, though it would by no means be a complete solution and would only be practical at some locations. In fact it would be a mess and very impractical. Is the "barriered off from everything" logic at play when it comes to the gateline between Southwark (JLE) and Waterloo East, or is it a case of planning permission and/or passenger flow issues that means that the street entrance to Southwark tube doesn't double as an entrance to Waterloo East? It seems that the demand to use the Southwark street entrance by Waterloo East passengers was so great that NR-only season ticket holders can actually get a pass merely to let them in and out of the Southwark station barriers so the can get out the street entrance (I'm certain I've seen some notice to this effect displayed at Southwark but I've never read anything else about it anywhere). |
Stratford Regional
Mizter T wrote:
Paul Corfield wrote: There was a policy decision that said the JLE was to be gated off from other lines (where feasible). Originally Stratford was going to have a completely separate route from the street level ticket hall to the JL platforms. The route where the interchange gateline would only have been accessible from BR / DLR / Central Line platforms. How would this have worked for the North London Line northbound? Regarding the discussion in another thread - having "internal gatelines" such as at Stratford could arguably address some (but only some) of the issues which will be encountered when PAYG is fully rolled out on NR, though it would by no means be a complete solution and would only be practical at some locations. In fact it would be a mess and very impractical. Indeed - look no further than the rest of Stratford. Any attempt to even paint a "this PAYG territory" line would be so utterly messy. As it's the station I usually use to enter the tube network it's no wonder I find the Oyster "always touch in at the start and touch out at the end of 'your journey'" system a mess. Currently by my reckoning the only journeys where an interchange at Stratford can change the number of zones used is travelling from the Central Line east of Stratford to the District in zone 3 or further east. You can either have a direct interchange at Mile End (zone 2) or travel via Stratford to West Ham (all zone 3). The existance of the North London Line for this route, with PAYG valid there, means that at the moment the barriers are nominally meaningless and I believe the PAYG fare assumes zone 3 interchanges. But when the NLL is cut back to Stratford one will *only* be able to avoid zone 2 on that route if you go through those gates - could TfL operate this as a tester to see if the system can recognise different routes at different prices? |
Stratford Regional
"Tim Roll-Pickering" wrote in message ... Dave Arquati wrote: This must be the first LU example of two platform faces for capacity reasons rather than for terminating trains (DLR already offering both intentions in the same station at Canary Wharf). I'd have to look it up, but do *all* the existing two platform faces only exist at what were built to be terminals? There is a double platform face on the eastbound District at Barking, LU train doors open on both sides, on the north side allowing interchange with the Gospel Oak/Barking line bay platform. Paul |
Stratford Regional
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Stratford Regional
John Rowland wrote: Is that the beautiful but sad staircase in a cage? Yes, that's it. This subway served platforms from 9 to 12/13. From what I can make out from old drawings, 3/4/5 did not exist before the rebuilding for the Central Line, so the long subway under 3/5 was probably built at this time. This subway led to the stairs up to the platform, just above the words 'New Westbound' on the new platform level drawing. There was a doorway to the left which led onto the low-level, and a short subway to the right serving platforms 6, 7 (never used) and 8. During the last rebuilding this subway was extended as ffar as platform 12, and the old subway closed. For a while both were open, and you could make a circular walk. Finally, the new subway to the West of the low-level lines, serving 3-10 was opened. What is now 9/10 was extended a considerable distance, it used to end not far from where 10a does now. I am not clear how what is now 6/8 was reached prior to 1949, mayde there was a stairway from the old subway behind one of the closed doors. This platform was also much shorter until the time of the electrification and Central Line extension. |
Stratford Regional
