Oyster PAYG with two caps?
 

Say I do some bus rides in the morning and lot of tube journeys at off
peak time. Is Oyster intelligent enough to handle this?

Peak bus and Z1-3 or less off peak tube would be best capped at the peak
travelcard rate. But peak bus and Z1-4 or more off peak tube would be
cheaper with a combination of bus cap and off-peak travelcard cap. Does
this work or do I need two Oyster cards?

Thanks
Martin

Oyster PAYG with two caps?
 

On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 22:57:24 +0100, Martin Krieger
wrote:

Say I do some bus rides in the morning and lot of tube journeys at off
peak time. Is Oyster intelligent enough to handle this?

Peak bus and Z1-3 or less off peak tube would be best capped at the peak
travelcard rate. But peak bus and Z1-4 or more off peak tube would be
cheaper with a combination of bus cap and off-peak travelcard cap. Does
this work or do I need two Oyster cards?

I'm not sure that I am following your logic as there is not a separate
peak cap for one day bus travel. Regardless of when you travel you will
cap bus travel at £3 - you simply get to the cap a bit faster by using
buses at peak times at £1 per journey.

The increments on from £3 to the respective off peak (ODTC less 50p)
caps are as follows for off peak tube travel (i.e. after 09.30)

£1.40 Z12
£1.90 Z14
£2.80 Z16

If you had an isolated peak time tube journey and all your other travel
was capped off peak and the combined total was less than the appropriate
peak cap then you would be charged at the combined total.

If I have not understood your question properly please provide your
calculations / examples and I'll have another look.

--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Oyster PAYG with two caps?
 

Say I do some bus rides in the morning and lot of tube journeys at off
peak time. Is Oyster intelligent enough to handle this?

I'm not sure that I am following your logic as there is not a separate
peak cap for one day bus travel. Regardless of when you travel you will
cap bus travel at £3 - you simply get to the cap a bit faster by using
buses at peak times at £1 per journey.

The increments on from £3 to the respective off peak (ODTC less 50p)
caps are as follows for off peak tube travel (i.e. after 09.30)

£1.40 Z12
£1.90 Z14
£2.80 Z16

As far as I know an off-peak paper day travelcard is not valid before
9:30. Not on the tube and not on the bus. So if one wishes to travel by
bus in the morning this has to be payed separately. Right?

So my logic was that it is the same with Oyster. If the Oyster off-peak
cap allows peak bus rides -as you say- this would be a reason more to
use it.

Martin

Oyster PAYG with two caps?
 

Paul Corfield wrote:

On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 22:57:24 +0100, Martin Krieger
wrote:


Say I do some bus rides in the morning and lot of tube journeys at off
peak time. Is Oyster intelligent enough to handle this?

Peak bus and Z1-3 or less off peak tube would be best capped at the peak
travelcard rate. But peak bus and Z1-4 or more off peak tube would be
cheaper with a combination of bus cap and off-peak travelcard cap. Does
this work or do I need two Oyster cards?

If I have not understood your question properly please provide your
calculations / examples and I'll have another look.

I think he means that the difference between peak and off-peak cap for
the Z1-5 and Z1-6 caps are bigger than the £3 bus-only cap.

Example: Lots of bus journeys in the morning, capped at £3. Then lots of
tube journeys in the evening in zones 1-2, would normaly be capped at
£4.40, but the lots of bus journeys in the morning makes a peak cap of
£5.70 cheaper for all of the journeys.

Example: Lots of bus journeys in the morning, capped at £3. Then lots of
tube journeys in the evening in zones 1-6, would be capped at £5.80
because a peak cap of £11.90 would be more expensive for all of the
journeys so here the bus journeys and the tube journeys are capped
separately. (...or do you need two separate Oyster cards for this
effect, I do not know that for sure, have not tested it.)

--
Olof Lagerkvist
ICQ: 724451
Web: http://here.is/olof

Oyster PAYG with two caps?
 

If I have not understood your question properly please provide your
calculations / examples and I'll have another look.


One example would be

4 x bus journey between 0700 and 0930 4 x £ 1.00

Then 2 x Z1-5 return on the tube between 0930 and 1900, 2 x £ 3.50

Does Oyster

a) Apply the Peak Day travelcard Z1-5 cap (£ 9.90) or

b) The Off Peak Z1-6 cap (£5.80) plus one day bus pass (£3.00),
total £ 8.80?


That might be rather a good question....

Oyster PAYG with two caps?
 

David Jackman wrote:


If I have not understood your question properly please provide your
calculations / examples and I'll have another look.


One example would be

4 x bus journey between 0700 and 0930 4 x £ 1.00

Then 2 x Z1-5 return on the tube between 0930 and 1900, 2 x £ 3.50

Does Oyster

a) Apply the Peak Day travelcard Z1-5 cap (£ 9.90) or

b) The Off Peak Z1-6 cap (£5.80) plus one day bus pass (£3.00),
total £ 8.80?


That might be rather a good question....

