What station is this?
 

The missus and I just watched a rather fascinating film called "It Happened
Here", which is a mockumentary, made in 1958 by two teenagers (one was 18,
the other 16) although released in 1966, about what would have happened had
the worst happened, and Hitler succeeded and invaded Britain and made it
part of the Reich.

A chilling film indeed. And made by these two teenagers, with a teeny
budget, it's most impressive.

More on the film he
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0055024/

Review he
http://www.imdb.com/Reviews/144/14465

It's on DVD if you want to see it.

Anyway, from a UTL point of view, it's fascinating, as there's loads of
footage of old routemasters, tubes, etc. Whether the filmmakers used stock
around in 1944 when the film is largely based, or whether they used stock
that was around in the late 50s when they shot it, I don't know.

But I was fascinated by the location of one scene where a load of SS
soldiers march into a tube train. Here's a screengrab I took of it:

http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne...4400498&size=o

Trying to work out where it was taken. My guess is Edgware, the first
platform you come to on the right hand side which is on its own. I don't
know the number of the platform.

Am I right?

What station is this?
 

Tristán White wrote:

soldiers march into a tube train. Here's a screengrab I took of it:

http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne...4400498&size=o

Trying to work out where it was taken. My guess is Edgware, the first
platform you come to on the right hand side which is on its own. I don't
know the number of the platform.

Am I right?

That overall roof visible to the left of the train is quite
distinctive. There are two pictures on this page which show 1960 tube
stock at Edgware during the 1999 Northern Heights railtour. The topmost
picture is taken from the London end of the platform, facing the buffer
stops, and the second from the bottom is taken from a camera position
similar to the shot you grabbed. As the caption remarks, "the premature
end to the New Works programme gives the station a distinctly
"unfinished" feel."

http://www.squarewheels.org.uk/rly/stock/1960tubeStock/

As for the rolling stock, it looks like 1938 stock which would have
been authentic for the Northern in 1944, although I am not sure about
livery details being absolutely correct. That "No Smoking" window
transfer looks a bit post-war, but I am willing to be corrected.

What station is this?
 

On Sat, 16 Dec 2006 Tristán White wrote:

The missus and I just watched a rather fascinating film called "It Happened
Here", which is a mockumentary, made in 1958 by two teenagers (one was 18,
the other 16) although released in 1966, about what would have happened had
the worst happened, and Hitler succeeded and invaded Britain and made it
part of the Reich.

A chilling film indeed. And made by these two teenagers, with a teeny
budget, it's most impressive.

More on the film he
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0055024/

Review he
http://www.imdb.com/Reviews/144/14465

It's on DVD if you want to see it.

Anyway, from a UTL point of view, it's fascinating, as there's loads of
footage of old routemasters, tubes, etc. Whether the filmmakers used stock
around in 1944 when the film is largely based, or whether they used stock
that was around in the late 50s when they shot it, I don't know.

This excellent film was made by amateurs largely at weekends on no
money. So what you see is what was around at the time the film was
made, which was not just 1958 but the period from then up to when it was
released.

But I was fascinated by the location of one scene where a load of SS
soldiers march into a tube train. Here's a screengrab I took of it:

http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne...4400498&size=o

Trying to work out where it was taken. My guess is Edgware, the first
platform you come to on the right hand side which is on its own. I don't
know the number of the platform.

Am I right?

--
Thoss

What station is this?
 

thoss wrote:



????

What station is this?
 

wrote:

As for the rolling stock, it looks like 1938 stock which would have
been authentic for the Northern in 1944, although I am not sure about
livery details being absolutely correct. That "No Smoking" window
transfer looks a bit post-war, but I am willing to be corrected.

Yes I know about the 1949 stock before anyone calls me on that
possibility. It looks like 38 TS anyway.

Also, I wonder about whether blackout precautions would have been in
use on tube stock in 1944. One sees them in newsreel shots. There is a
tantalising looking diamond shape visible on the glass of the LH opened
door in its pocket, which I am thinking might just be a coincidence or
artifact. I am guessing that a couple of teenagers would not have had
the means for absolutely authentic livery, and they just went down to
Edgware and filmed the actors getting into a service train. I'd be
interested to know about that.

