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Parking ticket - advice, please?
On 4 Aug 2003 03:44:26 -0700, AOL's down again...
wrote: Hi folks. On saturday last, I got a parking ticket in the delightful London borough of Southwark. The ticket was issued by APCOA Parking for and on behalf of the aforementioned London Borough. I was parked in a bay marked "PERMIT HOLDERS ONLY MON-FRI 8am - 6pm". The ticket states that the attendant believed I was "PARKED IN A PERMIT BAY WITHOUT DISPLAYING A VALID PERMIT". Clearly, as this happened on a saturday, I don't want to pay the £100 fine, nor do I want to pay the "reduced" £50 charge for paying within 14 days. if you dispute the charge under no circumstances pay it now Can anyone help me out with the correct (i.e. best) way to go about this? Do I have to wait until after 28 days has elapsed and they send me out the "NOTICE TO OWNER" and then put my case to "The Parking Shop" in writing (including the photos I took with my mobile phone"? Is there nothing I can or should do in the meantime? write to either (a) chief exec of the council (b) parking manager at the town hall. Do not write to the contractor that issued the ticket; the parking appeals people can't help you, yet, either. keep copies of your correspondence and their reply. take a picture of the sign, and the position of the vehicle. this might come in handy if you need to escalate the matter to an appeal. feel free to claim costs for wasted time raising the appeal and taking the pictures. keep the sum reasonable. be very polite -- these people are used to receiving a torrent of abuse from the public -- but firm, it works wonders. -- u n d e r a c h i e v e r |
Parking ticket - advice, please?
And another thing - the sticky strip that I guess is supposed to be
used by the Parking Attendant to stick the thing to my windscreen wasn't removed - it's semi transparent and I can read through it "Officer please remove this tape". I don't s'pose for a minute this makes any difference whatsoever but I'd look a right plonker if it turned out to be some devastating legal loophole! Cheers folks, John |
Parking ticket - advice, please?
"Mike Harrison" wrote in message
... On 4 Aug 2003 23:25:12 GMT, u n d e r a c h i e v e r wrote: feel free to claim costs for wasted time raising the appeal and taking the pictures. keep the sum reasonable. Is there any realistic chance of getting costs awarded though ? Not in this case. Robin |
Parking ticket - advice, please?
Mike Harrison writes
feel free to claim costs for wasted time raising the appeal and taking the pictures. keep the sum reasonable. Is there any realistic chance of getting costs awarded though ? Unlikely. The time and effort taken to make a phone call or write a letter to the issuing authority will be less than the time and effort to commence proceedings. -- Dave |
Parking ticket - advice, please?
"Cal Nihoni" wrote in message
... Steve Naïve wrote: (AOL's down again...) wrote in om: And another thing - the sticky strip that I guess is supposed to be used by the Parking Attendant to stick the thing to my windscreen wasn't removed - it's semi transparent and I can read through it "Officer please remove this tape". I don't s'pose for a minute this makes any difference whatsoever but I'd look a right plonker if it turned out to be some devastating legal loophole! To be valid the ticket must be either handed to the driver or fixed to the vehicle. However, I suppose you must argue whether to place it under the wiper was sufficient to 'fix' it to the vehicle. Around Hammersmith Broadway there are signs on the lampposts stating: "Parking Restrictions Enforced By Camera. Motorists committing parking offences will receive a ticket by post" I have always assumed these to be an empty and unenforceable threat. No, Hammersmith are piloting a scheme where parking contraventions detected by CCTV are enforced by sending the PCN to the registered keeper. Also, there are currently six boroughs enforcing bus lane regulations using CCTV cameras (London Boroughs of Newham, Croydon, Hammersmith and Fulham, Ealing, Wandsworth and Southwark). In addition, applications from the Corporation of London and the London Borough of Lambeth have been approved and it is hoped that both boroughs will commence enforcement in the near future. The London Local Authorities Act 1996 gave the London boroughs powers to use CCTV cameras to enforce bus lane regulations. The London Local Authorities Act 2000 gave the London boroughs powers to enforce parking contraventions using CCTV cameras. Robin |
Parking ticket - advice, please?
