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Different approach to smart card travel
The Dutch version of Oyster (OV-chip) is being pushed harder and
harder with the plan to have it as the only way to pay by 2009. Just heard it'll work on a 11cent/km basis, obliterating the current zone scheme which obviously will affect people differently depending on where they start/finish in the zones (zones being like cellphone ones, not ringed like London's Westend centric one). The card to push will be the "autoreload" version where you never need to add dosh manually to it ever again. Which, as an interviewee said, makes price rises easier! Interesting that they charge on distance which is the opposite to the expanded NR component of Oyster in S. London where zoning will be used. My regret is that NL stations will become closed with gated access. I prefer the honour system (can't trust those Amsterdammers but surely the rest are honest!). -- Old anti-spam address cmylod at despammed dot com appears broke So back to cmylod at bigfoot dot com |
Different approach to smart card travel
On Thu, 01 Feb 2007 09:27:43 -0000, Colum Mylod
wrote: My regret is that NL stations will become closed with gated access. I prefer the honour system (can't trust those Amsterdammers but surely the rest are honest!). Dunno, you've got to keep yer eye on those Limburgers too. ;-D -- Fig |
Different approach to smart card travel
All the OV chipcard stuff so far has been a big disaster. They're now
replacing the gates in Rotterdam for a SECOND time, and the system isn't even working yet. The gates are incredibly slow, I wonder why they don't just use the same type as in London or another system's that's already proved itself. Having to touch out in buses and trams seems like a lot of effort and will probably lead to larger dwell times. I was hoping this would give you the option to just get on a train, switch to a metro, and only pay a combined fair for both of them. But instead it still works with separate journeys for every type of transport. Oh well, I know I'm sounding very negative here, but the Dutch haven't been able to deliver on transport projects (HSL-Zuid, Betuweroute etc.) lately. |
Different approach to smart card travel
sweek wrote:
The gates are incredibly slow, I wonder why they don't just use the same type as in London or another system's that's already proved itself. Maybe they are--the gates at King's Cross St. Pancras Underground that is. -- Michael Hoffman |
Different approach to smart card travel
On Feb 1, 1:25 pm, "sweek" wrote:
Having to touch out in buses and trams seems like a lot of effort and will probably lead to larger dwell times. Doesn't in Singapore. Indeed, I'd recommend it as a good solution for a UK ITSO smartcard, because it would allow a smartcard to be implemented with no fare structure change at all, which would be rather useful where there are a multitude of private bus companies with different fare levels. I was hoping this would give you the option to just get on a train, switch to a metro, and only pay a combined fair for both of them. But instead it still works with separate journeys for every type of transport. Does it charge two "base tariffs" for two journeys, or is there an interchange discount? If it charges two "base tariffs" it's far worse than the Strippenkaart, which allows unlimited free changes of vehicle/ mode. Oh well, I know I'm sounding very negative here, but the Dutch haven't been able to deliver on transport projects (HSL-Zuid, Betuweroute etc.) lately. And Randstadrail, which has been an unmitigated, British-style disaster. Given that the classic tram rail and the Alstom LRVs appear to be totally incompatible (two more derailments on the 3 route last week, not on steeply-superelevated track unlike previous problems) I fail to see how it can ever run. Neil |
Different approach to smart card travel
I think it does charge two base fares, and you can only use a
strippenkaart on trains within Amsterdam. I don't think you're allowed to in any other city. And yes, Randstadrail, Utrechtboog, Veolia... I don't know what it is that's been going so awful lately. |
Different approach to smart card travel
On 1 Feb, 09:27, Colum Mylod wrote:
