The first bow-string arch bridge in Britain to carry a railway
 

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-cent...t.asp?prID=934

The first bow-string arch bridge in Britain to carry a railway
 

"John Rowland" wrote in message
...
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-cent...t.asp?prID=934

That's a pretty extravagant claim - isn't Stephenson's High level Bridge on
Tyneside a sextuple bowstring arch?

Paul

The first bow-string arch bridge in Britain to carry a railway
 

On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 00:35:17 -0000, "John Rowland"
wrote:

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-cent...t.asp?prID=934

Isn't there a yonks-old bowstring bridge on a disused line somewhere
up near Penrith ?

The BBC also seems to think there's an old GCR one in Leicester:-
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/actionnetwork/G1273

There's also a Great Western one apparently:-
http://www.thamesweb.co.uk/windsor/r...p01/index.html
but I'm not sure if the diagonal braces (assuming they are original)
don't take it outwith the basic spec. of a "bowstring" bridge.
--
_______
+---------------------------------------------------+ |\\ //|
| Charles Ellson: charles_AT_ellson.demon.co.uk | | \\ // |
+---------------------------------------------------+ | |
| // \\ |
Alba gu brath |//___\\|

The first bow-string arch bridge in Britain to carry a railway
 

"John Rowland" wrote in message
...

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-cent...t.asp?prID=934

So at Whitechapel the high level platforms are the Underground, and the low
level platforms will be the Overground.

Peter

The first bow-string arch bridge in Britain to carry a railway
 

In article ,
Paul Scott wrote:

"John Rowland" wrote in message
...

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-cent...t.asp?prID=934

That's a pretty extravagant claim - isn't Stephenson's High level Bridge on
Tyneside a sextuple bowstring arch?

Yep. I'm pretty sure there's an earlier example, too, but can't recall it
right now.

--
Andy Breen ~ Not speaking on behalf of the University of Wales, Aberystwyth
Feng Shui: an ancient oriental art for extracting
money from the gullible (Martin Sinclair)

The first bow-string arch bridge in Britain to carry a railway
 

Peter Masson wrote:
"John Rowland" wrote in message
...

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-cent...t.asp?prID=934

So at Whitechapel the high level platforms are the Underground, and the low
level platforms will be the Overground.

Indeed. Does anyone know if they're going to keep the East London Line
branding once the extension is completed, or will it become just
another overground link?

Also, from the link:

"Phase two will join the East London Railway to Clapham Junction and
will complete an orbital rail route around London on which London
Overground services will run, following the London 2012 Olympics."

Surely inaccurate? There won't be a single orbital rail route;
passengers will be able to complete an outer circle journey, but only
with a few changes: Clapham Junction to Willesden Junction, Willesden
Junction to Highbury & Islington, Highbury & Islington to Surrey Quays,
Surrey Quays to Clapham Junction.

Patrick

The first bow-string arch bridge in Britain to carry a railway
 

"John Rowland" wrote in message
...
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-cent...t.asp?prID=934
Rubbish. There is a bowstring arch bridge on the Sheffield Supertram system,
right in the middle of the city.

Peter Fox

The first bow-string arch bridge in Britain to carry a railway
 

"Peter Fox" wrote in message
...

"John Rowland" wrote in message
...
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-cent...t.asp?prID=934
Rubbish. There is a bowstring arch bridge on the Sheffield Supertram
system, right in the middle of the city.

Peter Fox

Do you know anyone in the TfL press office who you could remind of this -
all they had to do was a quick google - of course they probably have a
'London only' version, like the DfT...

Paul

The first bow-string arch bridge in Britain to carry a railway
 

Paul Scott wrote:

Do you know anyone in the TfL press office who you could remind of this -

Doubt they'd take any notice.

How many press releases with incorrect data like that have ever been
retracted or corrected ? The odd one where something has been incorrect
with the mainstream part of the data, but no-one ever resolves
peripheral waffle BS.


--
Nick

The first bow-string arch bridge in Britain to carry a railway
 

Charles Ellson wrote:

Isn't there a yonks-old bowstring bridge on a disused line
somewhere up near Penrith ?

LOL! I wondered how long it would take for someone to bring up the
Keswick-Penrith line project!

There are several such bridges, some inverted. All in poor condition
though - accessible to bridleway traffic.

--
Chris Game

Capt'n! The spellchecker kinna take this abuse!

The first bow-string arch bridge in Britain to carry a railway
 

On Thu, 16 Nov 2006, Peter Fox wrote:

"John Rowland" wrote in message
...
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-cent...t.asp?prID=934
Rubbish. There is a bowstring arch bridge on the Sheffield Supertram system,
right in the middle of the city.

