On Fri, 12 Jan 2007 09:28:58 -0000, Dave Hillam ]
wrote:

IME more visitors to London appear to have a mortal fear of getting on
a London bus. The main reasons I've been able to establish are a)
perceived as being far too slow and b) a fear of getting irretrievably
lost.

But I've known people new to London not to trust either, in one case
walking from Kings Cross to Knightsbridge and back...

I'm suprised a stranger could *find their way* from Kings Cross to
Knightsbridge and back!

--
Fig

Dave Hillam wrote:

IME more visitors to London appear to have a mortal fear of getting on
a London bus. The main reasons I've been able to establish are a)
perceived as being far too slow and b) a fear of getting irretrievably
lost.

Regarding point (b), the bus spider maps with an index do help
considerably so long as there is a direct bus from where you are to
where you want to go.

--
Phil Richards
London, UK
Home Page: http://www.philrichards1.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

Dave Hillam wrote:
IME more visitors to London appear to have a mortal fear of getting on
a London bus. The main reasons I've been able to establish are a)
perceived as being far too slow and b) a fear of getting irretrievably
lost.

I'm a Londoner and have no problem using buses here - but if I'm in a
strange city I'll take the metro or a tram by preference. Something
psychlogical to do with the fact that metro or tram services can't
deviate from their tracks and (usually!) come back exactly the same way
they went, point (b) in Dave's post.

On Fri, 12 Jan 2007 09:28:58 +0000, Dave Hillam wrote:

IME more visitors to London appear to have a mortal fear of getting on
a London bus. The main reasons I've been able to establish are a)
perceived as being far too slow

It's in the guidebooks, so that's no surprise.

And route 15 really was slow.

and b) a fear of getting irretrievably lost.

What type of bus information is available to visitors?

--
jhk

Dave Hillam wrote:

IME more visitors to London appear to have a mortal fear of getting on
a London bus. The main reasons I've been able to establish are a)
perceived as being far too slow and b) a fear of getting irretrievably
lost.

Mainly the latter, I'd think, and partly due to lousy passenger
information. The GPS-based RTPI project will certainly help here if it
is promoted enough.

Neil

Ian Jelf wrote:

Non-Londoners will often go to extreme lengths to avoid the Tube. In
my experience, most prefer taxis, even where a simple bus transfer (or
sometimes even a walk, depending on luggage, would suffice.

Interesting - and I guess you probably know best by your job - but my
experience is that people will use the Tube as it's relatively easy to
understand - indeed, the geographical knowledge of London by a lot of
people I know is largely based (inaccurately, of course) on the Tube
map.

Neil

In message . com, Neil
Williams writes
Ian Jelf wrote:

Non-Londoners will often go to extreme lengths to avoid the Tube. In
my experience, most prefer taxis, even where a simple bus transfer (or
sometimes even a walk, depending on luggage, would suffice.

Interesting - and I guess you probably know best by your job - but my
experience is that people will use the Tube as it's relatively easy to
understand -
Oh, absolutely.

The main reason that people have for not using the Tube in my experience
is fear of actually being in enclosed spaces underground.
(Interestingly, I've never had anyone cite fear of terrorism as a reason
for avoiding it.)

indeed, the geographical knowledge of London by a lot of
people I know is largely based (inaccurately, of course) on the Tube
map.
Yes and when they *do* use it, they usually comment on how easy it is to
understand for that reason.

During one of the anti-war demonstrations last year, my coach was unable
to get back to a pickup near Parliament Square and I took a group of
about 15 back to the Tower Thistle hotel on the District Line [1].
They were an elderly group who wouldn't have dreamed of doing so "on
their own". They actually loved it and to my amusement later told
other people in the group that it was one of the highlights of their
weekend in London!


[1] I was going to say "Tube" but someone would have come along
to.......well, you know!

Neil


--
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

Ian Jelf wrote:

Non-Londoners will often go to extreme lengths to avoid the Tube. In
my experience, most prefer taxis, even where a simple bus transfer (or
sometimes even a walk, depending on luggage, would suffice.

By the same token, non-Londoners often go to extreme lengths to use
the Tube, even where a simple bus journey (or sometimes even a walk)
would not only suffice, but be considerably quicker!

--
Stevie D
\\\\\ ///// Bringing dating agencies to the
\\\\\\\__X__/////// common hedgehog since 2001 - "HedgeHugs"
___\\\\\\\'/ \'///////_____________________________________________

By the same token, non-Londoners often go to extreme lengths to use
the Tube, even where a simple bus journey (or sometimes even a walk)
would not only suffice, but be considerably quicker!

One thing I don't understand, and which might be a reason for this, is
that while they do excellent announcements on the Tube, DLR etc., there
is no passenger information at all on the buses. When I'm not sure and
ask the driver or other passengers they are usually quite helpful. But
of course if there where some information it would make visitors feel
more sure not to get lost.

Was it ever considered to do announcements on the bus? Is there any
special reason for not doing it?

Thanks
Martin

"Harry G" wrote:

That's correct: in the 1990s there was a pair of circular services,
Stationlink SL1/2 (clockwise/anti), although there had been something
prior to that as well which failed (and ISTR a night-time service in
the early 1980s). These were pretty infrequent and because they served
virtually all stations could be terribly slow - it might take a couple
of hours from arriving at one terminal before you reached your
cross-London terminal. I think they disappeared around 4-5 years ago.

The need to create a robust timetable, over a relatively long route, at a
low frequency, meant an awful lot of slack was built into the timings. On
the 705 (the final incarnation of Stationlink), it was common to dwell at
Waterloo *and* London Bridge for up to ten minutes. Thus, these services
were largely shunned by 'ordinary Londoners'.

They were also fairly poorly publicised. During the last year of the 705, I
was working in Victoria and commuting into and out of Fenchurch Street. On a
Tube strike day (total shutdown), when 'normal' buses were jam packed,
fights breaking out etc, I was able to board the 705 at Victoria Station
with no difficulty, and had the company of about four other people on the
way to Fenchurch St via Waterloo, London Bridge etc.

Route 205 is a legacy of the Stationlink service, and there was also a
705 which seems to have withdrawn. Apart from the slow journey times,
taxi options and infrequency, the accessibility of all London buses to
the groups mentioned above probably put the final nail in the coffin of
dedicated Stationlink services or similar.

The Jubilee Line extension also provided a Tube alternative on the
Waterloo - London Bridge stretch.

Chris