According to the free London papers, Haringey council picked up over
£3 million in fines from parking offences, bus-lane offences and
box-junction offences in Lordship Lane alone in the period of
2004-2005. It does not give a breakdown of parking offences, bus-lane
offences and box-junction offences. Lordship Lane forms part of the
A109, running between Wood Green at the High Road (A105) to Tottenham
High Road (A1010) crossing the A1080 and the A10.

1. Parking. Now from what I know of this road, there is a CPZ in Wood
Green and this covers the roads coming off Lordship Lane up to a point
but then they end pretty soon after. Where they apply, they do so on
Sundays as well and sometimes as late as 10pm. I don't recall what, if
any, the parking restrictions are like on Lordship Lane itself and how
come they may have picked up so much from this road.

2. Bus-lane and Box Junction. My guess is that this is the A1080
Boreham Road / Westbury Road / The Roundway junction (and also B155
Downhills Road).

Traffic heading Eastbound along Lordship Lane has to negotiate two
traffic lights here, the first being the junction of Boerham Road, a
one way street heading generally North East with right-turn exit only.
There is a box junction at this section, and traffic tends to fill in
all the available space (before getting held up by the traffic light
ahead) thus traffic coming from the West (Lordship Lane) often has
nowhere to go during the green signal phase. There is a bus-lane on
Lordship Lane - not sure what its hours are.

I am not familiar with Lordship Lane east of the A10. I do know there
is a school there.

Earl Purple wrote:

2. Bus-lane and Box Junction. My guess is that this is the A1080
Boreham Road / Westbury Road / The Roundway junction (and also B155
Downhills Road).

Google Maps suggests that the only box junction in Lordship Lane is at
Redvers Road, although Windows Live Local shows another at Boreham Road.
Curiously the one at Boreham Road occupies the the whole junction, although
only the southern half serves any purpose (apart from revenue gathering).

John Rowland wrote:
Earl Purple wrote:

2. Bus-lane and Box Junction. My guess is that this is the A1080
Boreham Road / Westbury Road / The Roundway junction (and also B155
Downhills Road).

Google Maps suggests that the only box junction in Lordship Lane is at
Redvers Road, although Windows Live Local shows another at Boreham Road.
Curiously the one at Boreham Road occupies the the whole junction, although
only the southern half serves any purpose (apart from revenue gathering).

I did forget about the one with Redvers Road. I recall that is also
exit only (onto Lordship Lane) and there is a bus garage there and I
think a car park too. Of course it is close to the traffic light so
Westbound traffic might get caught out if they start across into an
empty space and someone from the Redvers Road jumps out in front of
them (either turning left into the space or blocking the way to turn
right).

The problem with box junctions is that you cannot wait until the exit
is clear, you go when you think there will be an exit, i.e. traffic
will not naturally cross the box junction one at a time. Now if the
person in front goes just past the junction and stops (even if there is
space in front of them) whose fault is it?


Now if the vehicle in front of you happens

"Earl Purple" wrote in message
oups.com...

John Rowland wrote:
Earl Purple wrote:

2. Bus-lane and Box Junction. My guess is that this is the A1080
Boreham Road / Westbury Road / The Roundway junction (and also B155
Downhills Road).

Google Maps suggests that the only box junction in Lordship Lane is at
Redvers Road, although Windows Live Local shows another at Boreham Road.
Curiously the one at Boreham Road occupies the the whole junction,
although
only the southern half serves any purpose (apart from revenue gathering).

I did forget about the one with Redvers Road. I recall that is also
exit only (onto Lordship Lane) and there is a bus garage there and I
think a car park too. Of course it is close to the traffic light so
Westbound traffic might get caught out if they start across into an
empty space and someone from the Redvers Road jumps out in front of
them (either turning left into the space or blocking the way to turn
right).

The problem with box junctions is that you cannot wait until the exit
is clear, you go when you think there will be an exit, i.e. traffic
will not naturally cross the box junction one at a time. Now if the
person in front goes just past the junction and stops (even if there is
space in front of them) whose fault is it?

