Apparently the closure of the Central Line after Chancery Lane accident
was so successful. London Underground want to close huge stretches of
Northern Line, Jubilee Line and other lines to do maintenance work
during the day to save money. They could be closed for weeks or even
months.
They reckon because London didn't grind to a halt when the central line
was closed. It might be an idea to close a few of the other lines for a
while.






































--
CJG

In message , Neil Williams
writes
Interesting - it's also a National Rail thing - apparently, long
possessions allow a lot more work to be done a lot more cheaply than
the same time's worth of overnighters.

Sorry to look at it from the negative view point. But maybe National
Rail and London Underground are just being ripped off by their
contractors.
Just out of interest how does maintenance work take place in other parts
of the world? Do the other major cities/ Western countries have the same
approach to maintenance as we do in this country?
--
CJG

In article , CJG
writes
Interesting - it's also a National Rail thing - apparently, long
possessions allow a lot more work to be done a lot more cheaply than
the same time's worth of overnighters.
Sorry to look at it from the negative view point. But maybe National
Rail and London Underground are just being ripped off by their
contractors.

And maybe not.

If the last train reaches the depot at 01:00, you need until 02:00 to
get the power off, check it, and get all your people and equipment in
place to re-start the work you stopped last night.

At 04:30 you need to start packing up and ensuring the line is safe and
everybody is off it so that the power can be switched on in time for the
first train at 05:30.

Suppose we're talking about track replacement. At finishing time you've
got to assemble the joint between the last new rail and the first old
one, and check that all track circuits in the area you've worked on are
working correctly. Then the first thing you're going to do the next
evening is disassemble that same joint and break the track circuit.
Wasted effort.

Result: 2.5 hours work for 4.5 hours effort and probably a full day's
pay at night rate. The rest of the time is wasted. To get 100 hours of
genuine work (e.g. rail replacement) you use up 40 days.

If you shut the line for a long weekend (say Thursday lunchtime to
Tuesday morning) you can get that same 100 hours in one long run. Which
is better? Yes, it's more disruptive, but it's far more productive.

--
Clive D.W. Feather, writing for himself | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8371 1138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Written on my laptop; please observe the Reply-To address

On Tue, 5 Aug 2003 06:54:33 +0100 Clive D. W. Feather clive@on-the-
train.demon.co.uk said...

If you shut the line for a long weekend (say Thursday lunchtime to
Tuesday morning) you can get that same 100 hours in one long run. Which
is better? Yes, it's more disruptive, but it's far more productive.

Fine except the possessions would be weeks long not just a long weekend
as you've stated. About 2 or 3 summers ago the Victoria Line was closed
between Victoria & Brixton for about 3 weeks. We're talking here of about
500 *continuous* hours to replace at the most a couple of miles of track
and a few sets of points. Does it really take that long?

Before LUL and their contractors can be given the opportunity to shut
lengths of line for prolonged periods I think they need to convince their
customers that the vast amounts of time is going to be used productively.

--
Phil Richards
London, N4

On Mon, 4 Aug 2003 22:20:10 +0100, CJG
wrote:


Just out of interest how does maintenance work take place in other parts
of the world? Do the other major cities/ Western countries have the same
approach to maintenance as we do in this country?

I was in Berlin a couple of weeks ago and a few bits of the U-bahn and
S-bahn were closed for long-term manintenance.

In article , Phil Richards
writes
Fine except the possessions would be weeks long not just a long weekend
as you've stated. About 2 or 3 summers ago the Victoria Line was closed
between Victoria & Brixton for about 3 weeks. We're talking here of about
500 *continuous* hours to replace at the most a couple of miles of track
and a few sets of points. Does it really take that long?

That depends whether it was just simple track replacement, or if there
was other stuff as well.

But, if it *does* take 500 hours, which is better:
- 3 weeks continuous closure
- 7 months with significantly increased numbers of problems because of
temporary works
?

--
Clive D.W. Feather, writing for himself | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8371 1138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Written on my laptop; please observe the Reply-To address

"CJG" wrote in message
...
In message , Clive D. W. Feather
writes
Result: 2.5 hours work for 4.5 hours effort and probably a full day's
pay at night rate

So that would be a "Yes. They are ripped off by their contractors"

No, that'd be "The contractor put a bid in for the work, along with others.
Usually, the cheapest bid wins".

On Mon, 4 Aug 2003 20:54:23 +0100, CJG
wrote:

Apparently the closure of the Central Line after Chancery Lane accident
was so successful. London Underground want to close huge stretches of
Northern Line, Jubilee Line and other lines to do maintenance work
during the day to save money. They could be closed for weeks or even
months.
They reckon because London didn't grind to a halt when the central line
was closed. It might be an idea to close a few of the other lines for a
while.

I think you need to read the article very closely. This is typical "slow
news" stuff from the Standard. The only organisations that were quoted
were the Infracos and not LUL They already have engineering time and
closures allocated to deliver all of their PPP upgrade commitments
without prolonged line closures. What they are doing is "flying a kite"
to see if TfL as the new owners of the Tube will bite. This is because
Mr Kiley and Mr Livingstone have both propounded the view that line
closures to concentrate the work could be beneficial. Of course it is
potentially much cheaper for the Infracos to have a "big bang" closure
but the point would be to ensure that LUL sees the benefit in cash terms
as well as better assets from moving away from the contractually agreed
provisions.

There are benefits and disbenefits to doing major works using
conventional engineering hours and possessions versus line shut downs
for weeks or months.

The article concluded by saying nothing would happen for about 3 years
so there's no need for a mass panic.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

"Robin Mayes" wrote the following in:


snip

Never mind what you wrote, you've got my name with an es on it!

--
message by Robin May, founder of International Boyism
"Would Inspector Sands please go to the Operations Room immediately."

Unofficially immune to hangovers.

"Robin May" wrote in message
...
"Robin Mayes" wrote the following in:


snip

Never mind what you wrote, you've got my name with an es on it!

This is really going to confuse CJD!