Thats outside of London tho, so TfT probably class it as abroad.
--
Chris Johns

The first bow-string arch bridge in Britain to carry a railway
 

"Peter Fox" wrote in message
...

"John Rowland" wrote in message
...
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-cent...t.asp?prID=934
Rubbish. There is a bowstring arch bridge on the Sheffield Supertram
system, right in the middle of the city.

Peter Fox

It also looks very similar to the structure which used to take the railway
from West Wylam to Scotswood, at Hagg Bank- that dates from the mid 19th
century, I believe. A search for photos of 'Wylam' and 'Peter Robinson'
should throw something up, as he seems to have taken hundreds there.
Brian

The first bow-string arch bridge in Britain to carry a railway
 

"BH Williams" wrote in message
...

"Peter Fox" wrote in message
...

"John Rowland" wrote in message
...
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-cent...t.asp?prID=934
Rubbish. There is a bowstring arch bridge on the Sheffield Supertram
system, right in the middle of the city.

Peter Fox

It also looks very similar to the structure which used to take the railway
from West Wylam to Scotswood, at Hagg Bank- that dates from the mid 19th
century, I believe. A search for photos of 'Wylam' and 'Peter Robinson'
should throw something up, as he seems to have taken hundreds there.
Brian

A good source for NE structural images is 'Sine':

http://sine.ncl.ac.uk/view_image.asp...al_doc_id=4525

Paul S

The first bow-string arch bridge in Britain to carry a railway
 

On Thu, 16 Nov 2006, Chris Game wrote:

Charles Ellson wrote:

Isn't there a yonks-old bowstring bridge on a disused line somewhere up
near Penrith ?

There are several such bridges, some inverted.

Crumbs - how did that happen?

tom

--
THE POWER OF MATHS COMPELS YOU, THE POWER OF MATHS COMPELS YOU! -- Jon

The first bow-string arch bridge in Britain to carry a railway
 

wrote:
Peter Masson wrote:
"John Rowland" wrote in message
...
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-cent...t.asp?prID=934
So at Whitechapel the high level platforms are the Underground, and the low
level platforms will be the Overground.

Indeed. Does anyone know if they're going to keep the East London Line
branding once the extension is completed, or will it become just
another overground link?

Much info at:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-cent...t.asp?prID=886

There will be new, standardised "London Overground" branding for the
completed ELLX (the East London Railway) and the ex-Silverlink lines
(the North London Railway). The colour theme is the essentially the
orange of the East London line, but on the map, all London Overground
services will be shown using a double line in the same manner as the DLR.

So the answer is, no, it won't be "just another" overground link, but
neither will it strictly keep the original ELL branding.

Also, from the link:

"Phase two will join the East London Railway to Clapham Junction and
will complete an orbital rail route around London on which London
Overground services will run, following the London 2012 Olympics."

Surely inaccurate? There won't be a single orbital rail route;
passengers will be able to complete an outer circle journey, but only
with a few changes: Clapham Junction to Willesden Junction, Willesden
Junction to Highbury & Islington, Highbury & Islington to Surrey Quays,
Surrey Quays to Clapham Junction.

I think it's just slightly sloppy wording - for "rail route", read
"railway".

The future North London Railway service pattern is still very much in
the works. For some period after NLL improvements but before GOBLIN
improvements, there will be 4tph from Clapham Junction to Stratford.
When the Primrose Hill route reopens to passenger traffic, those WLL
trains will divert to Barking instead, resulting in the changes you
identified (although you could get from CJ to Gospel Oak before needing
to change). The Queen's Park to Stratford via Primrose Hill service
appears to depend on the possible Bakerloo line re-extension to Watford
Junction and replacement of the Euston to Watford DC services.


--
Dave Arquati
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

The first bow-string arch bridge in Britain to carry a railway
 

On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 20:30:23 +0000, Tom Anderson
wrote:

On Thu, 16 Nov 2006, Chris Game wrote:

Charles Ellson wrote:

Isn't there a yonks-old bowstring bridge on a disused line somewhere up
near Penrith ?

There are several such bridges, some inverted.

Crumbs - how did that happen?

Kids probably. It's not safe to leave anything unattended nowadays.
--
_______
+---------------------------------------------------+ |\\ //|
| Charles Ellson: charles_AT_ellson.demon.co.uk | | \\ // |
+---------------------------------------------------+ | |
| // \\ |
Alba gu brath |//___\\|

The first bow-string arch bridge in Britain to carry a railway
 

"Charles Ellson" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 20:30:23 +0000, Tom Anderson
wrote:

On Thu, 16 Nov 2006, Chris Game wrote:

Charles Ellson wrote:

Isn't there a yonks-old bowstring bridge on a disused line somewhere up
near Penrith ?