(b) would happen. It's a 'smart' card!

Oyster PAYG with two caps?
 

"Mizter T" wrote in news:1165877919.860009.62020@
73g2000cwn.googlegroups.com:

David Jackman wrote:


If I have not understood your question properly please provide your
calculations / examples and I'll have another look.


One example would be

4 x bus journey between 0700 and 0930 4 x £ 1.00

Then 2 x Z1-5 return on the tube between 0930 and 1900, 2 x £ 3.50

Does Oyster

a) Apply the Peak Day travelcard Z1-5 cap (£ 9.90) or

b) The Off Peak Z1-6 cap (£5.80) plus one day bus pass (£3.00),
total £ 8.80?


That might be rather a good question....

(b) would happen. It's a 'smart' card!



If it's so ****ing smart why do you have to touch in at Bank when going
from the Northern Line to the DLR? :-)))

Smart my ARSE :-) My cat is smarter than that stupid piece of blue
plastic, and he thinks my laser pointer is a mouse!

Oyster PAYG with two caps?
 

On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 23:22:44 +0100, Martin Krieger
wrote:

Say I do some bus rides in the morning and lot of tube journeys at off
peak time. Is Oyster intelligent enough to handle this?

I'm not sure that I am following your logic as there is not a separate
peak cap for one day bus travel. Regardless of when you travel you will
cap bus travel at £3 - you simply get to the cap a bit faster by using
buses at peak times at £1 per journey.

The increments on from £3 to the respective off peak (ODTC less 50p)
caps are as follows for off peak tube travel (i.e. after 09.30)

£1.40 Z12
£1.90 Z14
£2.80 Z16

As far as I know an off-peak paper day travelcard is not valid before
9:30. Not on the tube and not on the bus. So if one wishes to travel by
bus in the morning this has to be payed separately. Right?

No, because there is a separate bus only ticket that applies for a whole
day (cash fare £3.50) and this is the first cap (£3) that would be
triggered in your example of peak time bus travel. From all of the staff
training material I have read on capping the following applies.

If you use buses at any time the cap would be set to £3. There is no
difference in the price for a one day ticket on the buses for peak and
off peak times (and therefore the cap value of 50p less than the one day
bus pass). The fact that the bus fare deducted from your PAYG value
varies between peak and off peak (bus times) is irrelevant. If all of
your bus travel is in the peak the cap is £3. If all of it was off peak
it'd still be £3.

The *time* of your tube / DLR travel and *the zones* in which you travel
are the next variables that move the value of any further cap value.

If *all* of your tube travel is after 09.30 (disregard the fact that
higher Oyster fares apply 07.00 - 19.00) then the next series of cap
values would be

£4.40 Z12
£4.90 Z14
£5.80 Z16

If you had tube travel prior to 09.30 then the cap values would
typically move to the peak one day travelcard values less 50p as below.

£5.70 Z12
£7.90 Z14
£11.90 Z16

However the system is clever enough to look at what the off peak cap
would be plus any tube / dlr travel prior to 09.30. If the total of
these two amounts is less than the equivalent peak cap for the zones
travelled through you will be charged the lower value.

So my logic was that it is the same with Oyster. If the Oyster off-peak
cap allows peak bus rides -as you say- this would be a reason more to
use it.

Which is what it does do. See my explanation above.

--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Oyster PAYG with two caps?
 

On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 16:38:01 -0600, David Jackman
wrote:


If I have not understood your question properly please provide your
calculations / examples and I'll have another look.


One example would be

4 x bus journey between 0700 and 0930 4 x £ 1.00

Then 2 x Z1-5 return on the tube between 0930 and 1900, 2 x £ 3.50

Does Oyster

a) Apply the Peak Day travelcard Z1-5 cap (£ 9.90) or

b) The Off Peak Z1-6 cap (£5.80) plus one day bus pass (£3.00),
total £ 8.80?

For the bus journeys a cap of £3 would be applied after 3 trips. The 4th
is free.

The cap then moves up to £5.80 (off peak cap for journeys Z1-6 using DLR
/ Tube) which means you get 1 bus ride free plus are only charged £2.80
for tube trips valued at £7. Therefore you save £5.20 against the grand
total if each trip was being charged separately.

--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Oyster PAYG with two caps?
 

Paul Corfield wrote:
On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 16:38:01 -0600, David Jackman
wrote:

If I have not understood your question properly please provide your
calculations / examples and I'll have another look.

One example would be

4 x bus journey between 0700 and 0930 4 x £ 1.00

Then 2 x Z1-5 return on the tube between 0930 and 1900, 2 x £ 3.50

Does Oyster

a) Apply the Peak Day travelcard Z1-5 cap (£ 9.90) or

b) The Off Peak Z1-6 cap (£5.80) plus one day bus pass (£3.00),
total £ 8.80?

For the bus journeys a cap of £3 would be applied after 3 trips. The 4th
is free.