What station is this?
 

thoss wrote:
On Sat, 16 Dec 2006 Tristán White wrote:

The missus and I just watched a rather fascinating film called "It
Happened Here", which is a mockumentary, made in 1958 by two
teenagers (one was 18, the other 16) although released in 1966,
about what would have happened had the worst happened, and Hitler
succeeded and invaded Britain and made it part of the Reich.

This excellent film was made by amateurs largely at weekends on no
money.

That must have been a shock to the passengers.... or was Edgware not a
Jewish area yet?

What station is this?
 

John Rowland wrote:

That must have been a shock to the passengers.... or was Edgware not a
Jewish area yet?

Yes it was...

What station is this?
 

In article .com, () wrote:

Tristán White wrote:

soldiers march into a tube train. Here's a screengrab I took of
it:

http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne...4400498&size=o

Trying to work out where it was taken. My guess is Edgware, the
first platform you come to on the right hand side which is on its
own. I don't know the number of the platform.

Am I right?

That overall roof visible to the left of the train is quite
distinctive. There are two pictures on this page which show 1960
tube stock at Edgware during the 1999 Northern Heights railtour. The
topmost picture is taken from the London end of the platform, facing
the buffer stops, and the second from the bottom is taken from a camera
position similar to the shot you grabbed. As the caption remarks, "the
premature end to the New Works programme gives the station a distinctly
"unfinished" feel."

http://www.squarewheels.org.uk/rly/stock/1960tubeStock/

As for the rolling stock, it looks like 1938 stock which would have
been authentic for the Northern in 1944, although I am not sure
about livery details being absolutely correct. That "No Smoking" window
transfer looks a bit post-war, but I am willing to be corrected.

The livery looks all-red to me, not authentic for 1944. Also the signs would have still said "NON-SMOKING" at that time. "NO-SMOKING" came later. And the lack of blast netting is wrong too.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

What station is this?
 

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

As for the rolling stock, it looks like 1938 stock which would have
been authentic for the Northern in 1944, although I am not sure
about livery details being absolutely correct. That "No Smoking" window
transfer looks a bit post-war, but I am willing to be corrected.

The livery looks all-red to me, not authentic for 1944. Also the signs would have still said "NON-SMOKING" at that time. "NO-SMOKING" came later. And the lack of blast netting is wrong too.

I have been thinking about this. The 38 stock had cream window pillars
when introduced, didn't it? Like in this picture (of 1959 stock,
admittedly)

http://www.anorakheaven.com/photos/rs050.jpg

Maybe tube trains wouldn't need blast or blackout precautions if
German troops were in occupation?

What station is this?
 

In article . com, () wrote:

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

As for the rolling stock, it looks like 1938 stock which would
have been authentic for the Northern in 1944, although I am not sure
about livery details being absolutely correct. That "No
Smoking" window transfer looks a bit post-war, but I am willing to
be corrected.

The livery looks all-red to me, not authentic for 1944. Also the
signs would have still said "NON-SMOKING" at that time.
"NO-SMOKING" came later. And the lack of blast netting is wrong too.

I have been thinking about this. The 38 stock had cream window
pillars when introduced, didn't it? Like in this picture (of 1959 stock,
admittedly)

http://www.anorakheaven.com/photos/rs050.jpg

I think that was a fair representation of the cream element. Before my time, mind.

Maybe tube trains wouldn't need blast or blackout precautions if
German troops were in occupation?

Good point.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

What station is this?
 

wrote:
Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

As for the rolling stock, it looks like 1938 stock which would have
been authentic for the Northern in 1944, although I am not sure
about livery details being absolutely correct. That "No Smoking" window
transfer looks a bit post-war, but I am willing to be corrected.

The livery looks all-red to me, not authentic for 1944. Also the signs would have still said "NON-SMOKING" at that time. "NO-SMOKING" came later.

It was "NON SMOKING" on the outside, "NO SMOKING" on the inside.

What station is this?
 

On Sat, 16 Dec 2006 19:58:51 -0600, "Tristán White"
wrote:

The missus and I just watched a rather fascinating film called "It Happened
Here", which is a mockumentary, made in 1958 by two teenagers (one was 18,
the other 16) although released in 1966, about what would have happened had
the worst happened, and Hitler succeeded and invaded Britain and made it
part of the Reich.