"Robin Cox" wrote the following in:
Also, there are currently six boroughs enforcing bus lane regulations using CCTV cameras (London Boroughs of Newham, Croydon, Hammersmith and Fulham, Ealing, Wandsworth and Southwark). What about Tower Hamlets? I've seen lots of signs there saying that bus lane enforcement cameras are in operation there. -- message by Robin May, founder of International Boyism "Would Inspector Sands please go to the Operations Room immediately." Unofficially immune to hangovers. |
Parking ticket - advice, please?
"Robin May" wrote in message
... "Robin Cox" wrote the following in: Also, there are currently six boroughs enforcing bus lane regulations using CCTV cameras (London Boroughs of Newham, Croydon, Hammersmith and Fulham, Ealing, Wandsworth and Southwark). What about Tower Hamlets? I've seen lots of signs there saying that bus lane enforcement cameras are in operation there. Sorry, my information was out of date. Current information from the ALG-TEC website: ===== CCTV enforcement of bus lane regulations 4. There are currently seven boroughs enforcing bus lane regulations using CCTV cameras (London Boroughs of Newham, Croydon, Hammersmith and Fulham, Ealing, Wandsworth Southwark and Camden). In addition, applications from the Corporation of London and the London Boroughs of Lambeth, Richmond, Harrow, Enfield, Merton, Bexley, Haringey, Tower Hamlets, Waltham Forest, Bromley and Hillingdon to commence CCTV enforcement of bus lane regulations have been approved and it is hoped that these boroughs will commence enforcement in the near future. CCTV enforcement of parking regulations 5. CCTV camera enforcement of parking regulations commenced in August 2001 with a two borough demonstration project involving the London Boroughs of Newham and Croydon. Based on the success of the pilot project, it was agreed at the ALG TEC Executive Sub Committee on the 18 July 2002 (Item No 4), that the demonstration project be brought to a close and that other boroughs be invited to submit applications to the Committee to commence CCTV enforcement of parking regulations. Applications from the London Boroughs of Ealing, Hammersmith and Fulham, Southwark, Lambeth, Camden, Haringey, Merton, Enfield, Tower Hamlets, Richmond and Hillingdon to commence CCTV enforcement of parking regulations have been approved. 6. At present the London Boroughs of Newham, Croydon, Camden, Southwark and Hammersmith and Fulham have commenced CCTV enforcement of parking regulations. Application to commence CCTV enforcement from the London Borough of Wandsworth 7. An application to commence CCTV enforcement of parking regulations has been received from the London Borough of Wandsworth. Approval has already been given for the London Borough of Wandsworth to enforce bus lane regulations using CCTV cameras. The London Borough of Wandsworth is proposing to commence CCTV enforcement of parking regulations at three locations in the borough from the end of 1 September 2003. Members are recommended to approve the application from the London Borough of Wandsworth as it meets the criteria set down by the Committee. ===== Robin |
Parking ticket - advice, please?
On Tue, 5 Aug 2003 18:19:59 +0100, Dave
wrote: Mike Harrison writes feel free to claim costs for wasted time raising the appeal and taking the pictures. keep the sum reasonable. Is there any realistic chance of getting costs awarded though ? Unlikely. The time and effort taken to make a phone call or write a letter to the issuing authority will be less than the time and effort to commence proceedings. true, but the council may pay up anyway, especially if their is obvious negligence on their part. failing that, you ask for costs when/if your case goes to a parking appeal, or you can complain to the local gov. ombudsman. it is always in your interests to get the claim in for costs immediately, even if you don't bother following it through. -- u n d e r a c h i e v e r |
Parking ticket - advice, please?
u n d e r a c h i e v e r
writes Unlikely. The time and effort taken to make a phone call or write a letter to the issuing authority will be less than the time and effort to commence proceedings. true, but the council may pay up anyway, especially if their is obvious negligence on their part. failing that, you ask for costs when/if your case goes to a parking appeal, or you can complain to the local gov. ombudsman. it is always in your interests to get the claim in for costs immediately, even if you don't bother following it through. Yeah right. It's people like who you drive up the cost of council tax. Wanting compensation when a quick phone call will probably sort it all out. -- Dave |
Parking ticket - advice, please?
It's people like who you drive up the cost of council tax. Wanting compensation when a quick phone call will probably sort it all out. No - actually it is the di**head overzealous parking attendents who issued a PCN when (allegedly) one should not have been issued which causes shedload of extra admin for the council. |
Parking ticket - advice, please?