The Dutch version of Oyster (OV-chip) is being pushed harder and harder with the plan to have it as the only way to pay by 2009. Just heard it'll work on a 11cent/km basis, obliterating the current zone scheme which obviously will affect people differently depending on where they start/finish in the zones (zones being like cellphone ones, not ringed like London's Westend centric one). The card to push will be the "autoreload" version where you never need to add dosh manually to it ever again. Which, as an interviewee said, makes price rises easier! Interesting that they charge on distance which is the opposite to the expanded NR component of Oyster in S. London where zoning will be used. My regret is that NL stations will become closed with gated access. I prefer the honour system (can't trust those Amsterdammers but surely the rest are honest!). All stations? That's quite a commitment. In the UK, gates need to have human oversight for Heath and Safety rules. This doesn't seem to be the case in Paris which obviously has a different set of rules. But gating the whole NL network would be incredibly expensive. |
Different approach to smart card travel
alexterrell wrote:
On 1 Feb, 09:27, Colum Mylod wrote: [...] My regret is that NL stations will become closed with gated access. I prefer the honour system (can't trust those Amsterdammers but surely the rest are honest!). All stations? That's quite a commitment. In the UK, gates need to have human oversight for Heath and Safety rules. This doesn't seem to be the case in Paris which obviously has a different set of rules. If you mean the Métro in Paris, they don't have ticket gates on the exits, so there is no need to have a human presence to ensure that people can get out of a station. But you may well be right about health & safety rules being less stringent in France. -- Richard J. (to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address) |
Different approach to smart card travel
On Feb 1, 10:27 am, Colum Mylod wrote:
My regret is that NL stations will become closed with gated access. I prefer the honour system (can't trust those Amsterdammers but surely the rest are honest!). Most of them are. I haven't ever seen a PF issued during a tram grip (in Den Haag where the honour system remains in place) that I can think of. I have seen one or two invalid tickets presented that appeared to be down to a genuine mistake (e.g. "timed out" - a Strippenkaart stamp only lasts an hour or so), but the solution has been for the inspector to stamp the ticket correctly and leave it at that. I wonder, by comparison, what fare-dodging rates on the London bendy buses are. Neil |
Different approach to smart card travel
On the other hand, I get the feeling about 80% of the people who don't
have an OV-Student card do faredodge. |
Different approach to smart card travel
On 2 Feb 2007 03:37:53 -0800, "Neil Williams"
wrote: .... I wonder, by comparison, what fare-dodging rates on the London bendy buses are. Plenty on London bendies enter by middle and rear doors without bothering to touch in or touch anything. I've had a weekly on an Oyster, boarded one 18, found the validators stuck on red and not been able to push to the front to get working ones. However one other NL issue that sticks: why don't train kiosks sell Strippenkaarts? Integrated public transport, unintegrated tickets. And don't start me on the chip-bloody-knip. -- Old anti-spam address cmylod at despammed dot com appears broke So back to cmylod at bigfoot dot com |
Different approach to smart card travel
In message , Colum Mylod
writes I wonder, by comparison, what fare-dodging rates on the London bendy buses are. Plenty on London bendies enter by middle and rear doors without bothering to touch in or touch anything. I have a pass - I'm not required to, so have many others. Bendies are designed to be boarded through all doors. I've had a weekly on an Oyster, boarded one 18, found the validators stuck on red and not been able to push to the front to get working ones. Weekly passes are not required to validate so why bother? -- Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building. You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK (please use the reply to address for email) |
Different approach to smart card travel
On Feb 2, 11:49 am, "sweek" wrote:
On the other hand, I get the feeling about 80% of the people who don't have an OV-Student card do faredodge. I certainly do not have that impression, at least in Den Haag. I'd guess the figure is around 20% on trams, and somewhere around zero on buses as you're checked and stamped on boarding. Neil |
Different approach to smart card travel
On Feb 2, 3:03 pm, Colum Mylod wrote:
However one other NL issue that sticks: why don't train kiosks sell Strippenkaarts? Integrated public transport, unintegrated tickets. This is a bugbear - but at every station that's big enough to have a ticket office there's usually a Kiosk (drinks, snacks etc), all of which *do* sell Strippenkaarten. And don't start me on the chip-bloody-knip. It's a good idea that could really do with being rolled out throughout Europe. Until it is, however, I find it quite annoying that anywhere is allowed to *only* accept it. Neil |