There can't have been too many Routemasters in 1958, only the
prototypes existed.

What station is this?
 

Ken Wheatley wrote:

There can't have been too many Routemasters in 1958, only the
prototypes existed.

Ken, this is a painful subject for me! As a schoolboy, I spent several
Saturdays 'bashing' RTWs. Unfortunately the iPod generation think that
***all*** red London doubledeckers with rear platforms from RT1 onwards
were called "Routemasters". The Wikipedia entry on RMs ruefully notes
this fact. They are aided and abetted in this by the media. I once saw
a photo in the Guardian of a wartime RT with the caption "a blacked out
early routemaster" (lower case 'r').

You can accept it and grow old gracefully, or you can fight it tooth
and nail like I do...

What station is this?
 

wrote:
Ken Wheatley wrote:

There can't have been too many Routemasters in 1958, only the
prototypes existed.


[later]

Someone has pointed out that the film was actually shot at various
times between 1958 and 1966 when it was released.

What station is this?
 

On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 wrote:


wrote:
Ken Wheatley wrote:

There can't have been too many Routemasters in 1958, only the
prototypes existed.


[later]

Someone has pointed out that the film was actually shot at various
times between 1958 and 1966 when it was released.


Here's the definitive answer about the bus, from Kevin Brownlow's book
"How It Happened Here". Brownlow was co-director and co-producer of the
film, with Andrew Mollo, and is now a noted film historian.

The Parliament Square march-past scene which featured the bus was filmed
on 1 October 1961. After describing how they got no help from the
police, Brownlow says:

"The traffic had to keep moving, and we would have to shoot in the
gaps... As the band crashed out the Lippe-Detttmold Marsch, the column
moved forward in perfect step. When our wartime bus, with the Picture
Post eyes on the front, moved into position, the scene was almost
hallucinatory."

There's a b&w photo of the bus, with a contingent of "Wehrmacht troops
and the Big Ben tower behind. The bus is an AEC, number DLU92, with the
destination indicator saying
159
STREATHAM COMMON
LAMBETH BDG BRIXTON

And the cover has a close-up in colour of the driver cab, with a pair of
identification plates reading "AK 15".
--
Thoss

What station is this?
 

On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 09:55:12 -0000, wrote:


Ken Wheatley wrote:

There can't have been too many Routemasters in 1958, only the
prototypes existed.

Ken, this is a painful subject for me! As a schoolboy, I spent several
Saturdays 'bashing' RTWs. Unfortunately the iPod generation think that
***all*** red London doubledeckers with rear platforms from RT1 onwards
were called "Routemasters". The Wikipedia entry on RMs ruefully notes
this fact.

So...change it. That is what Wikipedia is for!
:-)

--
Fig

What station is this?
 

What station is this?
 

In message op.tkrq14r3m4iaeb@dell, Fig writes
On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 09:55:12 -0000, wrote:


Ken Wheatley wrote:

There can't have been too many Routemasters in 1958, only the
prototypes existed.

Ken, this is a painful subject for me! As a schoolboy, I spent several
Saturdays 'bashing' RTWs. Unfortunately the iPod generation think that
***all*** red London doubledeckers with rear platforms from RT1 onwards
were called "Routemasters". The Wikipedia entry on RMs ruefully notes
this fact.

So...change it. That is what Wikipedia is for!
:-)

And if the film was based on the wartime period, routemasters did not
exist than ?
--
martyn dawe

What station is this?
 

martyn dawe wrote in
:

In message op.tkrq14r3m4iaeb@dell, Fig writes
On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 09:55:12 -0000, wrote:


Ken Wheatley wrote:

There can't have been too many Routemasters in 1958, only the
prototypes existed.

Ken, this is a painful subject for me! As a schoolboy, I spent several
Saturdays 'bashing' RTWs. Unfortunately the iPod generation think that
***all*** red London doubledeckers with rear platforms from RT1 onwards
were called "Routemasters". The Wikipedia entry on RMs ruefully notes
this fact.

So...change it. That is what Wikipedia is for!
:-)

And if the film was based on the wartime period, routemasters did not
exist than ?