"Stephen Furley" wrote in message ups.com... John Rowland wrote: Is that the beautiful but sad staircase in a cage? Yes, that's it. This subway served platforms from 9 to 12/13. From what I can make out from old drawings, 3/4/5 did not exist before the rebuilding for the Central Line, so the long subway under 3/5 was probably built at this time. This subway led to the stairs up to the platform, just above the words 'New Westbound' on the new platform level drawing. There was a doorway to the left which led onto the low-level, and a short subway to the right serving platforms 6, 7 (never used) and 8. During the last rebuilding this subway was extended as ffar as platform 12, and the old subway closed. For a while both were open, and you could make a circular walk. Finally, the new subway to the West of the low-level lines, serving 3-10 was opened. What is now 9/10 was extended a considerable distance, it used to end not far from where 10a does now. I am not clear how what is now 6/8 was reached prior to 1949, mayde there was a stairway from the old subway behind one of the closed doors. This platform was also much shorter until the time of the electrification and Central Line extension. From what I can make out of an old (1915) drawing, what are now platforms 10 and 10a served the old slow lines, and what is now 9 served the down fast. The up fast was a through line with no platform, but there was an up passenger loop served by a platform more or less on the site of present 6/8. This was further east than the other platforms, which were of course in the fork between the Colchester and Cambridge lines, as west of this platform there were connections to the goods depot and a double- (or even triple-)track spur from the Ilford to the North Woolwich direction. This platform presumably linked with the low level platforms. There was also a double-track spur east of the station from the Liverpool Street to the North Woolwich direction; this was used by through passenger trains which could not therefore call at Stratford but instead served Stratford Market station. Two short bay platforms are apparent, a down bay as the opposite face of the up passsenger loop platform, and a bay, more of a dock really, in the fork between platforms 10a and 11. It's not at all clear where the main entrance and ticket office were - the station was served by Station Road, leading from Angel Lane into the fork between the Colchester and Cambridge lines, and by Station Street, leading from the High Street to the south side of the station. In understanding this, it needs to be remembered that in 1949 Ilford flyover was built, and west of there what had been the slow lines became the Main Lines, and what had been the Fast Lines became the Electric (or Slow) Lines, which served the new platforms at Stratford. It's also worth remembering that, until LT took over the Loughton lines, platforms 11-13 were served by an intensive steam suburban service from Liverpool Street and Fenchurch Street to Loughton, Epping and Ongar (well, never that intensive out to Ongar), while trains to Newbury Park and Chigwell diverged between Ilford and Seven Kings. Peter |
Stratford Regional
Peter Masson wrote: From what I can make out of an old (1915) drawing, what are now platforms 10 and 10a served the old slow lines, and what is now 9 served the down fast. The up fast was a through line with no platform, but there was an up passenger loop served by a platform more or less on the site of present 6/8. This was further east than the other platforms, which were of course in the fork between the Colchester and Cambridge lines, as west of this platform there were connections to the goods depot and a double- (or even triple-)track spur from the Ilford to the North Woolwich direction. That sounds like the map/drawing that I've seen; it used to be on sale at the North Woolwich Old Station Museum. They also sold a small booklet in which there was a photoraph of a Diesel locomotive coming off the Eastern spur at low-level. the track was behind the buildings on platform 2, and the trackbed was still visible until fairly recent times. I don't think there were ever platforms on these lines. Don't forget the fourth route from the North Woolwich/Beckton/Gallions direction, the one which diverged from the present one at Fork Junction, just North of where the line passes under the high level, and ran through the centre of Stratford Works. Two short bay platforms are apparent, a down bay as the opposite face of the up passsenger loop platform, and a bay, more of a dock really, in the fork between platforms 10a and 11. It's not at all clear where the main entrance and ticket office were - the station was served by Station Road, leading from Angel Lane into the fork between the Colchester and Cambridge lines, and by Station Street, leading from the High Street to the south side of the station. In understanding this, it needs to be remembered that in 1949 Ilford flyover was built, and west of there what had been the slow lines became the Main Lines, and what had been the Fast Lines became the Electric (or Slow) Lines, which served the new platforms at Stratford. It's also worth remembering that, until LT took over the Loughton lines, platforms 11-13 were served by an intensive steam suburban