Different approach to smart card travel
I'm sorry, I forgot to add "in Rotterdam" to that post. In Rotterdam
no one really seems to bother with tickets on the metro. |
Different approach to smart card travel
Does the Paris Metro or transport in the metropolitan area have any
Oyster-type system or are they still operating on those tiny strips with the magnetic strip? I visited Paris in 2000 and it appeared then that they were in the process of, or preparing to, set up such a system. "Richard J." wrote in message k... alexterrell wrote: On 1 Feb, 09:27, Colum Mylod wrote: [...] If you mean the Métro in Paris, they don't have ticket gates on the exits, so there is no need to have a human presence to ensure that people can get out of a station. But you may well be right about health & safety rules being less stringent in France. -- Richard J. (to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address) |
Different approach to smart card travel
On Fri, 02 Feb 2007 22:12:09 GMT, wrote:
"Richard J." wrote in message . uk... alexterrell wrote: On 1 Feb, 09:27, Colum Mylod wrote: [...] If you mean the Métro in Paris, they don't have ticket gates on the exits, so there is no need to have a human presence to ensure that people can get out of a station. But you may well be right about health & safety rules being less stringent in France. -- Richard J. (to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address) Does the Paris Metro or transport in the metropolitan area have any Oyster-type system or are they still operating on those tiny strips with the magnetic strip? I visited Paris in 2000 and it appeared then that they were in the process of, or preparing to, set up such a system. RATP have been experimenting with Smartcards for almost as long as LT. They do now have Smartcards working and installed following an initial bus and Metro trial. IIRC they were converting people who held annual tickets to the new format and then working their way on to other season ticket (Carte Orange) holders. From a quick glance it would seem they have the system installed in zones 1 and 2 (basically the Metro and core bus network) and are working out from there. They call it "Le Passe Navigo" - see www.ratp.fr and then click on "le passe navigo" under the Le Club RATP listing. Magnetic tickets remain in use for Metro and RER / SNCF (Transilien) services. -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
Different approach to smart card travel
On 1 Feb 2007 05:40:40 -0800, "Neil Williams"
wrote: On Feb 1, 1:25 pm, "sweek" wrote: Having to touch out in buses and trams seems like a lot of effort and will probably lead to larger dwell times. Doesn't in Singapore. Indeed, I'd recommend it as a good solution for a UK ITSO smartcard, because it would allow a smartcard to be implemented with no fare structure change at all, which would be rather useful where there are a multitude of private bus companies with different fare levels. I was genuinely surprised how well exit validation on bus worked in Singapore when I was there a few weeks ago. It didn't seem to cause any undue delay over a range of vehicle types that I observed. I used the system myself and got used to it quite quickly. I have to say I have my doubts as to how well it work in our less ordered, less obedient society and with our preponderance towards to one door buses - everything in Singapore was dual door. I was hoping this would give you the option to just get on a train, switch to a metro, and only pay a combined fair for both of them. But instead it still works with separate journeys for every type of transport. Does it charge two "base tariffs" for two journeys, or is there an interchange discount? If it charges two "base tariffs" it's far worse than the Strippenkaart, which allows unlimited free changes of vehicle/ mode. Oh well, I know I'm sounding very negative here, but the Dutch haven't been able to deliver on transport projects (HSL-Zuid, Betuweroute etc.) lately. And Randstadrail, which has been an unmitigated, British-style disaster. Given that the classic tram rail and the Alstom LRVs appear to be totally incompatible (two more derailments on the 3 route last week, not on steeply-superelevated track unlike previous problems) I fail to see how it can ever run. This does seem to be a surprising "disaster" for Dutch public transport. It is a long time since I've been to the Netherlands so have lost touch with how the various main city networks are faring. I have read a little about Randstadrail and know broadly what it was trying to achieve. What has the local reaction been like to the problems that have arisen? Shock, outrage, resignation, something altogether more Dutch? -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