There are several such bridges, some inverted.

Crumbs - how did that happen?

Kids probably. It's not safe to leave anything unattended nowadays.
--
_______
+---------------------------------------------------+ |\\ //|
| Charles Ellson: charles_AT_ellson.demon.co.uk | | \\ // |
+---------------------------------------------------+ | |
| // \\ |
Alba gu brath |//___\\|
Erector held the drawing upside down.....
Brian

The first bow-string arch bridge in Britain to carry a railway
 

BH Williams wrote:

"Charles Ellson" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 20:30:23 +0000, Tom Anderson
wrote:

On Thu, 16 Nov 2006, Chris Game wrote:

Charles Ellson wrote:

Isn't there a yonks-old bowstring bridge on a disused line
somewhere up near Penrith ?

There are several such bridges, some inverted.

Crumbs - how did that happen?

Kids probably. It's not safe to leave anything unattended
nowadays.

Erector held the drawing upside down.....

It's surprising they work upside down. And these Cumbrian
construction guys never could read a drawing!

--
Chris Game

"Hopefully the net-dwelling paranoid delusional conspiracy theorists
won't descend upon me " -- Chris Pratley, MSFT.

The first bow-string arch bridge in Britain to carry a railway
 

Peter Fox wrote:
"John Rowland" wrote in message
...
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-cent...t.asp?prID=934
Rubbish. There is a bowstring arch bridge on the Sheffield Supertram system,
right in the middle of the city.

Peter Fox

Yeap, one quick search on Google can confirm this.

http://www.lusas.com/case/bridge/supertram.html

The first bow-string arch bridge in Britain to carry a railway
 

"Paul Scott" wrote in message
...


It also looks very similar to the structure which used to take the
railway from West Wylam to Scotswood, at Hagg Bank- that dates from the
mid 19th century, I believe. A search for photos of 'Wylam' and 'Peter
Robinson' should throw something up, as he seems to have taken hundreds
there.
Brian

A good source for NE structural images is 'Sine':

http://sine.ncl.ac.uk/view_image.asp...al_doc_id=4525

Paul S
The railway bridge at Wearmouth, Sunderland also shows as a bowstring. In
fact some research using google reveals that a vast number of arched bridges
are 'bowstring' i.e. the ends are tied. The Tyne Bridge (road) is recorded
as a bowstring arch - modelled on the West Wylam Railway bridge just up the
river...

Paul

The first bow-string arch bridge in Britain to carry a railway
 

In article . com,
"Mario Lanza" wrote:

Peter Fox wrote:
"John Rowland" wrote in message
...
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-cent...releases-conte
nt.asp?prID=934
Rubbish. There is a bowstring arch bridge on the Sheffield Supertram
system,
right in the middle of the city.

Peter Fox

Yeap, one quick search on Google can confirm this.

http://www.lusas.com/case/bridge/supertram.html

And the Saltash Bridge is a part-bowstring design, though perhaps that
doesn't count.

Sam

The first bow-string arch bridge in Britain to carry a railway
 

In article ,
Paul Scott wrote:

"Paul Scott" wrote in message
...


It also looks very similar to the structure which used to take the
railway from West Wylam to Scotswood, at Hagg Bank- that dates from the
mid 19th century, I believe. A search for photos of 'Wylam' and 'Peter
Robinson' should throw something up, as he seems to have taken hundreds
there.
Brian

A good source for NE structural images is 'Sine':

http://sine.ncl.ac.uk/view_image.asp...al_doc_id=4525

Paul S
The railway bridge at Wearmouth, Sunderland also shows as a bowstring. In
fact some research using google reveals that a vast number of arched bridges
are 'bowstring' i.e. the ends are tied. The Tyne Bridge (road) is recorded
as a bowstring arch - modelled on the West Wylam Railway bridge just up the
river...

And, as has been remarked earlier in the thread, the High Level Bridge in
Newcastle (which pre-dates all of these examples) is a multi-span
tied-arch bridge, albeit with the the rail deck carried on the tops of the
arches. The High Level opened in September 1849:

http://www.cycle-routes.org/hadrians...ings/high.html

Another bowstring railway bridge (erroneously claimed to be the oldest
wrought-iron railway bridge - the High Level is wrought iron) opened a
month later over the Thames at Windsor:

http://www.thamesweb.co.uk/windsor/w.../bridges2.html

In reality, these weren't going to be the first examples of tied arches
in railway use: the tied arch was first described in the early 17th
century (1617, in fact, by Veranscics[1]) and it is surely unrealistic to
expect that such a useful and economical type of bridge wouldn't have been
used for waggonways (in wooden form).