service from Liverpool Street and Fenchurch Street to Loughton, Epping and Ongar (well, never that intensive out to Ongar), while trains to Newbury Park and Chigwell diverged between Ilford and Seven Kings. So much has changed since the War in this area; the takeover of the Loughton line by the Central, and the extension of that like from Liverpool street, the closure of the Beckton and Gallions branches, also the Silvertown tramway, and the old route over the swing bridge. The removal otf the old connection to Ilord, The withdrawal of the Broad Street to Poplar service, the closure of the Palace Gates branch, the re-opening of the line through Hackney to passengers, the joining of what had been parts of the Broad Street - Poplar and Palace Gates - North Woolwich services to the Richmond service west of Dalston when Broad Street closed. The closure of the docks lines, the closure, and partial re-instatement, of one pair of tracks between Camden and Dalston, The coming of the DLR and the JLE. I first went to North Woolwich just after the Camden Road service was introduced; you can't recognise the area today. |
Stratford Regional
Stephen Furley wrote: wrote: Thanks - it certainly is. Interesting to see the old subway will be brought back into use and extended. I wonder if this will include re-opening the original ticket hall - at least as an exit. They're re-opening the old subway which used to be the only access to platforms 9-13 as they used to be, but not the long subway under platform 3/5, which used to be the access to all of the other platforms. People who complain about the long walk between 5 and 10 must have either never used the station in those days, or forgotten about it. I remember it well. Stratford station was a real dump in the '70s and '80s, but it used to absolutely fascinate me. I remember when I first went through the place, being puzzled by what seemed to be a four-platform station, with the platforms numbered 3,5,6 and 8. then one day I got out, and discovered the low-level 1 and 2, 2 reached directly from the old subway, and 1 over the old concrete footbridge, still there I think, alongside the new one. Later I found 9, 10 (now 10a) and 11. There was no way of getting to 12 and 13, it was an island then, as the subway had been long bricked up beyond the stairs to 11. The entrance was just behind where the tank loco is now displayed, and there was a subway under Great Eastern Road, which came up inside the shopping centre. This was the only normal entrance to the shopping centre at this end, there was a door, roughly where the present ones are, but that was just a fire exit. When you walked out of the old booking hall, and up the stairs there were the remains of two old posters high up about Easter train services. The exit must have been at street level before the exit subway was built. There was also a ramp up to street level here as well as the subway leading to the shopping centre - in fact it is still there albeit disused. There was also another subway entrance leading to the loco depot but I think this is now blocked. Looking at this plan now it amazes me how tiny the original ticket hall was compared to the current and proposed facilities! Thanks too for jogging my memory about all the other passageways and stairs through this amazing place. Are the large areas at each end of the mezzanine level, beyond the stairs, to serve some useful purpose at last? They're totally wasted space at the moment. It has always seemed to me that these must have been provided in anticipation of future extensions or alterations. From the plans it appears the western end of the mezzanine will connect to the new DLR platforms and the eastern end to a new entrance on the proposed pedestrian link bridge. |
Stratford Regional
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Stratford Regional
In article .com,
Stephen Furley writes There was also another passage leaing off to the East, still in use by staff, I think this may have led to the depot. I think it did. In the 1970s I went on a school trip that included Stratford Depot. My memory is that we followed a subway from the main station. -- Clive D.W. Feather | Home: Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work: Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is: |
Stratford Regional
Clive D. W. Feather wrote:
In article .com, Stephen Furley writes There was also another passage leaing off to the East, still in use by staff, I think this may have led to the depot. I think it did. In the 1970s I went on a school trip that included Stratford Depot. My memory is that we followed a subway from the main station. The main entrance to the depot subway was on the front of the building, to the right of the passenger entrance. Between the two was the BTP office (though it didn't seem to deter many trainspotters from making their way down the tunnel). |
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