Different approach to smart card travel
On Fri, 02 Feb 2007 22:12:09 GMT, wrote:
Does the Paris Metro or transport in the metropolitan area have any Oyster-type system or are they still operating on those tiny strips with the magnetic strip? I still occasionally see the latter of those discarded on pavements from time to time. In London. |
Different approach to smart card travel
Paul Corfield wrote:
On Fri, 02 Feb 2007 22:12:09 GMT, wrote: "Richard J." wrote in message k... alexterrell wrote: On 1 Feb, 09:27, Colum Mylod wrote: [...] If you mean the Métro in Paris, they don't have ticket gates on the exits, so there is no need to have a human presence to ensure that people can get out of a station. But you may well be right about health & safety rules being less stringent in France. -- Richard J. (to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address) Does the Paris Metro or transport in the metropolitan area have any Oyster-type system or are they still operating on those tiny strips with the magnetic strip? I visited Paris in 2000 and it appeared then that they were in the process of, or preparing to, set up such a system. RATP have been experimenting with Smartcards for almost as long as LT. They do now have Smartcards working and installed following an initial bus and Metro trial. IIRC they were converting people who held annual tickets to the new format and then working their way on to other season ticket (Carte Orange) holders. From a quick glance it would seem they have the system installed in zones 1 and 2 (basically the Metro and core bus network) and are working out from there. They call it "Le Passe Navigo" - see www.ratp.fr and then click on "le passe navigo" under the Le Club RATP listing. Navigo is now in operation for all season tickets including the weekly Carte Orange, similar to a 7-day Travelcard. The RATP are encouraging all Carte Orange holders to convert to Navigo by, for example, having teams of people in major interchange stations offering to convert paper tickets to Navigo in 1 minute. (I'm not absolutely sure whether the Navigo is issued on the spot or posted to the holder's address. The early ones took 3 weeks to arrive through the post.) The advantage to RATP is that Navigo can be renewed on a ticket machine, just like loading a new Travelcard season on to Oyster. The cards themselves have an integral ID photo, like a UK driving licence, instead of a separate photo card like the paper Carte Orange. Ticket gates all have a large circular purple disc on them where the Navigo is read, ditto the buses. Many stations have one gate dedicated to Navigo, i.e. without a paper ticket slot. You don't actually need to "touch in" as it will read the card if you hold it up to about 1 cm above the disc. There's no sign of any PAYG facility being implemented on Navigo yet, so they are not much use to short-stay tourists. Magnetic tickets remain in use for Metro and RER / SNCF (Transilien) services. The other development in Paris is that in Métro stations they have started to phase out the selling of tickets other than from the machines. Only a few stations so far, but I think it will spread across the network. There is still an RATP person behind the window, but he's there to offer advice and information, not to sell tickets. Tickets can still be bought over the counter at the local 'tabac' though. -- Richard J. (to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address) |
Different approach to smart card travel
This does seem to be a surprising "disaster" for Dutch public transport.
It is a long time since I've been to the Netherlands so have lost touch with how the various main city networks are faring. I have read a little about Randstadrail and know broadly what it was trying to achieve. What has the local reaction been like to the problems that have arisen? Shock, outrage, resignation, something altogether more Dutch? The systems are quite okay, really. I don't think you could say anything is really getting worse. But the improvements that had been planned have all been delivered late, went overbudget and have had introductory problems. This is true the five big projects; Randstadrail (still not ready, detrainments have put the whole thing to a halt), HSL-Zuid (still not ready, overbudget), Betuweroute (still not ready, overbudget) and the North-South line in Amsterdam (overbudget, due date has already been set back) and the OV-Chipkaart (as described above, going to be introduced late as well). I'm sure we'll see the actual improvements in the end, but these things aren't making railways any more popular with the general public, and I can't see it helping with upcoming projects. The Hanzelijn, although only in its planning stages, has secured its money and it looks like that will be going well. So far. On a brighter note, the completely new timetable that was introduced in December has actually been a succes, and not the big disaster that many had thought it would be. (I don't live there anymore now, but I try and keep up to date.:) |