"u n d e r a c h i e v e r" wrote in message
news:slrnbjdic8.7l9.takeme2yourNOMORESPAMPLEASE@sc ratch.garylaw.net... On Tue, 5 Aug 2003 18:19:59 +0100, Dave wrote: Mike Harrison writes feel free to claim costs for wasted time raising the appeal and taking the pictures. keep the sum reasonable. Is there any realistic chance of getting costs awarded though ? Unlikely. The time and effort taken to make a phone call or write a letter to the issuing authority will be less than the time and effort to commence proceedings. true, but the council may pay up anyway, especially if their is obvious negligence on their part. I *very* much doubt it. failing that, you ask for costs when/if your case goes to a parking appeal, or you can complain to the local gov. ombudsman. Both of whom (adjudicator, ombudsman) will want to see evidence of the motorist's actual loss, and are unlikely to award costs if no actual loss has occurred. Robin |
Parking ticket - advice, please?
No Flipping writes
It's people like who you drive up the cost of council tax. Wanting compensation when a quick phone call will probably sort it all out. No - actually it is the di**head overzealous parking attendents who issued a PCN when (allegedly) one should not have been issued which causes shedload of extra admin for the council. And asking the council for compensation is going to help is it? -- Dave |
Parking ticket - advice, please?
On Mon, 11 Aug 2003 11:14:04 +0100, Dave wrote:
No Flipping writes It's people like who you drive up the cost of council tax. Wanting compensation when a quick phone call will probably sort it all out. No - actually it is the di**head overzealous parking attendents who issued a PCN when (allegedly) one should not have been issued which causes shedload of extra admin for the council. And asking the council for compensation is going to help is it? ....well it might make them take more care not to issue illegal tickets in future, so yes, it could. If everyone who received an illegal ticket took action for costs, it wouldn't take long for them to sort it out, saving money in the long term. |
Parking ticket - advice, please?
Mike Harrison writes
And asking the council for compensation is going to help is it? ...well it might make them take more care not to issue illegal tickets in future, so yes, it could. But the council don't issue the ticket directly. If everyone who received an illegal ticket took action for costs, it wouldn't take long for them to sort it out, saving money in the long term. ********. People will always make mistakes. Parking attendant mis-reads parking restriction plate as Mon-Sat instead of Mon-Fri; simple phone call or letter resolves problem. Are you going to sue for emotional distress as well? Wanting compensation for such things is, quite simply, pathetic. -- Dave |
Parking ticket - advice, please?
On Mon, 11 Aug 2003 12:51:49 +0100, Dave wrote:
Mike Harrison writes And asking the council for compensation is going to help is it? ...well it might make them take more care not to issue illegal tickets in future, so yes, it could. But the council don't issue the ticket directly. But they employ the people who do. If everyone who received an illegal ticket took action for costs, it wouldn't take long for them to sort it out, saving money in the long term. ********. People will always make mistakes. If they know they will get into trouble for issuing bad tickets, they will be more careful Parking attendant mis-reads parking restriction plate as Mon-Sat instead of Mon-Fri; simple phone call or letter resolves problem. Are you going to sue for emotional distress as well? Wanting compensation for such things is, quite simply, pathetic. IF a simple letter or call resolves it, I totally agree but there are no end of stories where councils do not act reasonably/competently and cause significant hassle and cost for the victim. At present they can issue truckloads of bad tickets in the knowledge that some will pay up anyway, and if they don't the worst outcome is that the ticket gets cancelled. If it has to go to the adjudictor and the appeal is upheld then it's usually because the council has failed in its duty to deal fairly & reasonably I think the system should be changed so that when a ticket is overturned by the adjudictor, the appellant should AUTOMATICALLY be awarded the amount of the fine as compensation (i.e. higher award if clamped, towed etc.) , and more at the discretion of the adjudicator if the council have acted unreasonably or incompetently. This policy would vastly reduce the abuses of the system by councils and their contractors. |
Parking ticket - advice, please?
Mike Harrison writes
I think the system should be changed so that when a ticket is overturned by the adjudictor, the appellant should AUTOMATICALLY be awarded the amount of the fine as compensation (i.e. higher award if clamped, towed etc.) , and more at the discretion of the adjudicator if the council have acted unreasonably or incompetently. Just so long as the system also means that anybody making a frivolous claim for compensation has to pay for the associated costs. -- Dave |
Parking ticket - advice, please?