I think what he means is that I was wrong to refer to it as a
"routemaster" because the term only applied post 1958.

But as it happened, since the film was made post 1958 anyway, they probably
*were* routemasters.

What station is this?
 

I don't
know the number of the platform.

Its Platform 1

What station is this?
 

Tristán White wrote:

I'm curious now. There's a street up the road from me in Plaisow called
"Routemaster Close".

It looks quite an old road and the houses are certainly prewar by the looks
of things... so it is a name-change then?

Depends which war you mean, young man. Certainly not pre world war 2 if
this former resident is to be believed, talking about trolleybuses -
among the first routes given to Routemasters were trolleybus
replacements... THis would have been around 1960.

"They ran from either West Ham [WH] or Poplar [PR] depots, both now
demolished and housing estates built on the sites, although the West
Ham Depot site is remembered as one of the street names there is named
Routemaster Close."

What station is this?
 

wrote:

"They ran from either West Ham [WH] or Poplar [PR] depots, both now
demolished and housing estates built on the sites, although the West
Ham Depot site is remembered as one of the street names there is named
Routemaster Close."

Could it be a renamed street rather than a 1960s build? There can't be
two Routemaster Closes in that area, surely? I daresay to the untrained
eye a 1960s housing estate might look 'pre-war'? I'm not an architect
myself, and my dad's bungalow in Coulsdon looks pre-war to me, but it
was actually built in 1959.

What station is this?
 

Is it the one off the south west side of Greengate Street, between Gad
Close and Barbers Alley?

I've looked it up on Windows Live Search - if you can copy this whole
link without line wrapping you can see the little estate which includes
Routemaster Close. It looks later than pre-war to me - the roofs look
quite recent, and prewar estates didn't have so much car parking, did
they?

The estate is the group of buildings immediately behind the sports
pitch with the red fence. This view is looking east. There is a yellow
van parked on the RH side of Routemaster Close.

http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v...&scene=4267951

What station is this?
 

On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 Tristán White wrote:

But as it happened, since the film was made post 1958 anyway, they
probably *were* routemasters.

No, it was a genuine wartime bus. See my earlier message.
--
Thoss

What station is this?
 

In message 5, Tristán
White writes

I'm curious now. There's a street up the road from me in Plaisow called
"Routemaster Close".

It looks quite an old road and the houses are certainly prewar by the looks
of things... so it is a name-change then?

If you mean Routemaster Close off Greengate Street, this is a relatively
new road - it doesn't appear at all on the 1961 Bartholomew Reference
Atlas of London, so I suspect the houses are very much newer than you
think.
--
Paul Terry

What station is this?
 

Fig wrote:

On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 09:55:12 -0000, wrote:


Ken Wheatley wrote:

There can't have been too many Routemasters in 1958, only the
prototypes existed.

Ken, this is a painful subject for me! As a schoolboy, I spent several
Saturdays 'bashing' RTWs. Unfortunately the iPod generation think that
***all*** red London doubledeckers with rear platforms from RT1 onwards
were called "Routemasters". The Wikipedia entry on RMs ruefully notes
this fact.

So...change it. That is what Wikipedia is for!
:-)

--
Fig

No need to - you've misunderstood what Mike Harrison was saying.
Re-read his comments and you'll see that he doesn't disagree with the
Wikipedia entry, quite the opposite in fact - he states that the
Wikipedia entry rightfully notes that RTs are often mistakenly called
Routemasters...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Routemaster (under the Design heading)
"RT-type AEC Regent buses [...] and their similar Leyland Titan RTL and
RTW counterparts [...] are often mistaken for Routemasters by the
public and by the media."

What station is this?
 

Mizter T wrote:

Fig wrote:
So...change it. That is what Wikipedia is for!

No need to - you've misunderstood what Mike Harrison was saying.
Re-read his comments and you'll see that he doesn't disagree with the
Wikipedia entry, quite the opposite in fact - he states that the
Wikipedia entry rightfully notes that RTs are often mistakenly called
Routemasters...

Thanks for picking that up for me - My name's Harvey, though, and I
said that Wikipedia "ruefully" (but rightly!) noted that RTs etc....
never mind...