Different approach to smart card travel
On Feb 3, 1:55 am, "sweek" wrote:
On a brighter note, the completely new timetable that was introduced in December has actually been a succes, and not the big disaster that many had thought it would be. It's causing a lot of problems at Schiphol, because they've tried an experiment whereby instead of most trains being timetabled to a specific platform, they're timetabled (almost Czech-style) to any platform on a specific island. The trouble with that is that the flap- board PIS can't cope with this properly. To handle it large LCD screens have been installed in addition, but these show only things like "1030 Stoptrein Den Haag HS". An arrow is added when it's determined which side it's going to be. However, because these boards don't show intermediate stops, and because most trains run across Amsterdam, it is causing a *lot* of confusion with tourists at Schiphol. Given that I don't think I've ever seen both sides of the same island occupied at Schiphol (interchange between Stoptreinen and Sneltreinen is timetabled to happen at Hoofdorp instead), I really don't understand why it was done. As to the Dutch reaction to the failures like Randstadrail (which, as I said, I don't know how it'll ever run without major mods to the stock) I think it's a slightly cynical resignation, but I do get the impression that patience may be running out, and that the car may be on the up. For such a public-transport-oriented country that's quite sad. Neil |
Different approach to smart card travel
On Feb 2, 10:09 pm, "sweek" wrote:
I'm sorry, I forgot to add "in Rotterdam" to that post. In Rotterdam no one really seems to bother with tickets on the metro. Fair enough - my experience is that in Den Haag people normally do pay their way. Neil |
Different approach to smart card travel
As do I.
"James Farrar" wrote in message ... On Fri, 02 Feb 2007 22:12:09 GMT, wrote: Does the Paris Metro or transport in the metropolitan area have any Oyster-type system or are they still operating on those tiny strips with the magnetic strip? I still occasionally see the latter of those discarded on pavements from time to time. In London. |
Different approach to smart card travel
They were all over the place in Paris when I was last there.
"James Farrar" wrote in message ... On Fri, 02 Feb 2007 22:12:09 GMT, wrote: Does the Paris Metro or transport in the metropolitan area have any Oyster-type system or are they still operating on those tiny strips with the magnetic strip? I still occasionally see the latter of those discarded on pavements from time to time. In London. |
Different approach to smart card travel
"Richard J." wrote in message
k... You don't actually need to "touch in" as it will read the card if you hold it up to about 1 cm above the disc. Same here in London. The other development in Paris is that in Métro stations they have started to phase out the selling of tickets other than from the machines. Only a few stations so far, but I think it will spread across the network. There is still an RATP person behind the window, but he's there to offer advice and information, not to sell tickets. Tickets can still be bought over the counter at the local 'tabac' though. Holland's national rail is really stressing that passengers should purchase tickets from machines, I have heard. It is still possible to buy a ticket from somebody behind a window, but it incurs a surcharge of 50 cents, I also heard. |
Different approach to smart card travel
On Feb 3, 10:19 am, wrote:
It is still possible to buy a ticket from somebody behind a window, but it incurs a surcharge of 50 cents, I also heard. Correct, but (and this is the really stupid bit) the machines don't accept notes, nor credit cards (except, for some reason I fail to understand, at Schiphol), which for most tourists makes this a right pain and effectively a tourist tax. Neil |
Different approach to smart card travel
I thought that I saw the machines with facilities to take notes or cards.
"Neil Williams" wrote in message oups.com... On Feb 3, 10:19 am, wrote: Correct, but (and this is the really stupid bit) the machines don't accept notes, nor credit cards (except, for some reason I fail to understand, at Schiphol), which for most tourists makes this a right pain and effectively a tourist tax. Neil |
Different approach to smart card travel
It's coins or debit cards only, which is absolutely stupid.