Robert Stephenson certainly used an iron tied-arch bridge in 1833 at Long
Buckby on the London and Birmingham railway[2] - so it's safe to say that
the TfL claim that the new ELR bridge is the first bowstring bridge to
carry a railway in .uk is but flagrant flapdoodle and blatant bosh.

[1] http://www.icomos.org/studies/bridges.htm
[2] http://www.robertstephensontrust.com/time.htm

--
Andy Breen ~ Not speaking on behalf of the University of Wales, Aberystwyth
Feng Shui: an ancient oriental art for extracting
money from the gullible (Martin Sinclair)

The first bow-string arch bridge in Britain to carry a railway
 

In article , Peter Masson wrote:

So at Whitechapel the high level platforms are the Underground, and the low
level platforms will be the Overground.

A fairly common occurrence in Berlin, where at some stations the U-bahn is at high level
and the S-bahn is at ground level or in a cutting.

J

The first bow-string arch bridge in Britain to carry a railway
 

On Fri, 17 Nov 2006, BH Williams wrote:


"Charles Ellson" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 20:30:23 +0000, Tom Anderson
wrote:

On Thu, 16 Nov 2006, Chris Game wrote:

Charles Ellson wrote:

Isn't there a yonks-old bowstring bridge on a disused line somewhere up
near Penrith ?

There are several such bridges, some inverted.

Crumbs - how did that happen?

Kids probably. It's not safe to leave anything unattended nowadays.

Erector held the drawing upside down.....

Aaah. I was thinking it was part of some sort of railway / rollercoaster
hybrid setup. That would have explained why it's now disused. Bloody HMRI
bedwetters.

tom

--
It is better to create badly than to appreciate well. -- Gareth Jones

The first bow-string arch bridge in Britain to carry a railway
 

On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 13:32:33 +0000 (UTC), (Andrew
Robert Breen) wrote:


In reality, these weren't going to be the first examples of tied arches
in railway use: the tied arch was first described in the early 17th
century (1617, in fact, by Veranscics[1]) and it is surely unrealistic to
expect that such a useful and economical type of bridge wouldn't have been
used for waggonways (in wooden form).

Robert Stephenson certainly used an iron tied-arch bridge in 1833 at Long
Buckby on the London and Birmingham railway[2] - so it's safe to say that
the TfL claim that the new ELR bridge is the first bowstring bridge to
carry a railway in .uk is but flagrant flapdoodle and blatant bosh.

[1] http://www.icomos.org/studies/bridges.htm
[2] http://www.robertstephensontrust.com/time.htm

Something wrong with [2]. Long Buckby isn't on the London to
Birmingham line. I believe there was a bowstring bridge on the L & B
but cannot immediately trace where it was.

Incidentally Byran Morgan's Railways - Civil Engineering refers to a
'diminutive' bowstring bridge on the Stockton and Darlington Railway,
parts of which are preserved in the NRM.
--
Peter Lawrence

The first bow-string arch bridge in Britain to carry a railway
 

In article ,
Peter Lawrence wrote:
On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 13:32:33 +0000 (UTC), (Andrew
Robert Breen) wrote:


In reality, these weren't going to be the first examples of tied arches
in railway use: the tied arch was first described in the early 17th
century (1617, in fact, by Veranscics[1]) and it is surely unrealistic to
expect that such a useful and economical type of bridge wouldn't have been
used for waggonways (in wooden form).

Robert Stephenson certainly used an iron tied-arch bridge in 1833 at Long
Buckby on the London and Birmingham railway[2] - so it's safe to say that
the TfL claim that the new ELR bridge is the first bowstring bridge to
carry a railway in .uk is but flagrant flapdoodle and blatant bosh.

[1] http://www.icomos.org/studies/bridges.htm
[2] http://www.robertstephensontrust.com/time.htm

Something wrong with [2]. Long Buckby isn't on the London to
Birmingham line. I believe there was a bowstring bridge on the L & B
but cannot immediately trace where it was.

Incidentally Byran Morgan's Railways - Civil Engineering refers to a
'diminutive' bowstring bridge on the Stockton and Darlington Railway,
parts of which are preserved in the NRM.

The only Stephenson bridge that I can recall in the NRM is the Gaunless
Bridge, and I'm not entirely sure that's really a tied arch or a species
of curved truss:

http://www.makingthemodernworld.org....0-1880/IC.107/

--
Andy Breen ~ Not speaking on behalf of the University of Wales, Aberystwyth
Feng Shui: an ancient oriental art for extracting
money from the gullible (Martin Sinclair)