What station is this?
 

On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 15:45:57 -0000, wrote:


Mizter T wrote:

Fig wrote:
So...change it. That is what Wikipedia is for!

No need to - you've misunderstood what Mike Harrison was saying.
Re-read his comments and you'll see that he doesn't disagree with the
Wikipedia entry, quite the opposite in fact - he states that the
Wikipedia entry rightfully notes that RTs are often mistakenly called
Routemasters...

Thanks for picking that up for me - My name's Harvey, though, and I
said that Wikipedia "ruefully" (but rightly!) noted that RTs etc....
never mind...

Sorry Mike, my miss-understanding. Keep up the good fight. Tooth & nail!

--
Fig

What station is this?
 

wrote:

Mizter T wrote:

Fig wrote:
So...change it. That is what Wikipedia is for!

No need to - you've misunderstood what Mike Harrison was saying.
Re-read his comments and you'll see that he doesn't disagree with the
Wikipedia entry, quite the opposite in fact - he states that the
Wikipedia entry rightfully notes that RTs are often mistakenly called
Routemasters...

Thanks for picking that up for me - My name's Harvey, though, and I
said that Wikipedia "ruefully" (but rightly!) noted that RTs etc....
never mind...

Arrrgh - the curse of using Google Groups to post to usenet strikes
again! I called you Mike Harrison as your email address is displayed as
" (i.e. incomplete and with the dots) in
Google Groups - it's an anti-spam measure, though the full address can
be displayed but one has to complete a "captcha" first [1]. For some
reason I had it in my head that you were a Mike Harrison, having read
many of your other posts. I suspect the fact that I know a Mike
Harrison led me to mistakenly attribute that moniker to you as well. My
most humble apologies!

And yes I did see that you said Wikipedia "ruefully" noted the common
confusion - having read the Wikipedia entry I must admit I didn't
really get the sense that it was a rueful note, which in a way is just
as well as Wikipedia isn't supposed to have an opinion! Nonetheless any
one persons reading of the meaning of any given text can of course be
different. I was however careful not to put quotation marks around what
what I said you had stated in your earlier post given that I wasn't
quoting you exactly - perhaps I should've just quoted you exactly!

Anyway I shall be careful not to misrepresent you in the future, not
least by using your correct name ;-)

-----
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captcha

What station is this?
 

Mizter T wrote:

Arrrgh - the curse of using Google Groups to post to usenet strikes
again!

I've been caught similarly myself.

I called you Mike Harrison as your email address is displayed as


Yes, it would, I suppose. I tend to forget that. Still, a rose by any
other name...

And yes I did see that you said Wikipedia "ruefully" noted the common
confusion - having read the Wikipedia entry I must admit I didn't
really get the sense that it was a rueful note

Having re-read it myself, I think you're right - any ruefulness was
being felt by me, I think.

Anyway I shall be careful not to misrepresent you in the future, not
least by using your correct name ;-)

Don't lose any sleep over it!

What station is this?
 

In article . com, () wrote:

Depends which war you mean, young man. Certainly not pre world war
2 if this former resident is to be believed, talking about
trolleybuses - among the first routes given to Routemasters were
trolleybus replacements... THis would have been around 1960.

"They ran from either West Ham [WH] or Poplar [PR] depots, both now
demolished and housing estates built on the sites, although the West
Ham Depot site is remembered as one of the street names there is
named Routemaster Close."

Routemasters entered mainstream service on 11th November 1959 when 74 vehicles were allocated to Poplar and West Ham garages to replace trolleybuses under stage IV of the London Trolleybus Conversion scheme. Once that conversion was completed in 1962 later deliveries of RMs replaced RT type vehicles.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

What station is this?
 

What station is this?
 

On 19 Dec 2006 08:40:43 -0800, "Mizter T" wrote:

Arrrgh - the curse of using Google Groups to post to usenet strikes
again!

The moral of the story, of course, is to get a newsreader and an NSP.

What station is this?
 

wrote in
ps.com:

Is it the one off the south west side of Greengate Street, between Gad
Close and Barbers Alley?