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Different approach to smart card travel
On Feb 3, 5:54 pm, "sweek" wrote:
It's coins or debit cards only, which is absolutely stupid. Not only that, but *Maestro* debit cards only, which rules out about 50% of UK cards as about half the UK banks issue Visa debit cards, which are generally processed as if they were a credit card for international stuff. I've also heard that (because Switch used to be a UK-only standard) the success rate for UK cards is not exactly 100% even if the Maestro logo is displayed. Compared with this, Uncle Ken's Tube tourist tax isn't half as bad, as at least anyone can put in a bit of effort and get an Oyster card to avoid it. (The trick I use to avoid it is to buy all the tickets I think I'm going to need in one go from the machines at Schiphol, because they do take credit cards and will issue undated tickets including to/from other stations). Neil |
Different approach to smart card travel
"Neil Williams" wrote in news:1170545651.563447.164620
@j27g2000cwj.googlegroups.com: SNIP Compared with this, Uncle Ken's Tube tourist tax isn't half as bad, as at least anyone can put in a bit of effort and get an Oyster card to avoid it. (The trick I use to avoid it is to buy all the tickets I think I'm going to need in one go from the machines at Schiphol, because they do take credit cards and will issue undated tickets including to/from other stations). Last time I was in Schipol, my mate's Electron Visa wouldn't work in the machines for the train travel tickets to Amsterdam, and I had to buy his and mine on my Switch Maestro. |
Different approach to smart card travel
On Feb 3, 11:37 pm, "Tristán White"
wrote: Last time I was in Schipol, my mate's Electron Visa wouldn't work in the machines for the train travel tickets to Amsterdam, and I had to buy his and mine on my Switch Maestro. I forgot about Electron - these aren't widely accepted for a lot of things due to the requirement for online authorisation. ISTR the UK TOCs don't accept them either. Neil |
Different approach to smart card travel
On 3 Feb 2007 15:34:11 -0800, "Neil Williams"
wrote: On Feb 3, 5:54 pm, "sweek" wrote: It's coins or debit cards only, which is absolutely stupid. Not only that, but *Maestro* debit cards only, which rules out about 50% of UK cards as about half the UK banks issue Visa debit cards, which are generally processed as if they were a credit card for international stuff. They also take those Chipknip cards, but for peeps with no local bank a/c coupled to a card this means a 6% surcharge if using prepaid chipknip (53 euro for a 50 euro card time-limited). Prepaid is necessary for foreign tourists and oiks like me having to eat in remote canteens. Fill up with coins for the NS machines or queue up to cough up the 50c surcharge. It's always been a stubborn country for credit cards - merchants never caught on to the benefits. (The trick I use to avoid it is to buy all the tickets I think I'm going to need in one go from the machines at Schiphol, because they do take credit cards and will issue undated tickets including to/from other stations). I'll be trying that tomorrow morning! I'm getting erratic failures on credit cards from those machines - get all the way through then rejected. -- Old anti-spam address cmylod at despammed dot com appears broke So back to cmylod at bigfoot dot com |
Different approach to smart card travel
On Feb 4, 10:30 pm, Colum Mylod wrote:
I'll be trying that tomorrow morning! I'm getting erratic failures on credit cards from those machines - get all the way through then rejected. Make sure you use the ones in the main ticket hall with a "proper" credit card reader rather than the ones in the baggage hall that don't. I have a less than 50% success rate with the latter, but a 100% success rate with the former - I suspect the latter don't read the strip properly, or have a dodgy ISDN connection for doing the authorisations - and if you're on KL 1558 from LCY I might see you there ;) Neil |
Different approach to smart card travel
On 4 Feb 2007 15:17:36 -0800, "Neil Williams"