On Mon, 11 Aug 2003 14:06:52 +0100, Mike Harrison
wrote: On Mon, 11 Aug 2003 12:51:49 +0100, Dave wrote: Mike Harrison writes And asking the council for compensation is going to help is it? ...well it might make them take more care not to issue illegal tickets in future, so yes, it could. But the council don't issue the ticket directly. But they employ the people who do. If everyone who received an illegal ticket took action for costs, it wouldn't take long for them to sort it out, saving money in the long term. ********. People will always make mistakes. If they know they will get into trouble for issuing bad tickets, they will be more careful Parking attendant mis-reads parking restriction plate as Mon-Sat instead of Mon-Fri; simple phone call or letter resolves problem. Are you going to sue for emotional distress as well? Wanting compensation for such things is, quite simply, pathetic. IF a simple letter or call resolves it, I totally agree but there are no end of stories where councils do not act reasonably/competently and cause significant hassle and cost for the victim. At present they can issue truckloads of bad tickets in the knowledge that some will pay up anyway, and if they don't the worst outcome is that the ticket gets cancelled. If it has to go to the adjudictor and the appeal is upheld then it's usually because the council has failed in its duty to deal fairly & reasonably I think the system should be changed so that when a ticket is overturned by the adjudictor, the appellant should AUTOMATICALLY be awarded the amount of the fine as compensation (i.e. higher award if clamped, towed etc.) , and more at the discretion of the adjudicator if the council have acted unreasonably or incompetently. This policy would vastly reduce the abuses of the system by councils and their contractors. If the council hires contractors to do this work then any compensation paid out by the council is a direct result of failure on the part of the contractor. The councils should simply charge the ticketing contractors penalties for each wrongfully issued ticket. That would soon put a stop to the over zealous ticket issuer. Contractor performance penalties have many many precidents in the UK so setting this up shouldn't be too difficult. Andrew |
Parking ticket - advice, please?
On Mon, 11 Aug 2003 00:00:04 +0100, Dave
wrote: true, but the council may pay up anyway, especially if their is obvious negligence on their part. failing that, you ask for costs when/if your case goes to a parking appeal, or you can complain to the local gov. ombudsman. it is always in your interests to get the claim in for costs immediately, even if you don't bother following it through. Yeah right. It's people like who you drive up the cost of council tax. Wanting compensation when a quick phone call will probably sort it all out. what fantasy London are you living in? no council ever cancels parking tickets on the basis of a phone call (strangely, they are delighted to take your money this way). some, unfortunately, can't be arsed to check even the most basic facts about whether or not a ticket could possibily have been issue in the alledged circumstances, even when you do write in. They hold out for the NtO stage when the stakes, for the motorist, are higher, in the hope of getting paid anyway if they require the motorist to run around gathering evidence of a non-existant offence they should be prepared to compensate when it is demonstrated they were in the wrong. as others have pointed out, this should be recoverable from the errant contractor. -- u n d e r a c h i e v e r |
Parking ticket - advice, please?
u n d e r a c h i e v e r
writes It's people like who you drive up the cost of council tax. Wanting compensation when a quick phone call will probably sort it all out. what fantasy London are you living in? One where I have had a couple of parking tickets revoked by making a simple phone call or writing a short letter. Both of which took up less time than my contributions to this thread. -- Dave |
Parking ticket - advice, please?
On Wed, 13 Aug 2003 15:28:13 +0100, Dave
wrote: u n d e r a c h i e v e r writes It's people like who you drive up the cost of council tax. Wanting compensation when a quick phone call will probably sort it all out. what fantasy London are you living in? One where I have had a couple of parking tickets revoked by making a simple phone call or writing a short letter. Both of which took up less time than my contributions to this thread. i am astonished, and stand corrected. my local authority demands something in writing in all circumstances. i understood this to be custom and practice across London. -- u n d e r a c h i e v e r |
Parking ticket - advice, please?
absolutely. i wasn't suggesting that someone invent costs just to try
and claim them back. My mum with her blue badge was given a Parking Ticket for having the front of her car just sticking out of the bay onto the yellows not blocking anything. To get it resolved, all that was needed was a stamp and a strongly worded letter. |
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