The cap then moves up to £5.80 (off peak cap for journeys Z1-6 using DLR
/ Tube) which means you get 1 bus ride free plus are only charged £2.80
for tube trips valued at £7. Therefore you save £5.20 against the grand
total if each trip was being charged separately.

I'm not convinced by that. If the bus journeys are before 0930, then
surely they wouldn't be covered by an off-peak cap - in which case,
David's scenario "b" of £8.80 would apply as that would be the cheapest
possible combination.

--
Dave Arquati
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

Oyster PAYG with two caps?
 

On Tue, 12 Dec 2006 23:00:19 +0000, Dave Arquati
wrote:

Paul Corfield wrote:
On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 16:38:01 -0600, David Jackman
wrote:

If I have not understood your question properly please provide your
calculations / examples and I'll have another look.

One example would be

4 x bus journey between 0700 and 0930 4 x £ 1.00

Then 2 x Z1-5 return on the tube between 0930 and 1900, 2 x £ 3.50

Does Oyster

a) Apply the Peak Day travelcard Z1-5 cap (£ 9.90) or

b) The Off Peak Z1-6 cap (£5.80) plus one day bus pass (£3.00),
total £ 8.80?

For the bus journeys a cap of £3 would be applied after 3 trips. The 4th
is free.

The cap then moves up to £5.80 (off peak cap for journeys Z1-6 using DLR
/ Tube) which means you get 1 bus ride free plus are only charged £2.80
for tube trips valued at £7. Therefore you save £5.20 against the grand
total if each trip was being charged separately.

I'm not convinced by that. If the bus journeys are before 0930, then
surely they wouldn't be covered by an off-peak cap - in which case,
David's scenario "b" of £8.80 would apply as that would be the cheapest
possible combination.

Surely they must be covered by the one day bus pass cap which has no
peak differential? I would agree with your analysis if there was pre
09.30 tube or DLR travel or if there was such a thing as a peak priced
one day bus pass cap.

You cannot trigger a One Day Travelcard related cap if you have only
used a mode which has no zones - there are no bus zones anymore because
of the flat fare nature of the system.

I have gone back through two sets of training material and remain
convinced I am correct.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Oyster PAYG with two caps?
 

Paul Corfield wrote:
On Tue, 12 Dec 2006 23:00:19 +0000, Dave Arquati
wrote:

Paul Corfield wrote:
On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 16:38:01 -0600, David Jackman
wrote:

If I have not understood your question properly please provide your
calculations / examples and I'll have another look.

One example would be

4 x bus journey between 0700 and 0930 4 x £ 1.00

Then 2 x Z1-5 return on the tube between 0930 and 1900, 2 x £ 3.50

Does Oyster

a) Apply the Peak Day travelcard Z1-5 cap (£ 9.90) or

b) The Off Peak Z1-6 cap (£5.80) plus one day bus pass (£3.00),
total £ 8.80?
For the bus journeys a cap of £3 would be applied after 3 trips. The 4th
is free.

The cap then moves up to £5.80 (off peak cap for journeys Z1-6 using DLR
/ Tube) which means you get 1 bus ride free plus are only charged £2.80
for tube trips valued at £7. Therefore you save £5.20 against the grand
total if each trip was being charged separately.
I'm not convinced by that. If the bus journeys are before 0930, then
surely they wouldn't be covered by an off-peak cap - in which case,
David's scenario "b" of £8.80 would apply as that would be the cheapest
possible combination.

Surely they must be covered by the one day bus pass cap which has no
peak differential? I would agree with your analysis if there was pre
09.30 tube or DLR travel or if there was such a thing as a peak priced
one day bus pass cap.

You cannot trigger a One Day Travelcard related cap if you have only
used a mode which has no zones - there are no bus zones anymore because
of the flat fare nature of the system.

I have gone back through two sets of training material and remain
convinced I am correct.

I think you misunderstood me. The (peak) bus journeys are *not* covered
by an off-peak travelcard cap, but they *are* covered by a one day bus
pass cap. Therefore the cheapest possible fare is the combination of a
one day bus pass cap at £3 for the bus journeys, and an off-peak
travelcard cap at £5.80 for the Tube journeys.

The scenario starts with bus journeys which trigger a cap of £3.00 (not
peak-related). Then, after 0930, a Z1-5 Tube journey is made, valued at
£3.50. However, this cannot trigger an off-peak travelcard cap, because
that cap does not cover bus journeys before 0930 - so the charge-to-date
is £6.50. The subsequent Z1-5 Tube journey should trigger an off-peak
Z1-6 cap for the two Tube journeys, resulting in a total cost of £8.80.

Looking at it the other way, if magnetic tickets were being used for
this scenario, the cheapest combination would be a One Day Bus Pass
(£3.50) plus a Z1-6 Off Peak Day Travelcard (£6.30), totalling £9.80. (A
Peak Day Travelcard would be more expensive, costing £10.40). A Z1-6 Off
Peak Day Travelcard is not valid for *any* travel before 0930, including
buses.

--
Dave Arquati
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London