wrote: On Feb 4, 10:30 pm, Colum Mylod wrote: I'll be trying that tomorrow morning! I'm getting erratic failures on credit cards from those machines - get all the way through then rejected. Make sure you use the ones in the main ticket hall with a "proper" credit card reader rather than the ones in the baggage hall that don't. I have a less than 50% success rate with the latter, but a 100% success rate with the former - I suspect the latter don't read the strip properly, or have a dodgy ISDN connection for doing the authorisations - and if you're on KL 1558 from LCY I might see you there ;) I used the baggage hall ones ("bags expected on the belt 08:58".. "bags on belt now"... pull the other one for 15 more mins, plenty of time to find the Zonder Datum button). As you said, card 1 rejected, card 2 accepted. Next time I'll use my Nectar first just to clean the slot! Max 3 tickets which is a bummer since I needed 2 singles for Mon and a return for more days. BD101 from LHR where "security" was backed up before Boots (an indication of queuing up before the main entry airside). Sigh. LHR is a shabby chaotic dump. Luckily departure gate was 16 and not the extra-secure 25a. For some reason the gods frown and we often get double screened, laptops out again. Shoes off appears to be new to T1? -- Old anti-spam address cmylod at despammed dot com appears broke So back to cmylod at bigfoot dot com |
Different approach to smart card travel
On Feb 6, 11:18 am, Colum Mylod wrote:
BD101 from LHR where "security" was backed up before Boots (an indication of queuing up before the main entry airside). Sigh. LHR is a shabby chaotic dump. Luckily departure gate was 16 and not the extra-secure 25a. For some reason the gods frown and we often get double screened, laptops out again. Shoes off appears to be new to T1? Dunno, I avoid LHR like the plague as it is, as you describe, a dump. Unless you live very near LHR, *all* the other options are better (LCY, LTN, STN, LGW less so but still better than LHR). Neil |
Different approach to smart card travel
On Feb 6, 1:04 pm, "Neil Williams" wrote:
Dunno, I avoid LHR like the plague as it is, as you describe, a dump. Unless you live very near LHR, *all* the other options are better (LCY, LTN, STN, LGW less so but still better than LHR). Notably, the queue to get through security at LTN is 10 minutes at most for the red-eyes (which it appears BD101 is), and that's the very worst I've ever seen it. LCY had a queue on the day after the farce in the summer, but since then it's back to straight through, especially now they have 3 machines in operation with the expanded screening area, though if I go through there it's normally nearer 8:30am. STN and LGW can be worse than LTN and LCY (notice the BAA influence here) but not, I'm told, as bad. Flying from City in the Fokker 50s (either VLM or KLM, not a lot to choose between them) is a real pleasure - like flying used to be, it could be said. Give it a go, though the downside is that punctuality can be a bit poor at times. Neil |
Different approach to smart card travel
Neil Williams wrote:
Flying from City in the Fokker 50s (either VLM or KLM, not a lot to choose between them) is a real pleasure - like flying used to be, it could be said. Give it a go, though the downside is that punctuality can be a bit poor at times. Neil I find this is best way to get to NL from London. It's usually very low in stress. The Fokkers are great fun to fly on. Like Neil said, punctuality can suffer though, and pray you don't land in Haarlem - or what feels like it, that runway is a LONG way from the terminal. KLM stick you on the stands and bus you into Arrivals, VLM have their own gate. It depends how far you want to walk! Back onto the NS ticketing fiasco, there's a change machine cunningly hidden in what's left of the booking office at Amsterdam Centraal. Last time I was there no-one was using it, prefering, instead to queue for the surcharged tickets. What would be really nice, and I can't ever see this happening, is reciprocal use of smrtcards across compatible networks. According to Wiki, TfL and GVB are using MIFARE cards. I just like the idea using one card where I can. Mark. |
Different approach to smart card travel
On 6 Feb 2007 04:04:50 -0800, "Neil Williams"
wrote: On Feb 6, 11:18 am, Colum Mylod wrote: BD101 from LHR where "security" was backed up before Boots (an indication of queuing up before the main entry airside). Sigh. LHR is a shabby chaotic dump. Luckily departure gate was 16 and not the extra-secure 25a. For some reason the gods frown and we often get double screened, laptops out again. Shoes off appears to be new to T1? Dunno, I avoid LHR like the plague as it is, as you describe, a dump. Unless you live very near LHR, *all* the other options are better (LCY, LTN, STN, LGW less so but still better than LHR). Assuming you *have* other (reasonable) options. |
Different approach to smart card travel
On Feb 7, 6:36 am, James Farrar wrote:
Assuming you *have* other (reasonable) options. The destination being discussed was Amsterdam, to which there are flights from *every* London airport. Plenty of other options. Conveniently, most destinations are also accessible *via* Amsterdam, though I'm led to believe the luggage handling isn't exactly optimal. Neil |
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