If one's exit is not clear (as in the example above), one is at fault for
entering the box junction. That's the whole idea of them. When there is
obviously stopped traffic ahead, drivers *should* drive over one car at a
time. Drivers should only enter when they can see enough space past the
junction for them to fit in to. Anything else should result in a ticket

d wrote:
If one's exit is not clear (as in the example above), one is at fault for
entering the box junction. That's the whole idea of them. When there is
obviously stopped traffic ahead, drivers *should* drive over one car at a
time. Drivers should only enter when they can see enough space past the
junction for them to fit in to. Anything else should result in a ticket

Assuming that the box like most is at a set of traffic lights, if
traffic only crossed one at a time, i.e. one in the box at the time,
you would not get the correct flow through the traffic light.

That there is space ahead for both the driver in front and yourself
should be enough reason to allow you to progress across behind them.
Now if they decide to stop just in front of the box instead of moving
ahead into the space available to them, they have caused you to block
needlessly.

In traffic queueing situations it is totally wrong to leave an
excessive gap between you and the vehicle in front. The highway code
tells you not to. But so many do and it really really annoys me when
the person in front of me is doing that.

"Earl Purple" wrote in message
oups.com...

d wrote:
If one's exit is not clear (as in the example above), one is at fault for
entering the box junction. That's the whole idea of them. When there is
obviously stopped traffic ahead, drivers *should* drive over one car at a
time. Drivers should only enter when they can see enough space past the
junction for them to fit in to. Anything else should result in a ticket


Assuming that the box like most is at a set of traffic lights, if
traffic only crossed one at a time, i.e. one in the box at the time,
you would not get the correct flow through the traffic light.

That there is space ahead for both the driver in front and yourself
should be enough reason to allow you to progress across behind them.
Now if they decide to stop just in front of the box instead of moving
ahead into the space available to them, they have caused you to block
needlessly.

No, going when you can't see space for you on the other side is needlessly
blocking the junction. If traffic is stop-start, as it would be in such a
situation, sending one car over the junction at a time is the only way to
ensure the junction is not blocked, as blocking the junction screws up
everyone else. When driving you can't assume anything.

In traffic queueing situations it is totally wrong to leave an
excessive gap between you and the vehicle in front. The highway code
tells you not to. But so many do and it really really annoys me when
the person in front of me is doing that.

The highway code also tells you to not block box junctions... Two wrongs
don't make a right.

Earl Purple wrote:
According to the free London papers, Haringey council picked up over
£3 million in fines from parking offences, bus-lane offences and
box-junction offences in Lordship Lane alone in the period of
2004-2005.

What the article failed to point out was that Haringey council would
have made exactly £0 if all the drivers had actually obeyed the rules.
Councils can't use cameras as revenue-raisers unless drivers let them.

Patrick

wrote:
Earl Purple wrote:
According to the free London papers, Haringey council picked up over
£3 million in fines from parking offences, bus-lane offences and
box-junction offences in Lordship Lane alone in the period of
2004-2005.

What the article failed to point out was that Haringey council would
have made exactly £0 if all the drivers had actually obeyed the rules.
Councils can't use cameras as revenue-raisers unless drivers let
them.

You're not seriously suggesting that drivers should obey the law in order to
avoid these fines are you?

What a preposterous idea!!

Brimstone wrote:

wrote:
Earl Purple wrote:
According to the free London papers, Haringey council picked up over
£3 million in fines from parking offences, bus-lane offences and
box-junction offences in Lordship Lane alone in the period of
2004-2005.

What the article failed to point out was that Haringey council would
have made exactly £0 if all the drivers had actually obeyed the rules.
Councils can't use cameras as revenue-raisers unless drivers let
them.

Out of interest did the article state whether the cameras had reduced
congestion in the area? There has been discussion on this topic in
another thread on here, with some posters agreeing that in general box
junction cameras do reduce congestion, but Nik Morgan (NM) suggesting
this is not the case.

David

) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying :

What the article failed to point out was that Haringey council would
have made exactly £0 if all the drivers had actually obeyed the rules.
Councils can't use cameras as revenue-raisers unless drivers let them.

May I refer you to the thread in uk.transport where drivers HAVE been
issued FPNs for (legitimately) crossing a bus lane?