I've looked it up on Windows Live Search - if you can copy this whole
link without line wrapping you can see the little estate which
includes Routemaster Close. It looks later than pre-war to me - the
roofs look quite recent, and prewar estates didn't have so much car
parking, did they?

The estate is the group of buildings immediately behind the sports
pitch with the red fence. This view is looking east. There is a yellow
van parked on the RH side of Routemaster Close.

http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v...302&style=o&lv
l=1&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=4267951





Yep that's the street. Wow, that's better than Google Earth!

What station is this?
 

James Farrar wrote:

On 19 Dec 2006 08:40:43 -0800, "Mizter T" wrote:

Arrrgh - the curse of using Google Groups to post to usenet strikes
again!

The moral of the story, of course, is to get a newsreader and an NSP.

No, not for me it's not. I use different computers, some not under my
control, when I post here. If it wasn't for Google Groups (GG) I
probably wouldn't be posting at all.

The futurologists increasingly bang on about web applications -
i.e.services accessed through a browser where previously one would have
used a full scale PC application. Webmail is an early example, lots of
the other stuff is at a fledgling stage such as Writely, some offers
simplified functionality compared to the full application (MSN Web
Messenger, Google Talk via the Gmail web interface). I see usenet as a
great example of something that can be accessed via the web instead of
via a full-on application.

The implementation of GG is a bit silly in places, as is what sometimes
seems like a thoroughly misguided attempt by Google to claim usenet for
itself. However given a bit of taming GG is very usable, though it
could do better. The mistake I made above is exactly that - my mistake
rather than that of Google Groups.

If there was some paid-for usenet web service that properly addressed
these failings, I'd pay up. The foreseeable problem is that any such
service probably wouldn't provide anything like an equivalently
powerful search function that GG provides.

Incidentally GG is currently running a new beta service that I haven't
played around with yet, which might address some of it's failings. I
shall investigate further.

What station is this?
 

On 19 Dec 2006 15:37:10 -0800, "Mizter T" wrote:

The implementation of GG is a bit silly in places,

And the rest of the places it's disastrous.

It's simultaneously lowered the clue barrier to using usenet whilst
requiring a high level of clue to use GG to post to usenet
effectively.

What station is this?
 

Tristán White wrote:

Yep that's the street. Wow, that's better than Google Earth!

Windows Live Local shows the Shortlands Box which doesn't yet appear on
Google Earth. It must be 2 or 3 years old now.

What station is this?
 

thoss wrote:

There's a b&w photo of the bus, with a contingent of "Wehrmacht troops
and the Big Ben tower behind. The bus is an AEC, number DLU92, with the
destination indicator saying
159
STREATHAM COMMON
LAMBETH BDG BRIXTON

And the cover has a close-up in colour of the driver cab, with a pair of
identification plates reading "AK 15".

A quick bit of Googling suggests that makes it an AEC Regent I,
delivered to LT in June 1937 and originally allocated fleet number STL
2093, allocated to Cricklewood Garage.

Its final London allocation was to Stockwell (hence the AK running
plate), before disposal in 1955. It spent a few years with Reliance
Motor Services of Newbury, running with fleet number 39, before being
purchased for preservation by a Mr D Cowing in May 1958.

Cheers,

Barry

What station is this?
 

Tristán White wrote:

Trying to work out where it was taken. My guess is Edgware, the first
platform you come to on the right hand side which is on its own. I don't
know the number of the platform.

Am I right?

That is platform 1. The platform is only used at peak hours. (At least
it used to be).

What station is this?
 

In message om,
writes
Is it the one off the south west side of Greengate Street, between Gad
Close and Barbers Alley?

I've looked it up on Windows Live Search - if you can copy this whole
link without line wrapping you can see the little estate which includes
Routemaster Close. It looks later than pre-war to me - the roofs look
quite recent, and prewar estates didn't have so much car parking, did
they?

The estate is the group of buildings immediately behind the sports
pitch with the red fence. This view is looking east. There is a yellow
van parked on the RH side of Routemaster Close.

It's got to be about 1980s as I remember visiting WH garage some years
ago. They had just taken delivery of the S class Scanias. All the
houses in Routemaster Close and Gad Close are built on the site of the
old garage.

Just checked, it still had an allocation of 113 in 1987.
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)